Harper has turned down 10 years for 300M. Machado has turned down 8 years for 250M. Who feels sorry for the slow market? They’re creating a slow market.
The guys who get hurt are all the other players who will be grabbed up after six to eight teams each lose out on Harper and Machado.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
The money either goes to billionaire owners, or millionaire players. The billionaire owners have been rich and will be rich for generations; the players have a small window to earn with a unique ability God blessed them. How can you criticize players for trying to earn every penny they can? Someone's going to get the money and I'd rather it be the players.
It's called economic reality and right now it seems a couple of money grubbing agents telling them to wait it out because someone will pay them. I've said it elsewhere before - I don't see either player as worth that kind of money. They want long term contracts for "safety", but don't like it when someone passes them on the salary ranking. I'd say mgmt is going through risk assessment with their finance folks and deciding the value for their return on investment isn't worth it. There's only so much money it TV contracts, gate, ad revenue, stadium concessions, tax breaks, etc. that the market can bear. No one is in it to lose money especially not 'billionaire owners' who have either built it up or inherited it.
I wish they would sign. Sick of MLB network showing the Yankee lineup with Harper or Machado in it. Or the ripkensmoltzreynoldswhoever ex-player siren song of complaints of why aren't they and everyone else who has ever played signed for millions.
I feel sorry for the players having such a sorry ass union. Particularly the MLB players under club control.
Open the books, salary cap and a salary floor, and better revenue re-distribution.
Or forget all that and put Harper on Astros.
Springer
Altuve
Bregman
Harper
Correa
Gurriel
*******
whoever C, DH is
The game is skewing younger and front offices now understand how to properly value players better than before. The egos and impulsiveness of a small group of owners used to fuel the market for players, but that seems to have turned.
Last year it seemed like a no brainer that Hosmer was going to sign with the Redsox to a massive contract. They passed and signed Moreland for pennies on the dollar and got the World Series MVP for a minor league second baseman.
Hosmer got his money, but at the cost of going to SD. Moreland put up virtually the same numbers for a lot less.
Superstar pitching seems to be worth it. Superstar bats can go cold at any time. Harper and Machado have had some very ugly years. A league average replacement with some moves at the deadline can easily outweigh signing one of these guys for 10 years.
The owners are wealthy. But most teams aren’t making money hand over fist year after year. The return on investment is when the team is sold. But I don’t have an issue with players being paid whatever the market will bear. What the market will not bear is ten year contracts. Does anyone wonder if the Angels have any regrets over the Pujols contract?
Even seven years is risky. The Red Sox were fortunate the Dodgers were willing to take on Carl Crawford’s ridiculous seven year contract. When it was signed I was shocked a 29yo with a speed game got a seven year contract. I figured the Red Sox were willing to suffer later for immediate return. They turned out to be wrong all the way around.
What set me off last week was Even Longoria complaining about management. Anyone publicly complaining making what he makes is out of touch. He signed a lucrative six year contract five years ago. In four of the five years he’s had an average OPS. He’s been a waste of money.
I wouldn’t want to give Harper ten years. He plays so aggressively he’s offen banged up. How will he hold up in his 30’s. I wouldn’t want to give Machado ten years and hope his attitude holds up.
Like I stated I’m not against whatever owners will give players. But how much is enough? With money where it’s at for top players I would think more would be looking for the optimum place to play and live not bragging rights on the biggest contract. There’s always going to be the next bigger contract some else signs. Let’s say someone signs for 200M instead of 300M. It’s about 100M after taxes. If you have 100M in the bank instead of 150M what the hell is the difference? Once you have 10M you’re a 1 percenter. Take 100M and put it in a no risk 3% (CD bad investment). Chances are you can do better investing wisely. But it’s still 3M per year in interest.
The players who get screwed are those who are part of the domino effect. Until Harper and Machado sign this year’s market for players isn’t actually established.
If there is a problem it’s the fault of the players and the players association. In the last negotiations they agreed to a soft cap (luxury tax and draft slot penalties).
There is never enough for them, nor should there be. Revenues have more than doubled in the last 20 years, yet the players get a lower share than they did even in the 70s. No MLB team has ever gone bankrupt. The owners are like bums begging on the corner with a ham under the other arm. If every player took the philosophy of "this is enough money", they never would have gotten the money in the first place. Most of the people who are against the players union are big on other unions for more "respectable" jobs. Marvin Miller fought for free agency under the principles that teams would want to win and thus would spend money to win. Now, teams don't care about the product, and going into the season there are only 6 teams that could conceivably win the WS.
There is going to be a major labor war in 2022.
Teams have seen too much risk, low reward for long term contracts. First ridiculous one was when A-Roid signed with the Texas Rangers and the owner was basically bidding against himself.
Pay the minor leagues more than $16,000 a season.
All of baseball should be ashamed!
A 10 yr deal has small chance of being a winner for an organization, if you include the Manny factor it is considerably less, they are just beginning to figure it out. Scott Boras doesn't care a damn bit about anyone but Scott Boras, that includes his clients. Bitch all you want about greedy owners and players but the market forces eventually find a value.
Player strike in 2022 - they would be JACKASSES TO WALK OUT ON STRIKE but then again...
Hungry dogs run faster
Why wait? Strike now and bring up the Milb’rs
old_school posted:A 10 yr deal has small chance of being a winner for an organization, if you include the Manny factor it is considerably less, they are just beginning to figure it out. Scott Boras doesn't care a damn bit about anyone but Scott Boras, that includes his clients. Bitch all you want about greedy owners and players but the market forces eventually find a value.
Player strike in 2022 - they would be JACKASSES TO WALK OUT ON STRIKE but then again...
Hungry dogs run faster
The "market force" in this case is collusion. Whether it rises to the level of criminal behavior, I don't know.
BaseballBUDDY posted:Why wait? Strike now and bring up the Milb’rs
MLB will not bring up players during a strike.
Matt13 posted:old_school posted:A 10 yr deal has small chance of being a winner for an organization, if you include the Manny factor it is considerably less, they are just beginning to figure it out. Scott Boras doesn't care a damn bit about anyone but Scott Boras, that includes his clients. Bitch all you want about greedy owners and players but the market forces eventually find a value.
Player strike in 2022 - they would be JACKASSES TO WALK OUT ON STRIKE but then again...
Hungry dogs run faster
The "market force" in this case is collusion. Whether it rises to the level of criminal behavior, I don't know.
I believe the market force is good business sense. If a team signs a bunch of long term contracts they will get stuck with a bunch of dead money.
Between Sandoval, Ramirez and Castillo the Red Sox got stuck with a lot of dead money. They have Prices huge contract for four more years. They were fortunate to get out of the Crawford contract. They’ve paid a lot in salary tax and loss of draft position. With all the young players they have coming into free agency in the next two years they can’t afford to sign Kimbrel to a long term contract. Plus I don’t believe he’s worth after he became Maalox Man out if the pen at age thirty.
The Red Sox have been trying to work a long term deal with Mookie Betts for two years. I’m betting it hasn’t got done because they haven’t offered beyond 5-7 years.
Even the Yankees chose to build through development rather than offer a lot of long term contacts. The Dodfers spent so much money the past few years they can’t afford to spend anymore.
If the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodfers are now spending wisely the players and afents better take notice. These are the teams with money.
I cant imagine what Harper wants if he turned down 10/300 from the Nationals.
Matt13 posted:BaseballBUDDY posted:Why wait? Strike now and bring up the Milb’rs
MLB will not bring up players during a strike.
Not only will MLB teams use MILB replacement players during a strike, they have. Do some homework on 1995.
RJM,
There is no empathy here. Zero. This is big business with big numbers. Last time I checked this is a marketplace, whereby talented individuals and organizations are free to set their price. There is no collusion here, just freaking common sense. The MLB long-term-contracts pendulum is swinging back to reality. Everyone of us deals with a labor market when we look for a job or when our employer lets us go. Harper, Machado and others are not concerned about Joey-Bag-of-Donut's employment situation unless they are paying to come see them play MLB. Everybody does what they need to do to support their families and lifestyles, including baseball superstars. That is the free market economy.
A follow up question a could be...."Do you think Harper and Machado are getting bad business advice and read the labor market incorrectly a few months ago and are now trying to save face?" My answer is absolutely yes. Harper should have jumped at the Nats offer, and frankly I don't care what Machado does.
When the ceiling is raised for players like Harper and Machado the players below on the salary ladder tend to move up a step or two. So you could argue the agents are in collusion to drive up salaries.
Pedroia took a lot of heat from the players association when he signed a long term, hometown discount contract with the Sox. His attitude was it was enough money, his family has nothing to worry about and he will be a Sox lifer.
The person who really gets hurt by this whole situation is the dad in a family of four who has to tell his kids he can’t afford about $400 (decent seats, hot dog, soda, ice cream, parking) to take them to a MLB game.
Decent left field grandstand seats at Fenway are $60. The three food items are another $24. Parking is $40. Eating nothing and taking the T is still $65 per person.
I’m reminded of a sign in the bleachers after Bill Campbell blew another save (signed 3 yrs/2M). “Dump Campbell. Bring back the $1.50 bleacher seat.” When the Sox signed Campbell they doubled bleacher seats to $3. Even at $3 it was still the cheapest free high in America.
Matt13 posted:old_school posted:A 10 yr deal has small chance of being a winner for an organization, if you include the Manny factor it is considerably less, they are just beginning to figure it out. Scott Boras doesn't care a damn bit about anyone but Scott Boras, that includes his clients. Bitch all you want about greedy owners and players but the market forces eventually find a value.
Player strike in 2022 - they would be JACKASSES TO WALK OUT ON STRIKE but then again...
Hungry dogs run faster
The "market force" in this case is collusion. Whether it rises to the level of criminal behavior, I don't know.
please please expand on this. I would love for you to explain how multiple offers of 7 plus years and over 250m is collusion... the floor is yours.
PABaseball posted:Last year it seemed like a no brainer that Hosmer was going to sign with the Redsox to a massive contract. They passed and signed Moreland for pennies on the dollar and got the World Series MVP for a minor league second baseman.
Hosmer got his money, but at the cost of going to SD. Moreland put up virtually the same numbers for a lot less.
Superstar pitching seems to be worth it. Superstar bats can go cold at any time. Harper and Machado have had some very ugly years. A league average replacement with some moves at the deadline can easily outweigh signing one of these guys for 10 years.
I don't disagree with your overall argument, but superstar pitchers can go cold too, or even worse, lose a year or more to TJ surgery. As for Harper and Machado having "very ugly years". I think you are exaggerating more than a bit to make your case.
RJM posted:Matt13 posted:old_school posted:
I believe the market force is good business sense. If a team signs a bunch of long term contracts they will get stuck with a bunch of dead money.
Between Sandoval, Ramirez and Castillo the Red Sox got stuck with a lot of dead money. They have Prices huge contract for four more years. They were fortunate to get out of the Crawford contract. They’ve paid a lot in salary tax and loss of draft position. With all the young players they have coming into free agency in the next two years they can’t afford to sign Kimbrel to a long term contract. Plus I don’t believe he’s worth after he became Maalox Man out if the pen at age thirty.
The Red Sox have been trying to work a long term deal with Mookie Betts for two years. I’m betting it hasn’t got done because they haven’t offered beyond 5-7 years.
Even the Yankees chose to build through development rather than offer a lot of long term contacts. The Dodfers spent so much money the past few years they can’t afford to spend anymore.
If the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodfers are now spending wisely the players and afents better take notice. These are the teams with money.
I cant imagine what Harper wants if he turned down 10/300 from the Nationals.
RJM you need to stop now, there is no place left for logic in this world.
Poor Manny acts like a ass on the biggest stage AND uses that same stage to speak his mind showing what a selfish SOB he is... but it is collusion...sure.
Harper has 10 yrs and 300m or there about from the Phillies just has to sign but it is not enough...it was better then the Nats offer but it is collusion...he doesn't have 6 teams dumb enough to over pay him!!
Maybe he will go on the just pay him even though he doesn't want to work plan!!
The guy who is going to shafted is Trout, he is maybe the one guy worth 10 years and 300+ but his contract is coming due at what may be a very bad time.
In answer to the OP, I have zero sympathy for the FA's in question. I do have sympathy for the players in minor pro ball who are making near starvation wages. Just found out that the local, very good quality, Independent League team pays their player $1800/month. Players are falling over each other to get spot on the team.
Some other, less high profile teams pay $500-800/month.
JCG posted:PABaseball posted:Last year it seemed like a no brainer that Hosmer was going to sign with the Redsox to a massive contract. They passed and signed Moreland for pennies on the dollar and got the World Series MVP for a minor league second baseman.
Hosmer got his money, but at the cost of going to SD. Moreland put up virtually the same numbers for a lot less.
Superstar pitching seems to be worth it. Superstar bats can go cold at any time. Harper and Machado have had some very ugly years. A league average replacement with some moves at the deadline can easily outweigh signing one of these guys for 10 years.
I don't disagree with your overall argument, but superstar pitchers can go cold too, or even worse, lose a year or more to TJ surgery. As for Harper and Machado having "very ugly years". I think you are exaggerating more than a bit to make your case.
Re: Pitchers and their arms
The only way Price was going to be worth the money (7yr/210M) is winning a World Series. He’s not going to get better than his in decline numbers. The absurdity is the Sox could have resigned Lester for 5yr/125M.
57special posted:In answer to the OP, I have zero sympathy for the FA's in question. I do have sympathy for the players in minor pro ball who are making near starvation wages. Just found out that the local, very good quality, Independent League team pays their player $1800/month. Players are falling over each other to get spot on the team.
Some other, less high profile teams pay $500-800/month.
you nailed it, players are falling all over themselves for the chance to be on the team. If they weren't salaries may go up, then again there may not be any market for the higher price Independent teams...so they would just fold.
The supply of players is way way out of whack with the demand for them, there will never be any money in MiLB for that reason alone. There never has been any money there and there never will be. Players play for close to free for a chance at the dream. That's why I just smile when I hear MiLB guys call themselves professionals...it may be accurate but that doesn't make it impressive IMO.
In my view, while no one needs to feel sorry for Machado or Harper, I think it is totally a non-starter to suggest they are in the wrong. They are battling Billionaires, they are the talent and they have a limited number of years to maximize the return on their talent.
As it relates to Milb, so much is not understood or appreciated. MLB wants them to compete against the best to get them the AB's and innings to get better to matriculate up. The owners of MILB teams make millions of dollars on their backs. The billionaires were concerned enough that they poured money into the pockets of lobbyists and Congress to pass the ridiculous "Save America's Pastime" laws to further allow MLB to control the playing conditions and compensation at all levels of MILB and to remove MLB from wage laws.
This complete farce does not end for the player when he is released. Many get released in the face of career ending injuries for which MLB is completely responsible under all Workers' Compensation laws. In my view, it would be intriguing to to look at and understand the costs of medical care which MLB shifts to the private and taxpayer sectors by failing to completely and properly provide medical care, for which it is legally responsible, to those injured while playing MILB and then washed out through a release.
old_school posted:Matt13 posted:The "market force" in this case is collusion. Whether it rises to the level of criminal behavior, I don't know.
please please expand on this. I would love for you to explain how multiple offers of 7 plus years and over 250m is collusion... the floor is yours.
I doubt I can convince you, but I'll give it a try.
MLB total revenue increased $1 Billion from 2016-218. MLB total payroll increased $0 over the same period.
The Nats reportedly offered Harper $300M over 10 years in November. The Nats are ranked 9th in market size. Is it unreasonable for Harper to assume that he would get a better offer from a bigger market team over the winter? Scherzer got $30M/year for 7 years in 2015. Price got more than that. Neither of those guys (and I love Scherzer) put butts in seats, or get eyes on devices like Harper.
I haven't heard anyone asking fans to feel sorry for these guys... not even Boras.
JCG posted:PABaseball posted:Last year it seemed like a no brainer that Hosmer was going to sign with the Redsox to a massive contract. They passed and signed Moreland for pennies on the dollar and got the World Series MVP for a minor league second baseman.
Hosmer got his money, but at the cost of going to SD. Moreland put up virtually the same numbers for a lot less.
Superstar pitching seems to be worth it. Superstar bats can go cold at any time. Harper and Machado have had some very ugly years. A league average replacement with some moves at the deadline can easily outweigh signing one of these guys for 10 years.
I don't disagree with your overall argument, but superstar pitchers can go cold too, or even worse, lose a year or more to TJ surgery. As for Harper and Machado having "very ugly years". I think you are exaggerating more than a bit to make your case.
The argument was more or less that pitchers can get away with it more because it is still easier to get outs than get hits. Plus, bad starts can be saved by good hitting. But yes I agree.
However, Harper has had 2 ugly years where he hit below .250 and did not have 100 RBIs. Last year especially, considering he was hitting around .190 heading into the all star break. Either way he has only hit above .274 twice in his career. It is hard to justify that money when guys making 2 million a year can put up similar numbers. You would be paying for the flare, the mound charges, the sound bits, the jersey sales, and the excitement. Not the year in year out consistency that you get from a guy like Trout. Even Machado has never hit over .300, .290 once with a few sub 100 RBI seasons.
PABaseball posted:JCG posted:PABaseball posted:Last year it seemed like a no brainer that Hosmer was going to sign with the Redsox to a massive contract. They passed and signed Moreland for pennies on the dollar and got the World Series MVP for a minor league second baseman.
Hosmer got his money, but at the cost of going to SD. Moreland put up virtually the same numbers for a lot less.
Superstar pitching seems to be worth it. Superstar bats can go cold at any time. Harper and Machado have had some very ugly years. A league average replacement with some moves at the deadline can easily outweigh signing one of these guys for 10 years.
I don't disagree with your overall argument, but superstar pitchers can go cold too, or even worse, lose a year or more to TJ surgery. As for Harper and Machado having "very ugly years". I think you are exaggerating more than a bit to make your case.
The argument was more or less that pitchers can get away with it more because it is still easier to get outs than get hits. Plus, bad starts can be saved by good hitting. But yes I agree.
However, Harper has had 2 ugly years where he hit below .250 and did not have 100 RBIs. Last year especially, considering he was hitting around .190 heading into the all star break. Either way he has only hit above .274 twice in his career. It is hard to justify that money when guys making 2 million a year can put up similar numbers. You would be paying for the flare, the mound charges, the sound bits, the jersey sales, and the excitement. Not the year in year out consistency that you get from a guy like Trout. Even Machado has never hit over .300, .290 once with a few sub 100 RBI seasons.
Most Everything I have heard or read is that MLB is now negotiating from the position of future production and value rather than past production and "rewarding" for past production. This is a big focus in our area as the Giants have large contracts for injured pitchers and position players. some of whom helped them to some of their 3 championships, by the time they signed bigger deals.
If that is true, players like Harper and Machado are at maximum potential value. Each is 26 and by many measurements, likely to be reaching their full potential in the next 3-5 years.
PABaseball posted:However, Harper has had 2 ugly years where he hit below .250 and did not have 100 RBIs. Last year especially, considering he was hitting around .190 heading into the all star break. Either way he has only hit above .274 twice in his career. It is hard to justify that money when guys making 2 million a year can put up similar numbers. You would be paying for the flare, the mound charges, the sound bits, the jersey sales, and the excitement. Not the year in year out consistency that you get from a guy like Trout. Even Machado has never hit over .300, .290 once with a few sub 100 RBI seasons.
Yes, last year was a down year for him, but ugly? 10th in NL OPS, 1st in walks, tied for 7th in HR with 34. 8th in RBI. I'll take it. He's not Mike Trout, but he's still one of the top players in the NL even in an off year. BTW I don't think he was healthy for the first half.
(Also BTW I'm a Giants fan, and most Giants fans thought Harper did the right thing in going after Strickland. He's an idiot, which is why they DFA'd him.)
Steve A. posted:Matt13 posted:BaseballBUDDY posted:Why wait? Strike now and bring up the Milb’rs
MLB will not bring up players during a strike.
Not only will MLB teams use MILB replacement players during a strike, they have. Do some homework on 1995.
Take your own damn advice. They never got to the point of using them because it would, as today, required at least four teams not to play the season due to the legal ramifications. (Actually, it would have been five, because Montreal would have also been subject to Canada's ban on replacement workers.)
old_school posted:RJM posted:Matt13 posted:old_school posted:
I believe the market force is good business sense. If a team signs a bunch of long term contracts they will get stuck with a bunch of dead money.
Between Sandoval, Ramirez and Castillo the Red Sox got stuck with a lot of dead money. They have Prices huge contract for four more years. They were fortunate to get out of the Crawford contract. They’ve paid a lot in salary tax and loss of draft position. With all the young players they have coming into free agency in the next two years they can’t afford to sign Kimbrel to a long term contract. Plus I don’t believe he’s worth after he became Maalox Man out if the pen at age thirty.
The Red Sox have been trying to work a long term deal with Mookie Betts for two years. I’m betting it hasn’t got done because they haven’t offered beyond 5-7 years.
Even the Yankees chose to build through development rather than offer a lot of long term contacts. The Dodfers spent so much money the past few years they can’t afford to spend anymore.
If the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodfers are now spending wisely the players and afents better take notice. These are the teams with money.
I cant imagine what Harper wants if he turned down 10/300 from the Nationals.
RJM you need to stop now, there is no place left for logic in this world.
Poor Manny acts like a ass on the biggest stage AND uses that same stage to speak his mind showing what a selfish SOB he is... but it is collusion...sure.
Harper has 10 yrs and 300m or there about from the Phillies just has to sign but it is not enough...it was better then the Nats offer but it is collusion...he doesn't have 6 teams dumb enough to over pay him!!
Maybe he will go on the just pay him even though he doesn't want to work plan!!
The guy who is going to shafted is Trout, he is maybe the one guy worth 10 years and 300+ but his contract is coming due at what may be a very bad time.
Logic only works if it is factually-based. To look at your own statement, the Nats and the Phillies do not have differing offers in principle--Washington has all but admitted to collusion with Philadelphia with their most recent statements.
infielddad posted:Most Everything I have heard or read is that MLB is now negotiating from the position of future production and value rather than past production and "rewarding" for past production. This is a big focus in our area as the Giants have large contracts for injured pitchers and position players. some of whom helped them to some of their 3 championships, by the time they signed bigger deals.If that is true, players like Harper and Machado are at maximum potential value. Each is 26 and by many measurements, likely to be reaching their full potential in the next 3-5 years.
I don't disagree. I think Harper's best years are in front of him and he is somebody who I can see being in the MVP hunt every few years. He is one of the few players I would consider worth the money, just probably not for 10 years.
My point was that the star power that comes with the name has to do more with him being a teen phenom hitting 500ft HRs more than it has had to do with having consistent monster years. But I do think that will correct itself and he will start having some more of those big years like he did 2 years ago. I like him and want to see it.
As for Machado they jury is still out on him. I just don't know if he is going to be the same player in 5 years.
JCG posted:PABaseball posted:However, Harper has had 2 ugly years where he hit below .250 and did not have 100 RBIs. Last year especially, considering he was hitting around .190 heading into the all star break. Either way he has only hit above .274 twice in his career. It is hard to justify that money when guys making 2 million a year can put up similar numbers. You would be paying for the flare, the mound charges, the sound bits, the jersey sales, and the excitement. Not the year in year out consistency that you get from a guy like Trout. Even Machado has never hit over .300, .290 once with a few sub 100 RBI seasons.
Yes, last year was a down year for him, but ugly? 10th in NL OPS, 1st in walks, tied for 7th in HR with 34. 8th in RBI. I'll take it. He's not Mike Trout, but he's still one of the top players in the NL even in an off year. BTW I don't think he was healthy for the first half.
(Also BTW I'm a Giants fan, and most Giants fans thought Harper did the right thing in going after Strickland. He's an idiot, which is why they DFA'd him.)
Notice how none of Strickland's teammates even moved until Harper had already gone out to the mound and thrown a punch. It tells me that either Strickland was told not to do that before the game or that everybody on that team hated him.
Matt13 posted:old_school posted:A 10 yr deal has small chance of being a winner for an organization, if you include the Manny factor it is considerably less, they are just beginning to figure it out. Scott Boras doesn't care a damn bit about anyone but Scott Boras, that includes his clients. Bitch all you want about greedy owners and players but the market forces eventually find a value.
Player strike in 2022 - they would be JACKASSES TO WALK OUT ON STRIKE but then again...
Hungry dogs run faster
The "market force" in this case is collusion. Whether it rises to the level of criminal behavior, I don't know.
I don't think it's collusion. Instead I think it's analytics. teams have invested a lot of money in analytics, and not just the stuff we see on Fangraphs. They have endless terabytes of performance and financial data that they use in their valuations of players.
I don't fault the players or the owners for trying to negotiate contracts to their own advantage, but I think that both of them - and especially player agents - need to look beyond the old contract model. The 8+ year deal contracts certainly seem to be a huge risk for owners and I'm sure that deeper analytics bear that out. What I see coming soon is a shift to shorter 4 and 5 year contracts at $35M-$40M AAV. In fact, I think most players would jump on that but their agents don't want to give up their long term commissions.
Wow...all this talk had me actually dig into these guys numbers. In the last 5 seasons Harper has had 3 seasons of less than 1.5 WAR. Machado's WAR has decreased for 4 straight seasons. They both had monster years at age 22, but I sure don't want to commit to either guy for 10 years at a record breaking deal.
Twilight Zone
its opening day and neither player signed with a team.
Do we all move on and watch our favorite team play ?
Or does MLB step in for the so-called
, “ integrity of the game,” and bring teams back to the table.
Title of this show: Signability , it’s not just for draft prospects.
K9 posted:Wow...all this talk had me actually dig into these guys numbers. In the last 5 seasons Harper has had 3 seasons of less than 1.5 WAR. Machado's WAR has decreased for 4 straight seasons. They both had monster years at age 22, but I sure don't want to commit to either guy for 10 years at a record breaking deal.
With Harper he plays so hard will he hold up physically for ten years? With Machado does his attitude hold up for ten years?
Matt13 posted:old_school posted:RJM posted:Matt13 posted:old_school posted:
RJM you need to stop now, there is no place left for logic in this world.
Poor Manny acts like a ass on the biggest stage AND uses that same stage to speak his mind showing what a selfish SOB he is... but it is collusion...sure.
Harper has 10 yrs and 300m or there about from the Phillies just has to sign but it is not enough...it was better then the Nats offer but it is collusion...he doesn't have 6 teams dumb enough to over pay him!!
Maybe he will go on the just pay him even though he doesn't want to work plan!!
The guy who is going to shafted is Trout, he is maybe the one guy worth 10 years and 300+ but his contract is coming due at what may be a very bad time.
Logic only works if it is factually-based. To look at your own statement, the Nats and the Phillies do not have differing offers in principle--Washington has all but admitted to collusion with Philadelphia with their most recent statements.
and the White Sox and the Giants....
K9 posted:Wow...all this talk had me actually dig into these guys numbers. In the last 5 seasons Harper has had 3 seasons of less than 1.5 WAR. Machado's WAR has decreased for 4 straight seasons. They both had monster years at age 22, but I sure don't want to commit to either guy for 10 years at a record breaking deal.
