Heard on a Recent College Visit...

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Now, would a coach actually look a kid in the eye, with his parents sitting right there listening, and make this statement if there wasn't an element of truth to it?

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my kid loves the coach and campus

Nawp.

Go for it.

congrats,
the feelings about the school & coach you describe is called a "good fit"
let us know how it progresses

coaches will convey many things during recruiting -
opportunity to earn PT, etc - etc
it all comes down to the player (& parents) feeling confident that their performance will earn what the opportunity promised


"early decision is a 4-year decision but he seems fine with that"??

not sure what that means, sounds like he's headed for basic training (boot camp) -
make sure he's talking to the right recruiter



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quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:"early decision is a 4-year decision but he seems fine with that"??

The way I understand early decision, and I could be wrong, is that once he's accepted early, he's committed to the school for four years and would not be allowed to transfer if, say, there were playing time issues or the academics weren't quite what he wanted (academics are not going to be an issue at this school!). Does anyone out there know more about early decision?

I understand where you're coming from PopTime. The mention of playing time as a freshman and impact player really makes my son "perk up". BUT, the fact that you say that your son loves the campus AND the coach and that YOU say it's a great school should put your mind at ease...

I am in agreement with the others. Sounds like a good fit at this point.

Not trying to change your mind at all here but being a skeptic, I want to comment on two things the coach said (and many other coaches say too):

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The coach suggested early decision, basically to be sure my son was coming in so he can concentrate his recruiting efforts at some other positions and not worry about not having a solid catcher coming in.

Sounds good and does have some truth to it but it also says "We want to lock your son up so no one else can lure him away with a better offer."

The other thing he said is a lot more generic that we parents and players want to believe:

quote:

"We think that if you choose our school and baseball program that you have the unique opportunity to step in and make an immediate impact as a freshman..."

The words "think" and "opportunity" are used freely during recruiting talk but that is the way it is and the way it has to be. There will never be any etched in stone guarantees. It still sounds about as good as it can get and an early commitment can be a benefit to all if everything fits.
Fungo

re early decision:
I believe it's "binding" that you show up as a frosh & withdraw any apps to other schools
(kinda like an "academic NLI" for selective schools)

if academic, athletic, or discipline "stuff happens" after that, you're have the same options as students anywhere


the negative about "early decision" is like fungos mentioned, your inability to compare any other offers (aid) or opportunities


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He made it very clear that he wasn't guaranteeing playing time, just that the kid wasn't going to be wallowing around in the bullpen all season. He'd be playing, making an impact. I guess timing is everything.

Early decision is a good faith commitment to attend the school if admitted. There is nothing beyond your word and conscience to prevent you from breaking this commitment. Certainly, circumstances beyond your control that might cause you to break this commitment will not prevent your child from attending and playing baseball at a different college.

ED is used by many coaches to get commitments to schools that do not participate in the NLI program. It is believed by some people that borderline applicants to 'high tone' schools sponsored by an athletic coach have a better chance of admission by submitting an ED application.

ya got me wondering popT

E.D. response is finalized in December -

early period NLI signees are finalized in November -

is this not an NLI school (if no, forget the rest of the Q's)

if NLI yes, it would seem to mean coach has no communications with admisions, or is not confident your son will be admitted - which if an NLI is signed and you don't qualify for admission it's void anyway

but maybe I'm thinking too much

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Bee> It's NCAA DIII, so no NLI.

cool, go for it

he's basicly asking for the same commitment an NLI gives other schools - that seems quite fair

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Let me add another wrinkle. I know that ED response is December. This coach told us that when he gets a verbal response from admissions in the positive about a kid, based on his transcript, that they've NEVER gone back on their word to accept him. Especially if the coach acts as an advocate for the kid, which he has vowed to do with mine. So basically if we hear from the coach this week that admissions has given the go-ahead, then it's all just a formality from there as long as my kid keeps his grades up and his nose clean. Would YOU believe it?

POP Time

yes I would !!!!

you have a PM

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Would YOU believe it?

I guess why I'm asking is that my son wants to call off the whole very stressful, time consuming college search process if he hears this week or next (the coach's stated time frame) that he'll get in to this school if he applies. He's tired, we're tired, it would be nice to have it behind us. Opinions?

Poptime,

Some schools will offer assurance in writing with an informal acceptance pending completion of offical ED acceptance. You could ask for that from admissions. Otherwise, I would probably believe the coach.

the best place for stress is behind you

congrats

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For what it's worth, while watching a practice earlier this week at the school where my two sons play, I heard some players joking that it seemed like every one of them heard, at almost every school that recruited them, "we think you can make an immediate impact as a freshman". This phrase brought laughter from a whole bunch of guys. Sounds like it might be a "buzz phrase" at a lot of places.

This doesn't mean the coach wasn't sincere on the occasion that started this thread, but apparently it's not an uncommon phrase on the recruiting paths.

Could not tell if this is DIII or DI. That makes some difference in the thought process I think because there was no indication of aid or scholarship. I am guessing the school is a "reach" school academically.

ED makes the sr. year far less stressful. If your academics are borderline, then ED with coach support is definitely the way to go. If a reach school, coach support to admissions is indication of solid evaluation by the coach.

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"we think you can make an immediate impact as a freshman"

That certainly seems to be the phrase that they have said most often to my son as well... The hard part to decipher is: 1) Do they mean it? or 2) Are they just good recruiters aware of what players want to hear?

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"we think you can make an immediate impact as a freshman"

The phrase means the player will get the opportunity to earn playing time. If he does well initially, he will likely play more, as long as he is successful. It is better than hearing "we see you impacting in year 2 and beyond".

Little is given or guarrenteed in college baseball. A decent program has competition for nearly every posittion.

Poptime,
First of all, congratulations on the progress your son has been making in finding the right school and in developing his baseball options.
From what you have posted, the quality of the education potentially available to your son is extremely high.
On the baseball side, while I don't think coaches will look every recruit in the eye and make that type of comment, I do think it is used pretty frequently. How much to rely on it is largely dependent on how much you know about the coach and his program. With the DIII that our son attended, the Coach made similar type statements in every discussion. He went further and even explained what it meant in terms of position/progression/potential value to the team and how he expected summer league placement to work. While the amount of work our son put in can never be understated, the Coach followed through on every committment and statement he made.
Good luck to you and your son. I can almost sense the excitement in your posts. However, don't let that excitement cloud your judgement and continued research and discussions with the coach to make sure this is the right "fit."

One would think that any player being recruited during the early signing period would be one that could have an impact during their freshman year.

Whether that actually happens is case by case.

quote:

"we think you can make an immediate impact as a freshman"

if that was stated to my son, by a coach who wanted "early commitment" whether by ED or NLI, my advice would be - IF the fit is right and

YOU believe YOU can make an immediate impact - say YES,
that's an opportunity staring you in the face

YOU do NOT believe you can make an immediate impact - say YES,
that's an opportunity staring you in the face given by someone who believes in you

the resulting impact you make is up to you

jmo

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quote:

He went further and even explained what it meant in terms of position/progression/potential value to the team and how he expected summer league placement to work.

InfieldDad, Those questions may really provide clarification on the comment being discussed. Very good post!

I always felt like you could tell in your gut too the genuine interest and desire of a coach vs the one that was giving a "pat" answer. Sometimes, we don't value our instincts enough.

baseballtoday,
I personally think Dad04 has it exactly right. The idea that you are being recruited during the early signing period, in effect, suggests the coaches see, that with a lot of hard work, you can "earn" the opportunity to play and contribute as a freshman.
It can be pretty easy to either not know or overlook that the team has 2 players returning at that position and they want to play also. As ClevelandDad pointed out a few weeks back, even if there isn't a returner, by the time you show up on campus, there can be a JC and 4 year college transfer competing with you for playing time.
From what I have learned, equating the recruiting experience with playing time as a freshman misses the unbelievable amount of hard work and other sacrifices and challenges that occur after you sign the NLI and before that first college game in February, 16 months later.
An awful lot can happen to a 17-19 year old in 16 months. The same can be said of a college baseball program. As hard as it may seem, whatever a player accomplished before they signed that NLI doesn't mean too much 16 months later in terms of starting/playing when they step on the field for that first college game.

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I always felt like you could tell in your gut too the genuine interest and desire of a coach vs the one that was giving a "pat" answer. Sometimes, we don't value our instincts enough.

lafmom,
You should have written a book. Someone did and called it "blink." National bestseller of the type that leads to early retirement. Who would have thought???

First- congrats to your son! Some things to consider:

-I believe that ED only is binding for the first year. After that NCAA tranfer rules would apply. Binding would mean you would be required to put your deposit down and such.

-With ED, you also accept without knowing your complete financial package. This may or may not be a concern for your family.

-Has your son had a chance to talk with any players? Are they happy?

-What did your son's gut and your gut tell you about the coach? Usually that instinct is a good one if we listen to it.

- Is the school a good fit academically? Does it offer your son's major? Would he be happy here, God forbid, even without baseball?

I would say if the majority of those answers can be answered with a "yes" then I would say so long to the search and welcome to the school!!

Good luck and much congrats!!

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Originally posted by PopTime:

quote:

Would YOU believe it?

I guess why I'm asking is that my son wants to call off the whole very stressful, time consuming college search process if he hears this week or next (the coach's stated time frame) that he'll get in to this school if he applies. He's tired, we're tired, it would be nice to have it behind us. Opinions?

I understand, go for it!

Infielddad,
Blink!

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Originally posted by MD21:
-Has your son had a chance to talk with any players? Are they happy?

-What did your son's gut and your gut tell you about the coach? Usually that instinct is a good one if we listen to it.

- Is the school a good fit academically? Does it offer your son's major? Would he be happy here, God forbid, even without baseball?

If the word we are anxiously awaiting is positive, then he has been invited on 9/29 to stay overnight in the dorm with some of the players and meet the rest of the coaching staff. The next day he'll watch the team in action in the only fall season game against another team they're allowed. I think after that visit the coach will probably ask that he make a decision shortly so everyone can move on. I think my son will have enough to go on at that point to finally decide.
My son's gut and our guts (ewww) are telling us that this IS the place. We all think the coach is great, a native New Englander who loves the Patriots and RedSox (woo hoo!) and the school and campus are just beautiful. They DO have my son's major (exercise science) and the baseball coach is actually an instructor in one of the labs in that program. His face really lit up when my son told him his intended major!
I feel we're almost at the finish line. Do you think that because we're applying ED that Financial Aid will try and low ball us? Is there anything we can do preemptively to prevent this? I had forgotten all about that little tidbit, but I do remember the coach mentioning it.

Best of luck with the decision, PopTime. I know how exciting the decision can be--and it was the overnight stay that sealed the deal with my son. He committed in Feb last year (D-III also) and it took the weight of the worlds of his (and my) shoulders. He was completely relaxed his senior season. Hope your's will have the same experience.

I don't think financial aid will low ball you. That package cannot be detemined until you fill out the FAFSA in early Jan/ Feb. You want to make sure you fill it out as soon as possible when the funds are all still available. Since it is DIII there is no athletic money. You can still try to negotiate after you get the financial aid package from them.

Poptime, dbg_fan has it right re the impact of Early Decision on the situation.

Early decision is an admissions practice, nothing to do with baseball or the NLI process or the NCAA.

Early decision is meant to help kids whom the school would definitely admit in April, and who have decided which shool they are sure is their # 1, both to get their decisions made before Christmas. This gives both sides security and also saves the student a bundle of time and money since applying to second-choice schools becomes unnecessary.

Even if you don't get in ED, you can continue to apply through the regular process and hope to make the cut in April.

In real life, kids break their word on ED all the time. They apply ED to more than one school and accept at more than one and then sort things out later. Some will even continue applying all spring, thinking they have a "safety net" school in the bag but can still "look to upgrade". The spread of this practice is leading many schools to abandon ED procedures altogether.

What all this means is, ED is a "gentleman's agreement" situation, where persons of honor consider themselves bound and others flaunt the whole notion of being honor bound. But in any event, it governs only initial admissions to a school and has no bearing whatsoever on the student's commitment to stay all four years, nor on whether the school will keep him all four years.

The advantage of getting in ED is that if you are one who lives by your word, and if this really is the situation you would rank this school # 1 on your list anyway, you can have all this squared away even before fall grades come out! That means your son won't have to sweat the tests so much that spring, and can go out and play baseball this spring purely for the fun of the game and without feeling like he has to impress somebody somewhere.

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We all think the coach is great, a native New Englander who loves the Patriots and RedSox

ya conviently left that part out earlier
I may have to change my opinion as you're incapable of thinking clearly



back to serious now (homeboy Golik was a Pat) - - congrats and good luck


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Bee> Take care of my boy Willie McGinest over there in Ohio. One of my all-time favorites!

PopTime, congrats from another New Englander (MA).....sounds like a very positive thing for your son.....and you have been given some good advise.....ED has nothing to do with the NCAA.....and financial assistance from the school will depend on the FAFSA.....that said.....there should be academic scholarships available from the school.....especially if it is one of the "new ives"....you should check their website....schools usually list some of their major academic scholarships....and this is where your bargaining may take place....it did with us....son at an excellent academic D3...and we negotiated.....and it helped.....we kept the Coach advised....and that was a good thing too.....

Now....as far as what Coaches say/promise during the recruitment process....well....think the best thing your son can do as a college player is work as hard as he can at his game....always....and make it easier for the Coach to stay true to his recruitment "comments"....

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lafmom,
You should have written a book. Someone did and called it "blink."

I haven't always followed that advice and typically have regretted when I didn't! I'll have to check that book out though... sounds interesting!

POP TIME


did you get my PM?

midlo

If you are denied admission in the ED process you cannot be considered in the regular pool. Only if you are deferred.

Sorry for not being more clear on that, you are correct.

I usually think of ED as involving higher academic achievers, so usually it's a question of either getting in or getting deferred at that stage. But if someone doesn't meet the school's basic criteria, you are right, they may be told "no" on the same early time table.