High School Baseball

I think it all really depend on who you've got as coaches and the makeup of the catcher himself.  In HS, I've only seen a rare case where the catcher himself will make the call and most often it's the HC the makes the calls (in what was my little area of California).   Even in college (even high level programs), catchers do not typically call the pitches (not very many calls, anyway).   

I feel it's unfortunate that catchers don't get to make the calls more as it helps them learn the game better.   But when winning is such an overriding issue, the person that knows the game best and/or understands hitting along with studying the individual hitters will be the one most likely to call the pitches.  And that most often is the HC . . . huh???

My husband is a hs pitching coach. He calls the games. The main reason is that the catchers we currently have do not have the level of experience needed to understand how to call a game or the knowledge about the individual hitters to know what to call. Although my husband is making the calls, he's being informed by the scouting reports the team has on the opposing batters. I think it would be great for the catchers to learn to call the game, but most high school coaches don't have the luxury of time to fully teach it or don't want to sacrifice the win to allow a kid to learn through trial and error.

Sometimes our head coach call it. Sometimes I do (catcher coach). Very rarely do we see a catcher calling pitches. If they do it is usually a mediocre team that doesn't have a very good staff. They pitch every batter the same. Get ahead and work outside. Throw off speak when ahead. Very generic.

Wow, talk about over-coaching. Do coaches also tell players where to throw the baseball when it's hit to them? Players need to be able to think on their feet and make their own decisions.

I wasn't what you'd call a "good high school player" but rarely did our coaches call pitches for us. And our coaches are pretty good coaches... but they let us learn by making mistakes. How else are they supposed to do it? 

I totally agree
my sons travel and AAU team my son the catcher calls all the pitches

sportsmomof3 posted:

I totally agree
my sons travel and AAU team my son the catcher calls all the pitches

I think the travel team catchers should call pitches.  It's for development, and you are paying for it.

High school, it's on the coaches.  Whatever gives them the best chance to win.  Whoever calls pitches need a holistic strategy....fielders positioning, batters strengths/weaknesses.  It depends how the team's coaching is set up.  But it's ultimately on the head coach.

95%+ of good HS teams have coaches calling pitches. Those of you that think that's wrong just have never been in the position, or you had extraordinary circumstances.

Why don't high school quarterbacks call plays or high school point guards call plays?  I called pitches in high school and what little bit I played in college (very low level) but looking back on it I had no clue.  I was an assistant coach for softball this year and we called pitches as a staff then halfway through the season we turned it over to the catcher and there wasn't any difference.  Regardless of who calls pitches if the pitcher isn't hitting spots it's a moot point.  If the spot is fastball low and away but he throws it inside then what did it matter what was called?

Me as a coach if I have faith in my catcher AND pitcher then I'll let them call their own game but if I call something they better throw it.  But that's a trust built up between us over time.  If you win then it's the right call for _______ to call the pitches.

This is a discussion/debate that comes up fairly often here.  As some have pointed out, most HS and college programs have a coach call pitches and there are many valid reasons.  Will your HS son catcher actually be up on scouting reports and spray charts of opponents as much as the most qualified coach on staff?  Even if he is, will his other responsibilities suffer a bit in order for him to keep track of all this?  The catcher has so many responsibilities and things to keep track of without calling pitches.  How many HS kids are really equipped to add that and put the team in a better position to win than if that qualified coach was calling? 

I agree that a catcher will learn a lot from calling games and there are right times to have him do so.  We do it with our summer games and most inter-squads.  In the rare instance where a C shows the ability to handle this well without the rest of his game suffering, we're all for it. 

Also, it does depend on the coach alignment as well.  Is there a qualified coach who knows his P's, can do it and put the team in a better position to win? 

Coach' analogy of the football QB is a good one.  No one ever says "well, how is he supposed to learn the game?" when the QB doesn't call plays.  Is It "over-coaching" when the FB HC calls plays?

Catchers learning to call pitches starts or should start when pitchers are learning to pitch. 

Simple instruction in certain counts and let them learn. When he calls for a FB and it lands/set up lane one or two in an 0-2 count, then he needs to hear about what he called and why.

We are so wrapped up in winning at an early age that catchers nowadays seldom learn to call a game. College coaches know these catchers don't know the game and are not willing to gamble their livelihood on their inability. 

Ask any pro scout. This is one of the reasons for the shortage of qualified catchers and the reason catchers at the ML level are able to play many years beyond the other position players. 

After all, no matter what level your kid plays ( rec, TB, ect) it is ALL practice until you make it, if you make it. 

Whether you like it or not catchers are not going to be calling games in high school and 17/18u. Even in MLB you see catchers looking towards the bench a lot. The bench has so much information assessable it would be unwise not to use it.

Before high school the catchers shou,d learn how to call games. It will make them smarter players. From 13-16u we had all but one catcher (he was t very bright) call their own games. We sometimes signaled for a certain pitch from the bench. 

In preteen rec, all stars and travel the catcher called his own game. That is except for the 9u control freak travel  head coach who wanted to prove he knew the game. He called game with 21 pitching zones for nine year old pitchers. 

My son, the regular catcher was amused. He told the pitchers, "Unless I call for a change just throw it by the hitter."

Backpick25 posted:

 

...

After all, no matter what level your kid plays ( rec, TB, ect) it is ALL practice until you make it, if you make it. 

Respectfully disagree... if you got an honest opinion on why they play from any kid at any level, it is about liking/loving playing the game, trying to win, trying to succeed, trying to do better than his friends or opponents on the other team and having fun with his friends/teammates.  This applies from T-ball through college.  Yes, it is also about aspiration but that is not primary purpose for the majority.  The last thing any of them would agree to is "it's all about practice" unless it is something they are parroting from adults.  The day baseball becomes "all about practice" 'til you make the bigs is the day I swear off the game. 

I see you are a youth coach.  I will say that the best youth coaches are able to prioritize development, but without the players knowing that is happening.  They need to think, at least to a large extent, that they are playing to win.  

Most players don't ever "make it".  Why, on earth, should it be all about practicing for something you will never do?

I do agree with you that catchers should start learning how to call games as pitchers  start learning how to pitch.  But that usually doesn't really start happening until teen years.  So, there is typically an awful lot still to be learned when they become HS catchers.  As said before, mileage varies.

 

There isn't a standard one size fits all here.  Typically, I called the pitches for my new catchers until they learned the system.  Naturally, bullpens and in game discussions were where I taught my system.  The goal is to wean them off as fast as I could.  Then, we had signals where I would tell the catcher I wanted to make a call or the catcher had a signal asking me what to call.  You can't leave the pitcher out of the equation and so, we had a signal for the pitcher that I called a pitch and so, no option on a shake off unless I verballed it.  The pitcher could shake the catcher. 

Cabbage- the reference of  "ALL practice" is from a developmental and coaching perspective. This perspective is shared by many of my friends and associates at the MiLB and collegiate level and is in no way to influence a kids perspective of the game or how to play it. Every time they hit the field there's a want to improve their game. It's the continued improvement on intensity and execution or as I reference, practice.

"Making it" can have many meanings to many different players.  For some, it's making it to TB or HS ball, others it's college and so on. 

 

I always called the pitches. My son's current HC allows the catchers to call the game. My reasoning was that I am making a lot of decisions in positioning and what I am trying to get a particular hitter to do - minute-to-minute strategy changes that my catcher may not be privy to. For example, I may have reason to believe there's a good chance that the offense might be trying a hit-and-run on the next pitch and I decide I want a fastball inside. That's something I can't communicate to my catcher quickly enough, so it's better that I'm making the calls.

sportsmomof3 posted:

I want to find out what you guys think.  Who should be calling the pitches during a game, the pitching coach, catching coach, head coach or catcher?  Just want some feedback on what happens in your neck of the woods.

For my high school, our pitching coach calls the pitches, doesn't mean that the pitcher throws what I give him the sign to throw, he might throw a change up when I call curve, or a fastball sometimes before I even get the chance to give him a sign he is already in the windup delivering to the plate.

Wesleythecacther posted:

sportsmomof3 posted:

I want to find out what you guys think.  Who should be calling the pitches during a game, the pitching coach, catching coach, head coach or catcher?  Just want some feedback on what happens in your neck of the woods.

For my high school, our pitching coach calls the pitches, doesn't mean that the pitcher throws what I give him the sign to throw, he might throw a change up when I call curve, or a fastball sometimes before I even get the chance to give him a sign he is already in the windup delivering to the plate.

So do you and / or the pitching coach say anything to him?  I know if I'm catching we will have a nice heart to heart about me knowing what's coming so I could do the best for him to buy strikes on border pitches.  If you're trying to figure out what pitch it is midflight you're not going to do a very good job of sticking pitches.  But if you're able to catch him with little problem and not knowing what's coming then he may not be very good.

When my son caught for his HS team during his sophomore year the coach called the pitches. His junior and senior years he played 3B and 1B. 

In Legion his coach trusted him to call the game.  However, when some of the other players were behind the plate the Legion coach would call the pitches.  It depended on how much he trusted the catcher behind the plate to make the right call.

In college (JuCo & D2) the coaches made the call.

coach2709 posted:

Wesleythecacther posted:

sportsmomof3 posted:

I want to find out what you guys think.  Who should be calling the pitches during a game, the pitching coach, catching coach, head coach or catcher?  Just want some feedback on what happens in your neck of the woods.

For my high school, our pitching coach calls the pitches, doesn't mean that the pitcher throws what I give him the sign to throw, he might throw a change up when I call curve, or a fastball sometimes before I even get the chance to give him a sign he is already in the windup delivering to the plate.

So do you and / or the pitching coach say anything to him?  I know if I'm catching we will have a nice heart to heart about me knowing what's coming so I could do the best for him to buy strikes on border pitches.  If you're trying to figure out what pitch it is midflight you're not going to do a very good job of sticking pitches.  But if you're able to catch him with little problem and not knowing what's coming then he may not be very good.

Well, he just told me that he doesn't throw what I give him the sign for, so I can't do much now, regular season is over, we have Districts tomorrow and I am not catching that game because we need someone to play first. I sometimes do have trouble sticking the pitches, but I was able to do it most of the time by reading what it was out of his hand. Also, check out this video that I just uploaded: https://youtu.be/Vuhg5M0bSQg

I'm going to the thread you have in catching to comment on the video so we don't get off track here.

Somebody needs to have a talk with this guy because he's hurting the team.  If you're not sticking pitches because you're not sure what they are then he's taking away strikes from himself and the team.  Plus the chances of a wild pitch (I can't call it a passed ball when he doesn't let you know what's coming) go up by a lot if you don't know. 

kandkfunk posted:

…Although my husband is making the calls, he's being informed by the scouting reports the team has on the opposing batters….

 

If you could, would you post one of those scouting reports?

cabbagedad posted:

This is a discussion/debate that comes up fairly often here.  As some have pointed out, most HS and college programs have a coach call pitches and there are many valid reasons.  Will your HS son catcher actually be up on scouting reports and spray charts of opponents as much as the most qualified coach on staff?  Even if he is, will his other responsibilities suffer a bit in order for him to keep track of all this?  The catcher has so many responsibilities and things to keep track of without calling pitches.  How many HS kids are really equipped to add that and put the team in a better position to win than if that qualified coach was calling? …

 

Many VALID reasons or many reasons? I suppose a lot has to do with what one considers valid reasons.

 

How many HS teams scout every game and how many actually have access to an opponent’s spray charts? I know our coaches have sometimes scouted teams in tournaments and playoffs when they can, but other than that there isn’t a whole lot of scouting going on. I’ve been doing HSV for a good while now and have never once see a scatter chart for any opponent other than occasionally when we’ve played a team a 2^nd or 3^rd time, and then its only for the games we’ve played against them.

 

What does the catcher have to keep track of that the person calling the pitches in the dugout doesn’t have to?

 

I don’t know for sure what percentage of HS catchers calling pitches would put the team in a better position to win if they were all allowed to call the games themselves, but on the other hand how does anyone know for sure what percentage wouldn’t do at least an equal or better job?

 

I guess much of how a person feels about it depends on how much s/he feels the game is impacted by the calling of the pitches and I’m sure that varies from pitcher to pitcher, game to game, and situation to situation. Personally, I don’t think the pitches and locations called impact the game nearly as much as the pitcher’s ability to execute the pitch correctly, and I haven’t seen many HS pitchers can do that even half the time. Unfortunately, since there are no do overs there’s no way to test anyone’s philosophy on it.

Does anyone want to share their perspective on how they call pitches from beginning to end?  Sounds like some folks will point towards spray charts while others will point towards situations.  However, assuming you don't have good spray charts and it is the beginning of the game - what do you call?  Are you trying to set up the batter based on the pitcher's arsenal?  First pitch FB strikes trying to set up for an eventual 3rd strike change-up?  throwing outside early in the AB and then come inside for the KO?  Have the pitcher throw an assortment early on and see which pitches seem to be working better than others?  Ask the pitcher outright after 1st inning what he thinks is working?  Relative bat speed of the batter versus how fast the FB is that day?  I would think for a large percentage of high school pitchers, simply throwing a solid FB is priority #1 followed by some FB location/changes.  If you have a pitcher with 3 pitches that he commands, then I guess calling pitches may get a little complicated, but the fewer pitches they command, the simpler life becomes.  At times I would suggest letting the pitcher decide what his best pitch is (best pitch that particular outing) and let him throw that pitch (tailing FB low outside for strike seems to work well in a lot of situations).

2017 has pitches called by pitching coach and they seem to have some shared appreciation for the pitches chosen.  That said, there were time when 2017 said a certain pitch just wasn't working well enough to be effective - or he simply felt that it wasn't working - and as a result did not have 100% confidence in the delivery of that pitch.  I realize that there may be multiple reasons why a coach calls a pitch and that there is simply not time to "explain" his reasoning to the pitcher, but to never allow the pitcher to shake off a pitch seems a little counter-productive assuming you have some level of confidence in the pitcher.

I believe it's hard for the catcher to concentrate on receiving and blocking and everything he has to do and still see the hitters swing. When I'm calling pitches I record everything I see in his swing. From swinging around the ball to leaning over the plate to watch a low and away FB out of the zone. The catcher can't diagnose the swing and concentrate on the game.

As far as spray charts go, it's hard to get a good read on where to pitch a hitter if you don't know the location of the pitch on the spray chart. When calling pitches I am looking for holes in the swing more than anything. But like you said, if you can't hit spots it's all for naught.

Interesting discussion...couple of thoughts.  Our pitching coach (PC)calls the pitches.  Pitcher has the approved authority to shake it off if he see's something differently.  Maybe he is having trouble feeling a pitch or hitting his spots.  The discussion between the PC and pitcher regarding those pitches he shakes off occurs between innings or if the PC see him shaking off more than occasionally he will call time and go figure out what the issue is.  

My personal opinion is that this provides the best teaching environment with the least amount of pressure on the players.  In HS we want the pitcher and catchers to focus on execution and not become overwhelmed with strategy.  If we call a fastball on 0-2 and it leaks over the plate and gets taken for a ride the pitcher learns that they need to improve location execution and they can do that.  The pitcher and the catcher learn what we believe (assuming we are as smart as we think we are) SHOULD be thrown in a given situation at a given time of the game against a given batter.  As they grow if they continue to play they will experience different philosophies from aggressive to overly careful and some will work for them and they will look like a Cy Young winner and some will not and they will begin to recognize what works for them.  If the PC is doing their job they are also explaining the "Why" of the pitch selection.

Example:  Last week we were coming through the line up the 2nd time and the pitcher was facing the 4 hitter with 2 outs and no one on base in a 0-0 game.  Four hitter is 6'3" 225 and is not a bit fat, drove a low outside 1st pitch fastball into center for a single in the first.  BUT he is also aggressive and likes to hit early in the count.  This time the PC works speeds and achieved a 3-2 count and called a curve in the dirt.   Ball bounced in the dirt, catcher blocked it batter swung so hard he almost fell, tagged out happy ending.  In between innings PC told the pitcher why this was the right pitch..."In my mind that was an intentional walk with a high upside, what we did not want to do was give 4 a pitch he could drive for a double or worse with 2 outs".  Once the pitcher has heard enough "Whys" they are thinking the pitch before the call is made.

When they are successful and they learn, when they fail they learn and at the end of the day they get accolades when they pitch well and the PC is to blame if they get hit hard...

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Does anyone want to share their perspective on how they call pitches from beginning to end?  Sounds like some folks will point towards spray charts while others will point towards situations.  However, assuming you don't have good spray charts and it is the beginning of the game - what do you call?  Are you trying to set up the batter based on the pitcher's arsenal?  First pitch FB strikes trying to set up for an eventual 3rd strike change-up?  throwing outside early in the AB and then come inside for the KO?  Have the pitcher throw an assortment early on and see which pitches seem to be working better than others?  Ask the pitcher outright after 1st inning what he thinks is working?  Relative bat speed of the batter versus how fast the FB is that day?  I would think for a large percentage of high school pitchers, simply throwing a solid FB is priority #1 followed by some FB location/changes.  If you have a pitcher with 3 pitches that he commands, then I guess calling pitches may get a little complicated, but the fewer pitches they command, the simpler life becomes.  At times I would suggest letting the pitcher decide what his best pitch is (best pitch that particular outing) and let him throw that pitch (tailing FB low outside for strike seems to work well in a lot of situations).

2017 has pitches called by pitching coach and they seem to have some shared appreciation for the pitches chosen.  That said, there were time when 2017 said a certain pitch just wasn't working well enough to be effective - or he simply felt that it wasn't working - and as a result did not have 100% confidence in the delivery of that pitch.  I realize that there may be multiple reasons why a coach calls a pitch and that there is simply not time to "explain" his reasoning to the pitcher, but to never allow the pitcher to shake off a pitch seems a little counter-productive assuming you have some level of confidence in the pitcher.

Ok, in short here is what I try to do. You should know from warming up in the bull pen what his best pitch is. Most of our pitchers have 3 pitches. FB, CB, and CU. We get ahead with good location FB. We want to see the batters swing and see where the holes in his swing are. If we are hitting spots then this makes life easy. If not we have to call a lot of good location GB and try to keep the ball low. We pitch a batter based on where we think the weak spots in his swing are. Change speeds and hit spots are key of course.

Stats4Gnats posted:

kandkfunk posted:

…Although my husband is making the calls, he's being informed by the scouting reports the team has on the opposing batters….

 

If you could, would you post one of those scouting reports?

I don't, because although my husband is a coach, I am also a mom of a player and that is my first role. My job is not to coach or in any way be a part of that side of the team.

We do have people that scout teams ahead of time. Sometimes it's the coaches themselves, if we don't have a game when an upcoming team does, and sometimes it's other people the coaches trust. They also have their historical knowledge of players from previous years. There may be a couple kids on a roster that the coaches aren't familiar with, but most of the varsity kids are there for 2, 3 or 4 years, plus summer ball, so the coaches develop a lot of info on a player over time. We also play 2-3 game series with every team and all games are in a row. By the Friday game, the coaches have a lot of data on each hitter. We have an assistant coach sitting next to the coach calling pitches with all the charts and information. The coach calls the pitch. Not a big deal and not any different than any other varsity team I've ever encountered. We have one pitcher that can call his own game, but it is definitely the pitcher calling the game and not the catcher. The catcher will call a pitch and the pitcher will shake him off until he gets the signal he wants. It takes just as long as the coach calling the game.

Now, the pitchers being able to hit the called pitch is a whole other issue and will be an issue regardless of who is calling the pitches.

When I watch a college game or HS game, I enjoy watching the coach "flash" the sign to the catcher. It is predictable. The catcher, however knows the movement of his pitcher pitches and can adjust based on the tempo. The majority of pitchers are effective when they work quick, infielders on their toes and his defense is ready.

Realizing only a few hitters are like Roberto, Mays and Aaron. They often missed on purpose to receive the same pitch again.

Bob

Catchers don't call games anymore at any level. In unimportance sometimes at the hs level. In MLB depending on philosophy of the club sometimes catchers call games after thorough meeting earlier with pitcher and coach agreeing how to attack hitters. At the same time if meester coach wants a certain pitch at any given time he will call it.  I did at times have my cat archers call pitches but we met every inning while we were batting to discuss the next innings hitters and how we wanted to approach them. 

Stats4Gnats posted:

cabbagedad posted:

This is a discussion/debate that comes up fairly often here.  As some have pointed out, most HS and college programs have a coach call pitches and there are many valid reasons.  Will your HS son catcher actually be up on scouting reports and spray charts of opponents as much as the most qualified coach on staff?  Even if he is, will his other responsibilities suffer a bit in order for him to keep track of all this?  The catcher has so many responsibilities and things to keep track of without calling pitches.  How many HS kids are really equipped to add that and put the team in a better position to win than if that qualified coach was calling? …

 

Many VALID reasons or many reasons? I suppose a lot has to do with what one considers valid reasons.

 

How many HS teams scout every game and how many actually have access to an opponent’s spray charts? I know our coaches have sometimes scouted teams in tournaments and playoffs when they can, but other than that there isn’t a whole lot of scouting going on. I’ve been doing HSV for a good while now and have never once see a scatter chart for any opponent other than occasionally when we’ve played a team a 2^nd or 3^rd time, and then its only for the games we’ve played against them.

 

What does the catcher have to keep track of that the person calling the pitches in the dugout doesn’t have to?

 

I don’t know for sure what percentage of HS catchers calling pitches would put the team in a better position to win if they were all allowed to call the games themselves, but on the other hand how does anyone know for sure what percentage wouldn’t do at least an equal or better job?

 

I guess much of how a person feels about it depends on how much s/he feels the game is impacted by the calling of the pitches and I’m sure that varies from pitcher to pitcher, game to game, and situation to situation. Personally, I don’t think the pitches and locations called impact the game nearly as much as the pitcher’s ability to execute the pitch correctly, and I haven’t seen many HS pitchers can do that even half the time. Unfortunately, since there are no do overs there’s no way to test anyone’s philosophy on it.

Well, Stats, I'm certainly not surprised that you came through with yet another thinly veiled insult with your "many VALID reasons or many reasons? wink, wink" remark.

Interesting that you give HS P's virtually no credit for being able to reasonably locate pitches yet you are a consistent proponent of giving HS catchers the added responsibility of calling pitches.  What does the catcher have to keep track of otherwise?  Total awareness of and holding runners, framing fringe pitches, communicate signs to IF's for backpicks, properly anticipate and block balls in the dirt, field bunts and be field general on those he can't get, position cuts and make split second cut/relay decisions early enough, back up IF throws to first situationally, help IF's on pop flies near fence, maintain a stream of communication from the dugout, relay defensive plays, be in tune with P and help keep him in best possible mindset to perform, maintain a favorable working relationship with PU, just to name a few. 

Calling pitches brings into account the added tasks of knowing hitter tendencies, identifying holes in swing, seeing hitter's timing on previous pitches, knowing situationally what offense is trying to execute and calling pitches to defend that, awareness of what pitches are working for that P that day, calling pitches and locations that are count and situation appropriate, recalling history of better hitters from past seasons and earlier games, etc., etc.

But I'm sure you are right.  We should have all HS catchers call the games.  Boy, HS catchers must be WAY smarter, more advanced and more competent than HS pitchers. 

The catcher has, by far, the most responsibilities on the field.  As others have pointed out, some of the better ones can also call a good game.  But even those aren't in the position to take into account everything in a given situation as well as a qualified coach who is specifically tasked to do so.  Typically, neither are perfect.  Most often, one puts the HS team in a better position to win and the teenage HS P and C in a better position to play and execute to the best of their abilities.  

The large majority of better HS and college programs call pitches from the dugout.  If only they had someone smarter than them, like you, to help them realize the error in their ways...  Don't you have a database of all HC's stored somewhere?  Maybe you can send them all a wink, wink.

I never get why this is such a "hot button" for people. Why do they think a HS kid should be calling games? I've had 2 catchers go D1 the past few years, and never did a coach asked if they called their own game. If a college catcher can receive and rake, I don't see him dropping 15 rounds based on the fact his coaches called the game.

I'm not sure anyone cares as much as message boards.

I live in VA & recently heard an interview on MLB Radio with Billy Wagner who is now a HS coach in VA. He was asked on this issue & was adamant about letting his kids call their own & learn the game. The focus was clearly on player development from arguably the top LH Reliever to ever toss it. Winning was secondary to him although the team was well over 500% at the time of the interview (about a month ago).

From my experience it is mostly a case of the coach not having the ability to tuck his ego in his back pocket & let the kids play & learn how to play from their mistakes. I got paid to pitch for 7 years & yes, I have called some from time to time & this is typically in a big spot & I will send one in or work a sequence, but for the most part we let them go at it & then if something comes up we will review. It is the coolest thing to have your 13U catcher come to you after an inning & ask if you thought the 2-2 pitch that was smoked was the right pitch or not. Often it was & sometimes you give the hitter credit. If we feel it was not we can discuss why . The point is that the pitcher learns to have a feel & the catcher has to think.

We had our shot & now it is their turn. Let them go. 

Steve A. posted:

From my experience it is mostly a case of the coach not having the ability to tuck his ego in his back pocket & let the kids play & learn how to play from their mistakes.

Completely disagree, but to each their own.

ironhorse posted:

Steve A. posted:

From my experience it is mostly a case of the coach not having the ability to tuck his ego in his back pocket & let the kids play & learn how to play from their mistakes.

Completely disagree, but to each their own.

I expect my son's HS coach to play to win. Every game.  And that most likely means he calls the pitches.  Just get the calls in quick so kids can play with tempo.

Save the development focus for the travel teams when you pay to get developed.

ironhorse posted:

Steve A. posted:

From my experience it is mostly a case of the coach not having the ability to tuck his ego in his back pocket & let the kids play & learn how to play from their mistakes.

Completely disagree, but to each their own.

Glad my kid will not play for you. Let me guess. You are a HS coach obsessed with your W/L record. You mostly think of it as your record & control every aspect of every game down to every pitch called. A pitcher of yours would not even consider shaking a sign.......Am I close??    

Steve A. posted:

ironhorse posted:

Steve A. posted:

From my experience it is mostly a case of the coach not having the ability to tuck his ego in his back pocket & let the kids play & learn how to play from their mistakes.

Completely disagree, but to each their own.

Glad my kid will not play for you. Let me guess. You are a HS coach obsessed with your W/L record. You mostly think of it as your record & control every aspect of every game down to every pitch called. A pitcher of yours would not even consider shaking a sign.......Am I close??    

Not even close. Comically far off, but since I have a different opinion than you it's probably easier for you to see me that way, so I understand. And judging by your closed-mindedness that your way must be right because you got paid to pitch and you coach youth select ball , I'm glad your kid won't be playing for me either.

To me, who is calling pitches can depend on several things, many that are mentioned above.

Much depends on who you have catching and who you have pitching.  I have had catchers that called pitches just as good as I would have.  Maybe even better because they have the advantage of seeing exactly what the pitcher has working best that game.  Also I have had pitchers that are excellent and calling their own pitches.  Even then we wanted to make sure we had the ability to call pityches when we wanted, so our catchers always glanced into the dugout.   sometimes we would actually make our signs easy to steal, so in a big situation we could give the other dugout a pitch different than what was coming.  And we always had our bench trying to steal the opponents signs.  We all have seen catchers and pitchers that actually know more about the game than the coach calling the pitches.

All that said, the majority of catchers and pitchers don't have this ability and feel for things.  In that case, it is best if a coach calls the pitches.  When you are at a level that you have advanced scouting reports it can really help if the catcher, pitcher and coach work together.  This is where a coach has the advantage in calling pitches because he has that info at his finger tips.

Once again, I have seen pitchers and catchers get on the same page and call a great game.  I have seen coaches that call a great game.  Also, I have seen pitchers, catchers and coaches that have no idea what they are doing.

Actually you could go on forever talking about the reasons why coaches or catchers call a game. But most coaches that have a special catcher understand that they both are on the same page nearly all the time.  A good catcher and a good coach is a great combination, no matter who is calling the pitches.

If 95% of amateur baseball calls pitches (meaning HS and college really), and 99% of amateur football calls plays (meaning HS and college really), are 95-99% of all coaches simply fueled by ego?

That's ignorant.

Go44dad posted:

ironhorse posted:

Steve A. posted:

From my experience it is mostly a case of the coach not having the ability to tuck his ego in his back pocket & let the kids play & learn how to play from their mistakes.

Completely disagree, but to each their own.

I expect my son's HS coach to play to win. Every game.  And that most likely means he calls the pitches.  Just get the calls in quick so kids can play with tempo.

Save the development focus for the travel teams when you pay to get developed.

Let me ask you a couple questions .Let's say your son is a pitcher. Would he be a better off having been on the mound for 4 years with a coach who was OK with letting him shake & throw his own game or simply nodding like a robot for fear of chapping the coach?

I totally understand playing to win & get it. I simply have a differing take on it & understand the fact that this is HS baseball & 1 team wins the State Championship & the rest of them are really irrelevant in terms of Win / Loss records as the years go by. In short, nobody really gives a rip if your team went 18-6, 14-14 or 6-14 within about 10 minutes after the last game.