injured shoulder...destroyed my chance?

SP09...I certainly am not one to give you advice on this one, and I'm sure someone qualified will be along momentarily that can. But I did want to ask you a couple of questions. What year are you in, and what do you think happened to cause the damage to your shoulder?

I am a junior (class of 2009). Have SLAP tear (misspelled in prior post)

If anything I would say that overuse last year caused this. The doctor made it a point to say that this injury was a result of how many times I must have thrown the ball and that mechanics were not to blame. Just to give an idea of how much I threw, there was a stretch of 3 games in 4 days where I threw in all 3 games..2 were 5+ inning appearances. Then Fall came around and I pitched in every game I came to. I'm pretty sure fall ball is what pushed me over the edge.

shp

From your posts you sound like a rather intelligent young man---this being the case why did you do this to yourself---you did not play HS ball last spring correct? Could this inactivity been a contributing factor in the arm situation?

quote:

I know I am missing a critical part in the college baseball process, but will colleges shy away because of my shoulder problems..possibly surgery?

Yes. But if you can rehabilitate yourself to play senior year there will still be some late opportunities.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
shp

From your posts you sound like a rather intelligent young man---this being the case why did you do this to yourself---you did not play HS ball last spring correct? Could this inactivity been a contributing factor in the arm situation?

Why are posts like this tolerated? This is beyond any limits of how a high school player seeking advice should be treated. This is wrong!
SHP,
The causes of SLAP lesions are not completely known.
One clear cut cause is a direct fall onto the shoulder where there is a subluxation, separation and/or disclocation of the shoulder. The thought is the lesion/tear occurs then and gets aggravated by overhead, over the shoulder activities like throwing a baseball.
No one knows why they become symptomatic when they do but please be assured you do NOT need to answer TRhit on this. He is ill informed and isn't in any position to judge.
He is an adult who should know better and had no right to suggest you did this to yourself or what any contributing cause might be. It is likely even your doctor won't know.
With that said, you should optimize every chance of a good result from surgery, if that should be the best option.
Get involved in PT, on a presciption from your doctor. Try and use a therapist who does shoulders with baseball players.
Heading into the surgery, whether you need it or not, you want the best range of motion you can have combined with the best level of strength.
If you have the surgery at this point, and have a good rehab/PT/throwing rehab, you should be ready in about 6 months. That will give you your senior year to play/showcase and communicate with coaches.
To find out more, you can Google "SLAP" lesions or tears and see the options for care and the results.
Best advice is to take care of that shoulder and get well and ready to play.
When you can play, the baseball and college can then become your focus.
Please let me know if I can answer any questions along the way and please do not let TR intimidate or embarrass you as he did here. He is in the wrong and owes you an apology.

Infield your post is good but I think TRs question is legite if not a little blunt. This young pitcher has to control his use. If he feels he is over used then he should tell his coach that he isn;t ready. I know they all want the ball but isn't it really a shame these kids are not aware and taught to say no.
I once offered to get my son's doctor to talk to one of his elite teams. I was amazed that they didn't take up the offer. TR seems to be the kind of coach who cares about his players and if a player said he was done would respect that. I thought his question was a good one.
Even with an educated player injuries still occure and it is the nature of over shoulder activity. Most occupations where you are working over head have a susceptability to this type of injury.

Infielddad- I have been looking on Google since I learned Thursday, the day before tryouts, for any information possible. You're right that the doctors don't really know why it happens, all I had been told was the repetitive motion and the violent nature of throwing caused this. I am not sure which route will be taken as I have to go to a shoulder specialist before knowing the full extent of the damage. I know you said not to dignify TR with a response, but I could not help myself.

TRhit- It's bad enough that I worked all off season in hopes of being at peak performance, and being told I was posed for a breakout year only to learn that I CAN'T PLAY FOR AT LEAST 5 MONTHS! Yes, I was cut from SHP last spring (then the #1 team in the country), you know that from prior posts. I transferred to another school where I became the ace of the JV team and proceeded to lead my team in most, if not all, pitching statistical categories. In the summer I carried my team through the Junior Legion County Tournament and was recognized with the tournament's MVP award. So last year I was FAR from inactive.

I do not appreciate your condescending attitude towards my intelligence much more then towards my injury. Why is it when I post you seem to feel the need to try and belittle the intelligence, playing ability, and comprehension of the situations of a high school player looking for help and insight on the game, and more the process of getting to the next level of the game?

BHD,
A young man learns he has a SLAP tear, which doctors have a hard time diagnosing and even a harder time treating, and it is okay to ask him "Why did you do this to yourself?"
Even now, many doctors will tell you it isn't due to throwing, it is due to trauma of the type we see in football from falling directly onto the shoulder.
I assume you and TR can tell me what this young man could have done to prevent a SLAP lesion, since you know the cause? Please tell Shp what he could/should have done differently and please also tell us the cause.
I don't think I can say anything other than say shp deserves far better from this site.
If this is the best we can do for high school players in need of assistance, we should all wonder whether there is truly a need for this site any longer.

You are right about the injury. There was a poster a coupl months ago whos son injured himself by falling on his shoulder in FB.
TR is asking how can you allow yourdelf to be over used.
He asked it bluntly but that is TR. The question itself is a good one.

If the question is a good one, then please tell us the cause of this young man's labral tear/SLAP lesion.
And...before you do this, let me also tell you the standard practice of doctors and baseball specific trainers in MLB is to tell players they can play with a SLAP lesion without the throwing making it worse.
The question is only valid if "YOU" know the cause, so please, step right up.
TR did not ask how you could allow your self to be overused. Tr said you did this to your self and suggested "inactivity" by Shp to be the cause.
His post is clear!
So, please tell us the cause and I will back off.

Why am I under attack and being questioned?

if by "doing this to yourself" means playing baseball, then yes by all means I did it to myself.

I do not understand what is wrong with loving to play the game, and play as much as possible. And I did say no to my coach plenty of times, but when my coach and teammates wanted me to needed me to help get the team out of opportunities that required perfection, why would I say no? I think of myself as a team player, all I want to do is contribute to the team as best I can.

Learning I had a SLAP tear was hard, watching my teammates tryout and knowing I was physically incapable of doing anything was harder, getting these kind of responses from TR and Bobbleheaddoll when I am just looking for some help is brutal.

If this guy googles shoulder injury he will get enough reading to do him for a month.
I like you do not know the cause of his injury but I like you know what the doctors recommend.
Consevative treatment is the usual recommendation. Stretching and anti inflamatory drugs and yes to keep thyrowing. Is that right, well I don't have a definitive answer.
When my son had a shoulder issue last year after summer collegiate ball we thought it might be a labrum problem . I belive it was the result of poor conditioning. We followed the advice of doctor and trainer. Trainer thought it was a strained bicep ligament. The consevative approach worked and he is now 100%. Do we know wht it was for sure ? No and we probably never will.

quote:

I do not understand what is wrong with loving to play the game, and play as much as possible. And I did say no to my coach plenty of times, but when my coach and teammates wanted me to needed me to help get the team out of opportunities that required perfection, why would I say no?

You just answered TR's question.
Don't take this too personal. But you have to say no. Team player does not mean abusing your body. There is a difference between being a whimp and being smart enough to call it a day when you are done.

quote:

Originally posted by shppirate09:
Why am I under attack and being questioned?

if by "doing this to yourself" means playing baseball, then yes by all means I did it to myself.

I do not understand what is wrong with loving to play the game, and play as much as possible. And I did say no to my coach plenty of times, but when my coach and teammates wanted me to needed me to help get the team out of opportunities that required perfection, why would I say no? I think of myself as a team player, all I want to do is contribute to the team as best I can.

Learning I had a SLAP tear was hard, watching my teammates tryout and knowing I was physically incapable of doing anything was harder, getting these kind of responses from TR and Bobbleheaddoll when I am just looking for some help is brutal.

You are not being under attack, don't worry. Funny he tells one to relax and stop being the mother hen of the HSBBW, yet feels he has the right to make others feel badly with some of his posts, especially a young player who comes looking to discuss his situation.

I'd like to see TR give advice instead of putting others down without knowing the situation or what caused it exactly (your doctor is most likely assuming with the info you gave him). I agree with INF, there is no reason for it.

And again BHD compares your injury to his son's one time situation. Typical.

Why do players overuse themselves? There are many reasons. Sometimes players move from team to team and they or their parents are unaware of what overuse can bring and coaches are unaware of previous workload. It happens. It doesn't mean you are not intelligent.

quote:

And again BHD compares your injury to his son's one time situation. Typical.

What is typical is your reaction. My researh was based on his minor pain in his shoulder and I believe I was asked by INF. You can only comment on what your expeiences are so if my experiences are limited well too bad.

The advice was given by 2 competent sources plus my internet research.

You have been called worse than board hen.

You wish you had TRs knowledge.

BHD,
You support TR asking this young man "why" he "did it to himself" and was it inactivity.
However, you then post you don't know the cause, you need to not overdue it, and you need to take care of yourself.
This is the ultimate in the "Monday" morning quarterback with a young man who is mentally having to come to grips with some significant medical news, while also trying to get information on what it means for college baseball.
You and TR come on with "you should have done something" different.
Again, what specifically should he have done differently?
Otherwise, you and TR both owe this young man an apology and let's help him moving forward, not doing your great look in the rear view mirror.
Oh, and by the way, doctor's don't have a standard approach.
One of our son's teammates was in Fall Instrux. Felt a twinge and pain in his first inning on a Monday. On Tuesday, he had an MRI.
On Thursday, he had surgery, just before our son, who was told he could play a full season.
The only thing consistent about Labrum injuries and treatment is it appears inconsistent.
Neither your nor TR offered this young man coming here a single piece of useful advice for his questions about the future.
Neither you nor TR did anything but be judgmental about the past. All that is your right.
Supporting someone saying "he did this to himself" is a sad commentary for a high school player relying on adults for some guidance.

INF there are 2 issues. One is the apparent over use and the other is the labrum. I don't know how to be much clearer about the labrum. I agree that we don't know what caused it.\ The other isuue is that he allowed himself to be over used and admitted he couldn't say no. TR doesn't no what caused the injury either but I see his question as geared to the players inability to control his situation.
Two separate issues completely. I don't believe I was hard on the young pitcher and I understand what he is going through.
So what you want is a sugar coated answer when it is his Doctors advice that counts in regards to his injury.
My advice is follow your doctors advice.

Thank you for answering neither you nor TR know what caused the SLAP.
Can we agree then he "didn't do this too himself?"
Do you have anything to offer Shp in terms of advice on his question about what he should be doing in the future?

quote:

Originally posted by shppirate09:

I know I am missing a critical part in the college baseball process, but will colleges shy away because of my shoulder problems..possibly surgery? I appreciate your feedback

I wanted to quote this unless anyone missed it.

BHD,
True, I might know less than you or TR, but I do try REAL hard to answer questions and have some compassion.

If I am worse than a mother hen for that I have no issue with that at all.

quote:

Do you have anything to offer Shp in terms of advice on his question about what he should be doing in the future?

Haven't had any experience with that injury. Again my advice is talk to the doctor who should be a speacialist in the injury.
There is as you know a great body of info on thye net which is what I look at if I want info. Conservative treatment is the approch but if an MRI shows serious issues then I can see that MLB wouldn't waste time.

http://www.orthoassociates.com/shoulder1.htm

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=shoulder+injury&src=IE-SearchBox

TPM I don't answer medical questions as a rule. Non of us except a few doctors that come on here have any real knowledge and they would probably generalise.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
TPM I don't answer medical questions as a rule. Non of us except a few doctors that come on here have any real knowledge and they would probably generalise.

BHD,
You missed the point completely. He has a doctor who ,ost likely give him advice on what to do. He came here asking if colleges would shy away from him because of his shoulder problems.

And unless I am wrong I think that also was the point IND was making. You ignored that one Instead onto overuse, controlling overuse, and having your son's doc talk to elite teams on the issue, what doctors should recommend, but that is really not answering the question he asked, is it?

quote:

Originally posted by shppirate09:
Hi all,

A few days ago I got an MRI on my shoulder. Thursday I received news that I have a torn FLAP, basically meaning that I have torn a ligament(s). I am indefinitely out for the season...now I have to go to a shoulder specialist and see how bad the damage is.

I know I am missing a critical part in the college baseball process, but will colleges shy away because of my shoulder problems..possibly surgery? I appreciate your feedback

Simply ignore the naysayers, get to the Shoulder Specialist and work on "Plan B". Don't allow the Negative Nellies like Rizzi to detour you from your goal.

People read what shp said---in fall he pitched in every game he went to---I take that to be every weekend===how much work did he do during the week in preparation---did he do too little or did he do too much.

The young man has asked questions numerous times previous and in my judgment should know how to take care of his arm---I am not, despite your thinking, putting the young man down. I am asking questions.

In my world, which I have come to find to be much different than yours, being blunt, though it may hurt, is the best way to go. Some of you cannot seem to handle that.


DAD04
Not a naysayer---just asking some tough, rough questions--perhaps others can learn from his mistakes if he made them---you as the dad of a pitcher should know full well that arm injuries just do not happen---there are reasons

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

quote:

I do not understand what is wrong with loving to play the game, and play as much as possible. And I did say no to my coach plenty of times, but when my coach and teammates wanted me to needed me to help get the team out of opportunities that required perfection, why would I say no?

You just answered TR's question.
Don't take this too personal. But you have to say no. Team player does not mean abusing your body. There is a difference between being a whimp and being smart enough to call it a day when you are done.

I think this post enough sums up what TR was trying to point out. If I was the player, I would have found nothing wrong with what he said at all.

Whipping a puppy with a belt for peeing on the carpet a month ago will hurt, but never make him learn. We'll agree to disagree. Kid, just get your shoulder fixed. You'll have plenty of time to figure out what happened, but it probably won't happen on the internet.

SHP:
your tear is not even close to the end of the world! When they reattach they will use screws (bioabsorbable or metal), they will probably use a double-row technique to allow a good "purchase" of the labrum back in its proper place.

The GREAT thing is that they will shave bone out that doesn't really need to be there giving you more range of motion, keeping more damage from occuring (because the bone naturally actually protrudes down too far and causes injury in a normal person). They will make you better than you were..... Your shoulder will be very strong after the procedure and after the necessary therapy. You will be very sore for a brief period. They will give you great medication to take care of this.

You will be good as new. You will be able to play the game you love with as much aggressiveness as in the past. The SLAP is just a minor set-back.
Please pursue your goals!!!!

quote:

Kid, just get your shoulder fixed. You'll have plenty of time to figure out what happened, but it probably won't happen on the internet.

SHP ... Just don't pee on the carpet again!

Look, I did not come on here to start a war or question why I got hurt. There is no point in questioning history, in my opinion injuries and other obstacles have helped me become a better player and have given me wisdom beyond my years.

I don't want to talk about how I prepared, because if I wanted to talk about that I would not have made a thread named injured shoulder...destroyed my chances? But just so you can know how I prepared, I did pitcher-specific weight training with a highly qualified trainer. I would use the exercises 6 days a week, and would run 1-3 miles a day before beginning my training routine. I don't care if anyone thinks thats too much, because I am not asking if it is..I've already gotten okayed to "do that to myself".

My question was, If I my having shoulder problems and my season is shortened (possibly eliminated) how will colleges react? I am not trying any D1 schools, I know that I am not a D1 prospect..but would D2, D3 and JUCOs shy away?

shp - you got to get your shoulder fixed.

Having an injured anything that keeps you out of games will hurt you in the eyes of college coaches.

Its that simple - you got to get fixed - and then work real hard to get back playing.

Keep your chin up and work hard - I wish you the best.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
People read what shp said---in fall he pitched in every game he went to---I take that to be every weekend===how much work did he do during the week in preparation---did he do too little or did he do too much.

The young man has asked questions numerous times previous and in my judgment should know how to take care of his arm---I am not, despite your thinking, putting the young man down. I am asking questions.

In my world, which I have come to find to be much different than yours, being blunt, though it may hurt, is the best way to go. Some of you cannot seem to handle that.


DAD04
Not a naysayer---just asking some tough, rough questions--perhaps others can learn from his mistakes if he made them---you as the dad of a pitcher should know full well that arm injuries just do not happen---there are reasons

Since you brought it up with Dad 04, why don't you tell us the cause of labral tears and SLAP lesions, and then tell all of us how to prevent those.
If you can criticize and question this young high school player and accuse him of doing this to himself, then give him and all of us the answers on the cause and prevention of SLAP lesions, so no one, from high school, to college, to professional makes the mistake again. You will also be helping the medical community because there is much of it they don't know.
Its, Dad04, thanks for your comments and support.
Shp, this injury will impact getting recruited at a DI level.
If you work hard, get good medical attention, and do the rehab with dedication, there is every reason to believe you can play in college.

infielddad

First of all I am not a doctor and do not not know the cause---HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ME OFFER MEDICAL ADVICE__I ALWAyS RECOMMEND THEY SEE A DOCTOR===that is why I asked the young man about what he did up to the injury

As for SHP and his College outlook---this sure does impact his college future possibilities especially in view of the fact that he not played an inning of HS Varsity baseball to date---sorry to be blunt but the young man had a very steep hill to climb, like it or not

"this being the case why did you do this to yourself"

TR, this is your quote to shp.
You seem now to be trying to hide the insult and your ignorance concerning the cause of the SLAP behind an assertion you were being "blunt."
If you don't offer medical advice, don't ever tell a young man who just learned he has a SLAP lesion that "he did it to himself."
As for the playing issue, that will be decided by how well shp can play the game and recovers from this injury.
Right now there is a senior in college starting at shortstop for one of the better DIII programs. Played hardly an inning in high school, even as a senior.

quote:

And unless I am wrong I think that also was the point IND was making. You ignored that one Instead onto overuse, controlling overuse, and having your son's doc talk to elite teams on the issue, what doctors should recommend, but that is really not answering the question he asked, is it?

If I am not mistaken it depends on how good he is wether coaches will shy away. I know a few guys wo were signed and still under rehab from TJ. Answering that question is stricctly conjecture on our part. Since he is not looking at D1 there may be a chance they would still look at him but who knows. I don't.
Shp ypur history is very important in determining your future even in BB.
How you prepared is also extremely important.
You say this injury destroyed your chances. No it didn't. If you continue to feel sorry for yourself maybe you did. You didn't ask you stated that the injury destroyed your chances.
My advice is follow your docs advivce and if sergury is inorder get it done and work hard to get back on the mound.

BHD,
Nice post.
Very good thoughts on being prepared mentally and physically going forward..
Thanks.

infielddad

You insults continue to make me think you have a very serious problem

But then you are in the state where the GOV reportedly goes to work every day in a private jet (did he lose his drivers license)and to ease the budget problems will try to release
25,000 inmates early so as to save money-- Just got to like the thinking on the "left out coast"---OUCH


Taking that into consideration I guess you don't have a problem

Texas, Cali, Florida.....when all else fails, simply tell the poster he is in strange part of the world. Well said, indeed.

TR,
A high school player comes on this site asking for input on what a recent diagnosis of a labrum tear/SLAP lesion might mean for his playing college baseball.
You respond: "this being the case why did you do this to yourself"

shp asked for assistance and you blamed him for the SLAP tear, as I posted above.
Don't you think the measure of a responsible poster on this site, a solid citizen, good adult, and quality coach is whether they can understand, and accept responsibility, when they make a mistake?
This isn't between us.
This is your choosing to accuse a high school player of causing his own injury.
The ball is in your court on whether you feel accusing a high school player of causing his SLAP lesion was a responsible way for a "Coach" to respond.
All of your attempting to bluster and to try and change the topic won't because it is very clear and the choice is yours.

Stay Positive Kid! Have your folks do some homework and find out who the very BEST "Shoulder Doc" in or out of your area. Get a second opinion. Remember that you are young and motivated...so you will heal!
My son's an 2009 too...I'll keep you in my prayers

Hang in there--everything will work out and you'll be stronger for it!

Simply put, this is one of the most disturbing threads I have ever read on here. I worry about the future of this site.

TPM, infielddad, Dad04 and a few others. Thanks for welcoming this young man with a little compassion, dignity and sensible advice.

shippirate - I don't know a thing about you but keep the faith, listen to your doctors and chase your dream. Better to try than to have regrets. And no, you didn't 'do this to yourself.' Good luck!

TR - Quit hiding behind the vail of "blunt." I like blunt, I am blunt myself. You're something different and its blinding your good judgement.

shppirates- You have a PM.

Glad to see how everyone wants to educate me---perhaps some of you need educating

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
infielddad

You insults continue to make me think you have a very serious problem ????????????????????

But then you are in the state where the GOV reportedly goes to work every day in a private jet (did he lose his drivers license)and to ease the budget problems will try to release
25,000 inmates early so as to save money-- Just got to like the thinking on the "left out coast"---OUCH


Taking that into consideration I guess you don't have a problem

What the ????? Very logical

Thanks for the support everyone, I really appreciate it.

Tomorrow I am going to The Hospital for Special Surgery in New York and seeing MD Answorth Allen, after that I will know the extent of the damage and if it requires surgery. Hopefully it'll just be PT and rest...

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

You say this injury destroyed your chances. No it didn't. If you continue to feel sorry for yourself maybe you did. You didn't ask you statedthat the injury destroyed your chances.

Incorrect: injured shoulder...destroyed my chance?

Copied directly out of the topic header. I believe the question mark indicates...a question?
I don't see the young man as feeling sorry for himself. I believe he is asking for information and, God forbid, a little encouragement.

Take Care Shp09, and do what you have to to get well.

shp,
good luck tomorrow. I hope it is a good visit and provides some answers you need on the medical issues.
Keeping a very positive frame of mind will be critical.
By doing that, and working hard, you can end up in the best shape of your life by the end of this.
Will have my fingers crossed for you.
Bill Armstrong

I went to the doctor today, he said that my labral tear was small. Said there is no need for surgery and that I should get over to a physical therapist 2-3x per week. In 6 weeks I will be going back for a follow up visit, and then I will be cleared to throw again

Sounds great!

Make sure you do your therapy!!!!

That is great news, so take care of business and you are back in the saddle.

Awesome news! I don't know if anyone was praying for you, but...

shp,
That is great news for you. Do everything you can to find a therapist who knows baseball, throwing and labrum issues and can guide your PT.
Just so you know, you are not alone, and need to focus on what lies ahead.
Here is the link to a story about our son's roommate from the Lansing Lugnuts Milb team in 2005.
Casey is a terrific guy and a great talent.
He didn't even pitch until his senior year in college.
Ended up being a 4th round pick and moved very quickly to Toronto in 2006. He had a very good year last year.
As you can tell, labrum injuries affect players at all levels. Casey was doing a bullpen with no prior history and he takes great care of himself.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080312&conten...s&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

That is good news.

P16 yes there was a question mark but the way he posed it was negative. How does antone know ?
Fortunately he got the answer from the one who can give him good advice.
Casey Jansen just got sidelined for the rest of the year with a torn labrum. Not his 1st.

quote:

Casey Jansen just got sidelined for the rest of the year with a torn labrum. Not his 1st.

What do you mean "Not his 1st?"
Do you mean not his 1st torn labrum?

According to Ernie Whitt he has struggled with arm injury. Did not specify if it was labrum. He was jsut off rehab recently.
If you were really asking to know I could ask. I doubt that was your intent.

Just to be clear:
Casey appeared in 70 games last year, and nearly the same combined number in 2006 when he moved quickly up to the Jays.
In 2005, he was amazing from day one in Lansing until the 144 game schedule was complete.
Don't think we need anymore.
I posted about Casey because he is a late bloomer as a pitcher, a great kid, tremendous competitor, great teammate, and a very hard worker on conditioning and taking care of himself, and still ends up with a labrum injury.

just thought i would update as to what's been happening with my shoulder:

Went to PT twice, after the examination and doing the specified surgical tubing/stretching the therapist doesn't expect me to be out long at all. Shoulder is very sore...I don't think I have ever used my shoulder so little as I have the past month or so. Well, onto the road to recovery.

Thanks everyone for the prayers, helpful advice and trying to help me out with this situation...even you TR

shp,

That is good news. Make sure you do not slack off on the PT - and good luck with your season!

Good news and good luck to you!

iirc, you are in Union county. I grew up and played at Hillside HS (back in the 70's - its a bit different there now..) My son plays in the same conference as SHP, so I've been following your posts.

Use the spring to get your arm back to 100%, and try to hook up with a good summer/fall team to get you the exposure to the colleges.

Again, good luck!!

shppirate09,
I've been reading along as well.
Pleeeeeeeeeease do your therapy,..keep a positive outlook, and I like your style.

quote:

Thanks everyone for the prayers, helpful advice and trying to help me out with this situation...even you TR

Now thats a GREAT kid!!!

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to post an update on my progress; Over the past couple weeks I have been going to physical therapy 2-3x per week. I have finally begun to experience the pain associated with PT...the therapist said that the pain means that progress is being made and the areas around the SLAP tear are being strengthened. I have done the home exercises to the point that I was told to do less.

The best news that I have gotten so far is the PT therapist saying that he thinks that I can begin throwing...RIGHT NOW!! But because I don't have an appointment with the doctor until late April, I figure it gives me time to get back into pitching shape and more time for my arm to strengthen

Thanks for the words of encouragement everyone

Hello all,

Just thought I would update the status on my injury.

Well I got some bad news yesterday morning when i went to the doctors office; due to the fact that even after doing physical therapy, strength exercises, and stretching my arm was still no where near 100% I will be undergoing surgery. Doctor said he has an idea of what is going on, but will have to operate to really see whats going on and the extent of the damage. He said depending on how much I need repaired I could be back in 3-4 months (best case scenario), or 6-8months (worst case)

thanks for the help and advice you have given..

quote:

or 6-8months (worst case)

Not to put a damper on things, but if the doctor doesn't know what he's going to find, even that could be very optimistic. My son had surgery which turned out to be a torn labrum. It's been over 13 months and although he's been pitching (extended spring training) for the last two months his velocity still isn't back. He's not sure it ever will be but he hasn't been released so that's a good sign.

Good luck and keep fighting.

It is hard for doctors to tell you exactly what is wrong before surgery because the MRI's don't show the shoulder very well. I have had 2 shoulder surgeries and both times the doc told me what he thought, but said he couldn't say for sure or how bad it was until he got in. I think saying that is common practice. Both times he was right on with his diagnosis.

shp,
Based on plenty of experience over the past few years, it sounds to me like a second opinion might be of great value, for a number of reasons.
It is true the shoulder is very difficult for diagnosis and treatment. However, an MRI with contrast should be extremely helpful, especially when coordinated with the clinical findings and the type/location of the pain your are having.
Having an "idea" but needing to operate to really find out may be often used but doctors, but based on what I know now, to me it triggers the recommendation to get a second opinion from a sports orthopedist who treats baseball players.
Also, I would not just accept what this doctor has to say on recovery. As FrankF says, there is much more variability than it seems you are being told.
Be your own patient advocate and get the best opinions you can. There are some recent medical publications on the difficulties in recovering from labrum surgeries which you might want to read. Before you go there, it sure would be better to have a second opinion to determine if there is agreement, or not.
Best of luck to you and I certainly hope for the best.

I say get a second opinion, but I believe the other doctor is not going to be able to tell you anything better. The surgeon that does the Indianapolis Colt's shoulder surgeries did both of mine and he said the exact same thing as you are hearing. He said I could be back within a month, or it could be in the 8 month range...depending on what he finds. From what I understand from the doctor and others, MRIs show symptoms of shoulder injuries, not actual injuries themselves. They look at the MRI and see things that typically show up with tears, etc, but they don't show how bad those tears are or if they are even tears.

ALL three posts above are excellent, MRI's may not show the severity of the tear (or even a tear)but can give the doctor an inside view and compare his knowledge of what a healthy shoulder looks like in general, which might or might not lead him to think there is a tear. My sons friend said he had numerous contrast MRI's that showed nothing, yet exploratory surgery found a tear in the labrum. IMO, until the doctor goes into see what is actually there, how can he make a diagnosis as to your recovery time?

If it were my son, an 09 with no college commitment or not in the professional ranks, I would have a serious discussion about the possibility of continuing the game. It might sound like giving up, but surgery IS surgery and for pitchers, unless they have the best rehab available recovery is a slow process and is very difficult.
JMO.

Mine had surgery two weeks ago. The mri showed a separation, but his doctor said he wouldn't know how severe the tear was until he got in there. I trust this doctor. He is the surgeon for the school and the US olympic ski team. He starts pt today with a therapist that has experience with these injuries and baseball players. I think who is doing the pt is very important. The goal is to be soft tossing by september, and hopefully close to full strength by november. Doc made it clear there are no guarantees. Doc said proper stretching prior to throwing is key to prevent these injuries.

My son had the MRA (MRI with dye) and it was inconclusive as to exactly what was wrong. He was flown to Baltimore where the Division Chief of Sports Medicine and Shoulder Surgery (Dr. Cosgarea) at Johns Hopkins told him that until he went in he had no idea what the extent of the injury was. It turned out to be 3/4 of his labrum was torn which required 3 screws to fix. You would have thought an MRA would show that but it didn't.

As the others have stated, get a 2nd opinion by a surgeon who specializes in shoulders.

Best of luck.

I appreciate the responses, thanks for giving me some insight on other things i could do.

INshocker, I realize that the worst case scenario is that there is a recoup time of over a year..if that is the case, and my arm is not the same then i guess i was just not meant to continue in baseball as a player. If that is the case then I know I have done everything possible to make sure that I am ready to again play at my peak performance.

TPM, I have no commitment for college or any professional scouts giving me looks...but I have tried to play through this injury. At times I would
be able to throw, but if I want any shot at a college really having interest in me I need to be 100% so they really know what they are getting.


I would go for a second opinion, but i went to a shoulder specialist (dr.allen) at the hospital for special surgery and I really trust his judgement. I have put off getting the surgery for a few months now, I just want to get back on the field and play

shp: I think you have to have a mentality going into a big surgery like this that this may be the end. Injuries happen in sports and that is why it takes both luck and skill to make it all the way. I know many great players that had their dreams cut short due to injuries.

I knew going into both of mine that I probably would not have the hose I did at one time....the first time I came back strong, the second time is TBD...good luck and go slow! There is no rush getting an arm back in shape.

Im just preparing for the worst case scenario. Hopefully all goes well and I come back strong, possibly stronger, then I was before...but it all remains to be seen.

When you first came back from the surgery how significant was the drop off in your arm strength and velocity

You literally start from scratch. I struggled throwing 20-30 feet. It does tend to come back fairly quick though if everything was a success. I never had a lot of pain until I got back to around 50 yards and actually had to put something on it...at about 14 months after surgery, I was probably around 90% of my previous level.

This might sound like a stupid question, but is it possible to come back 100%..maybe stronger then I was before?

It definitely is. Just do your rehab, go slow, and do everything in your power. I believe it's about a 90+% chance of coming back 100%

how are the first few days, weeks post op

My son is 4 months post. His first few weeks were difficult, not for any other reason than he was instructed NOT to move his shoulder any more than absolutely possible. It was a pain to have to bath and take care of school work when he wasn’t allowed to move his shoulder and his arm was locked into place with a special shoulder sling. Tell mom to buy some of that Press and Seal plastic wrap. It works great for placing on your shoulder so you can take a shower and keep the shoulder dry.

My son has been going to PT for a little over a month; he was initially doing some special stretches for a month prior to that. He had a Dr visit Wed and we asked the doctor why he could do all of the PT and stretches and he felt no pain or discomfort at all. He said, 30 more days and he could start to soft toss. I understand that throwing is when the “discomfort” starts.

As for recuiting: my son missed his senior year, so we had to find a school that was willing to take a chance on a barly know pitcher.

My son was diagnosed with a SLAP tear about a month ago. Doctor said based on MRI(with dye) there appeared to be a small tear. After a two week rest, he was able to continue pitching the remainder of his sr. year pain free(his team won the NCHSAA 3A state championship). He will have surgery on June 20 to determine the exact nature of the problem. He has a friend who was also diagnosed with a torn labrum who had to stop playing due to extreme pain. He had surgery about a month ago, and was found to have a badly frayed bicep tendon, but no torn labrum. I have done lots of digging about this, including talking to 3 doctors, 5 head college baseball coaches, and 8 college players who suffered this injury. The conclusion I have drawn is that the surgery is the easy part. The rehab, which can be downright he**, is the tough part, and the key to trying to get back to 100%. Every college player that I talked to who did not come back close to 100% all said thay did not perform the rehab properly. I think the toughest thing to deal with is the fact that even if you do a great job rehabbing, there is no gaurantee you will return to form. Mine has been lucky so far. we'll see how it goes from here. Best of luck SHP, and work hard.

quote:

Every college player that I talked to who did not come back close to 100% all said thay did not perform the rehab properly.

That is a sad message to hear and, in my view, not necessarily a "fair" way for less than optimal results to be allocated.
Part of the rehab and it's success needs to involve a very clear understanding of the findings in surgery and the extent of a repair. If there is not 100% accurate communication from the surgeon and 100% understanding by the trainer/PT, the process can be impaired.
If the player has labrum and rotator cuff damage/repair, prescribing and following the rehab for labrum only can be started to soon and be far too aggressive and lead to set backs along the way.
If the doctor and PT are not very conscientious in listening to the player and documenting the clinical course, that can also be an issue.
If the player is too stoic and tends to minimize post surgery related rehab symptoms(very likely with highly competitive athletes) that also isn't going to help the process.
We should be clear that some players do every aspect of the post surgery rehab exactly correctly and either do not recover, or have more complications.
I am aware of a player who followed the rehab protocol perfectly and diligently.
When he not only did not improve but, finally, was able to convince the doctor and PT he felt worse, a repeat MRI showed the process during the rehab either caused another Labral tear, or it had not be repaired in the surgery.

Hey everybody,

Figured I would just update my status. I went under the knife last wednesday at HSS in Manhattan..got to sit in the waiting room with Stephon Marbury. The doctors said the surgery took about an hour and a half. I had an impingement of my rotator cuff and a slight labral tear..not as bad as it might sound.

I started physical therapy on wednesday, a week after having the surgery performed. So far so good

Good luck buddy. Best wishes for a speedy recovery and lots of good pt to help it along.

"My question was, If I my having shoulder problems and my season is shortened (possibly eliminated) how will colleges react? I am not trying any D1 schools, I know that I am not a D1 prospect..but would D2, D3 and JUCOs shy away?"

yo shp,
im also a 09 and i unfortunatley had an injury about the same time as you. in late march during the season i was on a roll and got a partical tear of my UCL, one doctor told me i need tommy john and i said no thanks cuz that meant i would be out for a lonngg time, also my dad is a doctor and thought if it was a partial rest and rehab should do the work, and so i went to another doc to check out my mri and agreed with my father and said do the rehab, and play it by ear. basically play catch try different percentage of effort and when its ready ill know its ready.
ive emailed all the college coaches who have shown consistent interest through letters and/or email and all of them wished me the best of luck told me to keep my head up and keep them updated and let them know when im healthy. so to answer the question in the quote if a coach likes you tehy probably have heard of the injury and would just like to be notified of progress and how your doing and check you out when your healthy to complete their deciscion making process on you.
but the best advice i can give you is to not rush coming back. its not worth it. i rested and rested and did what you did watching my team play, and i wanted to say "F" it let me pitch, or let me play third, and so i kept on doing rehab and progressing in throwing. then one weekend game for my club team i warm up and am throwing hard, possibly harder tahn before due to the strengthening from rehab and after like 10 fastballs the pain reoccurs and i shut it down. and dont completelty start over the process but it was definantly a bump in the road and it let me know i was not ready. so im still resting and not capable of playing in anything so i am not rushing. but i should be healthy within a month or two (from me guaging my progress and pain), and everything seems like its gonna work out, it just depends on how hard i work to get better.

SO PRETTY MUCH ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD IF YOUR GOOD, AND RECOVER PROPERLY SOMEONE WILL WANT YA. JUST DONT GET YOUR HEAD DOWN OR YOUR HOPES TOO HIGH, JUST WORK AS HARD AS YOUR CAN AND THIS IS HYPRICITICAL COMING FROM ME, BUT IF YOU WORKED HARD AND IT DOESNT WORK THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO, BUT I THINK FROM WHAT YOUVE SAID YOU WORK HARD AND THINK POSITIVE SOMETHING GOOD WILL TURN OUT. GOOD LUCK KID.

First hand experience:

O'Brady Jr. had shoulder issues for a couple of years. Through therapy, we'd hoped that he could work his way through the pain. February of his senior season it became obvious he couldn’t. MRI didn’t show much, only going in would tell us for certain what the issue was.

Needless to say it was a slap tear and he missed his senior season. While Jr. is a good pitcher, once we let the coaches know the contacts nearly all stopped. A few D1s said they couldn’t take the risk. We kept emailing JUCOs and doing a sales job on what he had accomplished to that point in his baseball life. We went the JUCO route because it allowed him to have a chance to prove he could still do it, if he can, and then move up. He did get several “walk on/try out” offers and one tiny scholarship offer, one that a lot of kids get, and a chance to try out for the team.

Now we are waiting for the release from the doctor and to start throwing again.

If you want to play, there is always a place, you may have to start at the bottom and prove yourself all over again, but you can play. That of course is assuming you recover enough to perform at the college level. That we are still waiting to see.

CaBB thanks for the encouragement.

SDbaseball2209,
I just got my labrum and rotator cuff fixed up.I also went the rehab route and it did NOTHING, still had pain when i threw and couldnt go further then 60feet...i feel your pain. worst thing about it, i was waiting until this year to do showcases, special tourneys, etc.

Obrady,
doctors prognosis is very promising, says based off his evaluation today that it should be no more then 4-6 months before im put on a throwing program. overall, I would think, a great thing to hear; especially since I thought that I would not be playing at all next year. I know as a 5'7 RHP that maxes 86 I was not going to be getting any offers anywhere...if I cant find my way onto a D2 or D3 team then JUCO route it is