Most kids play travel ball. I’m curious if what I tell kids where I am is consistently true across the country. I tell kids if they’re a D1 prospect the odds are 17u A teams are pursuing you and not the other way around. An exception would be a late bloomer (usually a pitcher) who didn’t get good 16u exposure the previous year.
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RJM,
I think this depends on the region you live. In SoCal there are more D1 players than quality teams, so you still need to pursue the best opportunity. For example the top fall scout teams have tryouts and there are D1 prospects that don't make some of those teams.
In this area the best way to know if you have been recommended to the Area Code tryouts.
@Consultant legacy lives on.
JMO.
You're not wrong but I will agree it's area dependent. In my region (northeast), if you're not a full time varsity starter as a sophomore there's basically no chance of you making a D1 roster barring an abnormal growth spurt or some late velocity development.
The same can't be said in Ca, TX, FL, GA, etc.
More and more it seems a kid is a D1 prospect if his Daddy says he is.
Mine was told he was by a CWS champion HC. That’s when we for sure knew. It was both exciting and a relief. Will always be grateful for that interaction.
@adbono posted:More and more it seems a kid is a D1 prospect if his Daddy says he is.
That's what I told my boys and I got it 100%.
@smokeminside posted:That's what I told my boys and I got it 100%.
100% right or 100% wrong?!?!
You know when D1 coaches ask you to call them.
@baseballhs posted:You know when D1 coaches ask you to call them.
If a potential D1 prospect doesn’t put himself where he can be seen by D1 coaches they won’t be calling. The local Legion coaches tried the propaganda route Legion was all that was needed as travel grew and grew. But the time my son was in high school it was obvious D1 prospects weren’t playing Legion. Legion ball was varsity bench and JV players.
Legion touted the handful of kids who did play and made D1. They didn’t tell the part of the story where these kids were hitting major showcases and roster filling for major PG tournaments.
A pro scout told me my son projected D1 the summer going into senior year, he wasn’t being actively recruited by anyone (although he was a late bloomer). Regular D1’s became interested when he touched 93 mph, P5-D1’s became interested when he hit 97 mph – although this was in juco.
An interesting fact: At 14U my son played on the American Avengers based in the Houston metro. The Avengers became an organization, but this was the original team and the one the founder’s son played on. Out of the 14 regular players, 10 committed D1, 5 of the 10 D1 commits were P5, 8 of the 14 were drafted, 2 have reached MLB and 2 are knocking at AAA.
9 of the 10 D1 commits had PG national rankings (positional or overall) of 500 or lower by HS junior year. The one that didn’t have a PG national ranking didn’t play any PG events. The 4 non D1 commits did play PG events, but weren't ranked. Very small sample size, but a PG national ranking of 500 and below (positional or overall) seems to be a favorable D1 indicator.
also, and It's already been mentioned, but if your son gets an area code invite he's probably a P5-D1 prospect.
Lastly, late blooming is a real thing for some kids. In the group photo my son is 14 years old and on the far right - clearly the least developed. In the photo on the mound he's 6' 5" and barely 19 in juco - so, you never really know...
Son's travel coach who's built his business on coaching and placing or assisting his players land with colleges of all sizes and play baseball. This guy doesn't mince words so to speak.
@baseballhs posted:You know when D1 coaches ask you to call them.
This and this.
@Shoveit4Ks posted:Son's travel coach who's built his business on coaching and placing or assisting his players land with colleges of all sizes and play baseball. This guy doesn't mince words so to speak.
@baseballhs posted:You know when D1 coaches ask you to call them.
Yeah, my son realized he was a D1 prospect when his coach told him he needed to call a few coaches during his 15u summer.
While Covid "helped" my 2021 go the Juco route, it after he was asked to stick around after a D1 program's camp, that I personally felt he was D1 prospect. It was then he was given the RC's personal cell number and told to call. Up until that point, I WANTED to know my son was a D1 prospect because all of his measurables were at/above the "recruiting guidelines" published by sites like NCSA. But that's NOT the case. Those give kids/parents a false sense of security at best and entitlement at worst. When my son was given his 2nd D1 RC's personal cell number, I had no doubt my son was a D1 PROSPECT. My son who is now a freshman at a Juco because no D1 offers ever came. So don't make the mistake of confusing having a D1 prospect son with having a D1 prospect son who actually gets a D1 offer. SO not the same.
Define D1 Prospect.
Do you mean University of Maryland Baltimore County D1? Or, do you mean Stetson University D1? Or, do you mean University of Virginia D1?
@JucoDad - when my son was 11u, he was clearly the smallest on his team. One kid was a giant. He was a foot taller than my son and bigger than the rest of the team too. Again, this was 11. Today, that kid is 5-10 and my son looks him in the eye. My son is also the only one from that 11U team going on to play in college. Blooming early is not a lock for future success.
@Francis7 posted:Define D1 Prospect.
Do you mean University of Maryland Baltimore County D1? Or, do you mean Stetson University D1? Or, do you mean University of Virginia D1?
It’s not really important to differentiate between a top 100 D1 and next 100 or bottom 100 D1. A kid could be a D1 prospect and end up playing D3. I know and know of kids who knew they weren’t pro prospects and chose competitive HA D3’s over mid majors. It was to get them pointed towards the right grad school in the future. There are kids who start at P5’s and end up at mid majors.
It’s really about not wasting time “fishing in the wrong pond” in the recruiting process. In most cases if a kid is chasing 17u teams without being recruited to play for one they’re starting out looking at the wrong poles before they even fish.
If a kid isn’t being recruited by a 17u A team chances are he’s being told he’s not a D1 prospect at any level. Being recruited by 17u teams doesn’t mean the kid is going to play D1 ball. It means he has a legitimate shot.
I remember when the moment arrived for my son. In 16u ball my son was starting to tune me (the coach) out. I told him someone else was going to have to kick his arse to the next level.
As we walked out the field gate a guy told me he had the foot to do it. He said he wanted to talk with me about several players. He was a coach from an academy. None of the kids he was interested in chose that program. But it was the beginning of the gates opening for these kids to be on the right teams to ultimately get to D1 ball.
I knew my son had the tools. I wasn’t sure he had the swing. His 17u hitting coach convinced him to make changes in his approach at the plate. My son had been tuning me out all season on need for the change. It can be hard to convince a 15yo kid having a great summer he’s going to hit a wall unless he changes. My son had struck the know-it-all years. My daughter (older kid) never stopped listening and was coachable all the way through 18u softball.
Danj, not trying to start a fight but if a player does not get an offer are they really a D1 prospect? I think Covid probably played a huge role in your son's journey. He may have been a for sure D1 guy before Covid hit but now that journey is different. Will be interested to see how it turns out.
According to the dictionary a prospect is a person regarded as likely to succeed at a particular element. So with that it is not just getting recruited, or getting an offer, but succeeding in D1. I'm saying that is the correct definition but by that definition there are a lot of guys who are on D1 rosters that are not truly D1 prospects.
Everyone told my son he was a D1 player. HS coach told him. Head of the travel organization told him. And, some affiliated with MLB that he trained with told him he was a D1 player. And, in the end, D1 schools recruited him and some D1 schools made him very generous offers. But the reality was that most of these D1s were schools/campuses that really didn't pull my son's interest. And, the ones that were OK were schools that would be thrilled to win 20 games in a season.
The kid wanted a school that he felt was the right fit and a baseball program that legitimately could contend for a national championship. So, he accepted a great athletic and academic offer to attend one of the Top fifteen D2s in the country - and they're there annually.
That all said, the layman's view on him when they hear he went D2 is that he wasn't a D1 prospect.
Is that correct?
Personally, I don't care. He's in the perfect place for him. Hopefully it's the best 4 years imaginable. My opinion on college baseball is: It's more than likely the last 4 years you will get to play a game that you have been playing for 12+ years. Why not go somewhere where those last 4 years have a chance to be the best 4 years? And, why go somewhere that's not going to be a good four years just to say you went D1?
A prospect is someone with the potential to succeed. There’s no guarantee they will reach their goal. But, they likely had some tolls to succeed. It’s possible for decision makers to misjudge potential.
@Francis7 posted:Everyone told my son he was a D1 player. HS coach told him. Head of the travel organization told him. And, some affiliated with MLB that he trained with told him he was a D1 player. And, in the end, D1 schools recruited him and some D1 schools made him very generous offers. But the reality was that most of these D1s were schools/campuses that really didn't pull my son's interest. And, the ones that were OK were schools that would be thrilled to win 20 games in a season.
The kid wanted a school that he felt was the right fit and a baseball program that legitimately could contend for a national championship. So, he accepted a great athletic and academic offer to attend one of the Top fifteen D2s in the country - and they're there annually.
That all said, the layman's view on him when they hear he went D2 is that he wasn't a D1 prospect.
Is that correct?
Personally, I don't care. He's in the perfect place for him. Hopefully it's the best 4 years imaginable. My opinion on college baseball is: It's more than likely the last 4 years you will get to play a game that you have been playing for 12+ years. Why not go somewhere where those last 4 years have a chance to be the best 4 years? And, why go somewhere that's not going to be a good four years just to say you went D1?
@adbono posted:100% right or 100% wrong?!?!
Bingo! But let's let Bob Uecker make the call:
I would say a two fold answer to answer OP's question. 1) Are you actively being recruited by D1 programs (more than camp invites/mass mailings)? Have coaches traveled to watch you play. Have D1 programs reached out to your HS or travel coaches for feedback or setting up phone calls?
2) Has a third party evaluator (such as BF, PBR, PG) indicated so based on your tool set? This is why many in HSBBWeb community don't encourage players who seek to play in college to attend a showcase until they have "something to show."
Some of the respondents have mentioned you know you’re a D1 prospect when they’re recruiting you. I’m talking about when a player starts making their plan to get recruited. When looking for the next travel team.
@RJM posted:Some of the respondents have mentioned you know you’re a D1 prospect when they’re recruiting you. I’m talking about when a player starts making their plan to get recruited. When looking for the next travel team.
At least for me - I don't think anybody should start considering college baseball until they start to stand out at the high school level. I understand there are powerhouse HS programs where JV players are committed to P5s and all that but that is a very small sample. Almost everybody else will play for a normal high school in the pretty good to slightly below average range.
If you can't stand out against other normal high schoolers - how special can you be? If you're that good (D1 prospect) you should be able to hold not only your own, but excel against older players, the vast majority of who will not be advancing past their final HS game.
And if you don't start to do that until your junior/senior year that is perfectly fine. Some come along later than others and may be more suited for a different level of D1 baseball than somebody who did it as a freshman.
Reminds me of a kid I knew who was recruited to a lower level D1 out of a powerhouse HS heading into his junior year. He didn't make his HS team as a senior. His college coach called him and let him know that were rescinding their offer. If he couldn't make his HS team how was he ever going to play for him. Other parents talked about what a jerk the college coach was. The coach wasn't a jerk, he was a bad recruiter.
There's always outliers. But, yeah, in general, I think you have to play Varsity HS baseball and have a modicum, at the least, of success at it in order to play college baseball. It's just common sense. You wouldn't expect a guy who can't bat .200 in AAA to all of a sudden find it easy to compete in the majors leagues. The game doesn't get easier as you move up the ladder.
@Francis7 posted:There's always outliers. But, yeah, in general, I think you have to play Varsity HS baseball and have a modicum, at the least, of success at it in order to play college baseball. It's just common sense. You wouldn't expect a guy who can't bat .200 in AAA to all of a sudden find it easy to compete in the majors leagues. The game doesn't get easier as you move up the ladder.
I agree with everything stated in this thread.
IMHO, being a prospect (metrics based) and landing a spot on is a different conversation.
Not to be overly complex because others have provided context. It is like fishing for any fish, e.g. sea bass. The size in NJ that you can keep is different than the size in CT (Long Island Sound)
Note, one must look at the numbers from the target conference they are interested in attending.
Seems over the past number of years, the focus has been on testing vs playing, there is a lot of debate, but this is not where this conversation should go in this thread.
CBI State Participation Report provides insights based on players home state (or country)
How many players from state(xx) or country (yy) played college baseball in year(nn)
Distribution by State - where they played
Distribution by Division - what division
Top 10 Conference
Distribution by Position
Subscribers can filter by demographics, e.g How many Freshman RHP from Georgia played NCAA-D1 baseball in 2021?
Why this might be relevant?
KISS Method, cost of attending events and the odds of landing a spot.
Note, I understand this is a very simplified look at college baseball recruiting journey (10k foot level)
@RJM posted:Some of the respondents have mentioned you know you’re a D1 prospect when they’re recruiting you. I’m talking about when a player starts making their plan to get recruited. When looking for the next travel team.
Agree with PABaseball and others that standing out among high schoolers is a solid indicator that a recruit may have the skills to play in college. In Virginia, a lot of the future D1 players are all-district, all-state and they have clearly separated themselves from others in their age group as well as older players. In our area, I see a lot of strong freshmen and sophomores making Varsity in a very high level baseball area that go on to play D1. This is a strong indicator of skills.
Additionally, going to skills camps and talking to Coaches about what they look for is a very good idea. My son was early in his high school sophomore year and got an opportunity to talk one-on-one (face to face) with a D1 HA pitching coach from Boston that began recruiting him after the UVA skills camp. The PC told him that not only did he have to separate himself on the baseball field but he also had to do it in the classroom too. After that conversation, I think my son realized he had two things "going for him" that colleges wanted in one package.
What about kids who stand out playing up in 16u travel ball being recognized and recruited by 17u programs who typically get kids into D1 programs? I would say this is more of an indicator than playing varsity ball. There are plenty of high school varsity players who will never see D1. What a player does in competitive travel ball is more relevant than high school. These five played JV ball as freshman as opposed to freshman ball. In JV ball they proved they should be varsity starters soph year. Then they excelled playing up in 16u ball that summer. I would say competitive 16u travel ball is varsity ball without a handful of older 17u studs. I had five of these 15yo kids who were recruited by 17u programs before ever stepping on a varsity field.
They were starting to display potential D1 metrics*. But, only one was eventually perceived as a stud. His college coach said he could be come his greatest recruit ever. They all went went P5. The “stud” was the only one who failed. He went into a ranked team program. But he lost the starting job they tried to hand him three straight years by the time conference play started.
My opinion is being pursued by 17u travel programs due to having a quality 16u season is more relevant than playing varsity ball.
My original point was if you’re a potential D1 player the 17u programs pursue you, not you pursue them. Chances are this kind of player has shown something on the field 17u travel programs have noticed.
* All five were starting to show live arms and potential D1 velocity. Two went on to be D1 pitchers. Three went on to be D1 position players. One had blazing speed. Two were starting to mash.
I still say that if you are a D1 prospect who will play, they will contact you. Again, I think everyone should do at least one showcase a year, if you think you are a prospect. If you are, they will write about you. My son committed before he played any meaningful varsity and played on a travel team with his friends...we never made it out of pool play at tournaments. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
@baseballhs posted:I still say that if you are a D1 prospect who will play, they will contact you. Again, I think everyone should do at least one showcase a year, if you think you are a prospect. If you are, they will write about you. My son committed before he played any meaningful varsity and played on a travel team with his friends...we never made it out of pool play at tournaments. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
I think if we compare our views and look at them sideways it’s kind of the same thing. Your son did a showcase that got him in front of D1’s who made contact. My son was recruited by a travel program known for placing players in D1. Once he played for them they made contact. There’s no doubt you’re not a D1 prospect until they start making contact. Part of it was he was promoted by the travel program to certain D1’s. He ended up at one of them.
But I’ve seen players think they’re D1 prospects, tried to get on certain 17u teams that would never happen and/or wasted money attending showcases that were above their (not D1) talent level.
My daughter went through the same process for softball. Programs were contacted by the travel team, saw her play and made contact with her. But she was discovered and ended up at a college that wasn’t originally on her radar. Part of this was college coaches check out the talent of travel teams known for getting players to their level (in this case their conference).
@RJM posted:I think if we compare our views and look at them sideways it’s kind of the same thing. Your son did a showcase that got him in front of D1’s who made contact. My son was recruited by a travel program known for placing players in D1. Once he played for them they made contact. There’s no doubt you’re not a D1 prospect until they start making contact. Part of it was he was promoted by the travel program to certain D1’s. He ended up at one of them.
But I’ve seen players think they’re D1 prospects, tried to get on certain 17u teams that would never happen and/or wasted money attending showcases that were above their (not D1) talent level.
My daughter went through the same process for softball. Programs were contacted by the travel team, saw her play and made contact with her. But she was discovered and ended up at a college that wasn’t originally on her radar. Part of this was college coaches check out the talent of travel teams known for getting players to their level (in this case their conference).
There are many travel programs that make a lot of claims. This can be tricky to navigate for the inexperienced parents/players. Some programs like to tell players what they want to hear. Please be careful and know who you are dealing with.
@RoadRunner posted:There are many travel programs that make a lot of claims. This can be tricky to navigate for the inexperienced parents/players. Some programs like to tell players what they want to hear. Please be careful and know who you are dealing with.
This. Especially if they say "he could be a D1 prospect." Ask what that means.
@RoadRunner posted:There are many travel programs that make a lot of claims. This can be tricky to navigate for the inexperienced parents/players. Some programs like to tell players what they want to hear. Please be careful and know who you are dealing with.
Like any expensive product you do your market research. I’m amazed parents wouldn’t. We researched every 17u program there was mutual interest. We looked at where the last three classes had been placed.
We walked away from one based on alumni claims. There were names on the wall I knew didn’t live anywhere nearby. I found out the four names I zeroed in on played one weekend as visiting players while throwing paying customers under the bus.
The net is parents must speak with people with more experience. I was flying blind with my daughter and softball. The recruiting process was nothing like when I was recruited for baseball years previous. I leaned on the parent on one of my daughter’s high school teammates who had two older daughters already playing college ball.
With my younger son and some experience I knew what to look for.
RJM, that is my exact thought on colleges. How do parents not do the due diligence when it comes to rosters and recruits and transfers. I know the past 2 years have changed everything but before that it was pretty reliable. We looked back 10 years, even their previous schools they were at. I can tell you what our PC did when he was at Houston to give us background on his past record with pitchers. I did the same with programs. We moved to Missouri when my youngest was an 8th grader. Had to begin the process to find a program in Kansas City when we knew nobody and nobody in our town played travel. I did all kinds of research on the organization and teams and coaches. The first fall we would not commit to anyone but agreed to be a pick-up player. I know that was easier for us since son was already highly ranked and had played on top 10 USSSA teams since he was 5. But some made some really wild claims and I remember asking a couple of teams how they could guarantee the things they were saying. I knew what I had in son but they did not other than what USSSA and others said. The first team we played with was AAA and we had always played open. Son pitched 2 perfect games that weekend and hit 5 HR's. (All due to playing way down on very small fields.) Son said I don't want to do this if this is all they have here. The phone blew up that weekend. Every coach we played wanted son to play. It was a real tough process to find the team we actually ended up with locally. We played locally with one team and nationally with his old team and pick-up teams in the WWBA's 14U-18U.
The phrase "he can be a D1 prospect" is normally followed by if you play with us and take lessons for our guys and listen to our advice.
@roadrunner's key word was "inexperienced". Many parents don't know what they don't know. If you google and find hsbbw, you might have a chance; otherwise, there's very little of this sort of info out there.
@PitchingFan posted:The phrase "he can be a D1 prospect" is normally followed by if you play with us and take lessons for our guys and listen to our advice.
Exactly; but why would I not believe it? If I don't know anyone else to ask, if they say they will provide development, if I see that they have indeed sent players to D1s...
What specific things would you want them to say that would convince a family that they are telling the truth (as they know it)?
@anotherparent posted:@roadrunner's key word was "inexperienced". Many parents don't know what they don't know. If you google and find hsbbw, you might have a chance; otherwise, there's very little of this sort of info out there.
Exactly; but why would I not believe it? If I don't know anyone else to ask, if they say they will provide development, if I see that they have indeed sent players to D1s...
What specific things would you want them to say that would convince a family that they are telling the truth (as they know it)?
Look at who was placed and where. Look to see how many years/games said player has played for said organization. Also look at the college roster and player bio. This often speaks volumes, sometimes without saying a word. I’ve seen some shady stuff:
Owners of clubs walking around with XYZ MLB hat on claiming to be a scout for that team. What kind of scout is he? Practically anyone can make this claim, and might even be an associate scout. There are, of course, different levels.
Other teams might make claims that they’ll play in certain events, but then don’t follow through, for various reasons.
Another way to determine the strength of an organization is to take a look at their pitching coach staff and the pitchers on the team. Do they take care of the pitchers arms? What is their pitching depth, which is a big part of arm care. 10 or more pitchers with stuff and velo is necessary to compete in events with D1 coaches watching. Ask the org who the pitchers are. Look up their PG/PBR numbers.
You won’t be facing D1 players on a regular basis if the team you’re on isn’t stacked with them. If you are a D1 coach, what do you want to see in a game? The very best orgs put their guys in position to compete against one another because it draws attention.
Another part of this is that SOME (but NOT ALL) Travel organizations will try and push their players to commit to the 290th nationally ranked D1 school over an offer from the 10th nationally ranked D2 just so that they can boast about "another D1 commit" and use that to get future players into their organization. And, they will stress to that player that they are a "d1 recruit" to try and sway him into taking that D1 offer.
Mine and RJM's was very clear. Why would you make such a large decision without doing your research? If I don't know medical stuff and my doctor recommends a very life changing procedure, I'm going to do my research. I'm going on the internet, ask friends, get a second opinion. This is not the same but the same mindset should be used for travel ball teams or college commitment. Do your research.
If you are asking what needs to be asked, legitimately. I'm going to watch a game of that team play. I'm going to talk to parents, other coaches, and organizational leaders. Yes they will trash each other but some of it has to be true. I don't go look at a car during business hours. I go after hours and see the car and check it out then I go back during business hours and deal with sales manager, never a salesman. If you won't give me a manger, then I'm walking.
I'm going to check out your pictures on the wall of your success stories and check out that player's playing history on PG, PBR, or wherever. My son is on the wall of at least 2 organizations that he only played one tournament with. One other place he is on their list of P5 commits and he never actually played with them but was on the roster for a tournament.
@PitchingFan posted:Mine and RJM's was very clear. Why would you make such a large decision without doing your research? If I don't know medical stuff and my doctor recommends a very life changing procedure, I'm going to do my research. I'm going on the internet, ask friends, get a second opinion. This is not the same but the same mindset should be used for travel ball teams or college commitment. Do your research.
If you are asking what needs to be asked, legitimately. I'm going to watch a game of that team play. I'm going to talk to parents, other coaches, and organizational leaders. Yes they will trash each other but some of it has to be true. I don't go look at a car during business hours. I go after hours and see the car and check it out then I go back during business hours and deal with sales manager, never a salesman. If you won't give me a manger, then I'm walking.
I'm going to check out your pictures on the wall of your success stories and check out that player's playing history on PG, PBR, or wherever. My son is on the wall of at least 2 organizations that he only played one tournament with. One other place he is on their list of P5 commits and he never actually played with them but was on the roster for a tournament.
All of this is just common sense and is very good advice. The problem is that most parents DO NOT do these these things. They go along with what their son wants to do and skip the due diligence. Or they take advice from a friend and skip the due diligence. They usually assume that all travel ball orgs are basically equal when they first wade into the water. After a year or two they realize all things are not equal and THEN they start doing the homework they should have done in the beginning. IMO the focus of all travel ball orgs should be player development. Exposure doesn’t accomplish anything unless you have skills (and playing ability) to show off. I advise any parent or player to look at the individual that is coaching your travel ball team more than the name of the org.
