Is anyone happy??

Yep, stay away from those people and continue to enjoy the ride.

I've found that most of the time Johnny is just fine with how he's being played, it is the parents who are the problem. In the rare cases when this is not the case, Johnny may quit before he gets to 18U ball.

Enjoy!

As my son grew up, I heard both that it got better and that it got worse when you hit high school, as far as parents are concerned. I have only seen it get worst. I remember when my son was a freshman and was playing JV. It seemed all the sophomore parents would openly root against the freshmen because they were mad some sophomores got cut to make room. Luckily as we moved to varsity this past season, it seemed to die down, but it was pretty bad last year.

As much as I think my son is getting from his travel team, I really think that this is to blame for a lot of the selfishness. Parents will complain that their son is not getting the looks that he should be getting. And lets be honest, when others fail, it makes your son look better. Case in point, my son was playing in a showcase game and pitched the first 4 innings without allowing a run. Next guy comes in and gives up a couple his first inning. Not that I was hoping it would happen, but it made my son look better, didnt it? Just kind of a strange dynamic.

A quick story - not only are others not happy - they presume we are not happy.

Son was playing Legion Ball for awhile this summer. We were thrilled that he got a fair amount of playing time and many at bats. The coach and the team were great! Son played several positions as needed. One game - as we set up our chairs in a position where the entire field was visible except the third base line - I noticed my son walk out to take his defensive position at third. I made an off hand comment - "sure, he would be playing third today". A couple folks around me presumed I was complaining and the conversation took off in that direction. I was just grousing because it was the only spot on the field I could not see! I thought I was being funny!

BTW, it doesn't necessarily stop in college either...even with a coach who's been doing it 30+ years and won national championships. Half the parents still think their son is getting hosed...or that the coach makes lousy decisions, pitch after pitch.

It just is what it is I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
As much as I think my son is getting from his travel team, I really think that this is to blame for a lot of the selfishness. Parents will complain that their son is not getting the looks that he should be getting. And lets be honest, when others fail, it makes your son look better. Case in point, my son was playing in a showcase game and pitched the first 4 innings without allowing a run. Next guy comes in and gives up a couple his first inning. Not that I was hoping it would happen, but it made my son look better, didnt it? Just kind of a strange dynamic.

No, the second pitchers performance has nothing to do on how your son would be evaluated. Your son is evaluated on several things in his innings pitched: velocity, location, movement..... Once your son left the mound, a scout, coach or evaluator watching made their assessment based on what he himself(your son) did. When the next pitcher came in they would do the same for him. Not always but at times the pitcher who gave up a couple runs could actually have more value to an evaluator because of their velocity, movement.... even if a couple runs were scored off of him and depending how the runs were scored.

Even though you were not rooting against the second pitcher that gave up 2 runs, your thought process on how players are evaluated is just as wrong as those that do.

Stay away from negative people. Period. Stay away from them. If you can not get away from them rain down positive comments to them and to those around you. They will either go away or they will shut up.

It is just a game. Yes that's right it is just a game. To your son its not. He is young and he is doing what he loves to do and its his passion. It is huge to him. So it becomes huge to us. But we are the parent. We have to keep this thing in perspective or how do we expect our kids to? How can we expect our kids to stay positive if we are negative? How do we expect our kids to fight through adversity when we can not?

Spend a day at a Ronald McDonald house. Spend a day with kids who have weeks to live if they are lucky. Spend a day with their parents. Think about the parents who have young men in combat right now. Think about the parents that got that phone call no one wants to get in the middle of the night. Think about the kids that went to bed last night hungry and then went off to school with no breakfast. I wonder if they or their parents think baseball is life?

The next time your upset or sitting beside someone upset about baseball take the time to put this thing in perspective. Our kids play a game they love to play. They love it and its very important to them. But that does not change the fact that it is still just a game and not life and death. These parents have not learned this yet. By the time most of them do its all over and they wish they could go back and just enjoy watching their son do something he loves to do.

Ignore these people and stay positive. Its not that big of a deal.

quote:

Stay away from negative people. Period. Stay away from them. If you can not get away from them rain down positive comments to them and to those around you. They will either go away or they will shut up.

Perhaps the most positive parents I have ever run across are recent Oakland A's callup Michael Taylor's parents. Genuinely kind-hearted people, they looked for the +'s with every kid and coach on their son's team at Stanford.

Still communicate by email with them. His dad used to post on here occasionally...haven't seen him on here in a while. He always had a slightly different and unique look at things...one I found very refreshing.

BTW, Michael is a very nice guy as well. Fruit doesn't fall far from the tree...again.

quote:

Originally posted by shortnquick:

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
As much as I think my son is getting from his travel team, I really think that this is to blame for a lot of the selfishness. Parents will complain that their son is not getting the looks that he should be getting. And lets be honest, when others fail, it makes your son look better. Case in point, my son was playing in a showcase game and pitched the first 4 innings without allowing a run. Next guy comes in and gives up a couple his first inning. Not that I was hoping it would happen, but it made my son look better, didnt it? Just kind of a strange dynamic.

No, the second pitchers performance has nothing to do on how your son would be evaluated. Your son is evaluated on several things in his innings pitched: velocity, location, movement..... Once your son left the mound, a scout, coach or evaluator watching made their assessment based on what he himself(your son) did. When the next pitcher came in they would do the same for him. Not always but at times the pitcher who gave up a couple runs could actually have more value to an evaluator because of their velocity, movement.... even if a couple runs were scored off of him and depending how the runs were scored.

Even though you were not rooting against the second pitcher that gave up 2 runs, your thought process on how players are evaluated is just as wrong as those that do.

Oops, just giving a hypothetical there. I dont actually think it does make my son look better, just trying to put as how some parents think. I just used my son as an example.

To me it seems that the better his team is, the better he may be percieved to be as a player. But I could be wrong there.

This is why we didn't name either of our boys Johnny.

What Coach May said!! Stay positive and bring it home too! I always took a camera so I could wander off and get some "good shots" when it got to be too much.

The best memories I have is of son's 13u team. We parents had the best time cheering all of the kids. We laughed, we got rowdy.... we embarrassed the kids a few times I think. There was no grousing or negativity towards our guys or the other teams. Maybe the umpires, but... you know.... that happens.

Things get weird when parents think little Johnny is worthy of a scholly. When you talk money, or lack thereof, people get a little crazy. The 13u team... no pressure, no worries. The showcase teams, we hardly knew each others names. Totally mercenary. The high school team is a mix of both.

quote:

Originally posted by shortnquick:

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
As much as I think my son is getting from his travel team, I really think that this is to blame for a lot of the selfishness. Parents will complain that their son is not getting the looks that he should be getting. And lets be honest, when others fail, it makes your son look better. Case in point, my son was playing in a showcase game and pitched the first 4 innings without allowing a run. Next guy comes in and gives up a couple his first inning. Not that I was hoping it would happen, but it made my son look better, didnt it? Just kind of a strange dynamic.

No, the second pitchers performance has nothing to do on how your son would be evaluated. Your son is evaluated on several things in his innings pitched: velocity, location, movement..... Once your son left the mound, a scout, coach or evaluator watching made their assessment based on what he himself(your son) did. When the next pitcher came in they would do the same for him. Not always but at times the pitcher who gave up a couple runs could actually have more value to an evaluator because of their velocity, movement.... even if a couple runs were scored off of him and depending how the runs were scored.

Even though you were not rooting against the second pitcher that gave up 2 runs, your thought process on how players are evaluated is just as wrong as those that do.

Not always entirely true. My son pitched the 1st 4 innings of a game that a college scout came to watch him pitch in. Son was not as sharp as he usually is, but he battled giving up only one unearned run. Left the game tied 1-1.

After my son pitched, the scout left the game and called son afterwards, said he liked what he saw and asked how the game wound up. We lost 4-1.

Well, when we went to the school for a showcase event and coaches were talking to myself, wife and son, I mentioned that son was not really at his best that day. Coach said "All I know is things fell apart after you left." Sometimes it does matter. It kind of shows how your player does vs. other pitchers against the same competition.

I agree wholeheartedly about the negativity issue. I really have a hard time listening to complaining. This time goes by WAY to quickly. We all need to enjoy the ride and appreciate all the time we have with our boys because it will be over soon.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:

quote:

Originally posted by shortnquick:

quote:

Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
As much as I think my son is getting from his travel team, I really think that this is to blame for a lot of the selfishness. Parents will complain that their son is not getting the looks that he should be getting. And lets be honest, when others fail, it makes your son look better. Case in point, my son was playing in a showcase game and pitched the first 4 innings without allowing a run. Next guy comes in and gives up a couple his first inning. Not that I was hoping it would happen, but it made my son look better, didnt it? Just kind of a strange dynamic.

No, the second pitchers performance has nothing to do on how your son would be evaluated. Your son is evaluated on several things in his innings pitched: velocity, location, movement..... Once your son left the mound, a scout, coach or evaluator watching made their assessment based on what he himself(your son) did. When the next pitcher came in they would do the same for him. Not always but at times the pitcher who gave up a couple runs could actually have more value to an evaluator because of their velocity, movement.... even if a couple runs were scored off of him and depending how the runs were scored.

Even though you were not rooting against the second pitcher that gave up 2 runs, your thought process on how players are evaluated is just as wrong as those that do.

Not always entirely true. My son pitched the 1st 4 innings of a game that a college scout came to watch him pitch in. Son was not as sharp as he usually is, but he battled giving up only one unearned run. Left the game tied 1-1.

After my son pitched, the scout left the game and called son afterwards, said he liked what he saw and asked how the game wound up. We lost 4-1.

Well, when we went to the school for a showcase event and coaches were talking to myself, wife and son, I mentioned that son was not really at his best that day. Coach said "All I know is things fell apart after you left." Sometimes it does matter. It kind of shows how your player does vs. other pitchers against the same competition.

I believe in most evaluators opinions it still doesn't make your son better because someone else was worse. For example , if your son was ranked as a 8 on a PG scale, and the next pitcher comes in and would be considered a 6 against the same competition. Your son doesn't move up to a 9 because the pitcher after him did worse. I do believe this backwards thinking of player evaluation does have an affect on the original posters main point on unhappy parents in the stands.

The discussion has brought up another point I hate to hear - parents hoping one kid fails so Johnny looks better.

I HATE that!!!

Tell Johnny to get better, separate himself and shine on his own freking merits!!

I want the kids my son competes with/against to be at their absolute BEST. Otherwise, what glory is there in winning a spot??

I alternate between happy and unhappy. If I don't catch myself and stop whining, the wife will.

The baseball journey has so many ups and downs that you just need to be even keeled through success and failures. With that said, we would never change anything. Made some good friends ( in the real and online world) and avoided some along the way. We are HAPPY that he has a chance to contribute to his teams for the last 8-9 years and hoping to contribute more at the next level when he finds the right fit by next fall!

This is an interesting discussion, "true but sad".

In my 28 years of International Baseball and the Area Code games, a few parents have exhibited this behavior. My son called it "entitlement".

Parents who expend $$ and time to their son's pursuit of a college scholarship often are "blinded" of the objective of the young man to play the game.

The young player is normally realistic of his ability and enjoys the friendships and the "fun" of playing baseball.

During my 28 years with the International Goodwill Series and Area Code games, there were few surprises. The reason was our coaches who are pro scouts. When the scout is coaching, he is representing his ML team and the players respect the uniform and the coach. They are learning each minute of every game. The focus and concentration is outstanding.

Last year in Australia, the Dante Bichette family traveled with our Cubs
and Rangers team.

Dante Sr. shared his experiences and instruction to over 300 young baseball players from Australia, Mexico and USA. Dante Jr. signed with the Yankees and was recently named "player of year" in the Gulf Coast League
Our coaches - pro scouts.

The opportunity for players and parents "to learn" is always available.
It can be a game of "work up" or the World Series.

Bob

I will say, unequivocally, I do not root for someone else to fail. Sometimes it gives me a little validation for the job my guy has done seeing how other pitchers do against the same team, but I would never want a teammate to fail. In fact I go out of my way to approach the player and his parents when they play well to congratulate them both.

My son is a pretty good infielder as well as a pitcher. His achillies heel is hitting. He can be good, but he is very streaky and can go on long hitting slumps. Several parents have complained to me that my son is not in at SS and say how much better he is than the kid in there. I simply tell them that so and so is hitting much better. Son may be better in the field, but he needs to start hitting to get in there. That pretty much ends the complaining.

I have even brought it up to my son. I tell him that if he was hitting better, he would probably be in the lineup and he totally agrees. I think all parents need the ability to see the weaknesses in their player's games as well as the strengths. I know this - the players know. They will tell you in a heartbeat who the best players are and who should be in the lineup.

If I get frustrated with anyone in these scenarios, it is with my son, not the coach.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
BTW, it doesn't necessarily stop in college either...

Or beyond.....

Johnny is not drafted...should have been.

Johnny is drafted...should have been a higher round

Johnny is drafted in a high round...should have gotten more $.

Johnny is assigned to an organization team...should have been a higher level.

Johnny got drafted high, got big $...should have been called up.

Johnny got called up...should have been so before player X.

Johnny got called up quickly...should be getting PT.

...and so it goes...human nature..Cooperstown may be the only happy result.


On the other hand on our baseball oddessy we had the opoortunity to meet and great about 10 former MLB players and managers and most all of them had incredible perspective. They saw the game for what is was, the value of the team, the experience, the lessons learned, and they understood the difficulty and fickle nature of the path. They understood the trip as a marathon not a sprint and were willing to let it unfold.

44
.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
...and so it goes...human nature..Cooperstown may be the only happy result.

Wrong.... Johnny should have been a first ballot hall of famer rather than having to wait 13 years like Bert Blyleven

quote:

Our kids play a game they love to play. They love it and its very important to them. But that does not change the fact that it is still just a game and not life and death. These parents have not learned this yet. By the time most of them do its all over and they wish they could go back and just enjoy watching their son do something he loves to do.

Ignore these people and stay positive. Its not that big of a deal.

Very well put Coach May!!!

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
In fact I go out of my way to approach the player and his parents when they play well to congratulate them both.

This reminds me... as a pitcher Dad, you know at the end of the game, everyone is either going to:
- say great job, etc. (if we win)
- or, ignore you

I appreciate the mourning process.

quote:

Coach May said..... Stay away from negative people. Period. Stay away from them. If you can not get away from them rain down positive comments to them and to those around you. They will either go away or they will shut up.

B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L !

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
...and so it goes...human nature..Cooperstown may be the only happy result.

Wrong.... Johnny should have been a first ballot hall of famer rather than having to wait 13 years like Bert Blyleven

Touche!....

Johnny gets in first ballot...why isn't he top 50 all time?

Can't let this go without noting another golden effort from The Master May...

44
.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
I alternate between happy and unhappy. If I don't catch myself and stop whining, the wife will.

Ditto that Sultan. You gotta love em for keeping us grounded.

Johnny this Johnny that How about Johny stinks and they should be glad he gets playing time?

sorry for the cynisism but to young guys getting into coaching it is bad now and will only get worse.

I read an absolutely epic rant penned by a U. Houston parent a couple of years ago. It bordered on psychotic and went on an on about how the player was not afforded the "fair" amount of playing time there. It is still on deadspin.com and memorialized on college message boards. SRCG (Severe Rose-Colored Glasses)syndome at its deepest.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
BTW, it doesn't necessarily stop in college either...

Or beyond.....

Johnny is not drafted...should have been.

Johnny is drafted...should have been a higher round

Johnny is drafted in a high round...should have gotten more $.

Johnny is assigned to an organization team...should have been a higher level.

Johnny got drafted high, got big $...should have been called up.

Johnny got called up...should have been so before player X.

Johnny got called up quickly...should be getting PT.

...and so it goes...human nature..Cooperstown may be the only happy result.


On the other hand on our baseball oddessy we had the opoortunity to meet and great about 10 former MLB players and managers and most all of them had incredible perspective. They saw the game for what is was, the value of the team, the experience, the lessons learned, and they understood the difficulty and fickle nature of the path. They understood the trip as a marathon not a sprint and were willing to let it unfold.

44
.

Funny stuff, 44. Entitlement knows no levels, as the OP will discover along the way.

It's also why I've always told my kid never to hang around anybody named Johnny.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
I read an absolutely epic rant penned by a U. Houston parent a couple of years ago. It bordered on psychotic and went on an on about how the player was not afforded the "fair" amount of playing time there. It is still on deadspin.com and memorialized on college message boards. SRCG (Severe Rose-Colored Glasses)syndome at its deepest.

Compare this with the quotes in other threads complaining about the commitment required to play D1 baseball. Does he really think his son didn't get a chance to show your stuff in all those hours?

Maybe he did show his stuff...

Here's an interesting story, may help with keeping a positive perspective.

Player A is a solid freshman at a nationally recruited, top-level program. Player B is a solid (2yr) JUCO transfer, both are competing for the #1 spot and are sharing fall reps.

The third week of fall workouts, two more players are added to the mix, Player C and Player D. Both Players C and D are solid JUCO guys too. The parents of Player A, worry the freshman is getting weeded out of the mix. As week 3 progresses, Player C and D give a good effort, but are returned to their original positions. As of week 4, Players A and B continue their competitive process.

As it turns out, the move was to motivate player C, it had absolutely nothing to do with Player A. To his credit, Player A continued to work hard.

I think it's human nature to worry about our kids, we hate to see them unhappy or hurt. Or worse, we assume they are being treated unfairly. In the end, you will be much happier if you just allow their continued growth, a little bloody nose every once in a while doesn't hurt. Also, happiness depends solely on what you think, so you really are in control!

Just sayin'... GED10DaD

Life isn't always fair. No matter how brilliant you may be you won't be chairman of the board at Ford Motor Company unless your name is Ford. Learn to roll with the punches.

I told my son as long as he's in the lineup anywhere he has the opportunity to prove where he should play and where he should bat. If he's not in the lineup practice like it's the seventh game of the World Series.

The only year playing time was in issue was when the head coach took out our differences (I was assistant) on my son. I told him to take my lead on practicing patience. I did get a little exuberant the following year when my son took away a game winning homer against his former team for the last out of the game.

It's a long season. You have to find a way to enjoy it.