Johns Hopkins going all online for fall

Looks like the Washington Post already has picked up the story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...ot-return-baltimore/ 

I'm so sorry.  What a bummer.  I guess the only good thing about being a freshman is that he doesn't really know yet what he's missing. 

Hey Chico, sorry to hear about that sudden change. How do you think this will affect the baseball team given that fall practices/tryouts/evals won't take place as usual?

It seems there is a kid who is transferring from Duke to Hopkins as a grad student based on the D1 transfer tracker. How many seniors at Hopkins are returning for a 5th year to play baseball? Assuming that some semblance of normality returns by winter/spring and spring baseball occurs, won't Coach Babb have to find a quick way to make cuts if he starts with a 60+ man team that shows up for first day of practice second semester?

I remember how cool it was to be a freshman and away at college. These were big moments ... orientation cookout, first time walking across campus as a student thinking I was grown up, first classes, etc.  I feel sorry for kids missing out on this.

@Zoom 2020 posted:

Hey Chico, sorry to hear about that sudden change. How do you think this will affect the baseball team given that fall practices/tryouts/evals won't take place as usual?

It seems there is a kid who is transferring from Duke to Hopkins as a grad student based on the D1 transfer tracker. How many seniors at Hopkins are returning for a 5th year to play baseball? Assuming that some semblance of normality returns by winter/spring and spring baseball occurs, won't Coach Babb have to find a quick way to make cuts if he starts with a 60+ man team that shows up for first day of practice second semester?

 

I have heard about a couple of former D1 players hoping to play while in grad programs at Hopkins in 2021, but I don't have any details (haven't asked for any--the boy wants to attend JHU whether he's a starter or gets cut, so initial roster size is what it is).  Winning a spot may be tougher than in most years, but you always are going to have play your way onto the team.

I'm sure more Hopkins students (athletes and non-athletes) are considering deferring now that fall is online-only.  My son is going to think about it, too, but it's hard to plan a very interesting gap year with travel and work options so limited. 

The late notice is a pain.  But I give Hopkins credit for doing what they decided was right, rather than just following through with the plan they announced in June.

Good point on deferring/gaps.   Someone just sent me this article, behind a paywall, on % of class deferring at elite universities.   If my kid's college switch last minute I will be very disappointed.  Their schools are in MA, covid plans are all laid out and mostly reasonable,  and that state has been relatively stable. Moving son into dorm in 13 days and 6 hours - and daughter one week later.  Let's GO!!!

Imagine having a 2021 kid.  What an absolute disaster for these kids not only from a baseball roster standpoint but if Harvard had 20% kids defer a year what will 2021 acceptance look like?  2% acceptance rates?   

https://www.bostonglobe.com/20...ng-their-first-year/

@Chico Escuela posted:

I have heard about a couple of former D1 players hoping to play while in grad programs at Hopkins in 2021, but I don't have any details

.

One of these players is a former teammate of RipkenFanSon. I am sure he is bummed about the "all on line" for fall.

Today I take my younger son off to college. He says one of his classes is all virtual. The professor is over 70 years old and has some precondition. The prof sent students a notice for this format in the event they want to reconsider. My son was ok with it as it's a lower level class and prof is well known..good reviews. He was visiting a friend last night. The mom asks.. how many are at your school? Son says, over 8,000.  Friend's mom replies.. "See you in 2 weeks."

@Ripken Fan posted:

One of these players is a former teammate of RipkenFanSon. I am sure he is bummed about the "all on line" for fall.

Today I take my younger son off to college. He says one of his classes is all virtual. The professor is over 70 years old and has some precondition. The prof sent students a notice for this format in the event they want to reconsider. My son was ok with it as it's a lower level class and prof is well known..good reviews. He was visiting a friend last night. The mom asks.. how many are at your school? Son says, over 8,000.  Friend's mom replies.. "See you in 2 weeks."

These schools better be prepared for 3-5% of incoming students testing + for Covid, which is going to happen, and then they better have the intestinal fortitude to stick with their plans when kids do get Covid which will happen.   They have planned for it, it's going to happen but I worry they will cave.  There was a big effort to try to get MLB to cave when the Marlins got it but they stuck to their plan.    Administrators are stuck in a serious pickle..... they will want to take the safe route and send all home even tho they have the plans but they need to consider the schools financially hit too.   That comment may make some people on this board uncomfortable but its a reality.  They send my kids home I will want tuition discounts too - the push this time for discounts will be huge in my opinion.   

Good luck getting your kids off to school, Gunner. 

I agree it's going to be a mess.  And I think it will remain be a mess for a few years as the backlogs work their way out.  If I were a college president, I'd be working on some attractive quasi-gap year programs to offer the next few entering classes (and maybe the current crop of freshmen and sophomores, too).  You could charge something for the year if you offered some credits.  Students could apply, but agree to enter the following year.  If you managed it right, you could smooth the demographic disruption a bit.  (For schools that don't get far more applicants than they could possibly admit, that option probably won't work...)

I am really torn about what to suggest to my son.  I'm a big fan of gap years, but finding worthwhile things to do for the next 12 months would be a real challenge.  I think working a low-skill, low-wage job is great experience, but probably not for a full 12 months (at least not while living at home).  And it's unclear if there will be baseball this spring--either way he could end up off the field for more than a year, except for some thrown-together games earlier this summer.

My oldest kid's college still plans to have students on campus.  She will be a junior and insists she will continue even if things go fully online.  The next few months are going to be interesting. 

Nobody in my family has been sick or lost their jobs, so we really can't complain (but still do, of course).

@Chico Escuela posted:

Good luck getting your kids off to school, Gunner. 

I agree it's going to be a mess.  And I think it will remain be a mess for a few years as the backlogs work their way out.  If I were a college president, I'd be working on some attractive quasi-gap year programs to offer the next few entering classes (and maybe the current crop of freshmen and sophomores, too).  You could charge something for the year if you offered some credits.  Students could apply, but agree to enter the following year.  If you managed it right, you could smooth the demographic disruption a bit.  (For schools that don't get far more applicants than they could possibly admit, that option probably won't work...)

I am really torn about what to suggest to my son.  I'm a big fan of gap years, but finding worthwhile things to do for the next 12 months would be a real challenge.  I think working a low-skill, low-wage job is great experience, but probably not for a full 12 months (at least not while living at home).  And it's unclear if there will be baseball this spring--either way he could end up off the field for more than a year, except for some thrown-together games earlier this summer.

My oldest kid's college still plans to have students on campus.  She will be a junior and insists she will continue even if things go fully online.  The next few months are going to be interesting. 

Nobody in my family has been sick or lost their jobs, so we really can't complain (but still do, of course).

I hadn't thought about quasi gap year programs - that's an excellent idea if they can pull that off.

I am a glass is always full guy so here goes on Spring Baseball.  It will happen.   I am confident that there will be a vaccine in Oct timeframe.  Get first batches to those in need first but to the masses in early 2021.  I am also a believer in real T Cell immunity, 40-50% could be immune to Covid due to past exposure to coronavirus.  I was happy to hear Fauci talk about this in testimony last week.  With Gottlieb's estimate that 10-12x the people who test positive have had this (and thus have the B cell antibodies) areas are hitting herd immunity of sorts.  Yes there could be mini breakouts in these areas but you can manage that. I see multiple ways we start to kill this off by year-end or early next year.  Plus its getting less deadly and we know better how to treat.     I might have these rosy views because I live in the earlies hard hit areas and we've been on the serious downslope for basically 3 months.   

@Ripken Fan posted:

Today I take my younger son off to college. He says one of his classes is all virtual. The professor is over 70 years old and has some precondition. The prof sent students a notice for this format in the event they want to reconsider. My son was ok with it as it's a lower level class and prof is well known..good reviews. He was visiting a friend last night. The mom asks.. how many are at your school? Son says, over 8,000.  Friend's mom replies.. "See you in 2 weeks."

If only one of your son's classes is online, he is very fortunate.  My daughter will be living on campus, but she has one "hybrid" class (aka, the worst of both worlds--virus exposure plus online learning) and otherwise will be taking a full course load via laptop.  My son's JHU schedule had one 5-hour weekly lab, but everything else (including the class attached to the lab) were going to be online. 

I am determined not to open the COVID can of worms in this thread.  But as for the "see you in 2 weeks" comment:  Most parents I know seem to expect their college students home long before Thanksgiving.  Many college kids I talk with feel much the same way, but they (understandably) want whatever shot at normalcy they can get.  We'll all know more in a month or two... 

Places like IMG must be killing it for this upcoming year. I've heard a few travel coaches talk about putting together some spring events if the HS season isn't played.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

Good point on deferring/gaps.   Someone just sent me this article, behind a paywall, on % of class deferring at elite universities.   If my kid's college switch last minute I will be very disappointed.  Their schools are in MA, covid plans are all laid out and mostly reasonable,  and that state has been relatively stable. Moving son into dorm in 13 days and 6 hours - and daughter one week later.  Let's GO!!!

Imagine having a 2021 kid.  What an absolute disaster for these kids not only from a baseball roster standpoint but if Harvard had 20% kids defer a year what will 2021 acceptance look like?  2% acceptance rates?   

https://www.bostonglobe.com/20...ng-their-first-year/

A friend's son who is a rising freshman at Tufts decided to take a gap year rather than attend remotely.  Apparently the school told him that he might have to wait for two years.

@K9 posted:

A friend's son who is a rising freshman at Tufts decided to take a gap year rather than attend remotely.  Apparently the school told him that he might have to wait for two years.

My son's good friend, a rising freshman, is going to Tufts to pitch.  I am very good friends with his mom.  She has been saying that Tufts has very much discouraged gap years while paying lip service to do what is right for you.   I bet Tufts's issue with your friend's son situation is that Tuft's freshman don't register for classes until they arrive at school so they don't know yet if the son is all online or some type of hybrid. So in this case I guess the son and parents are making the personal choice of not sending son to school due to Covid.  Parents were forced to make the deferral call i think in early June which is too early given the fast moving covid situation   Parents should have this right in my opinion right up to the start of school and Tufts should give the gap year but the late decision creates an issue for Tufts too.  They could have filled that seat in June.   It just seems wrong but for Tufts and parents there are no easy choices.

@Chico Escuela posted:

I have heard about a couple of former D1 players hoping to play while in grad programs at Hopkins in 2021, but I don't have any details (haven't asked for any--the boy wants to attend JHU whether he's a starter or gets cut, so initial roster size is what it is).  Winning a spot may be tougher than in most years, but you always are going to have play your way onto the team.

I'm sure more Hopkins students (athletes and non-athletes) are considering deferring now that fall is online-only.  My son is going to think about it, too, but it's hard to plan a very interesting gap year with travel and work options so limited. 

The late notice is a pain.  But I give Hopkins credit for doing what they decided was right, rather than just following through with the plan they announced in June.

Sorry for you and your son, but I think you're being too kind in giving JHU credit.  My take is they, and other schools, delayed so long intentionally, so families have very little choice to look elsewhere.

For those considering gap year options, AmeriCorps may be a good option to do something meaningful during that time. They have  service opportunities available with such organizations as Habitat for Humanity, the Corps Network, City Year, Red Cross, and many others (some may be virtual) and kids can earn money for college and gain valuable professional experience: https://www.nationalservice.go...orps/join-americorps

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I worked on AmeriCorps programs for nine years. 

@CTbballDad posted:

Sorry for you and your son, but I think you're being too kind in giving JHU credit.  My take is they, and other schools, delayed so long intentionally, so families have very little choice to look elsewhere.

My daughter’s college billed for the semester right on time, including charges for full room and board that they said they would adjust later for those who chose less expensive options (housing decisions were delayed and still pending at the time). Hopkins has sent no bills yet, offered a tuition discount, and (I think) is allowing students to choose a gap year now long after the deadline to make that decision. IMO, almost nothing about deciding August 6 to go all-remote benefits JHU, while quite a bit hurts it. Their decision may prove right or wrong, but I think  it’s hard to argue they were just trying to maximize revenue.  I do wish they had made this call earlier.  But again, that suggests to me that they took the tough decision.  I’m not a happy camper, but I can’t really fault Hopkins. 

Our local D3 has put together what I think is a pretty good fall program. They are planning for cases, having classes on weekends and holidays to keep kids on campus and hopefully out of the bars. Athletes start move in Monday and administrators are half excited to finally put their planning into action, half terrified that it won't work.

My daughter is slated to go to Oregon to do an internship that involves rotations in hospitals, care facilities, schools. I'm trying to get her to hold off on signing a lease because i'm not sure those facilities will let her in.

Meanwhile, my son's schedule called for three of his five classes to be online anyway. His advisor always scheduled him that way to be as flexible as possible for travel and practice schedules. But his school is planning to open fully and planning on full fall baseball.

Should be an interesting exercise to see which of these plans work out.

What a tumultuous time for so many.  JHU was slated to have 7-9 grad and transfer students; will they still go?  Numerous D1 transfers from Duke, several Ivies and more.  Tough decisions for everyone to go, defer, transfer elsewhere, find employment, deal with all online classes, stay safe, stay home or go anyway to campuses, find safe places to workout/play, hang 'em up and so much more.       

@RJM posted:

I remember how cool it was to be a freshman and away at college. These were big moments ... orientation cookout, first time walking across campus as a student thinking I was grown up, first classes, etc.  I feel sorry for kids missing out on this.

😢

@CTbballDad posted:

Sorry for you and your son, but I think you're being too kind in giving JHU credit.  My take is they, and other schools, delayed so long intentionally, so families have very little choice to look elsewhere.

This ^^^

My 2020 son has a summer teammate who is an incoming freshman at JH. Told my son him and some other incoming were taking a gap year.

Ok Chico...... Holy Cross just pulled the bait and switch too.   My daughter literally just picked her dorm room on Thursday, they've had my money since early July and an email just came saying no kids on campus.   I need to use the 24 hour rule but I am on tilt.....   I am going to be asking for tuition at the same rates as on line summer classes - which will be a 50% reduction.   So I will not be an empty nester in a few weeks.   Holy Cross totally pulled the switch......

Waiting for a NESCAC school to take this leap of online for the fall.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

Ok Chico...... Holy Cross just pulled the bait and switch too.   My daughter literally just picked her dorm room on Thursday, they've had my money since early July and an email just came saying on kids on campus.   I need to use the 24 hour rule but I am on tilt.....   I am going to be asking for tuition at the same rates as on line summer classes - which will be a 50% reduction.   So I will not be an empty nester in a few weeks.   Holy Cross totally pulled the switch......

Princeton same deal.  Reversed to on-line only this weekend.  Why now?  What changed?  If anything the conditions in NJ improved month over month over the Summer.  

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

Ok Chico...... Holy Cross just pulled the bait and switch too.   My daughter literally just picked her dorm room on Thursday, they've had my money since early July and an email just came saying on kids on campus.   I need to use the 24 hour rule but I am on tilt.....   I am going to be asking for tuition at the same rates as on line summer classes - which will be a 50% reduction.   So I will not be an empty nester in a few weeks.   Holy Cross totally pulled the switch......

I'm sorry for you and your daughter, Gunner.   

At this point, my son is leaning toward taking a gap year.  He only has a few more days to decide. 

I'm not sure what he should do.  No question that freshman-year-from-home is going to be substandard (even at a 10% tuition discount).  On the other hand, in 2020-21 a record number of college students taking time off is going to meet with a record low number of employment and internship opportunities (plus essentially no travel options).  I think the next 12 months will largely be a lost year if my son doesn't start college.  But maybe that price is worth it in hopes of a more normal 2021-22 freshman year?

For now, my daughter's school is still planning to have students back on campus in 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, Forbes says 20% of Harvard freshmen are deferring admission for a year,  and only 25% are opting to live on campus:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/b...ferred/#6c40eac914a9

@Chico Escuela posted:

I'm sorry for you and your daughter, Gunner.   

At this point, my son is leaning toward taking a gap year.  He only has a few more days to decide. 

I'm not sure what he should do.  No question that freshman-year-from-home is going to be substandard (even at a 10% tuition discount).  On the other hand, in 2020-21 a record number of college students taking time off is going to meet with a record low number of employment and internship opportunities (plus essentially no travel options).  I think the next 12 months will largely be a lost year if my son doesn't start college.  But maybe that price is worth it in hopes of a more normal 2021-22 freshman year?

For now, my daughter's school is still planning to have students back on campus in 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, Forbes says 20% of Harvard freshmen are deferring admission for a year,  and only 25% are opting to live on campus:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/b...ferred/#6c40eac914a9

August 20th, 1pm.... that's my son's move in date.   I hope that holds up.....  I did see/post the Forbes article too.   Neither of mine will take a gap year but I am so frustrated with Holy Cross that I am talking to my daughter about transferring..

@Gov posted:

Waiting for a NESCAC school to take this leap of online for the fall.

With UMass-Amherst going all-online, one obvious candidate comes to mind... 

And for schools that already are only inviting part of the student body back, the decision might be easier.  Hopkins was inviting all students on campus.

@Wechson posted:

Princeton same deal.  Reversed to on-line only this weekend.  Why now?  What changed?  If anything the conditions in NJ improved month over month over the Summer.  

Exactly.  What has changed?  Things have gotten better up here.  Now ask yourself what will change by January.   Three things can change.  

1. Vaccine - prob will be one but not for wide disty to students and healthy teachers (or college employees)

2. Election - will take the heat down a few notches for sure

3.  Herd Immunity - prob too quick for that but I think we are close (I've posted why before)

The schools making these decisions on the fall will have to make the same decisions in the spring unless I am missing something.  It's a full year on-line at full rates?  I don't know.   

The tough decision for these schools is to stick with their plans, trust them, and understand the actual risks of students on campus.  The easy decision is just to go online and take financial hits.  They have the plans, they game theoried but perhaps the game theory was maximizing enrollment and dough in door before pulling rug out of on campus.  Well played Holy Cross.  Well Played.

@Chico Escuela posted:

I'm sorry for you and your daughter, Gunner.   

At this point, my son is leaning toward taking a gap year.  He only has a few more days to decide. 

I'm not sure what he should do.  No question that freshman-year-from-home is going to be substandard (even at a 10% tuition discount).  On the other hand, in 2020-21 a record number of college students taking time off is going to meet with a record low number of employment and internship opportunities (plus essentially no travel options).  I think the next 12 months will largely be a lost year if my son doesn't start college.  But maybe that price is worth it in hopes of a more normal 2021-22 freshman year?

For now, my daughter's school is still planning to have students back on campus in 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, Forbes says 20% of Harvard freshmen are deferring admission for a year,  and only 25% are opting to live on campus:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/b...ferred/#6c40eac914a9

That's the dilemma, what attractive or productive things can a kid do by taking a gap year vs taking online courses and beginning college?

All the usual pros of taking a gap year would seem to be extremely limited during Covid. Meaningful jobs/internships, travel, foreign language immersion abroad, service trips, etc. are just as limited as going to college in person. If the kid is just going to stay at home and watch movies or play video games all day, seems that taking online college courses would be a better option to maintain academic progress and stay sharp with learning. Perhaps kid could spend a gap year training athletically to get better prepared for whenever sports resume, but that should also be doable while taking college courses online. If spring sports in 2021 also get cancelled, the athletes would still preserve 4 years of sports eligibility whether they are taking online courses or a gap year but at least they would be further ahead in academic progression.

@Zoom 2020 posted:

That's the dilemma, what attractive or productive things can a kid do by taking a gap year vs taking online courses and beginning college?

All the usual pros of taking a gap year would seem to be extremely limited during Covid. Meaningful jobs/internships, travel, foreign language immersion abroad, service trips, etc. are just as limited as going to college in person. If the kid is just going to stay at home and watch movies or play video games all day, seems that taking online college courses would be a better option to maintain academic progress and stay sharp with learning. Perhaps kid could spend a gap year training athletically to get better prepared for whenever sports resume, but that should also be doable while taking college courses online. If spring sports in 2021 also get cancelled, the athletes would still preserve 4 years of sports eligibility whether they are taking online courses or a gap year but at least they would be further ahead in academic progression.

All true. But I'm paying private college tuition (two of them, actually) with no financial aid.  If my son uses a year of college online, he's not getting a 5th on my dime.  There is the possibility of grad school, of course.  I think my son's view is that he gets 4 years for college and he doesn't want to spend one of them online.  But yeah, a year of playing video games and lifting weights is, as we used to say in the consulting biz, sub-optimal.

I'm hoping things loosen up some in the new year, so that maybe some travel, etc. becomes possible then.  Which is not to say I'm convinced a gap year is a good idea in the current climate.

Also in the mix:  My son plans on a Chemistry major and was supposed to be taking a 5-hour intensive lab this fall.  The prof teaching that lab emailed previously (before JHU went online-only) to make sure students knew it was meeting in-person, because he felt it could not be taught properly online.  Online science labs aren't terrible, but I wonder if they really provide the foundation necessary for extended further study.      

This is all so disappointing and ridiculous.  Presumably the rationale is that they have now realized that student-aged people are not going to behave, no matter how many pledges you make them sign, and no matter how many tests you have.  Anyone could have told them that, back in May.  I honestly can't see how big schools can open, but the smaller ones decide to close.  It should be the other way round (although I guess we'll see what happens with the big schools).  My son's school announced closing relatively early, and he has been depressed all summer - so maybe this way is better, a short, sharp shock.  We have also gone round and round on a gap semester, at least, with nothing available to do. 

Ironic that every year, there are questions on here about whether a baseball player should take a gap year to become bigger and stronger for college recruiting...

@Chico Escuela posted:

All true. But I'm paying private college tuition (two of them, actually) with no financial aid.  If my son uses a year of college online, he's not getting a 5th on my dime.  There is the possibility of grad school, of course.  I think my son's view is that he gets 4 years for college and he doesn't want to spend one of them online.  But yeah, a year of playing video games and lifting weights is, as we used to say in the consulting biz, sub-optimal.

I'm hoping things loosen up some in the new year, so that maybe some travel, etc. becomes possible then.  Which is not to say I'm convinced a gap year is a good idea in the current climate.

Also in the mix:  My son plans on a Chemistry major and was supposed to be taking a 5-hour intensive lab this fall.  The prof teaching that lab emailed previously (before JHU went online-only) to make sure students knew it was meeting in-person, because he felt it could not be taught properly online.  Online science labs aren't terrible, but I wonder if they really provide the foundation necessary for extended further study.      

Although it's understandable not wanting to pay for a 5th year of college, taking a gap year entails an opportunity cost that should be considered in the overall economic calculus. This opportunity cost includes not only the direct costs associated with kid staying at home (food, personal expenses) this year but also the future income that would be lost by graduating one year later. 

Especially if grad school is in the cards, probably better to get started with college now than a year later.

Today's Inside Higher Education has some interesting survey data.  E.g., forty percent of incoming freshmen say they are likely or highly likely not to attend their planned 4-year college this fall.  (I assume the actual number of deferrals won't be nearly that high.  But there are going to be a lot of them.)  Just 7% of students trust their fellow students to follow COVID safety protocols. Some other interesting findings, too --   https://www.insidehighered.com...ny-four-year-college

My son at Hopkins is not happy and the letter from the coach didn't help.  Here's hoping it opens back up in the Spring, but it's going to be a mess.  

@whoknewwhatwhen posted:

My son at Hopkins is not happy and the letter from the coach didn't help.  Here's hoping it opens back up in the Spring, but it's going to be a mess.  

Out of curiosity, what the coach say in his letter about sports/academics this year?

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

August 20th, 1pm.... that's my son's move in date.   I hope that holds up.....  I did see/post the Forbes article too.   Neither of mine will take a gap year but I am so frustrated with Holy Cross that I am talking to my daughter about transferring..

Wish my son took me up on my suggestion several weeks ago.  Guess he’ll never learn that dad is always right.

@Zoom 2020 posted:

Out of curiosity, what the coach say in his letter about sports/academics this year?

Encouraged them to consider deferring/LOA.

The northern states are in good shape currently but so many students coming from states with higher rates.  Local school just uncovered positive cases from out of state kids who just moved in, which essentially doubled our state's daily case rate. If only we could get a handle on this nationally.

*Edited to add that I agree it's totally wrong to have to pay full price for online experience vs in person and the schools should pass on campus ops savingsto their students or dip into their rainy day funds.