It is possible that a new trend will now begin and become a bit like college basketball--- kids will begin to decommit on a regular basis-- they will still get other offers thru the summer of their junior to senior year and many will end up changing their minds because until the NLI nothing is a done deal
We may begin to see a load of disappointed college coaches
TPM,
Comments like the one below show that you know nothing about the game of baseball or recruiting.
First of all, if a player decided to commit early and they have found their dream school then I think they should. This is not a criticism of anyone but TPM for sprouting off on a topic she has no idea on. She'll probably close this topic shortly anyway.
Schools are telling underclassmen to commit or they will be offering the scholarship to someone else. I have had 2010s and 2009s speak to me about being pressured by the college coach to commit on an unofficial visit. Basically, the player has interest in the school, but does not want to commit now. The coach told him and his parents that the offer won't be there much longer if he doesn't commit.
My advice to the players was to not commit unless that was the school that they wanted to go to. But pressure does get to some kids.
Interestingly, TPM's source has several 2010 and 2009 commitments to their class. I'm not saying those players were pressured - just that they have early commitments.
As for players making early commitments and still out looking most kids are not once they say they are going to a certain college. However, there are some college coaches that are looking and will withdraw an offer if they find a better player and leave the kid out there twisting in the wind.
As for early offers meaning less money for showcases...you are crazy. Most of those players have professional asperations. Those players NEED to go to PG showcases (like the Underclassman next month) to continue to be seen. Those families don't save any monies whatsoever.
Comments like the one below show that you know nothing about the game of baseball or recruiting.
quote:Early recruiting is a result of parents pressuring college coaches to give their sons early offers. If the coach feels it's a viable option, why not go for it, but NOTHING is a guarantee until they sign. They may make early commitments, but they are still out looking. This is also a direct result of the economic sign of our times, early offer means less money for showcases, tournaments, travel teams.
PG may not agree, but that's what I have been told by a very reliable source.
GO CARDS!
First of all, if a player decided to commit early and they have found their dream school then I think they should. This is not a criticism of anyone but TPM for sprouting off on a topic she has no idea on. She'll probably close this topic shortly anyway.
Schools are telling underclassmen to commit or they will be offering the scholarship to someone else. I have had 2010s and 2009s speak to me about being pressured by the college coach to commit on an unofficial visit. Basically, the player has interest in the school, but does not want to commit now. The coach told him and his parents that the offer won't be there much longer if he doesn't commit.
My advice to the players was to not commit unless that was the school that they wanted to go to. But pressure does get to some kids.
Interestingly, TPM's source has several 2010 and 2009 commitments to their class. I'm not saying those players were pressured - just that they have early commitments.
As for players making early commitments and still out looking most kids are not once they say they are going to a certain college. However, there are some college coaches that are looking and will withdraw an offer if they find a better player and leave the kid out there twisting in the wind.
As for early offers meaning less money for showcases...you are crazy. Most of those players have professional asperations. Those players NEED to go to PG showcases (like the Underclassman next month) to continue to be seen. Those families don't save any monies whatsoever.
EH
To answer your question of last evening ---in a word YES !!!!
To answer your question of last evening ---in a word YES !!!!
Here is a question for parents to ponder:
Your son is a 2010 top player. What if a Top 25 offered your son a scholarship today? But the school is not your dream school, but it is good enough academically and you could consider attending it. The coach tells you the offer will only last two weeks and then it is off the table. The dream school says they have interest, but want to see your son more before they make an offer - probably waiting until after his junior year.
What do you do?
This is a question that has come up in the past with players. None of my present players is in this position.
Your son is a 2010 top player. What if a Top 25 offered your son a scholarship today? But the school is not your dream school, but it is good enough academically and you could consider attending it. The coach tells you the offer will only last two weeks and then it is off the table. The dream school says they have interest, but want to see your son more before they make an offer - probably waiting until after his junior year.
What do you do?
This is a question that has come up in the past with players. None of my present players is in this position.
quote:Comments like the one below show that you know nothing about the game of baseball or recruiting.
Nothing at all?
Interesting thread, after just having gone through the recruiting process I think I have come to realize that the early commitment issue is a two way street. The colleges and player /parents all play a big role as to why the early recruiting is happening. As a parent it’s great that you son is considered one of the top guys out there but you find out real quick that your 16-17 year old son has become a product. Like it or not, how you deal with this is going to be big part of the recruiting process.
My son really had no intention of signing early however he knew that he would probably need to do unofficial visits prior to his junior season if he wanted to make an informed decision. (In his case we got the impression that the schools on his list would want answers long before the official visits would be available). Once on campus we found as soon as you finish the tour things speed up pretty quick. It usually starts with a statement something like "are you ready to make a decisions if you find the right fit", then “how serious are you about coming to school here”, and finally "we hate that we are forced to do this however things are moving so quickly we feel we have to make early offers so just to show you how much we want you..." It wasn’t a bad thing but I guess we were somewhat naive and weren’t expecting offers at an unofficial visit.
Like I said my son really wasn't looking to make an early decision, heck he hadn’t even played is first game as junior. However after a series of 4 or 5 unofficial visits he ended up with offers from 3 of them and the 4th & 5th schools told him when he had his choices down to his top 2 to give them a call for their offer.
Role the tape forward, he ended up waiting until July to make his choice (which used to be considered early) but I will tell you we fought him tooth and nail to wait. When a kid hears they want you now, it’s easy to become fearful that it might be taken away if he waits too long. And while schools will tell you they will wait, don't kid yourself; they will continue to recruit at your son’s position even if they have made an offer. As one coach told me as we were coming down the homestretch “we have to figure that your son will not be coming to our school until we have his verbal commitment, until we hear otherwise we have to keep recruiting for that roster position”. I can’t say I blame them, I understand that they are doing their job. Like it or not this is a business and yes marketing, strategy and negotiation is involved in the process. Welcome to the real world son.
I can see from all sides how and why more and more early commitments are happening. This is a stressful time for a 17 year old kid; most of them just want it to be over so they can go back to playing ball and enjoying being a kid. If I have any advice at all it is to try to keep your son’s centered and try not to make a decision based on a fear an offer might be taken away. If it’s the perfect fit and the offer suits your needs go for it, if not it’s not the end of the world and because this is happening so early you son still has time to find the right fit.
My son really had no intention of signing early however he knew that he would probably need to do unofficial visits prior to his junior season if he wanted to make an informed decision. (In his case we got the impression that the schools on his list would want answers long before the official visits would be available). Once on campus we found as soon as you finish the tour things speed up pretty quick. It usually starts with a statement something like "are you ready to make a decisions if you find the right fit", then “how serious are you about coming to school here”, and finally "we hate that we are forced to do this however things are moving so quickly we feel we have to make early offers so just to show you how much we want you..." It wasn’t a bad thing but I guess we were somewhat naive and weren’t expecting offers at an unofficial visit.
Like I said my son really wasn't looking to make an early decision, heck he hadn’t even played is first game as junior. However after a series of 4 or 5 unofficial visits he ended up with offers from 3 of them and the 4th & 5th schools told him when he had his choices down to his top 2 to give them a call for their offer.
Role the tape forward, he ended up waiting until July to make his choice (which used to be considered early) but I will tell you we fought him tooth and nail to wait. When a kid hears they want you now, it’s easy to become fearful that it might be taken away if he waits too long. And while schools will tell you they will wait, don't kid yourself; they will continue to recruit at your son’s position even if they have made an offer. As one coach told me as we were coming down the homestretch “we have to figure that your son will not be coming to our school until we have his verbal commitment, until we hear otherwise we have to keep recruiting for that roster position”. I can’t say I blame them, I understand that they are doing their job. Like it or not this is a business and yes marketing, strategy and negotiation is involved in the process. Welcome to the real world son.
I can see from all sides how and why more and more early commitments are happening. This is a stressful time for a 17 year old kid; most of them just want it to be over so they can go back to playing ball and enjoying being a kid. If I have any advice at all it is to try to keep your son’s centered and try not to make a decision based on a fear an offer might be taken away. If it’s the perfect fit and the offer suits your needs go for it, if not it’s not the end of the world and because this is happening so early you son still has time to find the right fit.
If a kid commits real early, say before junior year then doesn't meet the academic admissions requirements of the college, isn't he leaving himself without options? Most colleges walk away on verbals to other programs.
Jerseydad,
Great post!
RJM,
Good question. I would tell one of my players not to commit if there was a question of whether he can get into a college academically.
We have a 2009 player that is deciding between Ivy League and ACC schools. Ivy League has offered a spot (no scholarships) and the ACC has offered a scholarship, but would like an answer soon. He is taking the SAT in January and will decide after he gets his results.
My guess is that if it is questionable for his admittance into the Ivy League program he will go to the ACC school right away. But he will not make any decision until he get the SAT results, as he has always dreamed of an Ivy League education.
Great post!
RJM,
Good question. I would tell one of my players not to commit if there was a question of whether he can get into a college academically.
We have a 2009 player that is deciding between Ivy League and ACC schools. Ivy League has offered a spot (no scholarships) and the ACC has offered a scholarship, but would like an answer soon. He is taking the SAT in January and will decide after he gets his results.
My guess is that if it is questionable for his admittance into the Ivy League program he will go to the ACC school right away. But he will not make any decision until he get the SAT results, as he has always dreamed of an Ivy League education.
We have now opened another "pandoras box" with the academic situation--- a frosh or soph committing to a school has no assurance that he will be accepted at that institution--- And let us go one step further---why would a coach make a decision on a sophomore player in baseball with two more years , at least , of development and maturity of lack thereof to come---18 months later he might find a "stud" who is "there" and since no papers are signed he has no obligation ---the committment that early is basically onesided on the part of the player and can be a huge disappointment
We have players who now are finding other schools coming into the game--that is a good thing--the more choices the better--
I say be patient and get what you want so you are comfortable when you get there for the freshman season.
We have players who now are finding other schools coming into the game--that is a good thing--the more choices the better--
I say be patient and get what you want so you are comfortable when you get there for the freshman season.
quote:TR posted: why would a coach make a decision on a sophomore player in baseball with two more years , at least , of development and maturity of lack thereof to come---18 months later he might find a "stud" who is "there" and since no papers are signed he has no obligation ---the committment that early is basically onesided on the part of the player and can be a huge disappointment
You answered your own question. There is no downside for the coach. Coaches have even torn up NLI's. There is no negative consequence getting a player verbally "committed" at anytime, if you can uncommit him with a phone call.
TR and Dad04,
You are both right on the money.
Why not wait until as close to the prefect fit is available. Grabbing the first scholarship offer can end up a disaster.
You are both right on the money.
Why not wait until as close to the prefect fit is available. Grabbing the first scholarship offer can end up a disaster.
Florida Baseball Guy, being a little hard on TPM today. She's not crazy but sharing her opinions on early commitments. I was a parent of a recruited player and what she says has some valid points. I happen to disagree with her on saving money however. I think those players that become candidates for early commitments are very proactive and usually spend excessive amounts of money on exposure anyway ---- in addition to getting exposure for free. If a 2010 hs graduate has made an early commitment as you say you know his parents have already spent money on unofficial visits and are spending money to garner exposure to place him in a position to be offered. His parents, being very proactive and informed, also know this is a preliminary offer/commitment and understand things are subject to changes until the NLI is signed so they continue to cover all the bases (which cost money). Those that “sell” exposure want to perpetuate the fact that there are a few players committing early so they can promote underclassmen showcases and a instill a sense of urgency. College coaches could want to perpetuate the idea that players are committing early so they can convince the young players that it’s normal to go ahead and commit so they can “lock in” their stud players. It also behooves the high profile select team coaches to pronounce that things have suddenly gotten more critical in the exposure game. The recruiting world as we know it is not ending ----- that was merely a debit card falling to the ground.
Fungo
Fungo
after it's signed he can shred it if he wants to ...quote:by D04: There is no downside for the coach. Coaches have even torn up NLI's.
but he still has to honor the copy that the student & NLI office have in hand
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:after it's signed he can shred it if he wants to ...quote:by D04: There is no downside for the coach. Coaches have even torn up NLI's.
but he still has to honor the copy that the student & NLI office have in hand
...if the kid actually shows up. 99.99% of kids just go away. Looks good on paper, though. Thankfully it's a rare occurence, but a little more common lately. Hence, some trickling down.
Fungo,
Too often TPM spurts off on stuff she does not know. She needed to be put in her place. The majority of the advice she gives other parents is bad - based on her reputation as a busy-body baseball mother. So maybe I was harsh, but I have a source that she was the type of parent who calls the coach every other day. That is not the advice I'd give any parent.
To me most of the pressure to sign early is coming from the college coaches. Of course there is the peer pressure (Smith just signed and you weill miss the boat), but even that is set up by the college coaches (as you have so noted in your post).
I do not agree with committing as a 2010 at this point. That is three years away and is too long a period. The coach might not even make it that far - then what.
Too often TPM spurts off on stuff she does not know. She needed to be put in her place. The majority of the advice she gives other parents is bad - based on her reputation as a busy-body baseball mother. So maybe I was harsh, but I have a source that she was the type of parent who calls the coach every other day. That is not the advice I'd give any parent.
To me most of the pressure to sign early is coming from the college coaches. Of course there is the peer pressure (Smith just signed and you weill miss the boat), but even that is set up by the college coaches (as you have so noted in your post).
I do not agree with committing as a 2010 at this point. That is three years away and is too long a period. The coach might not even make it that far - then what.
quote:Too often TPM spurts off on stuff she does not know. She needed to be put in her place. The majority of the advice she gives other parents is bad - based on her reputation as a busy-body baseball mother. So maybe I was harsh, but I have a source that she was the type of parent who calls the coach every other day. That is not the advice I'd give any parent.
Can we get back to baseball and not criticizing someone's opinion? I know most of us really value TPM's advice and the time she puts into making this website what it is.
quote:The coach might not even make it that far - then what.
Exactly.
That should be a huge concern of any player tempted to sign really early.
I can give you an example of how it is hurting. Around this time last year a Nameless School "offers" 3 08's who have yet to play their junior seasons. In October of this year 2 of those players are encouraged to look elsewhere.
The damage should be obvious, but I will spell it out, Lost Opportunities. Both kids could have committed/signed with other schools, but by the time they were encouraged to go elsewhere those schools had already filled their 08 classes. Both ended up committing to good programs, but by allowing themselves to be taken off the market for a year, they missed out on a lot of other opportunities.
The moral of the story is that any kid/parent that commits early should remember that the commitment means NOTHING. The NCAA should ban early commitments.
As for the suggestion that parents can pressure coaches into making offers I would have to agree with TRHit. Until an NLI is signed coaches can withdraw an "offer" at any time. No one can force them to do anything they don't want to do. And if they decide later that they made a mistake, all they have to do is withdraw the offer.
The damage should be obvious, but I will spell it out, Lost Opportunities. Both kids could have committed/signed with other schools, but by the time they were encouraged to go elsewhere those schools had already filled their 08 classes. Both ended up committing to good programs, but by allowing themselves to be taken off the market for a year, they missed out on a lot of other opportunities.
The moral of the story is that any kid/parent that commits early should remember that the commitment means NOTHING. The NCAA should ban early commitments.
As for the suggestion that parents can pressure coaches into making offers I would have to agree with TRHit. Until an NLI is signed coaches can withdraw an "offer" at any time. No one can force them to do anything they don't want to do. And if they decide later that they made a mistake, all they have to do is withdraw the offer.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
dawgswood,
What is happening more and more is top players are making a verbal committment before they start their junior year of high school. For the most part this happens during the summer between their soph and junior year, but there have been a few cases of players committing even earlier (as you referred to one at FL) There was also one in Southern Cal and a few more.
IMO This trend of getting early committments from top players, between soph and junior year, is only going to grow unless the NCAA stops it. I really don't see how it is hurting anything, but that doesn't mean the NCAA won't get involved.
Colleges will always try to get an advantage over other colleges if something is legal. This is highly competitive stuff, as we all know!
Just thought of another old saying that fits here... The early bird gets the worm!
without more info, that sounds more like the effects of the new roster & scholorship rules,quote:I can give you an example of how it is hurting. Around this time last year a Nameless School "offers" 3 08's who have yet to play their junior seasons. In October of this year 2 of those players are encouraged to look elsewhere.
unless that particular school makes a habit of it
I can see why you would think that. But in this particularly case it was not a numbers issue. Just a pure business decision by the coaching staff to sign other players. Don't know that it is a habit for this particular school. I certainly hope not, and I have not heard that. But it is a clear example of the the dangers of an early commitment.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:without more info, that sounds more like the effects of the new roster & scholorship rules,quote:I can give you an example of how it is hurting. Around this time last year a Nameless School "offers" 3 08's who have yet to play their junior seasons. In October of this year 2 of those players are encouraged to look elsewhere.
unless that particular school makes a hbit of it
quote:quote:
The coach might not even make it that far - then what.
Exactly.
That should be a huge concern of any player tempted to sign really early.
Even if the coach quits the player is not hurt. Even though you said SIGN I think you mean "verbally agreed to" since there is nothing to sign. Everyone involved should understand how unbinding this process is. If early commitments begin to run rampant to the point where it affects the recruiting process the facts will come out. At that point in time the parents will become more informed and able to make better decisions. Until then proceed as usual.
Please feel free to show me the error of my thoughts here (like you sharks need any encouragement )
What would be the downside to having NCAA official offer periods? Coaches would be allowed to tell players that they intend to make an offer, but don't allow coaches to make or insinuate what offer might be made until the offer period begins.
Have four offer periods, two during Junior year and two during Senior year.
Make the offer period long enough (21 days?) so that research could be done and competitive offers weighed.
In the first period each year, make the schools offer non contingent, so that the offer must remain on the table until either the player signs with some school, declines the offer, or the period ends. That way they can't make three offers for one slot and tell the player, first come, first served.
The upside as I see it is that lack of pressure put on athletes to commit to a non-binding process that favors only the insititution and not the student. It also makes the institution show its hand to recruits on who is getting true love and who is being strung along. It offers some transparency to a process that is more muddled than any other in collegiate athletics.
)What would be the downside to having NCAA official offer periods? Coaches would be allowed to tell players that they intend to make an offer, but don't allow coaches to make or insinuate what offer might be made until the offer period begins.
Have four offer periods, two during Junior year and two during Senior year.
Make the offer period long enough (21 days?) so that research could be done and competitive offers weighed.
In the first period each year, make the schools offer non contingent, so that the offer must remain on the table until either the player signs with some school, declines the offer, or the period ends. That way they can't make three offers for one slot and tell the player, first come, first served.
The upside as I see it is that lack of pressure put on athletes to commit to a non-binding process that favors only the insititution and not the student. It also makes the institution show its hand to recruits on who is getting true love and who is being strung along. It offers some transparency to a process that is more muddled than any other in collegiate athletics.
Regarding the point that these might just be rumors. If we hear from a player who is a sophomore that he has committed to a college, it is something we would never mention. When we here from the player and the coach at that college that said player has committed, we take that as being a fact.
Regarding the academics. All the sophomores who are committing early are very good students and not much risk involved in a college making an offer and they not being able to meet the academic requirements. For example… One of the early commitments at U of Florida for 2009 is ranked #1 in his high school class. Early offers are just like any other offer, the academics always play a part. The number one prospect in the country is not likely to get an early offer if he is high risk academically.
A reason, beyond the obvious, why colleges are doing this and really don’t want it kept quiet. When it becomes public knowledge that three top high school sophomores have committed to a certain college, other top players might want to attend that same college. Kind of a follow the leader thing! In this situation, the college can benefit from having a top prospect even if he loses said prospect to the draft eventually. He lost that player, but might have picked up a few other top players along the way based on the drafted (lost) player committing early.
The very most talented players in the country do not need parents to promote them or help them secure offers. They only need parents to guide them in their decision process. College coaches, do not wait around to hear from parents when there is a player they want. The best college coaches initiate the process. There are many legal ways for them to do this.
I do agree that we are talking about a very small percentage of young players here. Usually the very best! I really can’t understand how this could possibly cause another top player or late bloomer to feel discouraged. If he is discouraged, he just needs to work harder. It’s not like colleges will recruit their entire class as sophomores. Besides, baseball is full of discouraging experiences that the best have to overcome. There will be much more discouraging experiences down the road.
I’m not on any side of the debate as to whether this trend is good or bad. It’s just that we work at this stuff every day and it is clear that this early commitment stuff is gaining more steam each year. It used to be that the early signing period would get some and then the majority signed during the late period. Then it went to more signing during the early period. Then it went to the top colleges being done recruiting before the early period. Now it has become more common for players to commit two years ahead of schedule.
Bob, I don’t always agree with all of TPM’s or anyone else’s opinions, but she sure shows a passion for the game and wanting to help others. She has learned a lot and wants to share it with others, just like most others on this site. I don’t care for the personal stuff when arguing a point. Then again that would be my opinion! Kind of enjoy the bickering in a sadistic sort of way, though, so long as I’m not involved in it.
Personally, I think too many people look at the whole picture based solely on what has happened in their personal experience. Personal experience is great to talk about, and definitely has value. However, it can get confusing at times because there is no exact duplicate outline that fits for everyone. Sometimes, good advice for one person, can be terrible advice to someone else.
None of us has all the answers! Yet by reading what we all collectively have to say, a person searching for answers might be able to get something out of it. I suggest we talk about things without getting overly personal.
Regarding the academics. All the sophomores who are committing early are very good students and not much risk involved in a college making an offer and they not being able to meet the academic requirements. For example… One of the early commitments at U of Florida for 2009 is ranked #1 in his high school class. Early offers are just like any other offer, the academics always play a part. The number one prospect in the country is not likely to get an early offer if he is high risk academically.
A reason, beyond the obvious, why colleges are doing this and really don’t want it kept quiet. When it becomes public knowledge that three top high school sophomores have committed to a certain college, other top players might want to attend that same college. Kind of a follow the leader thing! In this situation, the college can benefit from having a top prospect even if he loses said prospect to the draft eventually. He lost that player, but might have picked up a few other top players along the way based on the drafted (lost) player committing early.
The very most talented players in the country do not need parents to promote them or help them secure offers. They only need parents to guide them in their decision process. College coaches, do not wait around to hear from parents when there is a player they want. The best college coaches initiate the process. There are many legal ways for them to do this.
I do agree that we are talking about a very small percentage of young players here. Usually the very best! I really can’t understand how this could possibly cause another top player or late bloomer to feel discouraged. If he is discouraged, he just needs to work harder. It’s not like colleges will recruit their entire class as sophomores. Besides, baseball is full of discouraging experiences that the best have to overcome. There will be much more discouraging experiences down the road.
I’m not on any side of the debate as to whether this trend is good or bad. It’s just that we work at this stuff every day and it is clear that this early commitment stuff is gaining more steam each year. It used to be that the early signing period would get some and then the majority signed during the late period. Then it went to more signing during the early period. Then it went to the top colleges being done recruiting before the early period. Now it has become more common for players to commit two years ahead of schedule.
Bob, I don’t always agree with all of TPM’s or anyone else’s opinions, but she sure shows a passion for the game and wanting to help others. She has learned a lot and wants to share it with others, just like most others on this site. I don’t care for the personal stuff when arguing a point. Then again that would be my opinion! Kind of enjoy the bickering in a sadistic sort of way, though, so long as I’m not involved in it.
Personally, I think too many people look at the whole picture based solely on what has happened in their personal experience. Personal experience is great to talk about, and definitely has value. However, it can get confusing at times because there is no exact duplicate outline that fits for everyone. Sometimes, good advice for one person, can be terrible advice to someone else.
None of us has all the answers! Yet by reading what we all collectively have to say, a person searching for answers might be able to get something out of it. I suggest we talk about things without getting overly personal.
quote:Even if the coach quits the player is not hurt. Even though you said SIGN I think you mean "verbally agreed to" since there is nothing to sign.
Fungo, you are right -- I did not mean "sign."
I'm not sure that the player would be unhurt if the coach quits. Even though the player's verbal commitment is non-binding and he can move on to another program, it may be a bit awkward for him to extricate himself from his verbal agreement. In addition, he'd have to work very hard to get the word out to everyone so they'll know he is "available" once again.
quote:Originally posted by Florida Baseball Guy:
Fungo,
Too often TPM spurts off on stuff she does not know. She needed to be put in her place. The majority of the advice she gives other parents is bad - based on her reputation as a busy-body baseball mother. So maybe I was harsh, but I have a source that she was the type of parent who calls the coach every other day. That is not the advice I'd give any parent.
To me most of the pressure to sign early is coming from the college coaches. Of course there is the peer pressure (Smith just signed and you weill miss the boat), but even that is set up by the college coaches (as you have so noted in your post).
I do not agree with committing as a 2010 at this point. That is three years away and is too long a period. The coach might not even make it that far - then what.
Thanks curveball, he is just po'd because I closed a thread where he should have been a bit more professional and kept his mouth shut. By the way, most of the websters here felt the same way, I closed it to stop a barage of nasty posts on him (also see responsible posting). I won't stoop to his level but I can tell you that most D1 coaches and parents in our state run in the opposite direction when they see him coming.
You are saying the same thing I did above, I do not beleive in early commitments. Neither do a lot of coaches but that'a what's happening. Take HHH's example of Clemson vs. USC who recruit the same players, which creates the early verbal and this happens in other states as well (here in Florida with 3 big D1 programs competeting with one another).
Barbara Kopp,
I have gotten several emails supporting me this morning and wanting to know how to get rid of you from this site. Kopp - you need to reevaluate your status on this site.
Barbara, your personal experiences with David are not the same as everyone else's. Most parents do not call the coach every other day. Please stop giving out bad advice or making dumb comments like parents are pressuring coaches. LOL. It will be my personal crusade to let you know when you make a dumb comment.
I speak to Division I coaches in Florida all the time and they do run TO ME. The college coaches in Florida appreciate the Central Florida Renegades and other programs like ours. But I do have problems with any coach who overrecruits and promises kids the world and can't keep that promise. You should too instead of using them as your source. Open your eyes!
I have gotten several emails supporting me this morning and wanting to know how to get rid of you from this site. Kopp - you need to reevaluate your status on this site.
Barbara, your personal experiences with David are not the same as everyone else's. Most parents do not call the coach every other day. Please stop giving out bad advice or making dumb comments like parents are pressuring coaches. LOL. It will be my personal crusade to let you know when you make a dumb comment.
I speak to Division I coaches in Florida all the time and they do run TO ME. The college coaches in Florida appreciate the Central Florida Renegades and other programs like ours. But I do have problems with any coach who overrecruits and promises kids the world and can't keep that promise. You should too instead of using them as your source. Open your eyes!
You guys are pretty silly, take it outside! Let's get back to baseball discussions!
HR04
It is not silly when people dispense info that is not valid---I have fought this situation for years on this site---there has to be validity to posts
It is not silly when people dispense info that is not valid---I have fought this situation for years on this site---there has to be validity to posts
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
HR04
It is not silly when people dispense info that is not valid---I have fought this situation for years on this site---there has to be validity to posts
I also cringe when some provide advice which I think is incorrect as well, but personal attacks just makes the site look bad and should not have a place here.
Everyone here has an opinion. Everyone's opinion should be respected. Everyone is not always right or wrong. Sometimes information or advice given is right by their personal experience but wrong based on the readers personal experience. So no one is right or wrong in that case. I do not like personal attacks. You can PM someone can't you? You can just state your opinion and let everyone else decide for themselves. I dont think you make yourself look better by trying to make others look bad. I dont agree with everyones posts. Heck some peoples posts I never seem to agree with. And some peoples posts I always seem to agree with. But there is no need to call people out with this tone. Its just not right. Coach Pincus has a great team. We played them the last two years. He does a good job with those guys and they are very talented. He spends alot of time with these guys and I hear he works very hard for his players. TR does the very same thing. Both are very repected members of the baseball community. TPM is a person that gives way more to this site than she will ever get in return. She has alot of experience with many of the topics and threads on this site. She has a right to her opinion just like everyone else. I dont believe she deserves to be talked to this way. I dont believe anyone does. JMHO
Personal attacks will abound when you have an open forum---I have weathered them myself---no big deal---people should be allowed to speak their mind
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
Everyone here has an opinion. Everyone's opinion should be respected. Everyone is not always right or wrong. Sometimes information or advice given is right by their personal experience but wrong based on the readers personal experience. So no one is right or wrong in that case. I do not like personal attacks. You can PM someone can't you? You can just state your opinion and let everyone else decide for themselves. I dont think you make yourself look better by trying to make others look bad. I dont agree with everyones posts. Heck some peoples posts I never seem to agree with. And some peoples posts I always seem to agree with. But there is no need to call people out with this tone. Its just not right. Coach Pincus has a great team. We played them the last two years. He does a good job with those guys and they are very talented. He spends alot of time with these guys and I hear he works very hard for his players. TR does the very same thing. Both are very repected members of the baseball community. TPM is a person that gives way more to this site than she will ever get in return. She has alot of experience with many of the topics and threads on this site. She has a right to her opinion just like everyone else. I dont believe she deserves to be talked to this way. I dont believe anyone does. JMHO
What he said
Can't we just get along....
As a father of a 2010, I'm interested in most of this early offer/commitment banter. Not being naive, I can see where some abuse could take place (offers rescinded, over recruiting, etc) however me thinks that the vast number of coaches out there are trustworthy types who run good programs and are just dealing with the times the best they can. If you've done your homework and it's the right fit between the two parties, early offers and commits will work out just fine nearly every time and the fear mongering is without merit. These kids already live in a world full of options and this is just another one that they could choose or turn down. All that matters is to have sound judgement when making these decisions, no right or wrong involved IMO.
Overall, all these kids are incredibly fortunate to be playing baseball in this era of PG Jupiter, national tournaments and showcases (even internet-crazed parents). Maybe we should just try and enjoy this time a bit more and worry less.
Overall, all these kids are incredibly fortunate to be playing baseball in this era of PG Jupiter, national tournaments and showcases (even internet-crazed parents). Maybe we should just try and enjoy this time a bit more and worry less.
Think it is very important to hear all sides. I have PMs all the time from people who have had their son's cut because of the new rules sqeezing the funds and smaller roster limits.
I also see guys I have been following who have been cut this year even after soph year because of these new limitations.
Fear mongering ? Maybe ?
I also see guys I have been following who have been cut this year even after soph year because of these new limitations.
Fear mongering ? Maybe ?
I don't doubt the new rules are squeezing kids out and that worthy kids get cut all the time. That is a separate point than the one about the potential harm of early offers and commits. The rule changes will have a ripple affect for a couple of years and we will never get away from kids getting cut unfortunately but I just don't think the early offer situation is on par with these other problems.
In fact it could be argued that it is a sign of the growing popularity of college baseball in that it's recruiting practices are becoming similar to basketball and football.
In fact it could be argued that it is a sign of the growing popularity of college baseball in that it's recruiting practices are becoming similar to basketball and football.
That is why I said the both sides should be looked at. I believe the more you hear both pro and against the better you are to make an educated decision. Some over react to the negative side of things but it is all worth hearing.
quote:Originally posted by Florida Baseball Guy:
Jerseydad,
Great post!
RJM,
Good question. I would tell one of my players not to commit if there was a question of whether he can get into a college academically.
We have a 2009 player that is deciding between Ivy League and ACC schools. Ivy League has offered a spot (no scholarships) and the ACC has offered a scholarship, but would like an answer soon. He is taking the SAT in January and will decide after he gets his results.
My guess is that if it is questionable for his admittance into the Ivy League program he will go to the ACC school right away. But he will not make any decision until he get the SAT results, as he has always dreamed of an Ivy League education.
Average acceptance rate for Ivy League: 13.88% High 25% low 9%
Average Acceptance rate for ACC: 40.71% High 55%; low 29%
Average Ivy Act mid 50: 29 - 33.8 which means 25% of the current 2007 freshman class had slightly lower scores and 25% had higher scores.
Average ACC ACT: 26 - 30.83
I have one daughter who graduated from Columbia in 2005 and another who is currently a Sophomore and on the Volleyball Team. Both are in engineering where the mid 50 act acceptance was 30-34 and the SAT was 2090-2290.
So, there is a big difference between the two in terms of the test scores, but more significantly, in the acceptance rates because many more kids compete for the Ivy spots. We were extremely fortunate to have two children accepted to Columbia. And we are fortunate that our third is equally well positioned to attend, but for his grades.
I can tell you that the Ivy School Athletes consider their education reward enough to attend without scholarships. My daughter is a volleyball walk on. But she first tried s****r at the invitation of the head s****r coach, but she was beaten out for the the position by another walk on. She didn't give up her aspirations to play DI sports, and managed a roster spot on the Volleyball team. I wish I had her determination and dedication. But she is just an example of the character and dedication possessed by most Ivy athletes.
My advice, for what its worth, is if your child has the necessary GPA and past standardized testing projects he will do exceptionally well on the SAT and the ACt, I would wait to commit until then. If not, I would jump on the ACC offer. But you must know already that your 2008 is very late in taking his exams. He should have already taken them twice by now.
Keep in mind that according to NCAA Rules the college coach cannot talk to the player until July 1st after the HS junior year thus the super early committment may not necessarily be mutual---
It's my understanding that college coaches can talk to players any time they are on campus for an unofficial visit -- and this includes sophomore and junior years.