JV player and opportunities

Nobody here has an answer for you.  Have your son respectfully go to the varsity head coach and ask what he has to do to earn more playing time.  Not you - your son needs to ask this.

My suggestion would be to have your son talk to the coach.  He should ask him what he needs to work on to gain V playing time.  Different coaches approach things differently and your not going to get much of an answer on here.  Some coaches like speed over power.  Some like the tall (over 6') guys.  Others like to use stats.  Unless you know what criteria your coaching staff uses to determine their lineup your going to be banging your head against the wall trying to figure it out.

Looks like coach and I were typing up the response to you at the same time.  You will probably get the same advice from another 10 or so folks.

That is what he is going to do later after the season starts.  What was a real slap in the face was the fact that one of his classmates didn't play last year and another hasn't play in High School at all and has already dressed Varsity, yeah sat the bench but still dressed.

I stated that they dressed Varsity mainly because at this age egos get inflated.  And a few of the players would throw that in my sons face every chance they get.  Even though he is really better than they are and that in by the numbers and not my opinion.  My son handles it very well because he doesn't take any of the other players crap.  His knowledge and love of the game amazes me sometimes.

Does your son think he should be playing varsity?  If he's handling it well and producing then it will happen probably.  You've stated that he's an average player based on your first post.  He needs to learn to stand out and perform better than everyone else.  Maybe that's possible and maybe it's not.  Your son talking to the head coach is the best route to get an idea of what he needs to do.  If he's not letting the trash talk from the others on his team bother him then he's doing the right thing.  Good for him.  Too many people would use that as a ready made excuse to fail because it's easier.

That is the thing he does produce when given an opportunity.  His freshman year he didn't play the first five games was given a pinch hit chance and produces every time.  Went 3 for 4 in that spot then moved into the DH at 9 spot and worked his way up to 5 spot. His school has a summer ball team and after producing like he did he didn't want him for that team.  So he found another team that ended up playing his high schools summer ball team and he produced against his own team 2-3.  So very satisfying.  Its been a long hard road and he is going to camps and seeing College coaches for instruction to get better.  He really wants to play in college but if he doesn't that is fine at least he is a good student and will be fine.  But, I feel my job as a parent is to help him get there but he has to be the one to really do it.  Our schools politics is really sickening and we are considering transferring to another school just to get away for this coach.  Thanks to all for advice.  I was really just wanting to vent.

I feel your frustration.  Just went thru a similar experience in basketball.  Suffice it to say that the coach and I had diametrically opposing views on the basics of the game.  He was all about "defense" and my belief is that while defense is important, you have to be able to score a little bit.  It was so bad, that kids where actually punished for being aggressive on offense.  So all the offensive work I did with my kid over the years was "wasted."  Kid was one of best outside shooters (if not the best) on the team, but was never used when it might make a difference.  Talk about wanting to smash you head in a vice. 

So what advice can I give?  I'll agree with the "have your son ask the coach" advice.  But be prepared for a BS answer.  Some coaches might give you an answer you can't change -- ie; speed, height.  The great thing about baseball is there is always another season, team or coach.  So make sure the kid doesn't get discouraged and focuses on getting better.  Vodka works too.    Good luck. 

Yeah I am with you.  I know he will get a bullshit answer.  And that is fine.  I think I disagree with the coach but don't really know.  I have a Moneyball way of thinking.  I look at OBP as being the big driver to an offense.  I don't care if you can hit 10 homeruns if you OBP is only .200 you aren't as valuable as a player that hits a lot of singles and doubles with a OBP of .400.  And that may be the problem.  I really have nothing good to say about the coach.  That is why we are thinking about leaving the school district.  

Irondad,

It’s really impossible for outsiders like us who know nothing about the program or have even seen the teams play to give much more of an answer than you’ve already been given. While it sounds as though there’s some hanky-panky going on, there’s always more than one side to any story.

If you lived where I do it wouldn’t be an issue. Jrs aren’t allowed to play on JV teams. As a Jr they’re either on the V or out of the program.

I hear you.  I think there is fetish with "power."  I had the director of our summer program criticize our summer coach for his approach to hitting (contact and singles vs. HRs).  The guy was talking about how many home runs a 5 foot 100 lb. kid wouldn't hit with "that swing."   

But I don't know about transferring with one year left just because of baseball.  Sounds like your kid has other opportunities to get noticed over the summer.  As you will see via many posts on this site HS baseball and college recruiting don't necessarily equate.  I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it for myself.  One of my kid's former teammates brother didn't play HS as a JR/SR.  He was small and lacked the physical tools.  Instead he got with a good travel organization, grew, and managed to "commit" to a D3 school with a pretty good program. 

The problem with that is there wouldn't be enough players due to school size.  We only had 24 go out and there are four juniors on the JV roster and two of the four are also on the V roster and the two that are one didn't play last year due to grades and the other hasn't played since 8th grade.  So yeah hanky panky is rather obvious.  To answer the question from coach2709 Yes my son thinks he should start V or atleast given a shot. The kid has grown as a player so much its crazy.  

Oh look another coach bashing thread because I'm not getting my way.  So I'm going to tell just one side of the story hoping to hook a few other disgruntled parents to chime in.  Maybe you're right and this coach and the basketball coach are idiots.  They exist and they won't ever go away.  But there are great coaches out there and even they get criticized over stupid stuff and sometimes over things they should get criticized for.  Thing is - getting on here and complaining won't change a single solitary thing.  Your kid will stay on the bench, he may or not have this conversation but it won't be what either of you want to hear so it will become a BS answer.  It may actually be a BS answer.  End of the day it doesn't matter - your kid will be on the bench or the team won't be running what you think is right offense or defense or whatever.

Let me let you in on a magic secret - your opinion on how the team is ran doesn't mean a single solitary thing.  So either get over it, start your own team or find someone who will agree with you.  Either way just stop talking about it and help get your son better because what you think is producing obviously isn't to the coach.  Guess who makes out the lineup card - not you.  You're not doing your son any favors by taking this attitude.

Golfman25 I tend to agree with you on that but we also don't really care for the school and we have a daughter that will be a Freshman next year and are thinking of getting her out of there because of family members coaching a lot of the programs and therefore only friends make the team.  And she is not in the group.  So we are thinking about getting her out of there as well.  He had an opportunity to play for a quality team but it was stupid expensive $2000 for 7 tournaments.  We are already talking to College coaches.  His pitching coach is the local college pitching coach and that is nice exposure.

Coach2709 the biggest problem is the coach tell the kids one thing and then does another.  Yeah I know my opinion doesn't and am fine with that.  We had a run in with this coach during summer ball when my kid was playing against him.  He was a total ass to him and my family and he actually kinda made a challenging remark and I was really close to going after him after he challenged me by yelling know the game because my son didn't back off to allow a pitcher to warm up.  Which the ump should have done not my kids fault.  He just showed his true colors because he was losing the game.  So I am biased to dislike him.  

Could you explain this situation for me?

Coach its all about opportunity and my son has proven himself and yet to opportunity.  The coach talks about expectations of some being high and performing low and low and performing high.  Well if you have low expectations of me and I perform way above those expectations shouldn't I be rewarded with opportunity?  Just sayin

$2,000 for 7 tourneys is about right cost-wise around here.  

If your looking for college exposure it maybe your best option depending on the program.  Baseball recruiting has changed over the last few years.  The HS programs are no longer the primary way in which a kid reaches the college level.  Most of the recruiting and exposure happens through the travel programs.  

I would suggest not worrying about what is happening with the HS program, spend sometime on this website reading through the old posts and learn about how the recruiting game is currently working.  Then put together a plan to get your son the proper exposure.  Just working with a college pitching coach is not enough.  Nor is relying on a HS or travel program.  

If your son is a HS jr, your window is closing but its not completely shut at this point.  You will need to put together a plan pretty quickly.

+1.  If a new pitcher was warming up you kid should not have been anywhere near the batters box.  Funny that this came up as I was sitting with a friend who is (IMO) a very good ump at my sons game this weekend.  We were watching a kid warm up and the batter was standing just outside the box.  Pretty much touching the outside line.   My friend pointed it out to me and made the comment that the kid needs to learn the unwritten rules before he gets plucked.  He also mentioned that the ump should move him.

Look I just want to know about the highlighted situation above.  I cannot begin to even come up with a situation where something like this would happen where your kid didn't back off to let someone warm up.  Back up off what or where?  I'm genuinely serious about what could have happened.

You know to never challenge an authority figure in public. Many coaches, just like many parents, are reliving their playing days through the athletes.  If the coach is like you said, then challenging him will not end well for your son.  Not to be a jerk, you had to know if he didn't want your son on the team in the summer and then makes a fool of himself (sounds like you did also) then it would have been better to move on down the road with your son.  HS is too short to deal with bad situations.

Now with that said,  there are very few coaches I have met that don't want the best players on their team.  Usually if a kid is not on the team it is because a) coach doesn't feel he can compete or perform or b) grades and/or attitude are an issue or at least a concern for the coach.  Both of these are valid reasons for a coach.  However, both are also fixable by the player.  If your son is a yes sir, no sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am, first in weight room, first in the cages, etc...then the attitude won't be an issue.  If he has his grades in order (not a C); then no concerns there.

As far as performance, son has to weight and take care of chances when they come. My son has a good friend that started Jr year on JV. He didn't get to scrimmage with varisty, ride with varsity, nada.  There were some mistakes in a tournament with the outfield and coached called him from the field and after 4th game that weekend, he called kid and said I need to make a point to the varsity so come to the field and I will play you.  Kid got his chance...kid never missed a game after that, 2nd team all district as a jr and 1st team as a sr and is now on the college level playing ball.  Parents were pissed about jv and the kids was pissed about jv, but you know what; the kid kept his head down and took advantage of his chance. 

My son was told as a soph that he will never pitch at the varisty level because they don't see him a pitcher.  When jr year started, same thing but a couple of injuries happened and coach asked him to throw a couple innings in scrimmage to help team. Struck out the side in 1st inning and 3 inf pops the next innings.  Senior season, didn't lose a game and was district mvp now not only plays the field in college but a starter on the mound.  He was discouraged and pissed about being told not a pitcher, but kept head down and took advantage of chance.

Same team, another kid who's parents always publically questioned the coaches, made comments to coach and wondered out loud why son didn't get to do this or do that.  Guess, what kid got less chances and when he did; his mind was never ready for it because of his pity party. Guess what kind of recommendation he got from the coaching staff when colleges saw him?

To explain the situation.  My son was up to bat and He didn't realize that he changed pitchers the two pitchers looked a lot alike.  The the coach started yelling about my son being too close and he kept it up for a couple minutes when my wife yelled thats enough because she thought he was yelling at our son who had just turned 15 so keep that in perspective. That is when HE challenged US and started yelling "what"and "know the game".  I didn't go after him because It was not a fight worth fighting.  He finally shut up after he realized what he had done.  Basically made himself look bad and all of the parent seen his true colors.  But it doesn't change the fact that he did what he did.  

OA5II  I don't say a word to the coach I watch the game and don't say a word.  I let my son play without saying anything.  Never do and never will if figure at that point whats the point.

You are not going to like this... the above statement makes it obvious why your son never is on JV.  How can you not know that there is a pitching change? But regardless, when a pitcher is  warming up you stay out of the box.

Your son should know better to back off without anyone telling him to do so.

This is HS bb, not moneyball. You want the coach to run his team the way you think he should.  Not going to happen, let your son handle it and stay out of view. You may have ruined things for him.

Do HS programs let juniors on JV?

See http://community.hsbaseballweb...ic/advice-to-newbies , especially #7 on this recent instant "Golden Thread".

So there's only 24 kids in the program, and your kid had to scratch and claw to break into the subvarsity lineup, ANNNND he was unaware they were making a pitching change and stayed in the dirt because the pitchers "looked alike?"

At this point I think you should feel lucky your kid is able to "dress" at any level. 

(I'm hoping this is all a joke, but kinda hoping it's not)

OK lets try this again.  My son is a Junior the incident with the coach happened when he was during the summer after his freshman year.  The coach didn't want him for the summer ball team so he found another 15u team.  He was talking to his third base coach and the opposing coach call a team meeting at the mound and changed pitchers.  My son was not paying attention.  It was an honest mistake on his part.  And the coach handled it badly.  He really wasn't yelling at my son and more at the ump but it sure looked like it and that is when my wife yelled thats enough.  I was watching and didn't see that he had made a change.  Yeah he had to claw for everything.  Remember 14-15 year old and if he didn't know well his HIGH SCHOOL coach should have told him during the season...oh yeah that is the one you screamed and yelled  get it

Also he was just outside the dirt wasn't even close to the batters box.  The thing is the coach has his favorites and everyone know it and I accept it I just wanted to know if my thinking of opportunities would be a logical opinion.  If he performs give him opportunity if not no opportunity.  I would not be saying that if he batted say .250 last year on JV.  Because I would know he is not ready for the better pitchers.  That is the thing I can separate myself from being a dad if didn't think he could hack it I would tell him.  I am an engineer and I look at numbers and the numbers don't add up with what he does.  But of course baseball is not about logic.  

Please realize that a lot of freshman are still 14 years old.  If they want to play high school ball, they need to show that they are always aware of the situation.  If I were that coach, my impression would have been: "This kid does not play attention to the situation.  Can I count on him in a game?"  I realize all kids make mistakes.  I have seen my own kid get caught off base when there was no reason other then not knowing the situation.  I am also sure if a new coach was watching, my son would not have impressed him.  

As for your wife speaking up. That will never help your son.  In two years of high school ball, I have never said a word to a coach during a game.  Either to our coach or the opposing coach.  If the opposing coach is out of line, I let our coach handle it.    

Your getting lots of good advice on this thread.  I'd suggest stepping back a moment and clear out your personal feelings and re-read the suggestions.  We all know its very frustrating, but your son will need to sort it out with his coach.  There is a life lesson in there somewhere!

Still doesn't make sense. Who called time, the 3b coach or the coach making the pitching change? How long was the dang conversation? At least 8 warm-up pitches long? That's pretty in-depth coaching for a game. 

Sorry I'm not more sympathetic. 

As far as speaking to the coach, during my sons frosh year here are the total conversations I have had with him.

Every game, "Hey Coach"

Every double header, "Hey Coach the dads and I are grilling up burgers and dogs, you want one"

After the Championship game of the summer league HS state tourney.  "Hey coach why'd ya do that to me.  Bringing him in in the bottom of the 7th with bases loaded and us up by 3.  Did ya think I needed a heart attack or something".  Coach, "He's the man in those situations, you might want to start bringing your cardiologist to the games".

This year, its been "Hey Coach".  

BTW I know all these coaches on a personal level to some extent.  My wife works in the district and has worked with these guys for years.  Its very rare we discuss baseball with them.  If it does come up (at a school function or banquet) its usually more along the lines of Coach to me "Hey XXXX is looking good" or me to the coach "Hey is XXXX a tough team this year"  Thats about it never ever talk about players or games in any details.  IMO thats the way it needs to be.

Against my personal rules,  I did find myself talking about my son with his coach the other day.   Coach has a toddler, a beautiful boy with long blond curls. I said, you know, he reminds me of JCG-son at that age.  He was so damn sweet.  Always wanted to hold hands. Got to enjoy these years. Lot of work, but he'll be knobby and pimply  before you know it.  Coach said, I will.  And JCG-son is still a very nice kid.  This team is full of good kids.

guess you had to be there.  Everyone there was in shock the way he ac  The coach was out of line.  Yeah he wasn't where he should have been that happens it is summer ball.  Not a tournament just a pick up game.  He called the whole infield to the mound.  If you are not paying close attention it can happen.  Its not like he called someone from the bull pin.  He did a switch and the second baseman came in to pitch and the pitcher went to second base.  The coach didn't have to rant like he did.  Once again KIDS not ADULTS.  And he was ranting over one of his own High School team members.  

As a dad, I would back off and just enjoy his junior year of high school baseball no matter what the level.  Baseball seasons seem to go by in the blink of an eye.  I assume that your high school does not allow seniors on JV so your son should do everything he can to make the varsity roster next year (this includes apologizing for the incident a few years ago) and asking the coach exactly what he should do this summer and next fall to have a chance to make the varsity next year.

Once again I know its up to my son to figure it out.  I just want to see what other people thought of the stats and if there is a valid reason for not giving an opportunity hence the theads name.  It kinda got hijacked by my dislike for the coach.  As for the JV coach couldn't stand the coach my sons freshman year but last year and this year the coach is a really good coach.  My son will probably learn more for him than the head coach.  But he won't see the better players at JV double edged sword.  The JV coach is a very positive coach and is really good with the younger players unlike the head coach.    

You are bringing up stuff that happened a few years ago and not relevant to the issue.

I agree with 458, you need to put this aside and just enjoy what may be his last year of HS ball.

If that was at all true, my kid's entire Freshman team would never be expected to play Varsity.  They're freshman -- deer in the headlights.  Everything is a delayed reaction -- they are several seconds behind what is going on.  If you can get them on the field, with their jersey, pants, hat, cleats and two of the same color socks you've made progress.   

Actually, it is entirely relevant.  There is a high probability that the coach is holding the parents actions during this incident against the kid.  I suspect there is a lot more going on here.