What would you say the average fastball speed for a varsity high school pitcher would be?
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78.
There is so much misinformation out there regarding pitching speed. So many parents think their kid must be throwing 86-87 when it's really..
78.
There is so much misinformation out there regarding pitching speed. So many parents think their kid must be throwing 86-87 when it's really..
78.
BUM
Mine estimate/guestimate would be lower...What's sup bro?
Shep
Mine estimate/guestimate would be lower...What's sup bro?
Shep
Shepster,
I'm not proclaiming to be a qualified expert on the subject, but I have seen tons of pitchers all over the West coast, in games and camps, etc., and have perused thousands of PG's profiles..mostly to see where my son stacks up. 78 seems about right. It might be lower than that, but I doubt seriously it's any higher.
Check out Baseball America's website. There's an article on the Area Code games from last year.. how even the elite pitchers barely scraped by the low 80's. One thing's for sure, there's a lot of parents and kids who way-overestimate their son's speed.
My own friend estimated his son at 85 and we did a tournament in Las Vegas and he was clocked on the Stalker at 75. (But I already knew he was full of it anyway, that's why he's my friend!)
I'm not proclaiming to be a qualified expert on the subject, but I have seen tons of pitchers all over the West coast, in games and camps, etc., and have perused thousands of PG's profiles..mostly to see where my son stacks up. 78 seems about right. It might be lower than that, but I doubt seriously it's any higher.
Check out Baseball America's website. There's an article on the Area Code games from last year.. how even the elite pitchers barely scraped by the low 80's. One thing's for sure, there's a lot of parents and kids who way-overestimate their son's speed.
My own friend estimated his son at 85 and we did a tournament in Las Vegas and he was clocked on the Stalker at 75. (But I already knew he was full of it anyway, that's why he's my friend!)
Bum,
That info you based your 78MPH sounds good.
You would have to make East Coast circuit to understand why I said my estimate/guestimate is a little lower.
Probably differs geographically anyway. Don't you think?
Shepster
That info you based your 78MPH sounds good.
You would have to make East Coast circuit to understand why I said my estimate/guestimate is a little lower.
Probably differs geographically anyway. Don't you think?
Shepster
Shepster,
Geography certain plays a part. Warm-weather states where kids are able to long-toss regularly obviously have a huge advantage. I'm up in Washington State on the sunny east side (even though my tag says "Virgin Islands") where winters are pretty mild so we're about average. Lots of good pitching around here.. how about your neck of the woods?
Geography certain plays a part. Warm-weather states where kids are able to long-toss regularly obviously have a huge advantage. I'm up in Washington State on the sunny east side (even though my tag says "Virgin Islands") where winters are pretty mild so we're about average. Lots of good pitching around here.. how about your neck of the woods?
Weather is pretty warm down this way. Pitchers have a chance to pitch year-round here in FL.
Thanks for asking sir.
Shep
Thanks for asking sir.
Shep
hey shep if ya ever get to see pace (nwfl) team play how about putin a gun on their two lefty pitchers I wanna know what they throw...Its not 78 I bet.
more like 85 to 90 for a lefty, I want someone to prove me wrong....we have to face them every year.
Rambler
Will PM ya when I see them a little later.
Coach called me from Pace last week.
3rd baseman tough as nails 5tool player.
Shep
Will PM ya when I see them a little later.
Coach called me from Pace last week.
3rd baseman tough as nails 5tool player.
Shep
We have one kid on our team regularly clocked at 89, has peaked at 92. A second kid (who unfortunately recently transferred out) regularly at 84, peaked at 87. Next four pitchers all regularly 80-81, peak at 84. Another at 78, peaks at 80. Guys who throw sub-80 are on the JV squad. Probably our top JV pitcher is a freshman lefty going at 76-78 with good movement and a solid breaking pitch.
Our leading competition in the 7-team district has a kid who was clocked up to 88, and that was a year ago. I look for him to hit 90 this year, though his typical speed is probably still mid-80's. A third team has a kid who throws 84-85, peaks at 88, with a nasty curve to go with it. A fourth team has a lefty clocked as high as 90 but more typically 86.
Not far from us, Godwin High and Hermitage High squared off last year with two kids throwing 90-plus, both drafted last June. Godwin has a senior this year in the Perfect Game/Baseball America top 100 and I think he tops 90, too; he's heading to Clemson next year. These are just the ones I know about personally; I am sure there are more in the area.
All of these are on JUGS guns, several different guns at several different games, indoor training facilities, showcase camps and tourneys. Doubt it if you want, but pro scouts, college coaches, Perfect Game scouts, Junior Olympics scouts and others can't all be wrong.
In our area, a kid relying on a 78 mph fastball had better have some pretty tough other stuff, Maddux-like control, and a good defensive team behind him. 78 may have been "average" back in my day, but not today.
With all due respect, if you think 78 is the average and you think anyone claiming to be in the 80's is just bragging, you are wrong. These kids are not like we were 25-30 years ago. They don't play football in the fall and basketball in the winter. They play baseball year round and they get darned good instruction as well as baseball-specific conditioning and weight training.
'Round these parts, 78 is well below average for the guys who actually get to pitch on a varsity level, and I would expect to see a 78 mph fastball tatooed pretty regularly.
Our leading competition in the 7-team district has a kid who was clocked up to 88, and that was a year ago. I look for him to hit 90 this year, though his typical speed is probably still mid-80's. A third team has a kid who throws 84-85, peaks at 88, with a nasty curve to go with it. A fourth team has a lefty clocked as high as 90 but more typically 86.
Not far from us, Godwin High and Hermitage High squared off last year with two kids throwing 90-plus, both drafted last June. Godwin has a senior this year in the Perfect Game/Baseball America top 100 and I think he tops 90, too; he's heading to Clemson next year. These are just the ones I know about personally; I am sure there are more in the area.
All of these are on JUGS guns, several different guns at several different games, indoor training facilities, showcase camps and tourneys. Doubt it if you want, but pro scouts, college coaches, Perfect Game scouts, Junior Olympics scouts and others can't all be wrong.
In our area, a kid relying on a 78 mph fastball had better have some pretty tough other stuff, Maddux-like control, and a good defensive team behind him. 78 may have been "average" back in my day, but not today.
With all due respect, if you think 78 is the average and you think anyone claiming to be in the 80's is just bragging, you are wrong. These kids are not like we were 25-30 years ago. They don't play football in the fall and basketball in the winter. They play baseball year round and they get darned good instruction as well as baseball-specific conditioning and weight training.
'Round these parts, 78 is well below average for the guys who actually get to pitch on a varsity level, and I would expect to see a 78 mph fastball tatooed pretty regularly.
well I can tell you they are loaded,the sophmore lefty is there best pitcher in my opinion. My son and him dueled it out all year last yr on freshman team. And Caleb gindl can Mash and bring the heat just needs to learn control. Who is playing 3rd now I cant remember..
I have seen several HS pitchers in the High 80s low 90s.
Son faced a tall LHP playing for Moon Township Tigers in PA 3 years ago. He was drafted by the Pirates out of HS and was clocked at 92.
Another guy also a LHP was clocked at 90-92 untill he got sick in a tourney in Cuba. He also got drafted by the Pirates. Both started in Bradenton FL
I clocked a 16 yo guy who played for a team coached by Don Petrie called the Detroit Cobras at 92.
There are a several guys that throw hard at 16-18. I know a lot more locally that threw 85_ at 15/16 and touch 90 at 18.
Do you need to throw that hard ? No. My son got his 1st MVP award as a freshman on the varsity team and he was only throwing 78/80 at the time. He has given up 5 home runs since he was 10 and I remember every one of them. Usually an offspeed that didn't break sharply not the FB.
Son faced a tall LHP playing for Moon Township Tigers in PA 3 years ago. He was drafted by the Pirates out of HS and was clocked at 92.
Another guy also a LHP was clocked at 90-92 untill he got sick in a tourney in Cuba. He also got drafted by the Pirates. Both started in Bradenton FL
I clocked a 16 yo guy who played for a team coached by Don Petrie called the Detroit Cobras at 92.
There are a several guys that throw hard at 16-18. I know a lot more locally that threw 85_ at 15/16 and touch 90 at 18.
Do you need to throw that hard ? No. My son got his 1st MVP award as a freshman on the varsity team and he was only throwing 78/80 at the time. He has given up 5 home runs since he was 10 and I remember every one of them. Usually an offspeed that didn't break sharply not the FB.
I dont know about the rest of country,but dont think you will go far with a fastball here in nwfl.. You better have another goooood pitch to go with it or you will get creamed...
I think if you listen to some top D1 NCAA schools you will see some low 80s pitchers who rock.
R J Swindel was barely breaking 80 and was drafted in his JR year at CSU.
His 1st year in the minors he was 7-2.
R J Swindel was barely breaking 80 and was drafted in his JR year at CSU.
His 1st year in the minors he was 7-2.
Yea I will agree but everyone is not greg Maddox and he certainly doesnt live with just a fastball.
I am not knocking control pitchers. Every pitcher should have that command I am just saying that this area has some very strong teams in it that will eat a 90 mph fastball..I know no one believes that but a dominate pitcher here and everywhere has to keep the batters guessing, have good command of another pitch or he will get rocked.
I agree you need both. The FB is the main pitch off which everything else works.
I was actually quite surprised to listen to some top ten schools and hear how many they called soft throwers in the low 80s.
In our province pitchers are limited to 12 outs because of the dominance of some pitchers. There is such a wide range of talent on HS teams. We had 24 teams in our zone and the pitchers were very good. A few drafted and many US college guys. We played the championship for Ontario in The Jays Skydome.
I was actually quite surprised to listen to some top ten schools and hear how many they called soft throwers in the low 80s.
In our province pitchers are limited to 12 outs because of the dominance of some pitchers. There is such a wide range of talent on HS teams. We had 24 teams in our zone and the pitchers were very good. A few drafted and many US college guys. We played the championship for Ontario in The Jays Skydome.
I certainly agree that you need to know how to pitch. Today's varsity high school lineup can catch up to any fastball, if that's all you throw, particularly if you make a habit of putting it in the middle of the plate. Florida doesn't have a monopoly on good hitters, that's for sure.
But the original question was, what speed are people throwing in HS? And my point was, those who think 78 is "average" and who think those claiming higher numbers are making stuff up are just plain wrong.
A kid who wants to pitch for his high school varsity team would be well advised to spend his early teen years working on mechanics and conditioning with an eye towards developing his fastball FIRST. Too many kids fall in love with the curve ball at a young age, because it racks up a lot of K's against the younger hitters -- with the result that they don't develop their velocity as they could. You can, and from the perspective of arm health really should, wait until age 14 or later to work on your breaking pitch. (A good change-up should come before a curve, anyway.)
The truth is, you won't get much of a look from a HS varsity coach at tryouts unless you're above 80, and if you want to do more than warm the bullpen bench, 83-84 looks to me to be the dividing line between those who start regularly and those who see limited if any action. (You can take off a few mph for lefties, though.) Even at those fastball speeds, you need to have at least one good offspeed pitch and decent command. But you likely won't get a second look if you can't at least establish a respectable fastball.
But the original question was, what speed are people throwing in HS? And my point was, those who think 78 is "average" and who think those claiming higher numbers are making stuff up are just plain wrong.
A kid who wants to pitch for his high school varsity team would be well advised to spend his early teen years working on mechanics and conditioning with an eye towards developing his fastball FIRST. Too many kids fall in love with the curve ball at a young age, because it racks up a lot of K's against the younger hitters -- with the result that they don't develop their velocity as they could. You can, and from the perspective of arm health really should, wait until age 14 or later to work on your breaking pitch. (A good change-up should come before a curve, anyway.)
The truth is, you won't get much of a look from a HS varsity coach at tryouts unless you're above 80, and if you want to do more than warm the bullpen bench, 83-84 looks to me to be the dividing line between those who start regularly and those who see limited if any action. (You can take off a few mph for lefties, though.) Even at those fastball speeds, you need to have at least one good offspeed pitch and decent command. But you likely won't get a second look if you can't at least establish a respectable fastball.
SHEPSter
you make note of HS 3b who is a "5 tool" player
Thats sounds a bit odd since most third sackers do not possess great foot speed
Sometimes the term "5 tool player" gets thrown around too loosely
you make note of HS 3b who is a "5 tool" player
Thats sounds a bit odd since most third sackers do not possess great foot speed
Sometimes the term "5 tool player" gets thrown around too loosely
mniterambler,
If you're from North Florida, I believe Shep is talking about the 3B from Pace in Miami.
The kid from Miami is one of the best prospects in the country, probable 1st rounder. He's a 4 tool guy!
It's always a bit of a stretch to grade a high school player a Major League average or above average hitter, but if you give him that, he only lacks MLB speed. Power, arm, field are all present above average tools in this kid. He's real good!
If you're from North Florida, I believe Shep is talking about the 3B from Pace in Miami.
The kid from Miami is one of the best prospects in the country, probable 1st rounder. He's a 4 tool guy!
It's always a bit of a stretch to grade a high school player a Major League average or above average hitter, but if you give him that, he only lacks MLB speed. Power, arm, field are all present above average tools in this kid. He's real good!
I don't think some parents are "making stuff up". It's more benign than that. There's just a general tendency to overestimate speed. Parents are certainly not going to underestimate speed.
I catch myself doing it sometimes. If my brother asks me how fast my son is, I'll give him the fastest read time on the warmest day on a Jugs, not cruising speed in the wind at sea level on a Bushnell.
Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert..just a pop who's been around.
I'd definitely recommend if you want to see some "average" high school pitch speeds, check PG's listings for some of the state showcases.
I catch myself doing it sometimes. If my brother asks me how fast my son is, I'll give him the fastest read time on the warmest day on a Jugs, not cruising speed in the wind at sea level on a Bushnell.
Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert..just a pop who's been around.
I'd definitely recommend if you want to see some "average" high school pitch speeds, check PG's listings for some of the state showcases.
Midlo Dad,
By the way. Washington State is one of the top states in the country for drafted pitchers. See Baseball America. With all due respect to Virginia, we're not chuckin logs up here. All the pitchers on my son's team are also 80+.
But perhaps Virginia and Washington are atypical, don't you think? Better pitchers on average? If so, then that doesn't address the original question..what is the average?
By the way. Washington State is one of the top states in the country for drafted pitchers. See Baseball America. With all due respect to Virginia, we're not chuckin logs up here. All the pitchers on my son's team are also 80+.
But perhaps Virginia and Washington are atypical, don't you think? Better pitchers on average? If so, then that doesn't address the original question..what is the average?
I'm not bragging about VA in particular. My expectation would be that Washington state, and every other state for that matter, would have the same thing going on. That certainly has been my observation in going to travel tourneys the last few years. So, it kind of surprised me to see people claiming that the average HS pitcher only throws 78. I don't know where that would be the case. Certainly no where I know of.
I agree midlo not here either except for 4 or 5 starter. Jerry I think that is probably what shep is talking about, Although I think he is looking at the wrong pace High school. Better come north my friend. They will see yall in sarasota I am sure of that.
Pace Monsigner? Opa Locko
Miami ????
Shep
Miami ????
Shep
I am in north florida shep I think you are talkin about monsignor pace,,by the way nephew was gonna get to play them tommorrow but mon pace lost in basketball, I am talkin about pace fl in panhandle.
Got cha bro.
BTW, since he is no secret the player I am talking about in Miami is Chris Marrero who does run about a 6.8 60yd dash too
Don't get your way often on panhandle side but Coachric has told me about several of those LH pitchers you are referring to and also heard from another what you said about those left-handers
We PM ya this weekend bro. Shep
BTW, since he is no secret the player I am talking about in Miami is Chris Marrero who does run about a 6.8 60yd dash too
Don't get your way often on panhandle side but Coachric has told me about several of those LH pitchers you are referring to and also heard from another what you said about those left-handers
We PM ya this weekend bro. Shep
Nice talkin to ya again shep, I just wanted to clarify that, and 6.8 aint all that fast we have that here too... even mine runs that.
Ran these numbers on my excel spreadsheet. Looked at PG state showcases for Western Ma., Colorado, Missouri, and Fl. Panhandle and here are the results:
Western Mass. RHP AVG. 78.8; LHP AVG. 79.7; OVERALL 79
Colorado RHP AVG. 81.7; LHP AVG. 75.5; OVERALL 78.7
Missouri RHP AVG. 82.3; LHP AVG. 81.8; OVERALL 82.2
Florida Panhandle RHP AVG. 81; No LHP listed.
OVERALL AVERAGE SPEED FOR ALL: 80.7
These are kids whose parents think they're good enough for a showcase event. If 80.7 is average for these, my guess of 78 is not too far off the mark for the country overall.
Or am I way off-base?
Western Mass. RHP AVG. 78.8; LHP AVG. 79.7; OVERALL 79
Colorado RHP AVG. 81.7; LHP AVG. 75.5; OVERALL 78.7
Missouri RHP AVG. 82.3; LHP AVG. 81.8; OVERALL 82.2
Florida Panhandle RHP AVG. 81; No LHP listed.
OVERALL AVERAGE SPEED FOR ALL: 80.7
These are kids whose parents think they're good enough for a showcase event. If 80.7 is average for these, my guess of 78 is not too far off the mark for the country overall.
Or am I way off-base?
that may be true but how many that attend the showcases start for high school varsity and how many wanna be are there.. who had a gun at jr olympic trials this year. Several underclassmen from here won that tournament and arnt the #1 starters for varsity here. although alot are close.
Bum,
Nice work! To get yet another view add the PG National to the data. Yes, they are many of the best, but they're all high schhol kids. These types do need to be added to the study.
I have no real way of knowing, but would guess somewhere around 80-81 mph would be average.
I disagree it is the same everywhere. There are certain parts of the country where the average would be higher and possibly other parts of the country the average might be lower.
If you go to Houston, Atlanta, Miami, Southern California, Dallas, etc.etc. You won't find many varsity pitchers topping out at 78 mph. You will find a lot of mid to upper 80s and even some 90+ types every year.
Nice work! To get yet another view add the PG National to the data. Yes, they are many of the best, but they're all high schhol kids. These types do need to be added to the study.
I have no real way of knowing, but would guess somewhere around 80-81 mph would be average.
I disagree it is the same everywhere. There are certain parts of the country where the average would be higher and possibly other parts of the country the average might be lower.
If you go to Houston, Atlanta, Miami, Southern California, Dallas, etc.etc. You won't find many varsity pitchers topping out at 78 mph. You will find a lot of mid to upper 80s and even some 90+ types every year.
You guys have not been in the HS trenches enough and these spreadsheets are based on high level HS baseball players with personal invitations, on draftlists and college lists ETC ETC. Who are you kidding ???
No way in hello operator is the average anywhere near 80-81, Jerry. That must be based on Elite showcases. Just come take a ride with the Shepster to some of these games and you will see what I mean...sometimes I wonder if HS/amateur scouting is where I am supposed to be because it is so boring...Feel much more comfortable doing pro coverage and kinda glad when HS season is over with
IMHO,
Shep
No way in hello operator is the average anywhere near 80-81, Jerry. That must be based on Elite showcases. Just come take a ride with the Shepster to some of these games and you will see what I mean...sometimes I wonder if HS/amateur scouting is where I am supposed to be because it is so boring...Feel much more comfortable doing pro coverage and kinda glad when HS season is over with
IMHO,
Shep
shep
Were you at Jupiter ?--- there were a load of mid 80's and up arms there and darn good pitchers to boot.
Were you at Jupiter ?--- there were a load of mid 80's and up arms there and darn good pitchers to boot.
TR
That's exactly what I mean...These averages are based on events like at Jupiter with Top Prospects.
If you took a poll with HS coaches who are not ill-informed across this country I bet the Average would be alot closer to 75 than 80...Geeze
Must be nice working with all those top HS players if these are the averages, 80-81.
That would be a site for sore eyes and welcomed at times for me because I am not always at these high profile games and find myself in
tin-buck-------two with pitchers throwing 70 and here I am trying to get hitting evaluation and really can't because of deficient pitching !!!
JMHO ! Shep
That's exactly what I mean...These averages are based on events like at Jupiter with Top Prospects.
If you took a poll with HS coaches who are not ill-informed across this country I bet the Average would be alot closer to 75 than 80...Geeze
Must be nice working with all those top HS players if these are the averages, 80-81.
That would be a site for sore eyes and welcomed at times for me because I am not always at these high profile games and find myself in
tin-buck-------two with pitchers throwing 70 and here I am trying to get hitting evaluation and really can't because of deficient pitching !!!
JMHO ! Shep
SHEP
Your problem is not my problem luckily
But note this
One of our best pitched games in Jupiter was by a lefty who hit 79 as his optimum and that was against the Juice
Your problem is not my problem luckily
But note this
One of our best pitched games in Jupiter was by a lefty who hit 79 as his optimum and that was against the Juice
TR
Speaking of juice...Heard anything on Chet's condition of late ?
BTW, 79mph at top tournament is more like it and yes I saw you there TR
Shep
Speaking of juice...Heard anything on Chet's condition of late ?
BTW, 79mph at top tournament is more like it and yes I saw you there TR
Shep
Shep I've lived in the trenches.
The state showcases used in an above post that you’re referring to are open for all high school players (not invite). There is nothing that says they are for the elite only. The purpose is to find a diamond in the rough, to invite to higher level events. What do you mean draft picks? Which draft do you remember 80-81 mph being the average pitcher?
We will be in the trenches again next month at the San Diego Lions tournament, 112 teams. 2,000+ players, most will not be among the “elite” and we will see nearly all of them!
Now if you wish to talk about the high end events… the average would be mid 80s or better. In Jupiter last fall 214 high school pitchers topped out at 88 mph or better in one tournament (average more than three per team). About 100 were 90 or better. If the hurricane had not taken 13 teams that total would have been much higher. In fact it was much higher the previous year when around 150 (if memory serves me) were 90 mph or better. That’s the high level! And no the average was not 80-81. For every 90 there wasn’t a 70.
80-81 is my opinion (maybe a bit higher some places, lower in others), your opinion is 75. I could very well be wrong, but neither one of us could possibly know. No one can answer the question accurately, the information just doesn’t exist. Why is it that you know and others have no idea?
Anyway, if on a 4 man staff a high school has one mid 80s pitcher, it would mean the other three, top at 70mph. For every pitcher who throws 80 mph someone would need to top at 70 to average 75.
I have no way of knowing for sure, but how many high schools have very many varsity pitchers who throw less than 70 mph or an entire staff that can’t throw over 75 mph? I do know to average 75 it means most have to throw less than that.
Maybe others will chime in regarding their part of the country and what they have observed.
How many have pitchers who throw low 80s? I don’t have any idea, but I’m guessing you do for some reason. I just threw out my guess, 80-81 average, none of us really knows. Here was the actual quote
I just know we see a very huge number of 80-85 mph high school pitchers every year. I really didn’t expect to receive an education or reprimand.
I thought your post was very disrespectful. Neither you nor I need to be Mr. Baseball! And in fact, WE definitely are not! JMHO
The state showcases used in an above post that you’re referring to are open for all high school players (not invite). There is nothing that says they are for the elite only. The purpose is to find a diamond in the rough, to invite to higher level events. What do you mean draft picks? Which draft do you remember 80-81 mph being the average pitcher?
We will be in the trenches again next month at the San Diego Lions tournament, 112 teams. 2,000+ players, most will not be among the “elite” and we will see nearly all of them!
Now if you wish to talk about the high end events… the average would be mid 80s or better. In Jupiter last fall 214 high school pitchers topped out at 88 mph or better in one tournament (average more than three per team). About 100 were 90 or better. If the hurricane had not taken 13 teams that total would have been much higher. In fact it was much higher the previous year when around 150 (if memory serves me) were 90 mph or better. That’s the high level! And no the average was not 80-81. For every 90 there wasn’t a 70.
80-81 is my opinion (maybe a bit higher some places, lower in others), your opinion is 75. I could very well be wrong, but neither one of us could possibly know. No one can answer the question accurately, the information just doesn’t exist. Why is it that you know and others have no idea?
Anyway, if on a 4 man staff a high school has one mid 80s pitcher, it would mean the other three, top at 70mph. For every pitcher who throws 80 mph someone would need to top at 70 to average 75.
I have no way of knowing for sure, but how many high schools have very many varsity pitchers who throw less than 70 mph or an entire staff that can’t throw over 75 mph? I do know to average 75 it means most have to throw less than that.
Maybe others will chime in regarding their part of the country and what they have observed.
How many have pitchers who throw low 80s? I don’t have any idea, but I’m guessing you do for some reason. I just threw out my guess, 80-81 average, none of us really knows. Here was the actual quote
quote:I have no real way of knowing, but would guess somewhere around 80-81 mph would be average.
I just know we see a very huge number of 80-85 mph high school pitchers every year. I really didn’t expect to receive an education or reprimand.
I thought your post was very disrespectful. Neither you nor I need to be Mr. Baseball! And in fact, WE definitely are not! JMHO
And you did not say hello Shep? Shame on you !!!
PG
Unless one gets out and sees every game of every team one will never know what the averages are--there is no way you can go, no offense guys, by HS coaches word because most never put a gun on their pitchers and estimate what they throw and then, when you see them they at least 5 MPH slower.
I have learned to take only the word of people I know well when it comes to a pitchers mph.
Unless one gets out and sees every game of every team one will never know what the averages are--there is no way you can go, no offense guys, by HS coaches word because most never put a gun on their pitchers and estimate what they throw and then, when you see them they at least 5 MPH slower.
I have learned to take only the word of people I know well when it comes to a pitchers mph.
