How To Get By In The Minors On $1,500 A Month

3and2Fastball posted:

I think it might be wise to understand that the value of $1500 a month really depends on where you live.   $1500 goes a lot further in Missoula MT than it does in Las Vegas, for instance.   If you are playing for the Biloxi Shuckers your money might go further than if you are playing for the Durham Bulls, as another example

Durham is AAA, so is Las Vegas.  Non 40 man rostered players start at 3500, 40 man rostered players and free agents can make100k plus.  You are way passed the poverty level at this point.  AA pay is 2500 per month.

The system is designed for most players not to be successful.  If after a few years your college player hasnt reached high A or AA, he probably doesnt belong at this particular job anymore. Most HS players will have a longer journey, so either get yourself a nice signing bonus or head to college for a degree or 3 years at the most.

One good point that was brought up. Independent leagues pay most players practically nothing per month, yet you will find many ex milb players and former college players trying to pull strings to get a roster spot on these teams, to try to get back to making 1200, 1500 a month with a milb team!!!!

Cant be all that bad!

Once again, milb isnt necessarily designed to make most players get to the ML level but rather to make up a team for those that will.

Kudos to those folks who understand that this is a choice, and that they as parents dont have to support their sons past a certain age and feel guilty about it.

When our son was being courted by scouts in HS, we made it clear that you'd better get enough signing bonus because if you turn down college we are not supporting you.  We said the same to our daughter in terms of support.

This is how you raise productive healthy adults who more than likely will be more successful at something other than baseball.  

FWIW, there is a big difference in how teams treat their minor leaguers.  My son never was served a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as a meal from the two organizations he worked for, yet I have heard about how many, even large market ones do. I think many teams make efforts to do as much as they can for their lower minor league players.  

chefmike7777 posted:

They are boys- underwear and food will go in the same bag . Truth is my kids are all still on my phone plan- just cheaper for them. They do pay if they are working and we cover if they are not. Same with health insurance, it makes no sense that they are not on my family plan as long as possible. Doesn't cost me a dime more.

Yes it does cost you more. Without the additional family members on the group plan the company would be paying less. Your monthly buy in would be less. Or you would be paid more.

Here's the rip off. It would be easy to say this isn't fair. Since the 70's the dollar has inflated 300%. MiLB minimum pay has increased 75%.

The argument against is its a market driven seasonal job (by the books). Therefore minimum wage doesn't apply. Also, no one is forcing anyone to be a minor leaguer. It's a leap of faith based on the player investing his time and talent.

Maybe it's why there are more and more players coming from poor Carribean environments. A college kid decides he isn't signing on for a long shot with a $1K bonus and $1200 a month for six months. He takes the 30-60K job. The poor Caribbean kid sees $1000 and it looks like a million bucks. He has nothing to lose signing. It may his only way out of poverty.

A friend's son was drafted by the Mets and assigned to Brooklyn. He rented a dorm room in a local college. He and his teammate's hit NYC. They thought the NYC women would be interested in pro ball players. They were. But not minor leaguers on beer money.

He made it to AAA. He eventually signed a sizable contract, all expenses paid to play in Japan for a couple of years. He came back and became AAA roster filler for several years making about 75k. His view was where else can he go to work for 75k for seven months. 

He's now a A level coach making a lot less. His dad knew he was a baseball lifer from the beginning. The kid (now in his 30's) said he'll quit baseball when they tear the uniform off his back.

RJM, good points .Didn't realize it was only 300%. With what you said on foriegn born. I wonder what the makeup of teams was back in the day? Would think not near as many foriegn born. I get whats said next "free market" I would agree. Its just didn't Mr. Smith mention over and over a word that seems like most have forgot these days when free markets/capitalizm  is slammed.    The  "MORALS" that are supposed to go hand in hand with the system.

RJM or anyone. Out of 1200 ML players (40 man x 30 teams), what percentage is american born vs foreign?

TPM posted:

RJM or anyone. Out of 1200 ML players (40 man x 30 teams), what percentage is american born vs foreign?

my guess 35% foreign born.

Opening day numbers (25 man roster) listed as 27.5%

NYdad2017 posted:

Opening day numbers (25 man roster) listed as 27.5%

So out of 750 players, 27.5% or roughly 206 players are American born, opening day?

2015 opening day rosters article ...

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/...born-outside-the-us/

These young men are no doubt among the most exploited workers in the entire US.  Their employer is exempt from many ordinary regulations that apply to every other industry.   And their employer is an extraordinarily profitable multi-billion dollar entertainment industry.  I have complete sympathy for them as exploited labor and none for their employers.  To dismiss them as whiners, as some on this board are prone to do.... is well .... 

But then I grew up in union household and to this day tend to sympathize with working stiffs. 

Ok sorry,  asked what % americans vs foreign born.  I dont see the mention of 35%.

Sluggerdad,

If you are taking about milb players being exploited, I dont necessarily agree. American born players get drafted and have an option NOT to sign. Trust me, no one suffers playing this game unless they get hurt.

As far as exploiting foreign born players, I think MLB has cleaned that up in the DR and other latin countries, used to be really bad.

However, keep in mind that these guys ARE the ones who live frugally.

They send their paychecks home. Can you just see your sons doing that to help mom and dad?

I really dont feel badly for anyone, and I dont think they would want you to feel badly either.

Now if this job really cramps your sons lifestyle, maybe he doesnt belong there. Because the struggle IS real.  

I have said this many times, and will again. My son is who he is because of his professional baseball experience.  Yea, he made some bucks at it, but it wasnt about the money. The day it became that, he knew that it was time to walk away.

MiLB players ARE exploited.  Their employers are exempt from  labor laws that apply in every other sphere -- because of their antitrust exemption.  They lack basic labor mobility within baseball -- i.e. cannot sell their labor to the highest bidder. Imagine what salaries in your own field, whatever it is, would be if employers were permitted to collude on wages and workers lacked basic labor mobility and even collective bargaining rights.  If major leaguers were exploited before the days of free agency, minor leaguers are even more so. 

Try making, say, airline pilots work under the thumb of the airlines in the same way that Minor league players do. See what would happen.

Labor solidarity is not a form of pity!

Sounds like the MILB is oppressed.  Where is Kaepernick when you need him!?

Sitting down - get it

real green posted:

I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. 

Utterly disagree. #1: this is a job, and as such, they have a responsibility to themselves and the organization to continue to improve and deliver value back to the organization. #2: the whole point of this topic is that they're responsible for doing what they can to get by on as little as possible while fulfilling #1.

If a young man is not fulfilling either one of these main responsibilities, then he will wash out rather quickly.

+1 Slugger

I'm all about capitalism and paying what the market will bear but these guys are being paid chump change and although it's a dream to play the game, it has a salary, benefits and responsibilities that are all synonymous with a J.O.B. without the compensatory pay scale often found in a competitive business /economic environment. 

Maybe this is baseball's way to weed out guys by/at  a certain age/level and replace them with younger, eager , hungrier & cheaper talent?

Anyone have any ideas on how much they should get paid?  In prior threads, some folks said that they ought to clock in and clock out and get paid by the hour (or at least ensure minimum pay is earned based on hours worked). 

I am of the opinion that $1 is not the same in all cities based on a myriad of circumstances, therefore I would propose some focus on living standards as opposed to cash pay (not that they shouldn't get some additional pay).  Would also promote much larger increases based on service time (does the single A player actually get a $50 monthly raise starting his second year?).

I know this sounds like I am being a "fence rider", but I really am not sure where I fall on this debate.  Is the pay low?  Sure is.  But, as many have stated ( with sons that have been there and done that ) it is a choice.  I agree with that as well.

Someone made a point about MLB clubs having corporate housing that players could use for a specified amount and it would help with moving and breaking a lease or leaving your roommates with covering your part of the rent until they found someone to take over.  That seems like a very good idea to me.  Maybe the clubs could build an apartment complex that could serve something like a dorm.  I also agree that they club should include food and workout facilities for these player as they expect the player to be in top shape.  But as someone also stated, maybe this is the "weeding" process.  The bonus babies really don't have to worry about most of these issues.

The pay is obviously not too low.  If it were, you wouldn't see so many guys willing to work at that pay rate.

Any time one guy finds it too low for his liking, if he retires, the competition for his spot is keen.  Anyone running a business knows that when that's the case, your pay scale is just fine.  I wish the competition were as rabid for openings at my business!  I pay a lot more, too, but apparently young men prefer the baseball line of work.  And they're evidently willing to forgo money for it.

younggun posted:

I know this sounds like I am being a "fence rider", but I really am not sure where I fall on this debate.  Is the pay low?  Sure is.  But, as many have stated ( with sons that have been there and done that ) it is a choice.  I agree with that as well.

Someone made a point about MLB clubs having corporate housing that players could use for a specified amount and it would help with moving and breaking a lease or leaving your roommates with covering your part of the rent until they found someone to take over.  That seems like a very good idea to me.  Maybe the clubs could build an apartment complex that could serve something like a dorm.  I also agree that they club should include food and workout facilities for these player as they expect the player to be in top shape.  But as someone also stated, maybe this is the "weeding" process.  The bonus babies really don't have to worry about most of these issues.

 

Well, cant speak for all organizations but generally housing wasnt an issue. All teams son played for had available options during season and for all milb players during spring training you are provided housing and meals. Once a player moves up someone takes their place.  The tigers and many other organizations have dorms and cafeterias.  

Look at it this way, teams are like college programs, some are very rich and some are not.  Teams are not all equal in their milb systems.

Once a player gets to high A things change.  Florida high A teams play in the teams spring training facilities and travel is good.   Some leagues are tougher than others. Son liked the eastern leagues better than the midwest and west teams.  For the most part HS players have to live where they tell you, and as a parent you should prefer it that way.

Trust me, its not all that bad. Players who really want to be there find a way to make it work. You do need to be a man and figure things out for yourself, thats how it works.  

And you dont need transportation, thats an option. And you will have a gym at your disposal or the nearby gym gives you a great deal!

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/...em-than-the-players/

Maybe in the off season some of these MiLB kids could start umping LL games and work their way up into the MiLB Ump's union one day and start making some real money.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.  Yes, Milb player pay is still really stupid.  However, the ump pay isn't exactly a financial motivator either...  so, with the new improved agreement, the guy who reaches the highest level of the minors after 15 years of service will still be earning less than 48K per year.  Yikes.

Lots of travel.  Does this equate to a full time job for most of these guys?

I'd also say that the chances of advancing from the minors to the majors is just as bad for the umps as the players. Perhaps even harder for the more talented. If your talent is major league level in the minors, you'll make the jump. I'm not sure if it is the same with every umpire - probably more politics there than with players.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/...em-than-the-players/

Maybe in the off season some of these MiLB kids could start umping LL games and work their way up into the MiLB Ump's union one day and start making some real money.

Really umpiring isn't a bad gig if you have the temperament for it.

My kid regularly pulls in $200-300 a week umpiring youth baseball games. When baseball is out of season he does soccer and makes about the same.

I'm surprised that there aren't more college age kids around here doing it.  For me it sure beats waiting tables or cooking Big Macs.

Also saw an article on Bleacher Report about MMA fighting - the headline read along the lines of getting punched in the head for $40k a year.  I'm thinking about writing a sister piece about having a 90 mph fastballs throw at you for $12k a year.  Started reading and saw where these guys have maybe 2 bouts a year and some can get something like $50k extra if they drop the other fighter - now their making $90k. for maybe 15 minutes in the ring and maybe 1,500 hours of training.  

My kid thought about umping but lucked into a job at a local golf course.  I wanted to get him a job roofing in the summer but they they don't hire teenagers to do that anymore.  Now he is a part time marshall, part time cart washer, part time food critic and loves nothing more than to take a cart out for a spin.  He's hoping for a promotion this summer - maybe full time marshall.

If you got rid of the team's ability to tie up  "employees" via the draft etc. you would see how much they are really worth.  I suspect we would find on average they are worth more then 1,500 per month....for 6 months.  We pay our  interns more then milb players.

Poor things.  We pay about $1500 per month for my kid to play in college.

SultanofSwat posted:

Poor things.  We pay about $1500 per month for my kid to play in college.

Very insightful.

If anyone plans any career in baseball, the bottom is where everyone will begin.  

Its how you embrace your opportunity.

Most of all you have to love what you are doing.

NOT  a simple issue for sure. But it is totally the choice of the player. That is why I am an avid supporter of kids going to college and not signing right out of high school unless they get a nice sized signing bonus. Yes , they are kids but after a few years they become men. Men who must earna living and support themselves and eventually a family. 

"Chasing the dream" makes some people do things they otherwise would never do. No parent would suggest to his adult son that he settle for making 1500 month instead of getting or finishing a college degree unless there was a long term goal and dream attached to the decision.

TPM posted:

SultanofSwat posted:

Poor things.  We pay about $1500 per month for my kid to play in college.

Very insightful.

If anyone plans any career in baseball, the bottom is where everyone will begin.  

Its how you embrace your opportunity.

Most of all you have to love what you are doing.

Full tuition & board PLUS $1,500 each month?  WOW!  I thought most college players played for free and many of them actually got discounted room & board to boot.

Never got a 50% raise, but I imagine I could do some big things if I did.  For you typical young MiLB player, a 50% raise (say from $1,200/mo to $1,800/mo), they too could do big things - like get their own bedroom in that 3BR apartment they share instead of having to double up (use the blow up mattress for guests going forward).  Maybe they could incrementally improve their diet.  Maybe they could afford to sign up for a few classes during offseason to keep working towards a degree.  That huge increase would take their baseball earnings from around $10k annually to a whopping $15k annually.  I'm all for character building, but I just don't really get how getting paid the current ridiculously low wages makes good sense.  

Maybe folks just love hearing the funny stories about all the creative ways kids come up with to survive.  $15k a year is not going to make many folks complacent, but rather would allow these kids to focus a little more on baseball and less on finding new hiding spots for their peanut butter.

I am of course not privy to how things operate everywhere.  But I can tell you around here minor leaguers can make good money giving lessons. They could also officiate basketball during the winter. These are two things that are easily accomplished. They are begging for officials. These are also two part time jobs that would dovetail incredibly easily with their minor league baseball career. So let's stop pretending that they 'have to' survive on their minor league salary alone. My son would sign for a stick of gum for that type of opportunity. It is an opportunity he is almost 100% certain to never get. Those who will never get that incredible opportunity don't want to hear the whining from those who do. If it's such a hardship don't do it!  Leave it to some kid who would kill for the opportunity and won't complain!!!

If it's such a hardship don't do it!  Leave it to some kid who would kill for the opportunity and won't complain!!!

If my kid were ever to be given the opportunity, believe me I would be helping out in an effort to ensure that he has the best chance of making it up the ladder.  That said, our personal take on the matter is somewhat beside the point.  Simply put, the time commitment and length of contract a profession baseball player has put upon them should require some higher level of compensation.  As a few articles have pointed out, most everyone working at the MiLB stadiums is probably making more than the early year players themselves.  Throw in equipment requirements, training and the possibility that you are told to report to work during the off-season with no extra pay just begs for a little higher pay scale (don't get the lawyer started talking about minimum wage laws as a minimum starting point- that would probably give these guys a solid 100% pay raise day 1).  I'll gladly listen to the parents who have had sons go through the process and maybe point out some real life stories of how to make the pay stretch, but I don't really think us outsiders should have this opinion that MiLB is some gap year fling where you stay in hostels while seeing the world.  The comment that you don't want to hear them whine because your kid probably won't get the chance is not a compelling argument.

Anyone know what the smallest signing bonus was for which a team sued for "desertion" before the 7 years was up?

Aren't basically all expenses paid (travel, hotel, food)? Still not great of  course but you can probably survive if you don't have a family or wife has a job.

Dominik85 posted:

Aren't basically all expenses paid (travel, hotel, food)? Still not great of  course but you can probably survive if you don't have a family or wife has a job.

Nope. When you're on the road, yeah, you get a per diem. Some clubs do better than others at providing food in the clubhouse. While your travel is taken care of, it isn't like you can get a place to live that only requires you to pay rent on the days you're in town.

Food is not paid for (dues pays for game food and can vary greatly according to folks on here).  Hotel is  paid for, but that does not relieve the player of having to have a permanent residence, so no real benefit.  MiLB umpires new contract says hotels must have interior entrances - guessing MiLB has no such restrictions and not much fun bunking with someone at the cozy Motel 6 (or worse, the Acme Motel).  Travel is free and they give you lots of it, although I don't think the buses have free WiFi yet.  I will admit they pay you enough to survive, but should that really be the case?  I do think it is highly foolish to get married and start a family while chasing this dream unless the spouse has solid employment and is on board with the journey.  It's like these guys have reached that last camp on Mt Everest before reaching the summit, at which point they are told to turn off their oxygen and take off their parkas so they can see who really wants to make the summit.  I think they simply deserve a little more for the work they put in and the entertainment (as a group) they provide at the MiLB and help support at the MLB level.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

If it's such a hardship don't do it!  Leave it to some kid who would kill for the opportunity and won't complain!!!

If my kid were ever to be given the opportunity, believe me I would be helping out in an effort to ensure that he has the best chance of making it up the ladder.  That said, our personal take on the matter is somewhat beside the point.  Simply put, the time commitment and length of contract a profession baseball player has put upon them should require some higher level of compensation.  As a few articles have pointed out, most everyone working at the MiLB stadiums is probably making more than the early year players themselves.  Throw in equipment requirements, training and the possibility that you are told to report to work during the off-season with no extra pay just begs for a little higher pay scale (don't get the lawyer started talking about minimum wage laws as a minimum starting point- that would probably give these guys a solid 100% pay raise day 1).  I'll gladly listen to the parents who have had sons go through the process and maybe point out some real life stories of how to make the pay stretch, but I don't really think us outsiders should have this opinion that MiLB is some gap year fling where you stay in hostels while seeing the world.  The comment that you don't want to hear them whine because your kid probably won't get the chance is not a compelling argument.

Anyone know what the smallest signing bonus was for which a team sued for "desertion" before the 7 years was up?

As any lawyer knows we ALL have a right to express ourselves. And doctors don't need to be an open heart surgery patient to understand how to be an open heart surgeon. I don't have to have 'been there done that' to have an informed and educated opinion.  It's a free country for they don't want the opportunity they can pass it to someone who does. 

To all those who somehow think that because it's baseball (the "dream"), an employee should be thankful for earning $4/hr, would you think the same way if your kid who got his dream job on Wall Street, Apple, Amazon or whatever, should be thankful about earning the same $4/hr?

What is it about baseball that makes this job different? Is it the fact that teams collectively agree to pay these wages, prohibit the players from marketing their talent in a free market, control their lives 24/7/365 without paying for it - what is the magic here?  Kids who play pro-ball spent over a decade developing their talent into the top amateurs in the world - and simply don't get paid even minimum wage. Meanwhile, the kid who learned computer programming over that decade steps out of school for a six figure job. The competition for those top jobs are just as fierce, yet free markets dictate the terms of these contracts; but, somehow, baseball is different (maybe because it's the same game as he played since he was old enough walk).

While playing proball is a great experience and can be used as a stepping stone to all sorts of jobs - inside and outside of baseball, it is a tough road and often subsidized by parents. Simply put, baseball has succeeded in off loading the overhead to those parents who love watching their sons play a familiar game.

An industry run my billionaires off loading the cost of health clubs, lessons, even baseball gloves and cleats to middle class parents. Kudos to the system!

2020dad posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

If it's such a hardship don't do it!  Leave it to some kid who would kill for the opportunity and won't complain!!!

If my kid were ever to be given the opportunity, believe me I would be helping out in an effort to ensure that he has the best chance of making it up the ladder.  That said, our personal take on the matter is somewhat beside the point.  Simply put, the time commitment and length of contract a profession baseball player has put upon them should require some higher level of compensation.  As a few articles have pointed out, most everyone working at the MiLB stadiums is probably making more than the early year players themselves.  Throw in equipment requirements, training and the possibility that you are told to report to work during the off-season with no extra pay just begs for a little higher pay scale (don't get the lawyer started talking about minimum wage laws as a minimum starting point- that would probably give these guys a solid 100% pay raise day 1).  I'll gladly listen to the parents who have had sons go through the process and maybe point out some real life stories of how to make the pay stretch, but I don't really think us outsiders should have this opinion that MiLB is some gap year fling where you stay in hostels while seeing the world.  The comment that you don't want to hear them whine because your kid probably won't get the chance is not a compelling argument.

Anyone know what the smallest signing bonus was for which a team sued for "desertion" before the 7 years was up?

As any lawyer knows we ALL have a right to express ourselves. And doctors don't need to be an open heart surgery patient to understand how to be an open heart surgeon. I don't have to have 'been there done that' to have an informed and educated opinion.  It's a free country for they don't want the opportunity they can pass it to someone who does. 

I guess I got a little sidetracked when you used the term "whining" - kind of dismisses the "informed and educated" opinions of those apparently living the dream.  I guess they should suck it up so they can keep living that dream.

I think a lot of the guys "whining" aren't really looking to make a killing and probably don't expect much benefit themselves, but would prefer players going forward be able to have decent accommodations and decent nutrition.  Kind of sad when you have a competitive advantage in the workplace cause daddy sends you some extra money to live on every month.

Goosegg posted:

To all those who somehow think that because it's baseball (the "dream"), an employee should be thankful for earning $4/hr, would you think the same way if your kid who got his dream job on Wall Street, Apple, Amazon or whatever, should be thankful about earning the same $4/hr?

What is it about baseball that makes this job different? Is it the fact that teams collectively agree to pay these wages, prohibit the players from marketing their talent in a free market, control their lives 24/7/365 without paying for it - what is the magic here?  Kids who play pro-ball spent over a decade developing their talent into the top amateurs in the world - and simply don't get paid even minimum wage. Meanwhile, the kid who learned computer programming over that decade steps out of school for a six figure job. The competition for those top jobs are just as fierce, yet free markets dictate the terms of these contracts; but, somehow, baseball is different (maybe because it's the same game as he played since he was old enough walk).

Excellent Point....I'll add to it.  Every kid my son knows graduated from HS....so there's everyone is equal to that point.   Most of his friends (including him) are attending a four year college....so still even right??   He's a sophomore....he and a lot of kids haven't decided on a major yet...so yes, all square to this point.  Next year, his friends will declare a major and take classes for their major for 2 years....for the sake of this argument we'll say accounting.   At the end of their senior year, those accounting kids will head off to a job paying $50k-ish/year.   All for basically 2 years of specialized classes....the first 14 were just like everyone else's right??

A baseball kid who's going to get drafted after his senior year has probably put in at least 6-8 years of work honing his craft, whether it's pitching, hitting, fielding....whatever....IN ADDITION TO HIS SCHOOL.  He's given up his summers, his after school time in the winter, his entire spring and likely most of his fall....IN ADDITION TO HIS SCHOOL.   If he is lucky, he'll get a signing bonus....likely in the $10k-20K range for most players.   Then he gets to start working for What amounts to $10K/year....while his friends are making $50k......Same amount of school, same classes, but a completely different outcome.   Sure, he has a chance to earn millions someday.....so does his friend at the accounting office.  But it if it takes him 8 years to get to the majors, his income to that point will be somewhere around $300K less than his friend who has a big house, 2 cars and a place at the lake.  

Don't get me wrong, as others have said, baseball players know going in what they are getting in to.  I've got a couple years and if things go right, this may be a decision my son has to make.  I can tell you right now that it's gonna be a fight.  He'll want to play ball, I'll be for him giving it a shot, but his mother, the big whig marketing wiz with a huge company making big $$$ will tell him to join his friends in the accounting department and get on with his life.....lol    I guess we'll see how it goes