If redshirt player doesn't count towards the 11.7, can anyone find that rule/law?
I thought it would be in the section regarding who is a coutner but I can't find it.
Or does this concept not actually exist?
Thanks
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Excellent question considering the changes in roster size...
While I do not know for certain...I have been told repeatedly by programs that it is up to the individual school...so I am not certain that there are any hard rules. Should that be the case, should be some creative use in the future.
44
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Excellent question considering the changes in roster size...
While I do not know for certain...I have been told repeatedly by programs that it is up to the individual school...so I am not certain that there are any hard rules. Should that be the case, should be some creative use in the future.
44.
I do know that if a player receives only institutional financial aid such as loans or academic scholarhips his or her aid would not count against a team's scholarship limits. But I can't find it in the 400 plus pages.
Also, a player is not declared a redshirt until AFTER the season, but I heard that redshirt is then counted the next.
In other words if a coach had 4 redshirts declared end of 2007 does that means in 2008 he is allowed 4?
Also, a player is not declared a redshirt until AFTER the season, but I heard that redshirt is then counted the next.
In other words if a coach had 4 redshirts declared end of 2007 does that means in 2008 he is allowed 4?
just wondering ...
did someone make the statment that "redshirts don't count against 11.7"?
it sounds like an "urban legend"
it's clear they are counted against football scholly #s
observations -
ncaa compliance policies are pretty concise .. it seems pretty unlikly that individual schools could be allowed to self-interpret how they wanted to handle redshirt $$
I'm confident that if you're recieving "athletic aid" you are in the count
AND, I understood that the # of r-s on the team was limited only by -
"how many guys can you afford to sit while paying athletic aid & counting against your 11.7"
did someone make the statment that "redshirts don't count against 11.7"?
it sounds like an "urban legend"
it's clear they are counted against football scholly #s
observations -
ncaa compliance policies are pretty concise .. it seems pretty unlikly that individual schools could be allowed to self-interpret how they wanted to handle redshirt $$
I'm confident that if you're recieving "athletic aid" you are in the count
AND, I understood that the # of r-s on the team was limited only by -
"how many guys can you afford to sit while paying athletic aid & counting against your 11.7"
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Despite the plethora of NCAA Rules and regs...
Waren't roster sizes the exact same way (self directed) until the new rules? 35 or 50...you choose!?
Do these rules exist for Baseball $..?
44
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Despite the plethora of NCAA Rules and regs...
Waren't roster sizes the exact same way (self directed) until the new rules? 35 or 50...you choose!?
Do these rules exist for Baseball $..?
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Here is the ruling on the number of scholarships and the effective dates:
Effective Date: Aug 01, 2008
During the 2008-09 academic year, there shall be a limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and a limit of 30 on the total number of counters, in baseball at each institution. During the 2009-10 academic year and thereafter, there shall be an annual limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and an annual limit of 27 on the total number of counters in baseball at each institution. (Adopted: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/08)
ON REDSHIRTS:
I couldn't find that "redshirts" didn't count against the 11.7 so we have to assume that redshirts DO count and it seems as if even the medical redshirt is counted against the 11.7 unless the athlete becomes incapable of EVER participating in his/her sport. Interesting the rule is retroactive if his or her circumstances change:
If circumstances change and the student-athlete subsequently practices or competes at the institution at which the incapacitating injury or illness occurred, the student-athlete again shall become a counter, and the institution shall be required to count that financial aid under the limitations of this bylaw in the sport in question during each academic year in which the financial aid was received
Effective Date: Aug 01, 2008
During the 2008-09 academic year, there shall be a limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and a limit of 30 on the total number of counters, in baseball at each institution. During the 2009-10 academic year and thereafter, there shall be an annual limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and an annual limit of 27 on the total number of counters in baseball at each institution. (Adopted: 4/26/07 effective 8/1/08)
ON REDSHIRTS:
I couldn't find that "redshirts" didn't count against the 11.7 so we have to assume that redshirts DO count and it seems as if even the medical redshirt is counted against the 11.7 unless the athlete becomes incapable of EVER participating in his/her sport. Interesting the rule is retroactive if his or her circumstances change:
If circumstances change and the student-athlete subsequently practices or competes at the institution at which the incapacitating injury or illness occurred, the student-athlete again shall become a counter, and the institution shall be required to count that financial aid under the limitations of this bylaw in the sport in question during each academic year in which the financial aid was received
sure, but roster size is irrelevant as to whether a guy was getting athletic aid or not -quote:by O44: Weren't roster sizes the exact same way (self directed) until the new rules? 35 or 50...you choose
coach could formerly split the 11.7 in many pieces or few pieces, w/some on academic $$, hope scholarship $$, some walk-ons had no $$, etc
from fungo's last quote (italics) it appears that a player w/a "medical hardship waiver" could indeed be a non-counter & exempt from the 11.7
often the "medical hardship waiver" is incorrectly referred to as a "redshirt"
& that may be causing the confusion
soo.. it appears that the 27 limit doesn't kick til 2010 ...
it doesn't mention anything about 33% minimums
did they give up on that?
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Exactly.
Scenerio. Player comes in on .50 baseball $. Gets hurt. Still gets baseball money, but now it's called "medical hardship waiver"....so it's not counted against the 11.7....
Now the team only has 11.2...and .50 is available until the "medical hardship waiver" comes back...
I still have the same questions as before......are there NCAA BASEBALL rules for this? How many players max? How Long? What exactly is a qualifyable injury? Who decides? Is there NCAA supervision? How closely? Reports? If the roster sizes change, without any corresponding rules in this area. there wouldn't be any abuse would there?
44
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quote:from fungo's last quote (italics) it appears that a player w/a "medical hardship waiver" could indeed be a non-counter & exempt from the 11.7
Exactly.
Scenerio. Player comes in on .50 baseball $. Gets hurt. Still gets baseball money, but now it's called "medical hardship waiver"....so it's not counted against the 11.7....
Now the team only has 11.2...and .50 is available until the "medical hardship waiver" comes back...
I still have the same questions as before......are there NCAA BASEBALL rules for this? How many players max? How Long? What exactly is a qualifyable injury? Who decides? Is there NCAA supervision? How closely? Reports? If the roster sizes change, without any corresponding rules in this area. there wouldn't be any abuse would there?
44.
BEE, what is the link to the medical hardship waiver?
From what I gather the injury or the illness must be so severe as to prevent the athlete from EVER participating in college athletics in order to eliminate them from being counted in the 11.7. Am I missing something?
15.5.1.3
Counter Who Becomes Injured or Ill.
A counter who becomes injured or ill to the point that he or she apparently never again will be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics shall not be considered a counter beginning with the academic year following the incapacitating injury or illness.
15.5.1.3.1 Incapacitating Injury or Illness.
If an incapacitating injury or illness occurs prior to a student-athlete's participation in athletically related activities and results in the student-athlete's inability to compete ever again, the student-athlete shall not be counted within the institution's maximum financial aid award limitations for the current, as well as subsequent, academic years. However, if the incapacitating injury or illness occurs on or after the student-athlete's participation in countable athletically related activities in the sport, the student-athlete shall be counted in the institution's maximum financial aid limitations for the current academic year but need not be counted in subsequent academic years. (Adopted: 1/10/91; Revised: 3/26/04)
15.5.1.3.2 Change in Circumstances.
If circumstances change and the student-athlete subsequently practices or competes at the institution at which the incapacitating injury or illness occurred, the student-athlete again shall become a counter, and the institution shall be required to count that financial aid under the limitations of this bylaw in the sport in question during each academic year in which the financial aid was received. (Revised: 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01)
15.5.1.3.3 Waiver.
The Management Council, by a two-thirds majority of its members present and voting, may waive the requirements of Bylaw 15.5.1.3.2 upon determination that sufficient documentation is available from competent medical authorities to indicate that the original injury or illness clearly appeared to be incapacitating and that there was no reasonable expectation that the student-athlete ever again would be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics.
From what I gather the injury or the illness must be so severe as to prevent the athlete from EVER participating in college athletics in order to eliminate them from being counted in the 11.7. Am I missing something?
15.5.1.3
Counter Who Becomes Injured or Ill.
A counter who becomes injured or ill to the point that he or she apparently never again will be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics shall not be considered a counter beginning with the academic year following the incapacitating injury or illness.
15.5.1.3.1 Incapacitating Injury or Illness.
If an incapacitating injury or illness occurs prior to a student-athlete's participation in athletically related activities and results in the student-athlete's inability to compete ever again, the student-athlete shall not be counted within the institution's maximum financial aid award limitations for the current, as well as subsequent, academic years. However, if the incapacitating injury or illness occurs on or after the student-athlete's participation in countable athletically related activities in the sport, the student-athlete shall be counted in the institution's maximum financial aid limitations for the current academic year but need not be counted in subsequent academic years. (Adopted: 1/10/91; Revised: 3/26/04)
15.5.1.3.2 Change in Circumstances.
If circumstances change and the student-athlete subsequently practices or competes at the institution at which the incapacitating injury or illness occurred, the student-athlete again shall become a counter, and the institution shall be required to count that financial aid under the limitations of this bylaw in the sport in question during each academic year in which the financial aid was received. (Revised: 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01)
15.5.1.3.3 Waiver.
The Management Council, by a two-thirds majority of its members present and voting, may waive the requirements of Bylaw 15.5.1.3.2 upon determination that sufficient documentation is available from competent medical authorities to indicate that the original injury or illness clearly appeared to be incapacitating and that there was no reasonable expectation that the student-athlete ever again would be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
If redshirt player doesn't count towards the 11.7, can anyone find that rule/law?
I thought it would be in the section regarding who is a coutner but I can't find it.
Or does this concept not actually exist?
Thanks
Maybe as others have said its urban legend, but I also had heard that the redshirt would not count towards the 11.7 . I figured that was how some teams could bring in a signing class of 15 and only be losing 6 players...
It does bring into question how they impact the 35 man roster, and how a medical redshirt impacts the 35 man roster moving forward. Not trying to hyjack thread, but over the next few years I think we will see some horror stories on players being cutdue to roster size limitations and minimum scholarship requirements.
I was just going by what fungo had quoted "seemed" to indicate -quote:by O44: Scenerio. Player comes in on .50 baseball $. Gets hurt. Still gets baseball money, but now it's called "medical hardship waiver"....so it's not counted against the 11.7....
from what he's posted since, it would seem a player with a "season ending injury" would still count against 11.7 even w/the "medical hardship waiver" ( which is only a request to get back the yr of eligibility in which the injury ocurred... it is submitted thru the conference to the ncaa.
it already happens ... AND, many schools already dump injuriesquote:by Nova: over the next few years I think we will see some horror stories on players being cutdue to roster size limitations and minimum scholarship requirements
but others, (ex. GT) will continue to have 33 man rosters, will not run off players in a fall tryout,
if occasionally a guy needs an extra yr developing they'll offer a r-s, and continue to stand by their $$ commitment to players who are injured.
maybe new rules will entice/force others to follow suit
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:I was just going by what fungo had quoted "seemed" to indicate -quote:by O44: Scenerio. Player comes in on .50 baseball $. Gets hurt. Still gets baseball money, but now it's called "medical hardship waiver"....so it's not counted against the 11.7....it already happens ... AND, many schools already dump injuriesquote:by Nova: over the next few years I think we will see some horror stories on players being cutdue to roster size limitations and minimum scholarship requirements
Bee, I agree some schools run off/ dump players, (but I wasn't meaning due to injury (since as u note it becomes hardship and does not count towards 11.7, not sure what the reason school would run off player...but I'm sure it happens) I meant more to the reason of not being able to carry dead weight (in the coaches eyes) who is taking up a 35% scholarship, which under the old system may have been just books which the coach financially could live with ( A good kid, good student, but just has not developed into a contributer on the field). With new rules coming in place, it may take some coaches a little time to manage it properly and in turn have to make decisions they never had to in the past.
I figure if you guys can't find it then I can't either! 
If it is only urban legend than many under the assumption it's not, myself included.
I was under the assumption why NCAA made max in roster size, to do away with this. Coaches bringing in too many, giving some academic money or books and then skirting around the 11.7.
Bee is correct, no such thing as medical redshirt, it's a hardship waiver, usually granted.
I am going to try to get a real answer as to this or does it just apply to football (or other sports).
As far as redshirt being granted "after" the season, I am also confused. If I understand that the coach can use those redshirts the following year, he already has a good idea who he is going to redshirt and who he is not when freshman come in. That would lend itself to why coaches have more show up in the fall than he will roster in the spring?
If parents want to know why their players get pursued hotly and then things quiet down, the good recruiting coach has to make sure he has his ducks in a row before he can offer anything. The not so sharp coach doesn't care, he'll hand out walk ons for fall and then number crunch before spring.
If it is only urban legend than many under the assumption it's not, myself included.
I was under the assumption why NCAA made max in roster size, to do away with this. Coaches bringing in too many, giving some academic money or books and then skirting around the 11.7.
Bee is correct, no such thing as medical redshirt, it's a hardship waiver, usually granted.
I am going to try to get a real answer as to this or does it just apply to football (or other sports).
As far as redshirt being granted "after" the season, I am also confused. If I understand that the coach can use those redshirts the following year, he already has a good idea who he is going to redshirt and who he is not when freshman come in. That would lend itself to why coaches have more show up in the fall than he will roster in the spring?
If parents want to know why their players get pursued hotly and then things quiet down, the good recruiting coach has to make sure he has his ducks in a row before he can offer anything. The not so sharp coach doesn't care, he'll hand out walk ons for fall and then number crunch before spring.