Let me ask the question again:
Do bat manufacturers have the obligation to prove no increased risk from metal vs wood when they are the ones putting the bats into the stream of commerce and generating large, very large sums of money?
BTW, yes it is that study that compared the best hitters in college baseball using wood in Summer Wood bat leagues with hitters(41% of them who play DIII and only 18% of whom play DI(level unknown) using metal. Bumps and bruises...geez, they had to lose game time to be included.
Have you seen Cape Cod league games and the quality of those hitters?
Have you seen a game played by schools at many DIII programs and the quality of those hitters?
Is it your view that they are hitters of equal ability? Is it is your opinion that a DIII hitter generates similar bat speed with metal as a DI hitter at UT, ASU, Clemson, etc so that conclusions are accurately drawn from their comparison?
The expert evidence in the Montana lawsuit established a metal bat gets the ball to a pitchers head faster than human reaction time.
I would imagine with all the research capability you have, you have research that shows this conclusion is correct or incorrect, don't you.
I know, I know, I am just another emotional, political basket case or just jump to knee jerk reactions, like so many others.
If I understand correctly, you extensive ability to research and sequentially produce the articles you do justify your moving from this position in January:
"I am just glad my son doesn't pitch! I could see pitchers wearing goalie facesmasks soon if things weren't slated to change in 2012."
Since my son isn't playing anymore, I don't have to address these risks for him and his safety. I guess you are now saying you would put your son on the pitchers mound with 100% confidence until 2012.
What I read is others are not so confident as the change of opinion you made in just 2 short months.
I will respect their right to hold their views equally with your ability to change opinions so rapidly.
quote:“The overriding reason was to afford the kids a better Little League experience,’’ said Doyle. “[With wood bats,] if you don’t hit the ball on the sweet spot of the bat . . . the bats in many cases break, and the ball doesn’t go anywhere. The kids don’t have that feeling of achievement like they did anything.’’
That, in a nutshell, says it all. Mommy and Daddy want junior to hit the ball harder and out of the park more often.
As for the LL study...I'd like to see how the study was conducted because if they measured exit speed based on a bat swing of equal speed...it doesn't mean a whole lot to me and shouldn't to you either.
Let's take off the baseball purest hats and think as if wearing the hat of the bat manufacturer. How would you explain the closing of the metal bat production to the employees and stockholders without having data that 100% verified that metal was statistically deadly, or that the competition was not following suit? Remember the hat you are wearing.
I think that before pointing fingers a good look in the mirror will find that most of us at one time bought metal and as a result started this circus.
I think that before pointing fingers a good look in the mirror will find that most of us at one time bought metal and as a result started this circus.
Of course I bought metal bats...for myself as a kid and for my own kids...that was then, this is now. I didn't think about the risks at all...just knew that I/my sons would hit the ball farther and harder with a metal bat...but in an earlier post I made in this thread:
Believe me when I say I look in the mirror a lot and I don't always like what I see (and it seems to get worse year-by-year
)
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball
...if there's one thing I've learned through my sons' (two of them) baseball journeys its that I am often surprised at how I see things differently from another side of a fence after I experience things firsthand.
Believe me when I say I look in the mirror a lot and I don't always like what I see (and it seems to get worse year-by-year
)
an Attorney you know that is an inaccurate self serving statement.
The jury found that the bat manufacture failed to warn that the ball came off metal faster than wood bats.
Those were the old metal bats not under the new standards and the decision requires the manufacturers to place warnings on the bats. Did it outlaw their use ?
The jury found that the bat manufacture failed to warn that the ball came off metal faster than wood bats.
Those were the old metal bats not under the new standards and the decision requires the manufacturers to place warnings on the bats. Did it outlaw their use ?
I always bought my son a wood bat but he wasn't allowed to use it.
A jury made a finding of fact which is different than a conclusion of law.
The finding of fact, based on the evidence was the ball struck with a metal bat reached pitcher's head faster than human reaction time.
The jury made a conclusion of law based on that evidence and finding of fact that there was a failure to warn.
Lawsuits don't outlaw use.
They assess legal responsibilities between a plaintiff and defendant.
The finding of fact, based on the evidence was the ball struck with a metal bat reached pitcher's head faster than human reaction time.
The jury made a conclusion of law based on that evidence and finding of fact that there was a failure to warn.
Lawsuits don't outlaw use.
They assess legal responsibilities between a plaintiff and defendant.
Do you know what they relied on to reach that fact. Human reaction varies immensely between individuals.
Ya jury like the one in the OJ trial.
Ya jury like the one in the OJ trial.
I realize that the case was a civil suit seeking damages.
My point was it didn't result in laws banning the use of metal.
My point was it didn't result in laws banning the use of metal.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Do you know what they relied on to reach that fact. Human reaction varies immensely between individuals...
You mean kind of like some on this board not accepting the facts of physics? Do you just argue to argue? Seriously. SMH.
quote:Let me ask the question again:
Do bat manufacturers have the obligation to prove no increased risk from metal vs wood when they are the ones putting the bats into the stream of commerce and generating large, very large sums of money?
Are you willing to hold each (metal and wood) manufactures to this standard? An impossible one at that? It's like asking your neighbor the age old question....
"So, when did you stop beating your wife"
Just how can a wood or a metal bat manufacture "prove" there is no risk of injury? Increased over what? What is acceptable? Is three per year acceptable no matter what material is used to hit? If so, what if 4 people are severely injured next year off of wood? Do we then conclude wood is dangerous and look for another material?
You are asking manufactures prove a negative.
Standards are put in place for a reason. If it is deemed those standards are no longer acceptable (BESR and Composit bats) then standards are changed (BBCOR) and manufactures are forced to abide by them.
I am curious, do you have a problem with bat manufactures making money?
quote:You mean kind of like some on this board not accepting the facts of physics? Do you just argue to argue? Seriously. SMH
Who is not facing facts of Physics and could you tell me specifically what those facts are that they are not facing?
quote:That, in a nutshell, says it all. Mommy and Daddy want junior to hit the ball harder and out of the park more often.
Or it could be that an 8 year has a hard time swinging a 29 inch wood bat that weighs 27 Oz's.
Is not facing facts the same as ignoring them ?
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Do you ?
Oh I guess because ........ you know more than everyone else.
Julie, CD, any moderator, please ban this comment. This is awful, disgusting and awful beyond any sense of reasonableness in my opinion.
I would ask this thread be closed. The comments dropping to this is the level that, in my view is now well beyond disgusting. The comment is repugnant to anything any poster to this site needs to read or experience.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Do you ?
Oh I guess because ........ you know more than everyone else.
Julie, CD, any moderator, please ban this comment. This is awful, disgusting and awful beyond any sense of reasonableness in my opinion.
I would ask this thread be closed. The comments dropping to this is the level that, in my view is now well beyond disgusting. The comment is repugnant to anything any poster to this site needs to read or experience.
Nah, I vote for leaving it up...makes things real plain for all to see....oops, I see the rest of the comment is already gone. Oh well.
I deleted the comment. BHD, no further comments 
That was way out of line!
I suggest we keep the thread open. We still have a kid lying in a hospital and I don't believe any of us have adequately resolved what to do about it.
I suggest we keep the thread open. We still have a kid lying in a hospital and I don't believe any of us have adequately resolved what to do about it.
quote:Isn't one reason for the change in standards in 2012 to lower the "risk" or is it just altruistic by the NCAA and manufacturers?
Actually, I think they went out of their way to say it wasn't due to safety reasons and it was due to integrity of the game.
Someone correct me if I am wrong...I know you will.
quote:Originally posted by 1baseballdad:quote:Isn't one reason for the change in standards in 2012 to lower the "risk" or is it just altruistic by the NCAA and manufacturers?
Actually, I think they went out of their way to say it wasn't due to safety reasons and it was due to integrity of the game.
Someone correct me if I am wrong...I know you will.
And there you have it...
Bat-testing Regulations Modified
No more BESR, but now something called BBCOR?
From NCAA.com and The NCAA News
The NCAA will test a baseball's liveliness off the bat rather than its speed to determine whether the bat meets performance standards.
With almost all Division I programs using metal bats, the organization wants to make sure the power produced by the bat-ball contact is no greater than that produced by wood, the NCAA's Ty Halpin said Wednesday.
"The test we had previously gave us a pretty good reading on wood versus non-wood, and we still feel like that's the case, but we have found a few pieces where there seems to be some difference here for whatever reason," said Halpin, the NCAA associate director of playing rules administration.
Previously, non-wood bats had to meet a BESR or "ball exit ratio speed" performance standard based on the length and weight of the bat to produce a certain ball speed after contact. Now, the test will be a BBCOR "ball-bat coefficient of restitution," which eliminates discrepancies with different length bats and is a more direct measure of bat performance.
"Basically, it's how springy the ball is, how bouncy," he said. "What the BBCOR is measuring is how lively that collision is. It's not an exit speed; it's measuring what the bat and the ball do together."
Halpin said the change was not prompted by any concern for safety.
http://www.mycollegebaseballpl...09NCAAbatchanges.htm
quote:Halpin said the change was not prompted by any concern for safety.
I have land off the Florida coast I need to move. Send me a pm if interested.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:quote:Halpin said the change was not prompted by any concern for safety.
I have land off the Florida coast I need to move. Send me a pm if interested.
I have $3.00 left after buying bats...will that work?
quote:Halpin said the change was not prompted by any concern for safety.
Why in the world would they EVER admit safety was the reason? Seems to me that could have serious legal ramifications?
I'm going to ask this one last question or two...and then let you go on for as long as you want about all of this. Yes, you've worn me out and you mostly answer questions with questions. Its effective and about the same as my bat manufacturer friend...who by the way is indeed a "friend." So no ill will.
I'd like to know HOW the tests are being conducted. I cannot find that on the internet. I've found the same thing you've posted, but not about method of testing. Does it account for swing speed? Why are they dropping ball exit speed from their criteria? That ties directly to a pitcher's ability/timing to react. These questions are important in my opinion as to whether the added risk has been taken away or not. I have serious doubts.
There you go...the floor is all yours.
quote:I'd like to know HOW the tests are being conducted.
Me too.
How about this test. PG creates a list of the top 100 hitters in college baseball. At the end of May, these hitters are flown in to an indoor location and each hits 100 batting practice balls from a machine. Each ball is radar-gunned and measured for distance. At the end of the college summer season (after the hitters have adjusted to wood) they are all flown to the same indoor location and the same experiment is conducted with wood. Is there a problem with my experiment?
quote:I'd like to know HOW the tests are being conducted. I cannot find that on the internet. I've found the same thing you've posted, but not about method of testing. Does it account for swing speed? Why are they dropping ball exit speed from their criteria? That ties directly to a pitcher's ability/timing to react. These questions are important in my opinion as to whether the added risk has been taken away or not. I have serious doubts.
I thought I ran across it at some point in the discussion so if I find it again, I will post it.
Honestly, I am not trying to be contrarian or argumentative. I am just trying to grasp all the facts (at least as much as they can be grasped by me in a forum like this) and then formulate my opinion. Like I said, it's just the way my brain ticks. You guys have made me think about this from many different angles and that is a good thing.
You should see the car salesman after I am done buying a car. Lets just say I do my due diligence when researching a vehicle I am interested in buying.
Here you go.
NCAA Baseball Certification Protocols
It should all be in here.
Bat-Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) Protocol (Effective 1/1/2011)
This is the composit killer than no one has discussed.
Accelerated Break-In (ABI) Protocol
Standards used to test...
http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2219.htm
NCAA Baseball Certification Protocols
It should all be in here.
Bat-Ball Coefficient of Restitution (BBCOR) Protocol (Effective 1/1/2011)
This is the composit killer than no one has discussed.
Accelerated Break-In (ABI) Protocol
Standards used to test...
http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2219.htm
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
I'd like to know HOW the tests are being conducted. I cannot find that on the internet. I've found the same thing you've posted, but not about method of testing. Does it account for swing speed? Why are they dropping ball exit speed from their criteria? That ties directly to a pitcher's ability/timing to react. These questions are important in my opinion as to whether the added risk has been taken away or not. I have serious doubts.
justbaseball,
The testing is exactly the same as was done with the BESR test. Both BESR and BBCOR are calculated values which are indirectly related to ball exit speed. A bat manufacturer can meet either spec by varying length, weight, MOI, and trampoline effect. With BESR, there is a "corner" of the graph (MOI just above the minimum, large trampoline effect to make up for the lower effective mass of the bat) which allows much higher ball speeds. The BBCOR spec removes the corner, and takes away one way that a metal bat of a particular design could offer high batted ball speeds.
As I have now posted several times, the BBCOR criterion is better than BESR, but it in no way makes a metal bats perform like wood when it is swung by the strongest hitters. Even with BBCOR certification, strong hitters will hit the ball harder with metal bats.
Also, remember BESR is Ball Exit Speed Ratio, and is not a direct measure of the batted ball speed. ASA does use BBS as a measurement, and it may be better for softball. But the NCAA has never used batted ball speed, and therefore isn't dropping it.
quote:Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
You should see the car salesman after I am done buying a car. Lets just say I do my due diligence when researching a vehicle I am interested in buying.
A car dealer purchases used cars at an auction. If it is a captive bank auction, i.e the financial arm of the manufacturer, they usually get a unit with a $3000 swing. For example, a $10,000 wholesale price. That unit also can receive certified incentives for maybe another $1000. The dealer also "packs" the car an additional $1000 of cost protection. They will book that unit at $11,000 and retail it for $15,000.
After you do your research, you can walk away happy paying $12,000 for that car, you did your due diligence and got $3000 off the dealers price.
The dealer was in the car for $9000 and made $3000 off of you, and that is a healthy profit??
Wonder what the used car salemen say after you leave?
Metal bats are hollow, wood bats are solid. Case closed!!
By the way, metal and composite heads on a driver with lightweight shafts produce longer drives and more ball speed off the face than the old wooden clubs once used.
And yes, the PGA has regulated them also, but they still outperform wood by a whole lot.
Weighing all the data I think that in order to satisfy the most important issue, safety, from both the metal and wood present dangers, bat manufactures need to prove that the testing satisfies the exit testing comparable to wood, and then include that pitchers are required to wear head protection.
That would settle the safety issues as a whole once and for all. Why do it half-a$$ed, safety is the reason we are arguing, correct? To hide behind the safety issue because of the dislike for metal is weak. If you want to address safety.......address the whole issue, metal and wood. If everyone is so concerned about pitchers being hit by line drives and have data to prove it, then address the complete issue
That would settle the safety issues as a whole once and for all. Why do it half-a$$ed, safety is the reason we are arguing, correct? To hide behind the safety issue because of the dislike for metal is weak. If you want to address safety.......address the whole issue, metal and wood. If everyone is so concerned about pitchers being hit by line drives and have data to prove it, then address the complete issue
quote:Wonder what the used car salemen say after you leave?
Honestly, I could care less what he thinks. I don't buy used cars. I buy new cars and by the time I go in to buy them, I know far more about them the the salesman.
BTW, you sound like someone else in the news telling everyone to sit down and shut up because there is no more debate in global warming...
Well, sorry. There is MUCH more debate whether you want to deal with it or not. You seem more interested in digging someone than discussing the issues. You no more read the links I posted than you are interested in dealing with anything other than sticking your chest out and thumping it and demanding everyone bow to your supperior knowledge.
Well, thump away...I will continue to educate myself while you do what ever it is you do.
I made an honest attempt to add to the discussion and do it in a civil manner. Too bad you can't say the same.
Have a great day.
This is what I was referring to at the beginning of the thread. We all get riled up about safety and then the debate begins and then the debate drags on and on. Metal is dangerous, wood is dangerous.... Both are dangerous - I think we all really know metal is a bit more dangerous....
What I dont understand is why we continue this debate.
Metal hits are easier to come by and we all want to make our Johnny feel good about himself.
What we should be doing is making our Johnny an actual good batter.
The debate needs to change away from the safety issue and move on to the training correctly issue.
What I dont understand is why we continue this debate.
Metal hits are easier to come by and we all want to make our Johnny feel good about himself.
What we should be doing is making our Johnny an actual good batter.
The debate needs to change away from the safety issue and move on to the training correctly issue.
One last thing 30bombs. If you are going to accuse someone of being a troll, perhaps you should understand what the term means before tossing it around when you yourself only have 36 posts here.
Let me help you out.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Now, feel free to point out where I have done that. In fact, feel free to see my post in the thread that was started about posting anecdotal evidence of seeing pitchers injured by metal bats.
Funny, I was warned that this would end this way and I thought if I was thoughtful enough with my discussion, no way would this happen.
I guess I will just chalk it up to another learning experience.
Let me help you out.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Now, feel free to point out where I have done that. In fact, feel free to see my post in the thread that was started about posting anecdotal evidence of seeing pitchers injured by metal bats.
Funny, I was warned that this would end this way and I thought if I was thoughtful enough with my discussion, no way would this happen.
I guess I will just chalk it up to another learning experience.
Hannibal Lecture has a slightly used face mask for sale on ebay.
The way I see it the debate concerning wood/metal has 3 components.
1. Safety (improved)
2. Integrity (of the game)
3. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Wood (composite, bamboo etc) goes 3 for 3. An elegant, cost effective solution to a problem made way too complex by big business.
1. Safety (improved)
2. Integrity (of the game)
3. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Wood (composite, bamboo etc) goes 3 for 3. An elegant, cost effective solution to a problem made way too complex by big business.
A troll is someone who keeps provoking discussion to bait conversation even though he knows he is defeated.
By the way, they still made several thousands after your due diligence...trust me
Metal bats hit balls harder and faster than wood. If you dispute that, then take your OCD elsewhere
By the way, they still made several thousands after your due diligence...trust me
Metal bats hit balls harder and faster than wood. If you dispute that, then take your OCD elsewhere
quote:Originally posted by 30bombs:
A troll is someone who keeps provoking discussion to bait conversation even though he knows he is defeated.
Defeated by who? Those on this site? While many may have some marbles left, there is not consensus as a group, or consensus at what levels wood only would affect, nor do we represent the entire baseball community?
So we come to another junction in perspective.
This is round 2 on this website and the same result has happened. Some folks just can't open their minds to facts.
Enjoy your hobby. Nothing's changed on this website and it will run its course eventually.
By the way, wood is better, metal is a joke, minor league american players play for peanuts while more is being spent on Central, Southern, and Island players by MLB in their quest for a meaningless Title.
In the grand scheme, who cares, it is only a game.
This is round 2 on this website and the same result has happened. Some folks just can't open their minds to facts.
Enjoy your hobby. Nothing's changed on this website and it will run its course eventually.
By the way, wood is better, metal is a joke, minor league american players play for peanuts while more is being spent on Central, Southern, and Island players by MLB in their quest for a meaningless Title.
In the grand scheme, who cares, it is only a game.
Here is my 2 cents,
Lets ask the kids, I do not buy the “they are just minors and do not know argument”. I ask kids their opinions many times and get great answers that I use to coach my teams with. Most of the time they are very direct and honest.
Simply put design a metal bat that simulates wood period, end of story and that can save money on breakage. Wow, seems like that’s what I used back in high school in the late 70’s. We can put a man on the moon and we cannot design a metal bat like wood????
My son pitches and I am scared to death of him getting hit in face. Have I gone out and bought a mask or helmet for him not yet. Am I rolling the dice, you bet. Am I negligent, is this a form of child abuse?? Would he wear the mask, no, not unless it was mandated.
If go to wood, and we want to see lots of home runs, doubles, triples etc. just move the fences in for all amateur baseball. Why if little league went to wood they would not have had to move the fences back a few years ago. How simple.
IMO, the game needs to be fun for the kids, and how do they have fun, IMO its hitting a baseball hard or a homerun, double, triple etc. Just ask the kids, because at the end of the day, to me, they are the ones playing now , not removed from the game, and therefore they are really the experts here. Their opinion should count.
One last thought, I know there are tons of purists out there on the game of baseball. But I really do not get the wood bat argument for evaluating players for the scouts or for PG.
I have been to a few of these events and it seems yes one may get a better feel for a hitter but how about for a fielder??? There seems to be way less tough plays to be made and therefore way less opportunities to evaluate a kids defense. The game is about offense and defense. This means we have to take them to that many more expensive events just to get them the touches in hopes to be evaluated.
All that said, I vote for metal that is designed to be like wood. If that can not really be attained then wood it is, with the fences moved in for the kids to have fun.
Lets ask the kids, I do not buy the “they are just minors and do not know argument”. I ask kids their opinions many times and get great answers that I use to coach my teams with. Most of the time they are very direct and honest.
Simply put design a metal bat that simulates wood period, end of story and that can save money on breakage. Wow, seems like that’s what I used back in high school in the late 70’s. We can put a man on the moon and we cannot design a metal bat like wood????
My son pitches and I am scared to death of him getting hit in face. Have I gone out and bought a mask or helmet for him not yet. Am I rolling the dice, you bet. Am I negligent, is this a form of child abuse?? Would he wear the mask, no, not unless it was mandated.
If go to wood, and we want to see lots of home runs, doubles, triples etc. just move the fences in for all amateur baseball. Why if little league went to wood they would not have had to move the fences back a few years ago. How simple.
IMO, the game needs to be fun for the kids, and how do they have fun, IMO its hitting a baseball hard or a homerun, double, triple etc. Just ask the kids, because at the end of the day, to me, they are the ones playing now , not removed from the game, and therefore they are really the experts here. Their opinion should count.
One last thought, I know there are tons of purists out there on the game of baseball. But I really do not get the wood bat argument for evaluating players for the scouts or for PG.
I have been to a few of these events and it seems yes one may get a better feel for a hitter but how about for a fielder??? There seems to be way less tough plays to be made and therefore way less opportunities to evaluate a kids defense. The game is about offense and defense. This means we have to take them to that many more expensive events just to get them the touches in hopes to be evaluated.
All that said, I vote for metal that is designed to be like wood. If that can not really be attained then wood it is, with the fences moved in for the kids to have fun.
http://vucommodores.blogspot.c...williams-update.html
Article xray and video of line drive hitting Vandie pitcher Corey Williams. Jimmy posted it in the thread about this pitcher has it.
(graphic)
Article xray and video of line drive hitting Vandie pitcher Corey Williams. Jimmy posted it in the thread about this pitcher has it.
(graphic)
Write your congress person.
http://www.fanhouse.com/news/m...y-line-drive/422710/
"He was bleeding quite a bit," Giants manager Bruce Bochy said. "That ball was smoked. He didn't have a chance."
_____
X-rays show Hirsh pitched with broken leg vs. Brewers
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2966509
______
Rockies' Embree out for season with broken leg
DENVER (AP) — Colorado Rockies left-hander Alan Embree is out for the season after a line drive fractured his right tibia on Friday night.
Embree will have surgery Saturday.
"There will be some type of compression screw put in there," Rockies manager Jim Tracy said.
Atlanta's Martin Prado hit a 3-2 fastball from Embree back up the middle in the seventh inning Friday night. The ball ricocheted off Embree's right shin to third baseman Ian Stewart.
"It sounded awful," Rockies catcher Chris Iannetta said. "I couldn't even track the ball it was hit so hard. It sounded really bad."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...-embree-injury_N.htm
"He was bleeding quite a bit," Giants manager Bruce Bochy said. "That ball was smoked. He didn't have a chance."
_____
X-rays show Hirsh pitched with broken leg vs. Brewers
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2966509
______
Rockies' Embree out for season with broken leg
DENVER (AP) — Colorado Rockies left-hander Alan Embree is out for the season after a line drive fractured his right tibia on Friday night.
Embree will have surgery Saturday.
"There will be some type of compression screw put in there," Rockies manager Jim Tracy said.
Atlanta's Martin Prado hit a 3-2 fastball from Embree back up the middle in the seventh inning Friday night. The ball ricocheted off Embree's right shin to third baseman Ian Stewart.
"It sounded awful," Rockies catcher Chris Iannetta said. "I couldn't even track the ball it was hit so hard. It sounded really bad."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...-embree-injury_N.htm