RJM:
Glad to hear that the damage was limited to a major bruise.
Hope your son is back on the field soon!!!
08
CP--perhaps you dont understand the meaning of the quotes Kind of like the kid throwing at players head was "backing him off of the plate", or you "appear to be able to read between the lines" We all agree that the looking back was the players own fault, and he should have known better, whatever the reason. The lesson could have been learned with one in the ribs instead of one towards the head, however. Once a pitcher throws at someones head, its on him if a real po'ed batter is coming at him or his catcher looking for blood.
I'm late to this...
My experience with 'big kids ball' is limited to what I saw in my freshman son's (I'll have to get used to typing sophomore now) varsity season. I never saw this BS in club ball.
In HS, there is some sort of machismo going on. Our catcher hit a walk off HR to win a game early in the week. Two days later, same team, first AB, fastball in the small of the back. Next inning, their pitcher is hitting, fastball in the small of the back.
Sounds like tit for tat, the problem is, these kids aren't programmed to throw at each other. They're programmed to throw strikes. Foot placement, follow through, all mechanics are designed to throw the ball towards the plate. When you ask a kid to do something different, he doesn't do it as well. For example, watch high school kids intentionally walk a hitter when they have to throw pitches, you hold your breath that the ball doesn't end up at the back stop. At least half of the pitch-outs I see are ugly. Ask for a FB up and away, just above the hands, but not too high on 0-2, most of these pitches go way high and away, totally wasting the pitch.
Ask him to hit a kid in the small of the back and the ball gets away a little and you could have a serious head injury.
Would it happen every time? No way, especially with elite players. To be a tradgedy, it only has to happen once in a career.
Amature players have no business pulling this ****. If some coach who signs your paycheck asks you to do it, then its different.
When I asked our HS coach if he made the call on the situation described, he laughed and said he'd be fired if he every asked a pitcher to throw at a hitter. He and the pitching coach preech that they not throw at each other.
As a club coach, the personal liability if something bad happens is mind boggling. I don't want the other team throwing at on of my 12 or 13 players, I can't afford to have kids with broken wrists. I don't want to get sued if one of mine does it.
Its just not worth it. Isn't blowing three fastballs by the other guy more fun anyway????
My experience with 'big kids ball' is limited to what I saw in my freshman son's (I'll have to get used to typing sophomore now) varsity season. I never saw this BS in club ball.
In HS, there is some sort of machismo going on. Our catcher hit a walk off HR to win a game early in the week. Two days later, same team, first AB, fastball in the small of the back. Next inning, their pitcher is hitting, fastball in the small of the back.
Sounds like tit for tat, the problem is, these kids aren't programmed to throw at each other. They're programmed to throw strikes. Foot placement, follow through, all mechanics are designed to throw the ball towards the plate. When you ask a kid to do something different, he doesn't do it as well. For example, watch high school kids intentionally walk a hitter when they have to throw pitches, you hold your breath that the ball doesn't end up at the back stop. At least half of the pitch-outs I see are ugly. Ask for a FB up and away, just above the hands, but not too high on 0-2, most of these pitches go way high and away, totally wasting the pitch.
Ask him to hit a kid in the small of the back and the ball gets away a little and you could have a serious head injury.
Would it happen every time? No way, especially with elite players. To be a tradgedy, it only has to happen once in a career.
Amature players have no business pulling this ****. If some coach who signs your paycheck asks you to do it, then its different.
When I asked our HS coach if he made the call on the situation described, he laughed and said he'd be fired if he every asked a pitcher to throw at a hitter. He and the pitching coach preech that they not throw at each other.
As a club coach, the personal liability if something bad happens is mind boggling. I don't want the other team throwing at on of my 12 or 13 players, I can't afford to have kids with broken wrists. I don't want to get sued if one of mine does it.
Its just not worth it. Isn't blowing three fastballs by the other guy more fun anyway????
Hey JMoff, of coarse the coach isn't going to admit to that. That doesn't mean he doesn't know it'll happen though. On my nephews team, the coach doesn't have to know, it's between player vs. player. If the team decides that it needs to be done, then it gets done. Theirs nothing anybody can do about it either. If a kid gets hit, you just tell the coach it got away from me. That's just how it is, and no matter how hard anybody tries, it wont never stop.
An it's not very hard to hit a kid in the leg or small of the back. Give these kids a little more credit in regards to their accuracy.
An it's not very hard to hit a kid in the leg or small of the back. Give these kids a little more credit in regards to their accuracy.
I realize the coaches 'know' its going to happen. I also know that 9 times out of 10, they'll execute well enough.
My concern is what happens on that 1 out of 10.
A kid with a 85+ mph fastball has a very dangerous weapon in his hand. Most of these HS school kids don't understand the damage it can do. Add a little adrenaline, some poorly regulated testosterone and the sensation of invulnerability and you've got a receipe for disaster.
If I had a nickle for every stupid thing I did between the ages of 13 and 22, I'd have lost a lot more in the stock market last year! Wait, that didn't help my point.
The point is, these kids need coaches who encourage the right things. Throwing at each other in the context originally presented is just not right (club ball coach commanding it). I can almost accept throwing at a kid in the context I presented in my previous example (the other team obviously did the same thing to you and the pitcher is hitting), but would rather they wait a few years before they start that stuff. It also doesn't happen as much as we might think in the pros.
My son's pitching coach, who pitched in the pros for 15 years (5 in MLB), told my son he'd intentionally hit a player on the other team exactly once in his enitre career (including as an amature).
ESPN makes it looks like it happens all the time...
My concern is what happens on that 1 out of 10.
A kid with a 85+ mph fastball has a very dangerous weapon in his hand. Most of these HS school kids don't understand the damage it can do. Add a little adrenaline, some poorly regulated testosterone and the sensation of invulnerability and you've got a receipe for disaster.
If I had a nickle for every stupid thing I did between the ages of 13 and 22, I'd have lost a lot more in the stock market last year! Wait, that didn't help my point.
The point is, these kids need coaches who encourage the right things. Throwing at each other in the context originally presented is just not right (club ball coach commanding it). I can almost accept throwing at a kid in the context I presented in my previous example (the other team obviously did the same thing to you and the pitcher is hitting), but would rather they wait a few years before they start that stuff. It also doesn't happen as much as we might think in the pros.
My son's pitching coach, who pitched in the pros for 15 years (5 in MLB), told my son he'd intentionally hit a player on the other team exactly once in his enitre career (including as an amature).
ESPN makes it looks like it happens all the time...
Well the fact is 17 18 year old young men that have been playing the game their entire life who are extremely competitive are going to do things. As a coach its your job to make sure they understand the consequences of those actions. "What could go wrong" ''Why they shouldnt stoop to that level" etc etc. If you sit back and are not proactive in your approach to teaching , mentoring and explaining the reasons why they shouldnt do certain things then they will happen. You as a coach can control the culture of your team and the environment of the program.
I have had pitchers and catchers that wanted to drill kids. They have wanted to do it so bad they had a red race and tears of anger in their eyes. If you dont step in and teach at those moments guess what "Someone's going to get drilled." Hell I have wanted to drill someone several times. But I always think about what could go wrong and the fact that is someone's child standing in that batters box. It simply is not worth the risk. Now teach that to your players and let them know if it happens they will pay a severe penalty and that is nothing to what they will have to live with if it goes terribly wrong.
I have had pitchers and catchers that wanted to drill kids. They have wanted to do it so bad they had a red race and tears of anger in their eyes. If you dont step in and teach at those moments guess what "Someone's going to get drilled." Hell I have wanted to drill someone several times. But I always think about what could go wrong and the fact that is someone's child standing in that batters box. It simply is not worth the risk. Now teach that to your players and let them know if it happens they will pay a severe penalty and that is nothing to what they will have to live with if it goes terribly wrong.
I am glad son is ok.
I like Coach May's response. I would definetly let the coach handle it, more so, I would want to know why the umpire didn't stop it, that puzzles me.
As your sons grow older you will begin to see the game change a bit more than you would like. I say get used to it. Coaches DO know what's going on, but tell players to handle it themselves and turn their heads to the messages, they will NEVER admit it. This shouldn't apply to very young players, I agree they don't have the control needed NOT to seriously injure someone.
I like Coach May's response. I would definetly let the coach handle it, more so, I would want to know why the umpire didn't stop it, that puzzles me.
As your sons grow older you will begin to see the game change a bit more than you would like. I say get used to it. Coaches DO know what's going on, but tell players to handle it themselves and turn their heads to the messages, they will NEVER admit it. This shouldn't apply to very young players, I agree they don't have the control needed NOT to seriously injure someone.
I agree, an excellent post by Coach May on the coach's role in these situations!
Julie
Julie
I just saw this post. Glad you kid is OK, RJM. The coach is an idiot, if indeed he said what he said, visited the mound, and the next two pitches are at your kid's ear and knee.
But what is your kid doing looking back? If it is part of his setup routine, which means he has been doing it for some time, why has the coach allowed it? You played college ball, so you must know that the batter has no business looking behind him.
But what is your kid doing looking back? If it is part of his setup routine, which means he has been doing it for some time, why has the coach allowed it? You played college ball, so you must know that the batter has no business looking behind him.
I see your point JMoff, I'm just saying it is what it is and no umpire, coach, or legal issue will ever stop it. Now it doesn't happen that much, but it does happen atleast more then one thinks. Last year alone for my nephews team, they had to do it twice. One was from something that happened the previous year, and the kid knew it was coming because the kids on my nephews team didn't let him forget about it all summer long. The kid got hit and he smiled while going to first base. Now it isn't like that all the time I know.
As for the coach ordering it and telling his pitcher to do it, is just plain wrong and I've already said what I'd do.
As for the coach ordering it and telling his pitcher to do it, is just plain wrong and I've already said what I'd do.
My son, his sophomore year of high school, was hit with a fastball in the small of his back. He turned like he was taught. It was after a close play at home the previous inning which the pitcher and runner got tangled up. The inning had ended and and when he was running to the outfield collapsed. We were instructed to take him to the hospital because he was having trouble breathing. I hate to have pitchers think it is okay to hit a player. My son was in intensive care for over a week with a ruptured splean. He had two iv's in each arm so that if they had to do emergency surgery he would be ready. He was unable to get out of bed for three or four days. Thank goodness it healed on its own. We had several attorneys contact us with a possible law suit. Six weeks later he returned to the field to finish out the season. I think a law suit would have done nothing but hurt legion ball. The coach on the opposing team called about five days into the hospital stay. My 16 year old told him if he didn't do it on purpose don't worry about it. If you did, I guess you have to live with it. Couldn't have been more proud of him. (Who is the adult here) He was fired from coaching the next year.
LHPitcher that was an awesome answer by your son to the other coach. You got yourself a winner there - you should be proud of him.
This is what's wrong here - no they didn't have to do it twice. They didn't have to do it once. They never HAD to do it at all.
MLB pitchers are grown men who can make grown up decisions for themselves or follow orders from other grown up men. MLB batters are grown men who make grown up decisions about whether they step into the box or not. HS and bellow players are minors who don't always understand the consequences of doing what's on TV. For every kid like LHPitcher's son there are about 4 who aren't mature enough to make that decision.
Secondly MLB hitters are grown men who have muscle built up to protect their internal organs. Most HS kids are still pretty skinny and don't have that extra muscle to protect them.
In all my years of coaching HS ball I honestly cannot remember ever thinking my pitchers threw at a batter intentionally. In fact I can't remember telling my guys not to. We just didn't do it. Never considered it.
quote:Last year alone for my nephews team, they had to do it twice.
This is what's wrong here - no they didn't have to do it twice. They didn't have to do it once. They never HAD to do it at all.
MLB pitchers are grown men who can make grown up decisions for themselves or follow orders from other grown up men. MLB batters are grown men who make grown up decisions about whether they step into the box or not. HS and bellow players are minors who don't always understand the consequences of doing what's on TV. For every kid like LHPitcher's son there are about 4 who aren't mature enough to make that decision.
Secondly MLB hitters are grown men who have muscle built up to protect their internal organs. Most HS kids are still pretty skinny and don't have that extra muscle to protect them.
In all my years of coaching HS ball I honestly cannot remember ever thinking my pitchers threw at a batter intentionally. In fact I can't remember telling my guys not to. We just didn't do it. Never considered it.
quote:In all my years of coaching HS ball I honestly cannot remember ever thinking my pitchers threw at a batter intentionally. In fact I can't remember telling my guys not to. We just didn't do it. Never considered it.
Never heard a coach tell a pitcher to hit a batter.
I Also never seen a pitcher intentionally hit a batter.
Seen lots of people accuse coaches and pitchers of doing it but it just doesn't happen. just part of the myth people like to spin.
Hey coach2709, I guess it's hard for you to understand that the coach doesn't have a say in it. The coach most of the time never knows when a pitcher is gonna throw at a player, if the team is smart they wouldn't let the coach know. He can "assume" that it happened, but that's in between the players. An if the kids feel like it needs to be done, then their gonna do it. Nobody can't stop them. You can teach the right way to do things all you want but their teenagers and they feel if you disrespect them, that's what happens. You might not agree with it, but again, their teenagers.
An people saying that they don't know the consequences of their actions is hogwash. A lot of these kids have very good GPA's and most of them realize that if you throw a hard object at some one, theirs potential that some one could get hurt. I'm pretty sure they can figure that out, we're not talking about 12 and 13 year-olds.
As far as they didn't have to hit a batter, yeah, your right, I don't think they had to either, but once again, I don't think teenagers have to drink when they go to their high school field parties on a Friday night, BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY. An if you think that teenagers don't, you're only lying to yourself. The bottom line is that if a teenager and his team think that they have to hit someone for showboating or throwing at one of their own and retaliating, then they're going to do it...............BECAUSE THEIR TEENAGERS!!!
An people saying that they don't know the consequences of their actions is hogwash. A lot of these kids have very good GPA's and most of them realize that if you throw a hard object at some one, theirs potential that some one could get hurt. I'm pretty sure they can figure that out, we're not talking about 12 and 13 year-olds.
As far as they didn't have to hit a batter, yeah, your right, I don't think they had to either, but once again, I don't think teenagers have to drink when they go to their high school field parties on a Friday night, BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY. An if you think that teenagers don't, you're only lying to yourself. The bottom line is that if a teenager and his team think that they have to hit someone for showboating or throwing at one of their own and retaliating, then they're going to do it...............BECAUSE THEIR TEENAGERS!!!
So because their teenagers and their going to do it anyway then we should look the other way? That's the impression I'm getting from your post. It's wrong but there is no chance of stopping them because the coach is clueless and has no idea. Makes sense. I guess that means we can allow bank robbers to get away with it because they are going to do it and the cops aren't smart enough to stop it ahead of time.
I'm not the smartest guy in the world but I think I'm smart enough to know when a situation might lead a player to think they have to drill a batter. If a coach calls for it or if he looks the other way they are wrong. You are right in that teenagers (and all ages) will push the rules. They push because they are teenagers but that doesn't mean the adults should allow it to happen because we all know it goes on.
I'm not the smartest guy in the world but I think I'm smart enough to know when a situation might lead a player to think they have to drill a batter. If a coach calls for it or if he looks the other way they are wrong. You are right in that teenagers (and all ages) will push the rules. They push because they are teenagers but that doesn't mean the adults should allow it to happen because we all know it goes on.
I hope that you're not comparing breaking the law to throwing a baseball at a kid, I mean, let's get serious here.
I'm not saying that the coach should look the other way, what I'm saying is the coach wouldn't know to begin with. Can you give me a situation where you can identify when a kid needs to throw at a player?
When I'm talking about kids that throw at someone, it's not more then one throw, the kid gets one shot, if you miss in that one pitch, you lost your chance. It happens that way cause nobody can say you threw at the kid cause the pitcher can easily say that the pitch just got away from him. The kids I know that have thrown at players did it on their own. The coach never knew. An I'm talking about coaches that are legends in my area. They've been coaching a very long time. Y'see, the kids don't talk about it openly cause they know their coach won't approve of it. They don't get all red in the face and do whatever someone else said earlier in this thread. They control their emotion in the dugout and decide as a team if they need to retaliate or not. I'm not talking about just one kid taking it upon himself and take matters into his own hands. If your teammates don't agree, then it doesn't happen and that has happened before. Teenagers are very sneaky and they can do a lot of things that the most controlling coach would never know.
An if the coach thinks he's smart enough to assume that a kid threw at a hitter, all the kid can say is, "coach it got away from me".
Let me explain something, I don't condone a coach ordering a hit at all. I think a coach that does that has no business in the game.
I'm not saying that the coach should look the other way, what I'm saying is the coach wouldn't know to begin with. Can you give me a situation where you can identify when a kid needs to throw at a player?
When I'm talking about kids that throw at someone, it's not more then one throw, the kid gets one shot, if you miss in that one pitch, you lost your chance. It happens that way cause nobody can say you threw at the kid cause the pitcher can easily say that the pitch just got away from him. The kids I know that have thrown at players did it on their own. The coach never knew. An I'm talking about coaches that are legends in my area. They've been coaching a very long time. Y'see, the kids don't talk about it openly cause they know their coach won't approve of it. They don't get all red in the face and do whatever someone else said earlier in this thread. They control their emotion in the dugout and decide as a team if they need to retaliate or not. I'm not talking about just one kid taking it upon himself and take matters into his own hands. If your teammates don't agree, then it doesn't happen and that has happened before. Teenagers are very sneaky and they can do a lot of things that the most controlling coach would never know.
An if the coach thinks he's smart enough to assume that a kid threw at a hitter, all the kid can say is, "coach it got away from me".
Let me explain something, I don't condone a coach ordering a hit at all. I think a coach that does that has no business in the game.
quote:can identify when a kid needs to throw at a player?
NEVER !!!
I'm posting this with trepidation it will change the flow of the conversation. I won't respond to any posts. But a few have asked what my son is doing looking back.
When he enters the box and sets up he looks back once to see if his hands are in the right place. It was a training mechanism that became a habit. He only does it setting up before the first pitch. He's not looking back on any other pitches. He looking back before the catcher should be even giving signals and setting up. Given he's looking at his hands, which he holds top of the helmet high, his line of sight would be towards the sky if he was looking past his hands.
No coach had ever complained in three years. If the opposing coach had an issue with it, he should have said something to my son's coach. But it was a twenty-five year old (guessing) coach who spent an entire game making a spectacle of himself as if the game was about him.
When he enters the box and sets up he looks back once to see if his hands are in the right place. It was a training mechanism that became a habit. He only does it setting up before the first pitch. He's not looking back on any other pitches. He looking back before the catcher should be even giving signals and setting up. Given he's looking at his hands, which he holds top of the helmet high, his line of sight would be towards the sky if he was looking past his hands.
No coach had ever complained in three years. If the opposing coach had an issue with it, he should have said something to my son's coach. But it was a twenty-five year old (guessing) coach who spent an entire game making a spectacle of himself as if the game was about him.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:quote:can identify when a kid needs to throw at a player?
NEVER !!!
Of coarse in an adults view, and I agree with that 100%, but in a teenagers point of view, it doesn't happen that way. It's just reality.
Like I said before, you can tell a teenager to "NEVER" drink when they go to a party while in high school, you can tell a teenager to never speed while driving, you can tell a teenager to never have anyone in your house while you and the ol'lady go out of town. In reality, most of the time "never" is not in their vocabulary.
My son just graduated from college and I can tell you he would never throw at a batter. He played on as many as 4 teams a season and never threw at a batter and was never asked to. I suppose there are some idiots that might do something that stupid but I didn't know any.
I was also around MiLB for 10+ years and knew the players personally. Many are in MLB and they would never try to hit a batter. They will move them off the plate and were not afraid to hit them but would not intentionally do so.
Most of the idiots get weeded out. It is amazing how idiots seem to standout in a bad way.
I was also around MiLB for 10+ years and knew the players personally. Many are in MLB and they would never try to hit a batter. They will move them off the plate and were not afraid to hit them but would not intentionally do so.
Most of the idiots get weeded out. It is amazing how idiots seem to standout in a bad way.
Well if you wait until they are a teenager to teach them how to drink responsibly or how to drive responsibly then it's too late. That's like trying to put out a forest fire by throwing a cup of water. You got to take care of this when they are young. My JV coaches did not allow pitchers to throw at batters so they didn't do it at varsity level.
Yes I know when a situation might call for a hit batter and I cannot recall one single time I felt my pitcher went after a kid or even maybe had one "get away from him".
You said hitting a batter is not the same as a crime but try googling it. There have been people charged with assault. I would post things but the security is blocking the search for some reason. It's only a matter of time before it happens and it goes to court and bad things happen.
Yes I know when a situation might call for a hit batter and I cannot recall one single time I felt my pitcher went after a kid or even maybe had one "get away from him".
You said hitting a batter is not the same as a crime but try googling it. There have been people charged with assault. I would post things but the security is blocking the search for some reason. It's only a matter of time before it happens and it goes to court and bad things happen.
Interesting aspect here----nobody has said where the home plate umpire was in all this---if the coach said/yelled what he did,didn't the umpire hear it---they hear people in the stands chirping, gotta love their acute hearing abilities when they want to, and they can't hear this !!!!!
Interesting picture that has been painted---by the way was this game in PA?
Interesting picture that has been painted---by the way was this game in PA?
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
What if the guy is twice as big as you and is known to have a black belt? Then how do we handle this? Probably the same way we would if he was twice as small and twice as old! I doubt that a meeting in the parking lot is likely to produce good results, either way.
Come on PG, you should know size doesn't matter. I wouldn't care how big he is.
As for the "black belt", it's hard to do karate when you're rolling on the ground.
An the "good results" would be my kid watching me take up for him, no matter what. It's better then being soft filing lawsuits and such.
wellswood,
We all lose our temper at times, but what you are condoning here would be described as an assault! Youth sports has a long history of MAD Dads and assault. In fact, I remember one case that turned into a murder charge.
I understand where you're coming from, but you won't end up behind bars for filing a law suit. On the other hand, I think there are way too many law suits these days.
Let the team, coach and players deal with these issues. Let the game handle it. This all sounds like a poor job of umpiring to me.
Bottom line, parents can not fight every battle for their kids. Pitchers seldom throw at hitters, pitchers do send messages. Pitchers need to throw inside at times. Pitchers miss their spot sometimes. For a parent to analize everything exactly correct would be rare. Parents seem to be very partial and don't always think right. I know because I was/am a parent.
A dad physically attacking someone is a very poor lesson to send to the kids. The results of that action are... You get the **** kicked out of you!... You beat the hell out of someone!... And your kid sees how out of control you are! IMO None of these things provide any positive results.
Note: I used to be a fighter, then I got older and became a thinker! Not sure if that is because of wisdom or necessity.
My Dad was a lawyer and defended sports guys who were charged with assault during a game/\. One was a hockey player who speared a goal judge through a screen and struck him in the throat almost killing him. He lost big time.
I have 4 adult children and none of them ever did the things you refer to. We taught them right from wrong and showed them the consequences of a bad decision. There were lots of tragic examples all around us.
I have 4 adult children and none of them ever did the things you refer to. We taught them right from wrong and showed them the consequences of a bad decision. There were lots of tragic examples all around us.
Bobblehead - You confuse me a little because I know you know baseball from the inside out.
First, I agree...never a good idea to intentionally hit a batter. But it happens. I'd be willing to bet a dinner or two you've seen it happen...I'll guess you just didn't recognize what you were seeing.
As for the "idiot" comment...I do get your point. But by your description, you'd have to include Bob Gibson, Tony LaRussa and a host of other very famous and successful ball players/managers. But that is certainly no excuse whatsoever for a HS (or anyone) to do it and on that we certainly agree.
First, I agree...never a good idea to intentionally hit a batter. But it happens. I'd be willing to bet a dinner or two you've seen it happen...I'll guess you just didn't recognize what you were seeing.
As for the "idiot" comment...I do get your point. But by your description, you'd have to include Bob Gibson, Tony LaRussa and a host of other very famous and successful ball players/managers. But that is certainly no excuse whatsoever for a HS (or anyone) to do it and on that we certainly agree.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Never heard a coach tell a pitcher to hit a batter. I Also never seen a pitcher intentionally hit a batter.
Seen lots of people accuse coaches and pitchers of doing it but it just doesn't happen. just part of the myth people like to spin.
I saw a pitcher hit a batter intentionally just a little over a month ago, in a high school game. F1 threw an inside pitch which just ticked the short sleeve of the batter's jersey. The batter hadn't moved; he didn't think the pitch would hit him or his uniform. The umpire awarded first base, and F1 was visibly upset. As the next batter was setting up in the box, a long time baseball coach (the field is named after him) remarked to me: "Look at his body posture--he's going to throw at [the batter]". The next high 80s fastball split the batter's box. The umpire started for the mound, but F1's coach asked to talk to the pitcher, and successfully kept his pitcher in the game. F1 came to bat later in the game, and in a quick conversation with the umpire, admitted that he had tried to show the umpire just what a real HBP looked like.
I'm pleased to say that there was no retaliation.
But it's not a myth that pitchers sometimes throw at batters.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My son just graduated from college and I can tell you he would never throw at a batter. He played on as many as 4 teams a season and never threw at a batter and was never asked to. I suppose there are some idiots that might do something that stupid but I didn't know any.
I was also around MiLB for 10+ years and knew the players personally. Many are in MLB and they would never try to hit a batter. They will move them off the plate and were not afraid to hit them but would not intentionally do so.
Most of the idiots get weeded out. It is amazing how idiots seem to standout in a bad way.
BBHD: I can't believe you are in such a denial. Major league have suspended many players for intentionaly hit batters. It was all on records. What are you trying to defend for? Baseball's integrity? Your son didn't try to hit any batters maybe because he is a good kid, it doesn't mean others will do the same. There's no myth about throw at batters, everyone know it except you. LMFAO
check out this news headlines:
Baltimore's Daniel Caera and the Yankees' Edwar Ramirez were suspended and fined by the league for intentionally throwing at batters during a series between the ...
Cleveland Indians starter Kevin Millwood was suspended for five games Friday and reliever David Riske for four games for intentionally hitting batters during a game ...
Carter was suspended for intentionally throwing at batters in the top of the ... benches emptied on September 27 when Tampa Bay's Scott Kazmir hit two batters ...
... pitcher Frank Castillo was suspended for five games for hitting a batter last ... Watson said Rupe intentionally hit Nomar Garciaparra and Shea Hillenbrand ...
Ryan Rupe intentionally hit two batters, Frank Castillo accepted the free shot ... And Castillo gets suspended for five days, Nixon four and Rupe none? ...
The link:
http://search.yahoo.com/search...&fr2=sp-qrw-corr-top
My take: the umpires were really weak here. (TR is right; they can hear a groan from 180 feet)
2)Only one of the coaches involved was really an adult. He tried to take the high road and not turn it into a spectacle... I have been involved in these where the tension got pretty high.
You should at least speak with some Legion officials; I worked in the Legion system for 9 years and they do not want this type of thing going on. If he has a few other complaints they will probably can the guy.
2)Only one of the coaches involved was really an adult. He tried to take the high road and not turn it into a spectacle... I have been involved in these where the tension got pretty high.
You should at least speak with some Legion officials; I worked in the Legion system for 9 years and they do not want this type of thing going on. If he has a few other complaints they will probably can the guy.
You could ask Sal Maglie and Don Drysdale about throwing at batters----that was part of their arsenal
JB I used to talk to MiLB pitchers all the time. Often when they came off the field. Many were visibly upset they hit a batter. Not because they hurt the batter but because they put him on base. Pitcher hate walking batters and hitting them. It happens but it isn't the desired result. Striking them out is always the better option. It hurts much more than being hit by a ball.
So what your saying is that if you teach a kid to drive responsibly from the beginning, you honestly think they won't speed once they go driving on their own with maybe a couple of friends in their car? So what your saying is if you teach a kid to drink responsibly he won't get drunk when he's at a high school party with no parents in sight and with girls around? What world do you live in man? Let's get back to reality here.
I'm not saying that what you said is the wrong thing to do, it just doesn't happen that way with teenagers.
As far as your JV coaches not allowing a player to throw at a hitter, therefore they don't do it at the varsity level, did you understand my comment about the coach not even knowing? I don't think you really did.
Of all the times that your pitcher has hit a batter, how do you really know that the hitter wasn't hit on purpose just once? You really really don't know for a fact. You can say in his reaction it didn't seemed he hit him on purpose, do to the situation he would never hit the batter. You never really know. These teammates could have talked about hitting that batter all week over their myspace or facebook conversations. Nobody never knows what really is going on in the mind of a teenager, not even their parents most of the time.
I'm not saying that what you said is the wrong thing to do, it just doesn't happen that way with teenagers.
As far as your JV coaches not allowing a player to throw at a hitter, therefore they don't do it at the varsity level, did you understand my comment about the coach not even knowing? I don't think you really did.
Of all the times that your pitcher has hit a batter, how do you really know that the hitter wasn't hit on purpose just once? You really really don't know for a fact. You can say in his reaction it didn't seemed he hit him on purpose, do to the situation he would never hit the batter. You never really know. These teammates could have talked about hitting that batter all week over their myspace or facebook conversations. Nobody never knows what really is going on in the mind of a teenager, not even their parents most of the time.
3finger: did the ump kick the kid out of the game??? and if not; that is some poor umpiring!
Hey PG, go re-read my post cause you seem to skip the parts where I said I'm against throwing at a hitter. It's just I'm trying to explain that it still will happen cause their teenagers. I DO NOT CONDONE HITTING A BATTER!!!!
There PG, I said it.........AGAIN!
There PG, I said it.........AGAIN!
This is why you don't throw at a batter...
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...616002781/m/59310219
How short of memory we have.
BTW-- I'm not saying the linked incident was due to an intent to injure because I don't believe it was. But scary still....
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...616002781/m/59310219
How short of memory we have.
BTW-- I'm not saying the linked incident was due to an intent to injure because I don't believe it was. But scary still....
Bobblehead - I'm sure you've seen pitchers at all levels upset after hitting a batter. Not all HBP's are intentional...most are not intentional.
But that is no evidence, whatsoever, that it doesn't happen. It does. Your son may not have done it and he may not want to tell you about it, but he knows it happens.
If the story described here was portrayed accurately...it did happen on purpose. The umpire did a lousy job and the coach needs a good talkin' too...and maybe more.
But that is no evidence, whatsoever, that it doesn't happen. It does. Your son may not have done it and he may not want to tell you about it, but he knows it happens.
If the story described here was portrayed accurately...it did happen on purpose. The umpire did a lousy job and the coach needs a good talkin' too...and maybe more.
TRhit,
Good trivia.
Sal "The Barber" Maglie...known for giving hitters that extra close shave.
Was thinking about him myself while following this thread.
Good trivia.
Sal "The Barber" Maglie...known for giving hitters that extra close shave.
Was thinking about him myself while following this thread.
Part of their arsenal was the BS they spun. Roger Clemens will never admit the ball got away. It struck fear in the minds of hitters. If it were true you would have the other pitcher hitting batters to retaliate.
I have asked pro pitchers at picnics and other events if they intentionally hit batters and they smile and say no. Yes they run inside FBs to intimidate but they don't want to put them on base.
I have asked pro pitchers at picnics and other events if they intentionally hit batters and they smile and say no. Yes they run inside FBs to intimidate but they don't want to put them on base.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
A dad physically attacking someone is a very poor lesson to send to the kids. The results of that action are... You get the **** kicked out of you!... You beat the hell out of someone!... And your kid sees how out of control you are! IMO None of these things provide any positive results.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with you on that your kid will see you as an out of control parent. I would say your kid see's it as you protecting him.
It's just like if an adult should ever punch your kid in the face and your kid see's you go kick the **** out of the guy that just hit him. Your kid will see that his dad is protecting him. You can say all you want about, oh, I'll just call the cops or I'll have him arrested. When the truth is, is that you'd go punch the guys light's out if he punched your kid. An that reasoning is related to this story in the fact that the coach ordered the pitcher to hit my son where the parent of that kid heard the opponents coach say it.
quote:Respectfully, I have to disagree with you on that your kid will see you as an out of control parent. I would say your kid see's it as you protecting him.
What a warped view you have.
Do you have a kid ?
By the way you would both be in jail in your scenario.
I called the local organization who runs the USSSA tournaments. I filed a report as requested. They're going to provide the name of the coach.quote:You should at least speak with some Legion officials; I worked in the Legion system for 9 years and they do not want this type of thing going on.
I contracted the head of the district the Legion is from. I couldn't match up the team name they use as a travel team with any team on the Legion website. The district person said he would forward all the information to the state level as soon as I provide the name. In his response he stated Legion ball never condones this behavior.
I don't want to see the coach fired. I would like to see him suspended and hope he learns from his actions.