Interesting read for all those who have kids who are there, been there, going there and dreaming about going there:
http://deadspin.com/how-to-get...0-a-month-1784998121
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On a related note, the court threw out the MILB suit and the players lawyers' surrendered. If MLB desires, it could now actually cut MILB salaries.
Roughly $33 a day after rent. Not sure if the rent includes heat / air. But they get to eat 6 of 21 meals (in clubhouse of home games) free, if I read that correctly but do have to pay for food when they are away in clubhouse?. I know a lot of people that work minimum wage ($8.10 / hour) for far less a day to live on. That being said, I think it is ludicrous that they are not paid during spring training. I would assume they cannot work another job during that time, so money is just being spent without being replaced by wages. I, also, think that having to pay clubhouse dues on that wage is silly. The club needs to pick that up.
My son hopes to be in that situation in a few years. Right now in college he lives on about $30 a day after rent and does fine.
I can tell you in my early 20's, I have multiple roommates and lived pretty simply because I was just starting out in my career. Somehow I always found money for pizza and beer 
.
I do think they clubs should invest in these guys with a year round salary
Two words - host family! :-)
hshuler posted:Two words - host family! :-)
VERY VERY true. College summer teams do it all the time. In my son's case the one time he has done that so far, the team gave the host family season tickets in return
Regarding "host family", I love that set up for summer college and for youth international travel but this is supposed to be professional (i.e. - paid) baseball. I think that when the need for host families comes into the conversation regarding MILB, that is a clear indicator that the pay scale is insufficient.
Also, the season is a heck of a lot longer and the players are older. I could see a lot of potential pitfalls. I don't know. I think I've heard that some do that now??
Host families are not free.
Roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of a player's gross pay goes to the host family; for that players get a bed, in most families (but not all) decent food, and no lease (so the player isn't on the hook when reassigned). Most host families are wonderful and wind up losing money on the food end; some are in it for the few extra dollars. The bad ones are usually weeded out - as players wont live with that family once word gets around.
Also, since rent is due up front and before the player even gets a pay check, a player's family is the bank of last resort.
hshuler posted:Two words - host family! :-)
Host families are provided less often than you might expect. Through our 2 sons and a total now (including this year) of 9 minor league seasons and 10 teams they have together had a host family (supplying housing) a total of 2 times (food and shelter).
One other time, the older one had a host family who were wonderful people but supplied snacks for the road trips, an occasional dinner and friendly companionship (no housing).
I remember when our older son was first promoted to double-A. Shipped out with no car in the middle of the season - they gave him a 3-day hotel voucher and told him to 'figure out the rest.' He ended up sleeping on the couch of a teammate the rest of the summer.
No complaints. I believe they both have learned a lot from it and do not complain about it. But it just is the way it is. They have other options - both graduated from college with job offers - its a choice they made and continue to make.
I will tell you this - I sure as heck don't have $30 or $33 a day leftover after my bills! Four kids at home. I would kill for that kind of money. If a young single guy can't live on $1500 a month there is something seriously wrong.
From what I've been able to piece together, the article seems to pick a relatively "cozy" 7 days for a player in a low cost area. I have a feeling that the particular week chosen does not simply repeat itself 52x year and the guy socks away $10k in savings every year. Getting 2 meals free every day is the exception as is the absence of clubhouse dues. What happens when one of the roommate guys gets sent up or released (could be the guy paying the cable bill) - that's got to hurt. Any amount set aside for electricity and water - are both included in the rent? Then there are the unpaid weeks (spring training) and the off season where these guys are trying to secure seasonal jobs while having to pay for gym memberships and all of their meals. I got a feeling these same four guys aren't all going to be spending their offseason in Augusta.
I would not go so far as to say Single A ball ought to pay enough to raise a family, but something like abolishing clubhouse dues across the board AND providing 14 meals/week should be standard - especially when factoring in the benefits of a solid diet. Also think there should be significant housing support - something along the lines of subsidized corporate housing where individual players don't end up having to sign leases. Given them some options and charge the player a reasonable amount - maybe even have them one to a bedroom. Charge them rent weekly (payroll deduction) but let them walk away when needed and not have their departure place a burden on the remaining roommates.
Final observation - the guy can survive in Augusta, GA without a car - pretty amazing. Also guess he didn't use his Tracfone that week.
2020dad posted:I will tell you this - I sure as heck don't have $30 or $33 a day leftover after my bills! Four kids at home. I would kill for that kind of money. If a young single guy can't live on $1500 a month there is something seriously wrong.
I don't think $30 a day is leftover. That $ would include food, gas, insurance, phone, possibly heat/ac, any kinds of school loans, credit cards, clothing, etc. That being said, I know lots of folks that live on less than $1500 a month. They just don't have much luxuries.
What I think is the shame (and wrong) is during spring training and any other expected baseball times, that they are not paid for their time. My son, the college player, works out roughly 20-30 hours a week to get / stay in baseball condition to compete for his spot. He does have time for a 25-30 hours summer job. I'm thinking the same thing for the guys in MiLB to tide them over. But the season is only 5-6 month long when they are getting paid. But there is another 3 where they are expected to be somewhere for the team (spring training, etc) and should be paid for that, because during that time they cannot get another job.
2017LHPscrewball said it so much better than I did
No doubt it would be nice for MLB to do more for their Minot leaguers. We would all agree there I am sure. But thes young men know the score coming in. And know their dream at a young age. Goes back to what has been discussed on here before regarding student loans etc. do your best to not have them! Seldom do our dreams actually come true. So maybe you settle for the local juco for two years then a less expensive college and come out with no debt. When did cable become a need rather than a want? Minimize your cell phone plan. If this MLB dream is REALLY that important you will find ways. Get down to what is really necessary and you will live on $1500 a month quite easily. If I had no wife and kids I could do that right now without even an issue.
if they get a signing bonus and can live off that for a bit great! If they can't mom/dad/grandpa/grandma is footing over half the bills...it's like a really long college program. I don't plan on cutting my kids off when they turn 18, if they need a phone, clothing, or food I don't have a problem keeping them on my phone plan or sending them a wal-mart giftcard where they can buy food and underwear...I just hope they don't put them in the same bag...*shudder*
They are boys- underwear and food will go in the same bag 
. Truth is my kids are all still on my phone plan- just cheaper for them. They do pay if they are working and we cover if they are not. Same with health insurance, it makes no sense that they are not on my family plan as long as possible. Doesn't cost me a dime more.
2020dad posted:No doubt it would be nice for MLB to do more for their Minot leaguers. We would all agree there I am sure. But thes young men know the score coming in. And know their dream at a young age. Goes back to what has been discussed on here before regarding student loans etc. do your best to not have them! Seldom do our dreams actually come true. So maybe you settle for the local juco for two years then a less expensive college and come out with no debt. When did cable become a need rather than a want? Minimize your cell phone plan. If this MLB dream is REALLY that important you will find ways. Get down to what is really necessary and you will live on $1500 a month quite easily. If I had no wife and kids I could do that right now without even an issue.
Kids (young men) have been finding ways for years, it is just getting a little harder each year given the lack of any increase in base pay along with the increased demands on a player's time, both in-season and off-season. And besides, $1,500 is pre-tax and there are probably lots of states and municipalities that have athlete taxes where it becomes cost prohibitive to hire some CPA to file for refunds. Tack on some mandatory club dues - without some good meals to show for it - and have a few roommates leave in the middle of the night, then the bills start stacking up. Add 6-8 weeks when you get zero salary (some sort of per diem during spring training) along with the risks that go with trying to line up a job that coincides exactly with the off-season, it soon becomes apparent that these young men are not getting some steady paycheck every two weeks - nor do they really have any control over which area of the country the live (how about getting move from low cost Augusta, GA to Sacremento, CA - good luck finding cheap housing right next to the ballpark so so don't need that car). $1,500 per month sounds good but they have to hustle all year to maintain that as an average monthly income.
If you want to argue that the financial struggle is part of the process, then so be it. Maybe it builds character. Personally, I'd prefer some of the day-to-day struggle get removed (access to housing, good dietary options, pay structure to extend to all periods where no outside employment is possible). I won't go into whether they are actually paid sufficiently to meet minimum wage standards, I'm just thinking MLB owners could waive their magic wand and get some of these aggravating struggles taken care of with minimal effort or cost on MLB's part.
CaCO3Girl posted:if they get a signing bonus and can live off that for a bit great! If they can't mom/dad/grandpa/grandma is footing over half the bills...it's like a really long college program. I don't plan on cutting my kids off when they turn 18, if they need a phone, clothing, or food I don't have a problem keeping them on my phone plan or sending them a wal-mart giftcard where they can buy food and underwear...I just hope they don't put them in the same bag...*shudder*
Our younger son signed for very little. 23rd round college senior draft pick. No leverage. He used most of his signing bonus for a down payment on a used vehicle. We co-signed for him, but we've never made one payment. Even though we have the means, we haven't succumbed to that parental temptation. Haven't paid for his phone or car insurance, gas, food...anything. He got a speeding ticket - he paid. His phone broke, he figured out how to get it fixed. In the off season he worked 60 hours a week to save up for the season. In fact, we told him while we wouldn't let him lay in a ditch if he fell in, we don't plan to pay for anything.
I think twice we sent him $200 just as a gift. Once in Spring Training when they don't get paid. He didn't expect it, nor ask for it....we just did it to give him a small break. He is learning to be a real, independent, self-sufficient adult. Its good.
He graduated from college with great grades and a good degree and had multiple job offers. He wanted to pursue pro baseball for $1200/month. His choice. I applaud him. But the choice needs to be clear for him to not pursue this too long if it isn't going well - or to keep going if he loves it enough. We don't want him hanging on just because.
He's a great son - if anyone has 'earned' the right to get stuff from mom and dad - its him. But he doesn't even want it. And he is learning all about budgeting, life and choices. Our society is getting a strong, self sufficient, hard working, kind and good young man out of the other end of this. I'm so darned proud of him - it would be hard to describe. He knows that. We have a terrific relationship. Its all good. He will be fine.
Millions of senior citizens, disabled citizens, disabled veterans, factory workers, office workers etc etc etc live off 1,500 a month pre tax and almost none of them are doing something they love for a living.
Two jobs ago I was a production manager in a teir 2 automotive plant. Over 1,000 shop employees and not 1 of them making over 1,500 a month and that's 10 hours a day in a hot as crap factory. Pretty sure all of them would trade and take a pay cut to spend the day on a baseball field.
Do I think they should get more? Yes because their owners make a whole lot more but they get a deaf ear when the whining starts. Sorry
Baseball isn't "the game of baseball" at the professional level. Baseball is "the business of baseball" at the pro level.
That single word difference - to those who know - cannot be understated. For many pro players, the best time they had was college baseball. At the pro level, it's a job - and a hard, underpaid job with little hope of the future, with your health at risk, and time ticking. Pro ball is more akin to a shark tank; college ball is - well, college ball!
I was offered a GA position coming out of college, where I'd be working with a D1 football team and going to school. $10k stipend plus tuition paid for. Turned it down. Next year received an offer for a GA position for $10k plus tuition for 6 of 9 credit hours each semester. I had to pay the other 3 credit hours. That $10k would have become about $6k. Again, to work in D1 athletics. Turned it down.
All about choices sometimes. Sports are just like everything else... the top makes good money and the workers at the bottom don't...
Great discussion. Theoretically, in a free market economy with supply and demand constraints nobody is over paid or under paid. The market will self correct when disparities occur.
Simply put, enough players continue to play for $1500 a month to maintain the status quo. When players stop playing, the salary will go up. If more want to play, the salary will go down.
My own turned down an opportunity to play MiLB after his senior year in college for a part time internship at $25/hour while he finishes his engineering degree during his "super senior" year. He'll be a part time coach for his college team when he isn't working, so he'll be able to ease away from the game gradually.
For every kid like him, there are probably two who chased the dream. I wish them all good luck.
Scotty83 posted:Millions of senior citizens, disabled citizens, disabled veterans, factory workers, office workers etc etc etc live off 1,500 a month pre tax and almost none of them are doing something they love for a living.
Two jobs ago I was a production manager in a teir 2 automotive plant. Over 1,000 shop employees and not 1 of them making over 1,500 a month and that's 10 hours a day in a hot as crap factory. Pretty sure all of them would trade and take a pay cut to spend the day on a baseball field.
Do I think they should get more? Yes because their owners make a whole lot more but they get a deaf ear when the whining starts. Sorry
The problem is this is an apple to oranges comparison - no-skill minimum wage factory jobs vs. a professional occupation where only a handful of those who would like the job have the applicable skills. I also have to assume, for the math to work, that those 10 hour a day jobs were not five days/wk, they probably got at least some vacation time and they didn't work in an environment where the guys in the jobs a level up had strong union representation while they were denied the same.
I think it might be wise to understand that the value of $1500 a month really depends on where you live. $1500 goes a lot further in Missoula MT than it does in Las Vegas, for instance. If you are playing for the Biloxi Shuckers your money might go further than if you are playing for the Durham Bulls, as another example
A couple of points...
As 3AND2 points out, a whole lot depends on where you are playing. I would agree that $1,500 is probably more than enough if you land in the right spot and get some of the logistics ironed out for you (for instance, several friendly landlords or heaven forbid corporate housing next door to stadium). My point is less about the dollars involved, and more about the stress of having to manage it given all the moving parts (transfers, roommate transfers, lining up off season work, etc). Also, $1,500/mo is not $1,500/mo every month. Maybe six months of MiLB salary, 2 months unpaid during spring training and other downtime and another 4 months hopefully working an off-season job - in that scenario it averages out to $1,250/mo.
As for the tier 2 auto plant two jobs ago, that guy must have a long work history. Assuming 40 hr week, that puts these workers making $8.50/hr - not much higher than minimum wage unless we are talking about 20-30 years ago at which point the numbers are irrelavent to today's discussion. Upside is that they get that salary 12 months out of the year and they know exactly where they are living during those 12 months - kind of simplifies life and makes the money go alot further. If the town has a few such plants, then the workers can in fact go elsewhere if the pay is deemed unfair (MiLB is sort of like a small town with a single mill where everybody has to work - or leave town). Not sure what 1,000 folks were doing for minimum wage at an auto parts supplier, but my experience is the fringe guys might be making minimum (while they sweep the floors) but lots were making 2x that amount (basic machine operators) with the truly skilled folks making 3-4x that amount (know how much a skilled mold maker makes these days?). I personally want to be a unionized longshoreman in LA making $100K+ with aspirations of becoming one of the crane operators possibly making twice that (kind of reminds me of the MLBPA).
I don't think that players make $1,500/mo until AA. I think starting salaries are around $1,200/mo or even less.
So, $1,200 less FICA and Medicare and other state fees (e.g., disability) leaves around $1050. Subtract $350 for rent (host family; an arms length apartment is far more and carries some form of lease), $150 for club house dues, add $350 for road per diem and a player has $900 for the month. The player will pay for roughly 60 meals per month himself. Assume $8/meal (great high quality protein cannot be purchased for that; but a steady diet of Big Macs can) leaves roughly $420. From that $420, the player pays gas, insurance, etc. - $15/day for everything beyond room and food.
Now, you can insist that your player doesnt need the post-game beer (to come down from the during-game chew) and can live on air and love for the game alone; but, that player is the exception not the rule.
And the player is also required - required mind you - to file a state income tax return in EVERY single state he player. Try finding an accountant to do that for some small sum - so it's mom and dad on the phone with multiple state tax entities trying to navigate the maze.
On top of that, the player's cost in the off-season skyrockets as he is contractually required to remain in first class physical condition, must take his skill lessons, live somewhere (mom/dad - so long as the town has the personal coaches needed), eat, pay for the car, insurance, cell phone, etc.. Of course, the player can work around his 4 - 6 hours a day needed for baseball - but the jobs available are limited (coaching, manual labor).
A player living in an apartment is far worse off financially.
Also, while most employers look upon the baseball experience positively, the technical skills the player had during college (e.g., the ability to be fluent in EXCEL) all but disappear in several years in all areas except baseball.
IMO, chase the dream with your eyes wide open. Pursue the dream - but realize it's a dream and position yourself accordingly (good college grades, good college major, max MLB scholarship money possible (for those who get it), network for the future in college). For parents, recognize how much you are willing to subsidize the dream (a pro athlete can eat a lot of good protein, needs a car to get to work and play and gas and insurance, a phone, showers a lot, needs to join a work out facility, pay for lessons, etc.) and has a limited ability to bring in income.
For us, except for college tuition, his living expense INCREASED when compared to college.
I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. They are given the chance to play a game. When I was that age I was chasing adrenaline making just enough money to ski daily through the winter and mountian bike through the summer.
real green posted:I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. They are given the chance to play a game. When I was that age I was chasing adrenaline making just enough money to ski daily through the winter and mountian bike through the summer.
This is an argument that would have worked well concerning major league contracts 50+ years ago. I also have always had a problem with the argument that the amount one is paid for their labor should be based on anything other than the worth of that labor - in this case the idea that a lack of responsibilities such as a family to support should somehow lessen the value of their work. Bottom line is that professional baseball is a business and the players are skilled workers who obtained at least some of those rare skills through hard work and sacrifice. To say they should be paid the same as the kid who walks down to McDonald's and gets a non-skilled position flipping burgers is an insult. The fact that they like their job shouldn't diminish its value. If pay is attached to how much one loves his job, sewage workers should be paid extraordinary wages.
roothog66 posted:Scotty83 posted:Millions of senior citizens, disabled citizens, disabled veterans, factory workers, office workers etc etc etc live off 1,500 a month pre tax and almost none of them are doing something they love for a living.
Two jobs ago I was a production manager in a teir 2 automotive plant. Over 1,000 shop employees and not 1 of them making over 1,500 a month and that's 10 hours a day in a hot as crap factory. Pretty sure all of them would trade and take a pay cut to spend the day on a baseball field.
Do I think they should get more? Yes because their owners make a whole lot more but they get a deaf ear when the whining starts. Sorry
The problem is this is an apple to oranges comparison - no-skill minimum wage factory jobs vs. a professional occupation where only a handful of those who would like the job have the applicable skills. I also have to assume, for the math to work, that those 10 hour a day jobs were not five days/wk, they probably got at least some vacation time and they didn't work in an environment where the guys in the jobs a level up had strong union representation while they were denied the same.
Actually the union thing kinda makes it a better example lol. Tier 2 are generally not unionized (which was the case where I worked) and are paid much lower. Teir 1 plants are unionized and make 3 to 4 times more. Although we could probably increase production if the best workers could get promoted from tier 2 up to tier 1. Sorry production joke.
I understand a minor league player is a skilled labor position. But just like I'd tell employees I've had that made 1500 or less a month. If you don't like it do something else I don't want to hear you whine about it.
roothog66 posted:real green posted:I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. They are given the chance to play a game. When I was that age I was chasing adrenaline making just enough money to ski daily through the winter and mountian bike through the summer.
This is an argument that would have worked well concerning major league contracts 50+ years ago. I also have always had a problem with the argument that the amount one is paid for their labor should be based on anything other than the worth of that labor - in this case the idea that a lack of responsibilities such as a family to support should somehow lessen the value of their work. Bottom line is that professional baseball is a business and the players are skilled workers who obtained at least some of those rare skills through hard work and sacrifice. To say they should be paid the same as the kid who walks down to McDonald's and gets a non-skilled position flipping burgers is an insult. The fact that they like their job shouldn't diminish its value. If pay is attached to how much one loves his job, sewage workers should be paid extraordinary wages.
Define worth and skill? The fact that they are skilled doesn't mean it has value. How much "$$$$" does an average skilled A (entry level pro baseball skill set) level ball player bring into MLB? The answer is less than what they are paid. It's my understanding that MLB pays for the players, coaches, and staff in return they receive a small percentage of the ticket sales. While the MiLB pays for the facility and receives the advertising, concessions, ticket revenues. I know our local MiLB loses money every year and they get a bulk of the proceeds. Lets look at the independent league to get a real look at the value of the product. It looks like they have a salary cap of $100K and a minimum of $800 a month. So if your talent/skill level puts butts in seats to purchase $10 beers and $5 Hot dogs you get paid $100K. If no one knows your name your value is $800 a month.
The talent that MLB thinks will payoff (fill seats) gets paid with a signing bonus. It seems to me they get paid exactly what they are worth. Just because the top end (highly skilled) of an organization is making millions doesn't mean the entry level worker deserves a bigger piece.
2017LHPscrewball posted:A couple of points...
As 3AND2 points out, a whole lot depends on where you are playing. I would agree that $1,500 is probably more than enough if you land in the right spot and get some of the logistics ironed out for you (for instance, several friendly landlords or heaven forbid corporate housing next door to stadium). My point is less about the dollars involved, and more about the stress of having to manage it given all the moving parts (transfers, roommate transfers, lining up off season work, etc). Also, $1,500/mo is not $1,500/mo every month. Maybe six months of MiLB salary, 2 months unpaid during spring training and other downtime and another 4 months hopefully working an off-season job - in that scenario it averages out to $1,250/mo.
As for the tier 2 auto plant two jobs ago, that guy must have a long work history. Assuming 40 hr week, that puts these workers making $8.50/hr - not much higher than minimum wage unless we are talking about 20-30 years ago at which point the numbers are irrelavent to today's discussion. Upside is that they get that salary 12 months out of the year and they know exactly where they are living during those 12 months - kind of simplifies life and makes the money go alot further. If the town has a few such plants, then the workers can in fact go elsewhere if the pay is deemed unfair (MiLB is sort of like a small town with a single mill where everybody has to work - or leave town). Not sure what 1,000 folks were doing for minimum wage at an auto parts supplier, but my experience is the fringe guys might be making minimum (while they sweep the floors) but lots were making 2x that amount (basic machine operators) with the truly skilled folks making 3-4x that amount (know how much a skilled mold maker makes these days?). I personally want to be a unionized longshoreman in LA making $100K+ with aspirations of becoming one of the crane operators possibly making twice that (kind of reminds me of the MLBPA).
7 years ago and all shop employees made minimum wage plus production which would get the hardest worker up to 1,500 a month.
Two jobs ago would mean at most three jobs. I don't know anyone that hasn't had at least three jobs unless daddy gave them their job.
I agree it's a regional thing both for the player and their cost of living. As well as readers of the article and the perception they have about 1,500 a month. There are a lot of really poor parts of this county with a lot of really poor people.
real green posted:I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. They are given the chance to play a game. When I was that age I was chasing adrenaline making just enough money to ski daily through the winter and mountian bike through the summer.
I get what you're saying, but these guys are pursuing their career and earning a living in their desired career path. Not working gigs between summer biking and winter skiing. You are basically describing partying a couple of years before getting serious about pursuing your career vs. the actual undertaking of trying to make a living. At some point you stopped chasing adrenaline and settled into making a life for yourself (I assume, maybe you're posting this from a mountain somewhere)
Very different in that you could choose to work more and ski less if financial need dictated. These guys can't hold down a second job while playing MiLB.
As for your subsequent comments about skill and value, as well as Scotty's, the fact of the matter is that MLB all but has a monopoly and is exempt from antitrust laws. They are taking full advantage of that exemption with their MiLB system
Nuke83 posted:real green posted:I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. They are given the chance to play a game. When I was that age I was chasing adrenaline making just enough money to ski daily through the winter and mountian bike through the summer.
I get what you're saying, but these guys are pursuing their career and earning a living in their desired career path. Not working gigs between summer biking and winter skiing. You are basically describing partying a couple of years before getting serious about pursuing your career vs. the actual undertaking of trying to make a living. At some point you stopped chasing adrenaline and settled into making a life for yourself (I assume, maybe you're posting this from a mountain somewhere)
Very different in that you could choose to work more and ski less if financial need dictated. These guys can't hold down a second job while playing MiLB.
As for your subsequent comments about skill and value, as well as Scotty's, the fact of the matter is that MLB all but has a monopoly and is exempt from antitrust laws. They are taking full advantage of that exemption with their MiLB system
I don't see it that different. When I was skiing I thought I had a shot to make a living. Glen Plake, Scott Schmidt, and the like were role models. They were making good money extreme skiing. When I left the small ski area I grew up on and moved to the "big" area, I soon realized there were 20 other skiers at each resort just as good and better than me. Taking tougher lines and bigger drops. After three years, as fun as it was, it was obvious I had to fall back on plan B and all I was really doing was having fun. Moved back to my hometown finished my degree and moved on to the real world.
I see MiLB career very similar accept they pay you and feed you. Players don't have to go to work after a day at the park to make rent, keep the lights on, and beer in the fridge.
Nuke83 posted:real green posted:I think a big part that we are missing is the fact that we are talking about young men with little responsibility. They are given the chance to play a game. When I was that age I was chasing adrenaline making just enough money to ski daily through the winter and mountian bike through the summer.
As for your subsequent comments about skill and value, as well as Scotty's, the fact of the matter is that MLB all but has a monopoly and is exempt from antitrust laws. They are taking full advantage of that exemption with their MiLB system
Regarding the antitrust laws, how does the Indy league get away with a $800 minimum? I don't have ANY insight on the antitrust laws involved, but based on the court rulings MLB seems to be playing within the current rule set.
Two jobs ago would mean at most three jobs. I don't know anyone that hasn't had at least three jobs unless daddy gave them their job.
SCOTTY83 - Didn't mean to imply that you had numerous jobs, just that maybe you were talking about a job you had in 70's or 80's. If I was one of those workers and saw a sea of 1,000 all working for minimum wage, and guessing the only promotion was to the job you held, I would have run away to somewhere else. No shift supervisor making an extra 50 cents an hour? No 25 cent bump after reaching 2-3 years? Even McDonalds hands out regular raises and has a career path. Would hate to think McDonalds was the premiere employer in town.
Laws and rules as currently interpreted allow MiLB to pay what it does (and I presume Indy league) - something to do with classifying the MiLB player as seasonal workers. You can find all sorts of stories about guys getting stuck with others rent or having to pick and move and maybe end up paying rent in two places for a couple of months (assuming you don't stick it to your old roommates). I would like to think MLB could pick up the tab and help with some of these type costs that can truly wipe out someone's budget through no fault of their own. Might be nice to raise the minimum bar on clubhouse food (instead of what appears to be a wide variance in quality). Could MLB not afford to fund the clubhouse budget outright and dispense with dues?
2017LHPscrewball posted:Two jobs ago would mean at most three jobs. I don't know anyone that hasn't had at least three jobs unless daddy gave them their job.
SCOTTY83 - Didn't mean to imply that you had numerous jobs, just that maybe you were talking about a job you had in 70's or 80's. If I was one of those workers and saw a sea of 1,000 all working for minimum wage, and guessing the only promotion was to the job you held, I would have run away to somewhere else. No shift supervisor making an extra 50 cents an hour? No 25 cent bump after reaching 2-3 years? Even McDonalds hands out regular raises and has a career path. Would hate to think McDonalds was the premiere employer in town.
Laws and rules as currently interpreted allow MiLB to pay what it does (and I presume Indy league) - something to do with classifying the MiLB player as seasonal workers. You can find all sorts of stories about guys getting stuck with others rent or having to pick and move and maybe end up paying rent in two places for a couple of months (assuming you don't stick it to your old roommates). I would like to think MLB could pick up the tab and help with some of these type costs that can truly wipe out someone's budget through no fault of their own. Might be nice to raise the minimum bar on clubhouse food (instead of what appears to be a wide variance in quality). Could MLB not afford to fund the clubhouse budget outright and dispense with dues?
Hahaha not saying it wasn't a crap hole place to work. Like I said former job. Yes there were supervisors, process managers etc. my point was I knew over 1,000 people that made the same or less and unfortunately it was the top place to work. It's probably one of the poorest areas in the state.
Now my job requires me to work a lot with social security recipients. You want to guess how may of them live off of less than 1500 a month.
I have no problem with milb players making more. I think they should. I just don't care for the whining about it when plenty of people do it and it's the best option they have.
justbaseball posted:CaCO3Girl posted:if they get a signing bonus and can live off that for a bit great! If they can't mom/dad/grandpa/grandma is footing over half the bills...it's like a really long college program. I don't plan on cutting my kids off when they turn 18, if they need a phone, clothing, or food I don't have a problem keeping them on my phone plan or sending them a wal-mart giftcard where they can buy food and underwear...I just hope they don't put them in the same bag...*shudder*
Our younger son signed for very little. 23rd round college senior draft pick. No leverage. He used most of his signing bonus for a down payment on a used vehicle. We co-signed for him, but we've never made one payment. Even though we have the means, we haven't succumbed to that parental temptation. Haven't paid for his phone or car insurance, gas, food...anything. He got a speeding ticket - he paid. His phone broke, he figured out how to get it fixed. In the off season he worked 60 hours a week to save up for the season. In fact, we told him while we wouldn't let him lay in a ditch if he fell in, we don't plan to pay for anything.
I think twice we sent him $200 just as a gift. Once in Spring Training when they don't get paid. He didn't expect it, nor ask for it....we just did it to give him a small break. He is learning to be a real, independent, self-sufficient adult. Its good.
He graduated from college with great grades and a good degree and had multiple job offers. He wanted to pursue pro baseball for $1200/month. His choice. I applaud him. But the choice needs to be clear for him to not pursue this too long if it isn't going well - or to keep going if he loves it enough. We don't want him hanging on just because.
He's a great son - if anyone has 'earned' the right to get stuff from mom and dad - its him. But he doesn't even want it. And he is learning all about budgeting, life and choices. Our society is getting a strong, self sufficient, hard working, kind and good young man out of the other end of this. I'm so darned proud of him - it would be hard to describe. He knows that. We have a terrific relationship. Its all good. He will be fine.
I have 2 sons in MiLB and couldn't have said it better myself. And they don't mind the current pay situation - it's all in what you make it. FYI - they do have good healthcare year 'round and that is probably worth as much as their annual salary.
Without naming names, can anyone provide some best case and worst case examples of where an organization either provides good logistical support or where they simply drop you in Timbuktu and let you figure it out on your own? How do host families in rookie ball compare to a typical Cape Cod experience?
Remember seeing some comments in prior threads and some comments here, but figured I'd kick start this for a Friday discussion.
I think it really varies more town-to-town than MLB org-to-org. The drop you in and you figure out scenario has been far more common than the here's your host family scenario for our two sons. By about a 4-1 ratio.
In either case though, somehow they all figure it out.
I guess the upside to having these problems is that it means you made it to the MiLB and are in fact still living the dream.
Ran across an article on some Triple A guys out of Nashville. Hardest part was trying to find affordable housing as well as somewhere that would be flexible on the lease terms - said Craig's list and such were the best sources where you ended up dealing with an individual lessor. Also said the recent stadium upgrade did wonders in using tickets as currency of sorts. The old ballpark was truly crummy and, as such, tickets were of little value. Have heard Nashville rents have gone through the roof during the past 4-5 years so that city might be a good case study. Had a chance to email author of the Deadspin article and she says she wants to do a series of articles, the good outcomes like the first article as well as examples of train wrecks where everything goes wrong, and admits that this initial one-week example was probably flawed in showing the guy winding up with $200 in his pockets as though that happened week-in, week-out.
