injured shoulder...destroyed my chance?

Simply put, this is one of the most disturbing threads I have ever read on here. I worry about the future of this site.

TPM, infielddad, Dad04 and a few others. Thanks for welcoming this young man with a little compassion, dignity and sensible advice.

shippirate - I don't know a thing about you but keep the faith, listen to your doctors and chase your dream. Better to try than to have regrets. And no, you didn't 'do this to yourself.' Good luck!

TR - Quit hiding behind the vail of "blunt." I like blunt, I am blunt myself. You're something different and its blinding your good judgement.

shppirates- You have a PM.

Glad to see how everyone wants to educate me---perhaps some of you need educating

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
infielddad

You insults continue to make me think you have a very serious problem ????????????????????

But then you are in the state where the GOV reportedly goes to work every day in a private jet (did he lose his drivers license)and to ease the budget problems will try to release
25,000 inmates early so as to save money-- Just got to like the thinking on the "left out coast"---OUCH


Taking that into consideration I guess you don't have a problem

What the ????? Very logical

Thanks for the support everyone, I really appreciate it.

Tomorrow I am going to The Hospital for Special Surgery in New York and seeing MD Answorth Allen, after that I will know the extent of the damage and if it requires surgery. Hopefully it'll just be PT and rest...

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

You say this injury destroyed your chances. No it didn't. If you continue to feel sorry for yourself maybe you did. You didn't ask you statedthat the injury destroyed your chances.

Incorrect: injured shoulder...destroyed my chance?

Copied directly out of the topic header. I believe the question mark indicates...a question?
I don't see the young man as feeling sorry for himself. I believe he is asking for information and, God forbid, a little encouragement.

Take Care Shp09, and do what you have to to get well.

shp,
good luck tomorrow. I hope it is a good visit and provides some answers you need on the medical issues.
Keeping a very positive frame of mind will be critical.
By doing that, and working hard, you can end up in the best shape of your life by the end of this.
Will have my fingers crossed for you.
Bill Armstrong

I went to the doctor today, he said that my labral tear was small. Said there is no need for surgery and that I should get over to a physical therapist 2-3x per week. In 6 weeks I will be going back for a follow up visit, and then I will be cleared to throw again

Sounds great!

Make sure you do your therapy!!!!

That is great news, so take care of business and you are back in the saddle.

Awesome news! I don't know if anyone was praying for you, but...

shp,
That is great news for you. Do everything you can to find a therapist who knows baseball, throwing and labrum issues and can guide your PT.
Just so you know, you are not alone, and need to focus on what lies ahead.
Here is the link to a story about our son's roommate from the Lansing Lugnuts Milb team in 2005.
Casey is a terrific guy and a great talent.
He didn't even pitch until his senior year in college.
Ended up being a 4th round pick and moved very quickly to Toronto in 2006. He had a very good year last year.
As you can tell, labrum injuries affect players at all levels. Casey was doing a bullpen with no prior history and he takes great care of himself.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080312&conten...s&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

That is good news.

P16 yes there was a question mark but the way he posed it was negative. How does antone know ?
Fortunately he got the answer from the one who can give him good advice.
Casey Jansen just got sidelined for the rest of the year with a torn labrum. Not his 1st.

quote:

Casey Jansen just got sidelined for the rest of the year with a torn labrum. Not his 1st.

What do you mean "Not his 1st?"
Do you mean not his 1st torn labrum?

According to Ernie Whitt he has struggled with arm injury. Did not specify if it was labrum. He was jsut off rehab recently.
If you were really asking to know I could ask. I doubt that was your intent.

Just to be clear:
Casey appeared in 70 games last year, and nearly the same combined number in 2006 when he moved quickly up to the Jays.
In 2005, he was amazing from day one in Lansing until the 144 game schedule was complete.
Don't think we need anymore.
I posted about Casey because he is a late bloomer as a pitcher, a great kid, tremendous competitor, great teammate, and a very hard worker on conditioning and taking care of himself, and still ends up with a labrum injury.

just thought i would update as to what's been happening with my shoulder:

Went to PT twice, after the examination and doing the specified surgical tubing/stretching the therapist doesn't expect me to be out long at all. Shoulder is very sore...I don't think I have ever used my shoulder so little as I have the past month or so. Well, onto the road to recovery.

Thanks everyone for the prayers, helpful advice and trying to help me out with this situation...even you TR

shp,

That is good news. Make sure you do not slack off on the PT - and good luck with your season!

Good news and good luck to you!

iirc, you are in Union county. I grew up and played at Hillside HS (back in the 70's - its a bit different there now..) My son plays in the same conference as SHP, so I've been following your posts.

Use the spring to get your arm back to 100%, and try to hook up with a good summer/fall team to get you the exposure to the colleges.

Again, good luck!!

shppirate09,
I've been reading along as well.
Pleeeeeeeeeease do your therapy,..keep a positive outlook, and I like your style.

quote:

Thanks everyone for the prayers, helpful advice and trying to help me out with this situation...even you TR

Now thats a GREAT kid!!!

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to post an update on my progress; Over the past couple weeks I have been going to physical therapy 2-3x per week. I have finally begun to experience the pain associated with PT...the therapist said that the pain means that progress is being made and the areas around the SLAP tear are being strengthened. I have done the home exercises to the point that I was told to do less.

The best news that I have gotten so far is the PT therapist saying that he thinks that I can begin throwing...RIGHT NOW!! But because I don't have an appointment with the doctor until late April, I figure it gives me time to get back into pitching shape and more time for my arm to strengthen

Thanks for the words of encouragement everyone

Hello all,

Just thought I would update the status on my injury.

Well I got some bad news yesterday morning when i went to the doctors office; due to the fact that even after doing physical therapy, strength exercises, and stretching my arm was still no where near 100% I will be undergoing surgery. Doctor said he has an idea of what is going on, but will have to operate to really see whats going on and the extent of the damage. He said depending on how much I need repaired I could be back in 3-4 months (best case scenario), or 6-8months (worst case)

thanks for the help and advice you have given..

quote:

or 6-8months (worst case)

Not to put a damper on things, but if the doctor doesn't know what he's going to find, even that could be very optimistic. My son had surgery which turned out to be a torn labrum. It's been over 13 months and although he's been pitching (extended spring training) for the last two months his velocity still isn't back. He's not sure it ever will be but he hasn't been released so that's a good sign.

Good luck and keep fighting.

It is hard for doctors to tell you exactly what is wrong before surgery because the MRI's don't show the shoulder very well. I have had 2 shoulder surgeries and both times the doc told me what he thought, but said he couldn't say for sure or how bad it was until he got in. I think saying that is common practice. Both times he was right on with his diagnosis.

shp,
Based on plenty of experience over the past few years, it sounds to me like a second opinion might be of great value, for a number of reasons.
It is true the shoulder is very difficult for diagnosis and treatment. However, an MRI with contrast should be extremely helpful, especially when coordinated with the clinical findings and the type/location of the pain your are having.
Having an "idea" but needing to operate to really find out may be often used but doctors, but based on what I know now, to me it triggers the recommendation to get a second opinion from a sports orthopedist who treats baseball players.
Also, I would not just accept what this doctor has to say on recovery. As FrankF says, there is much more variability than it seems you are being told.
Be your own patient advocate and get the best opinions you can. There are some recent medical publications on the difficulties in recovering from labrum surgeries which you might want to read. Before you go there, it sure would be better to have a second opinion to determine if there is agreement, or not.
Best of luck to you and I certainly hope for the best.

I say get a second opinion, but I believe the other doctor is not going to be able to tell you anything better. The surgeon that does the Indianapolis Colt's shoulder surgeries did both of mine and he said the exact same thing as you are hearing. He said I could be back within a month, or it could be in the 8 month range...depending on what he finds. From what I understand from the doctor and others, MRIs show symptoms of shoulder injuries, not actual injuries themselves. They look at the MRI and see things that typically show up with tears, etc, but they don't show how bad those tears are or if they are even tears.

ALL three posts above are excellent, MRI's may not show the severity of the tear (or even a tear)but can give the doctor an inside view and compare his knowledge of what a healthy shoulder looks like in general, which might or might not lead him to think there is a tear. My sons friend said he had numerous contrast MRI's that showed nothing, yet exploratory surgery found a tear in the labrum. IMO, until the doctor goes into see what is actually there, how can he make a diagnosis as to your recovery time?

If it were my son, an 09 with no college commitment or not in the professional ranks, I would have a serious discussion about the possibility of continuing the game. It might sound like giving up, but surgery IS surgery and for pitchers, unless they have the best rehab available recovery is a slow process and is very difficult.
JMO.

Mine had surgery two weeks ago. The mri showed a separation, but his doctor said he wouldn't know how severe the tear was until he got in there. I trust this doctor. He is the surgeon for the school and the US olympic ski team. He starts pt today with a therapist that has experience with these injuries and baseball players. I think who is doing the pt is very important. The goal is to be soft tossing by september, and hopefully close to full strength by november. Doc made it clear there are no guarantees. Doc said proper stretching prior to throwing is key to prevent these injuries.

My son had the MRA (MRI with dye) and it was inconclusive as to exactly what was wrong. He was flown to Baltimore where the Division Chief of Sports Medicine and Shoulder Surgery (Dr. Cosgarea) at Johns Hopkins told him that until he went in he had no idea what the extent of the injury was. It turned out to be 3/4 of his labrum was torn which required 3 screws to fix. You would have thought an MRA would show that but it didn't.

As the others have stated, get a 2nd opinion by a surgeon who specializes in shoulders.

Best of luck.

I appreciate the responses, thanks for giving me some insight on other things i could do.

INshocker, I realize that the worst case scenario is that there is a recoup time of over a year..if that is the case, and my arm is not the same then i guess i was just not meant to continue in baseball as a player. If that is the case then I know I have done everything possible to make sure that I am ready to again play at my peak performance.

TPM, I have no commitment for college or any professional scouts giving me looks...but I have tried to play through this injury. At times I would
be able to throw, but if I want any shot at a college really having interest in me I need to be 100% so they really know what they are getting.


I would go for a second opinion, but i went to a shoulder specialist (dr.allen) at the hospital for special surgery and I really trust his judgement. I have put off getting the surgery for a few months now, I just want to get back on the field and play

shp: I think you have to have a mentality going into a big surgery like this that this may be the end. Injuries happen in sports and that is why it takes both luck and skill to make it all the way. I know many great players that had their dreams cut short due to injuries.

I knew going into both of mine that I probably would not have the hose I did at one time....the first time I came back strong, the second time is TBD...good luck and go slow! There is no rush getting an arm back in shape.

Im just preparing for the worst case scenario. Hopefully all goes well and I come back strong, possibly stronger, then I was before...but it all remains to be seen.

When you first came back from the surgery how significant was the drop off in your arm strength and velocity

You literally start from scratch. I struggled throwing 20-30 feet. It does tend to come back fairly quick though if everything was a success. I never had a lot of pain until I got back to around 50 yards and actually had to put something on it...at about 14 months after surgery, I was probably around 90% of my previous level.

This might sound like a stupid question, but is it possible to come back 100%..maybe stronger then I was before?

It definitely is. Just do your rehab, go slow, and do everything in your power. I believe it's about a 90+% chance of coming back 100%

how are the first few days, weeks post op

My son is 4 months post. His first few weeks were difficult, not for any other reason than he was instructed NOT to move his shoulder any more than absolutely possible. It was a pain to have to bath and take care of school work when he wasn’t allowed to move his shoulder and his arm was locked into place with a special shoulder sling. Tell mom to buy some of that Press and Seal plastic wrap. It works great for placing on your shoulder so you can take a shower and keep the shoulder dry.

My son has been going to PT for a little over a month; he was initially doing some special stretches for a month prior to that. He had a Dr visit Wed and we asked the doctor why he could do all of the PT and stretches and he felt no pain or discomfort at all. He said, 30 more days and he could start to soft toss. I understand that throwing is when the “discomfort” starts.

As for recuiting: my son missed his senior year, so we had to find a school that was willing to take a chance on a barly know pitcher.

My son was diagnosed with a SLAP tear about a month ago. Doctor said based on MRI(with dye) there appeared to be a small tear. After a two week rest, he was able to continue pitching the remainder of his sr. year pain free(his team won the NCHSAA 3A state championship). He will have surgery on June 20 to determine the exact nature of the problem. He has a friend who was also diagnosed with a torn labrum who had to stop playing due to extreme pain. He had surgery about a month ago, and was found to have a badly frayed bicep tendon, but no torn labrum. I have done lots of digging about this, including talking to 3 doctors, 5 head college baseball coaches, and 8 college players who suffered this injury. The conclusion I have drawn is that the surgery is the easy part. The rehab, which can be downright he**, is the tough part, and the key to trying to get back to 100%. Every college player that I talked to who did not come back close to 100% all said thay did not perform the rehab properly. I think the toughest thing to deal with is the fact that even if you do a great job rehabbing, there is no gaurantee you will return to form. Mine has been lucky so far. we'll see how it goes from here. Best of luck SHP, and work hard.

quote:

Every college player that I talked to who did not come back close to 100% all said thay did not perform the rehab properly.

That is a sad message to hear and, in my view, not necessarily a "fair" way for less than optimal results to be allocated.
Part of the rehab and it's success needs to involve a very clear understanding of the findings in surgery and the extent of a repair. If there is not 100% accurate communication from the surgeon and 100% understanding by the trainer/PT, the process can be impaired.
If the player has labrum and rotator cuff damage/repair, prescribing and following the rehab for labrum only can be started to soon and be far too aggressive and lead to set backs along the way.
If the doctor and PT are not very conscientious in listening to the player and documenting the clinical course, that can also be an issue.
If the player is too stoic and tends to minimize post surgery related rehab symptoms(very likely with highly competitive athletes) that also isn't going to help the process.
We should be clear that some players do every aspect of the post surgery rehab exactly correctly and either do not recover, or have more complications.
I am aware of a player who followed the rehab protocol perfectly and diligently.
When he not only did not improve but, finally, was able to convince the doctor and PT he felt worse, a repeat MRI showed the process during the rehab either caused another Labral tear, or it had not be repaired in the surgery.