If getting healthy causes him to miss the window for a 4-year school. He can still go to a JUCO and demonstrate his ability and get to one. Probably even a better one since he will have a resume showing what he can do against college hitting.
@Rockers posted:To me at the end of the day it’s all about getting a good education. Nobody plays baseball forever. It’s been our goal since the very beginning and I have seen to many kids/ parents try and go the JUCO route or some other means and they end up not graduating. Our time is up it’s as simple as that. It’s a dam shame.
FWIW, you can get a good education and play baseball in college. If you do your homework, you will find that in 100s programs, the path for many was JUCO first. Here in FL, we have JUCOs that win championships. You have to be really good to play on their teams.
A question, WHAT DOES YOUR SON WANT TO DO?
@Rockers posted:I have been living by the motto D1 or nothing. I just don’t see the point wasting time at a JUCO and then trying to get into a D1. I think we just need to change our mindset that his career his done and it’s time to just move on.
Is this for real? If so its really sad... From reading this thread it appears this is your dream and very little has been said about what your son wants. You never expounded on the fatigue/stress fracture question, you discount the JUCO route as well as D2 or D3 in the name of best education? I guess this is what infuriates so many on here about the D1 or bust mentality. The majority of kids that play baseball after high school are not playing D1. I think it is also a cop out to use the D1 or bust excuse to not play somewhere else. If your son is that good and that good of a student, he will perform well on the field and in the classroom and graduate. I am curious - were the 14 D1 coaches actually going to be there to see your son pitch or 14 D1 coaches were listed as attending the tournament your team was playing at. If they were there to see your son there must have been some good communication in his recruiting since he is a rising senior... I guess I just call BS on all this...
Yes, this is real. It was down at the WWBA down in Atlanta beginning on July 5. Coach had been communicating with all of them.
He has a stress fracture and couldn’t pitch and hasn’t pitched since. He now has to go through PT, which could be as long as six weeks , which takes you to the close of September. You have at most two weeks left in October then you have a dead period. No school is going to pick up a player seeing him just once. They want to see him more than once and they want to build a rapport with him.
JUCO is not a route I would ever let him take. I have seen to many kids go that route, fail, and end up working at a big box store and never graduate.I am not going to let him end up being one of those kids that ends up giving baseball lessons for the rest of his life.
Again I have seen to many people try and try and end up with no education and are now kicking themselves for doing that.
At the end of the day my point is if he can’t get on the mound this fall he is screwed.
I kind of agree with you about JUCO not being a direction to go for several reasons but they aren't important to this conversation.
What is wrong with him going to a nice D3 school if he so chooses? You can get a quality education and have the chance to play baseball. If he can pitch at any level close enough to consider D1 or bust mentality virtually every D3 in country would be willing to give him a look.
You might be surprised with what you find.
No school is going to pick up a player seeing him just once. They want to see him more than once and they want to build a rapport with him.
Let’s clarify the fourteen schools with interest. How many times have these schools seen him pitch? How much live dialog has he had with these schools? Unless your son is an extreme late bloomer he should have already been on their “seen him once or twice” radar heading into this summer. He should already be texting and talking with them. The harsh reality is when getting injured schools tend to disappear. They keep prospecting elsewhere.
If these schools haven’t seen him he’s a B list suspect, not a prospect. These schools aren’t hanging around waiting for your son to get healthy unless he’s a jaw dropping, draft prospect. Either the sights need to be lowered or the process needs to be delayed a year.
Your son could showcase next summer for the following year. He may be invited to attempt to walk on for the preceding year. Pitchers have a better shot at walking on. Or he could stay home, workout, keep getting stronger and get four classes* (two per semester) out of the way at a local JuCo without starting the eligibility clock.
Are you telling your kid he’s screwed? Or are you telling him you need to figure out a way around this obstacle?
“The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough. The brick walls are there to stop the other people.”
- Randy Pausch
* When son got injured and considered this route we were told two classes per semester at that time.
@Rockers posted:At the end of the day my point is if he can’t get on the mound this fall he is screwed.
This statement is FALSE on so many levels. But I'm going to guess despite the numerous examples that will follow, you've made up your mind.
RJM - most of the schools had been in contact with his coach prospecting him prior to July. Others we did have contact with via text and phone calls. July would have been the first time some of them would have seen him pitch.
I totally agree with you nobody is waiting around for somebody to get healthy. I wouldn’t either if I was in their shoes.
Taking a break from school or only taking a couple classes is not an option. I am not for drawing out getting a degree and spending even more money, etc.
He knows he is screwed just like I do. We talked about Division 1 or nothing since the very beginning. And to be honest he agrees. I see kids that are still trying to get into a Division 1 school that graduated three years ago. What a waste of time. You need to know when to move on.
Time is ticking…
We talked about Division 1 or nothing since the very beginning.
Did you talk him into this? Why would a kid think this way? Is he doing this for ego and chest thumping? He must not love the game if he doesn’t want to look at other avenues to continue. A potential D1 prospect can most likely walk in and start at a place like Hopkins (assuming baseball can get him accepted). It’s a usually ranked D3. It’s hard to find a better education anywhere. There are lots of schools like this. A friend’s son went to Hopkins throwing 85. He left throwing 92 and headed for pro ball.
So I'm just puzzled. You haven't said anything about what kind of student your son is, but most here think you are over-reacting. Why not do this:
- have your son make a list of schools he would go to if baseball were done. Apply to those schools this fall.
- have your son make a list of D1 schools who were once interested in his baseball. Have the travel coach contact them to explain the situation, ask if they would still be interested. Have him apply to some of them (without baseball) this fall.
- have your son identify some D2, D3 four-year schools that might/would be interested in his baseball. Have him apply to some of them (without baseball) this fall.
That way he will have several options. Get him ready to have a great senior HS baseball season, and then see what happens.
You still haven't said what your son wants. It could be anything from relieved not to have the baseball pressure, to really depressed that it has turned out this way. Don't let your attitude of "it's all hopeless" affect him. As many here have said, it is NOT all hopeless, but if you tell him it is, he may start to believe it.
He does not have the grades to get into John Hopkins. If he did I would be all for it.
@Rockers posted:He does not have the grades to get into John Hopkins. If he did I would be all for it.
There are similar schools not quite as high academically but still academically strong with great baseball programs. Hopkins is just an example. If a kid is a strong baseball prospect the coaches at HA’s often get a handful of players through admissions with lesser (still very good) grades.
What are his academic credentials?
@Rockers said "I am not going to let him end up being one of those kids that ends up giving baseball lessons for the rest of his life."
As a parent, I can certainly appreciate wanting the best for your kid. We all do to some degree. But the tone you take sounds like you're 100% certain he can't find a happy life that involves giving lessons for the rest of his life. That sounds awfully presumptuous to me. The world needs people working at big box stores and teaching baseball lessons just as much as it needs doctors and lawyers. As is stands, I know some doctors and lawyers who do not live happy lives. They never stress about money and they have bragging rights over most of their peers, but they're not happy. Their buckets aren't filled.
To each their own, but I want happiness first and foremost for my kids. My grandparents raised 7 kids with only my grandpa working - as a DJ. NEVER had money. In my 46 years, I've never come across a couple (family or otherwise) as happy and truly in love as they were until the day they died. If my grandfather would have worked at a big box store or given baseball lessons his whole life, I promise they would have been no different. Food for thought.
I think he should look at D3s. There are a lot academic range in those schools. If he develops into an ace they will draft him. My kid (and to a degree wife) were HA D1s all the way. The Ivies COA made my wife reconsider since my kid will need some level of grad school anyway, the service academies were nice (no cost) until the reality of service and limited summer ball was a no go and the rest of the Patriot didn't interest him or didn't really love him. Anyway with a little digging he realized a HA D3 was a perfect fit for him and the college he eventually committed to even had a position player get drafted pre-pandemic, so there was an opportunity to advance a baseball career so really could have his cake and eat it too.
Anyone can correct me if I’m wrong. A lefty maxing 87 is likely cruising 84/85. If a D1 prospect it’s likely lower end D1 given it post junior summer. There are plenty of ranked D2 and D3 programs who can give lower D1’s a game with their top pitchers. Why not consider all competitive programs?
As I once posted, and it turned out a poster’s son was on the team and agreed, a friend’s son was on a D3 championship team. The dog pile looked the same as a D1 dog pile. It looked like the players were having just as much fun.
Another friend’s son, a lefty had a breakout year senior year at a top high school baseball program in the area. He grew and was hitting upper 80’s. A local D1 offered a walk on roster spot guaranteed. They didn’t have any money left. They got him money soph year.
A left handed pitcher’s warranty isn’t void until five years after the death certificate is filed. Ask Terry Mulholland.
RJM - you are correct these are mid major schools, not top 25. You go to any of those schools this late you are just a number and will have a really hard time getting playing time. Additionally, the money is slim pickings at this point. At this point we are going to focus on getting into college and if baseball happens it’s a bonus. That’s all I can do at this point.
@Rockers posted:RJM - you are correct these are mid major schools, not top 25. You go to any of those schools this late you are just a number and will have a really hard time getting playing time. Additionally, the money is slim pickings at this point. At this point we are going to focus on getting into college and if baseball happens it’s a bonus. That’s all I can do at this point.
You’re overlooking using baseball at another level to get into a college he might otherwise not get accepted without baseball.
When it’s all said and done if a kid even talks about playing college baseball it’s just, “I played college ball.” People are impressed about any level. If asked where there aren’t that many colleges percentage wise with the ”wow” factor.
Other than people really into college baseball most people don’t know what schools to get wowed about.
@RJM posted:Anyone can correct me if I’m wrong. A lefty maxing 87 is likely cruising 84/85. If a D1 prospect it’s likely lower end D1 given it post junior summer. There are plenty of ranked D2 and D3 programs who can give lower D1’s a game with their top pitchers. Why not consider all competitive programs?
These were my son's stats in High School as an LHP. As noted here before he plays for a highly ranked D3 HA program. He's very happy with HIS choice. I don't get the D1 or bust mentality but to each their own. @rockers I wish your son much academic success wherever he chooses to attend but as mentioned he likely can attend an even better academic school, and with certainty via a chit, if you consider playing at a HA ranked school below D1 which can beat the lower half of D1 schools. I get your mind is made up but sounds like you are still mentally dealing wiht the blow of an untimely injury. Hope you give it a week or two and then re-evaluate.
@RJM posted:You’re overlooking using baseball at another level to get into a college he might otherwise not get accepted without baseball.
When it’s all said and done if a kid even talks about playing college baseball it’s just, “I played college ball.” People are impressed about any level. If asked where there aren’t that many colleges percentage wise with the ”wow” factor.
Other than people really into college baseball most people don’t know what schools to get wowed about.
This was clearly the case for my kid a total reach school...he denies it but I do not think he would have made it given the very competitive admissions at that school.
@RJM posted:...As I once posted, and it turned out a poster’s son was on the team and agreed, a friend’s son was on a D3 championship team. The dog pile looked the same as a D1 dog pile. It looked like the players were having just as much fun...
Ha, I've seen you post that 10 or 100 times 
* But it's still true every time you post it...
@T_Thomas posted:Ha, I've seen you post that 10 or 100 times
* But it's still true every time you post it...
At least ten times! In one of the recent posts I found a picture to add. A poster’s son was in it. The people keep cycling through. I’ll keep telling it. Someone else may have to take over with a new D3 championship story. The kid I’m talking about is 34 now.
Rockers has never indicated what his son wants.
Interesting.
Was watching A League of Their Own a while back with my 20 year old. After the "It's supposed to be hard" scene, and after we had rewound it and watched a couple times, he looked at me and said - "...the walls..."
I guess I had told him that one a few times too.
So thanks for that.
What do you think he wants? To play JUCO. He goes to a private school and you think I am going to let him go to a community college after I sunk all that money into school. Every kid should want to play D1. If you don’t then there is something wrong with them.
@Rockers My wife and I are very grateful to those who "are giving lessons the rest of their lives" as they have passed on their passion and knowledge of the game to our son and countless others! I get the gist of what you're saying, though.
Our son & daughter have been getting lessons from former MLB, MiLB, and college players, and they are all great people, all successful at what they do, with many of them having their own businesses -- most unrelated to baseball.
I have a couple of cousins who played MiLB with one who played MLB for over 15 years, and coached in the minors for over 15 years. Guess what he's up to these days? Coaching a local HS team, giving lessons, working with college players, etc. He was drafted right out of HS (so was his brother).
His father was a salesman, retired in his 50's, and he was still coaching a HS team in his mid-80's when he passed on earlier this year. He's also in the Cape Cod HOF as a coach. Never played an inning of college or pro ball, and impacted the lives of many young men.
We'd be pretty darn proud if our son or daughter did the same!
He is working all those jobs to make ends meet. That’s what all those guys do to scrape by. When you have an education and work in corporate America you don’t need to do work three jobs or give lessons, etc.
Listen I get it. You all have great insight. At the end of the day what happens, happens.
My son chose to coach. He does not make a lot of money and has turned down several sales jobs because he would be great at it. But his CALLING is coaching.
The other son owns his own business and could grow it exponentially but turns down work every week because he loves being able to be a Varsity basketball coach. He does not want to have more money that keeps him from coaching.
My youngest plans on coaching when his playing days are over. He hopes to play professionally but who knows what the future holds. But while he is playing college ball he is building relationships to prepare for the future.
Your D1 or bust mentality does not make sense. I understand swinging for the fences because my youngest desired to play in the SEC. He worked hard to get there and has accomplished that goal and is on a team that made it to Omaha. Even though he never started a game he played a big role in many series. But there were also 4 guys that started for that team that started their careers at JUCO's that were drafted.
It would be like saying if I'm not good enough to go straight to the majors, I don't want to be drafted. JUCO is not the garbage heap. It is where a lot of draftees come from and I would say 33% of all P5 starters come from. (Have never researched it).
@Rockers One of my other cousins, a LHP, went to JUCO, and was drafted by the Mets. Played in the minors with Strawberry, Gooden, McLendon, Dykstra. Never made it to D1.
Our son would love to play D1 baseball. The reality is he will likely be limited in his options due to his size (he's a pitcher), that's a simple reality, and he's 100% good with it. He is looking at schools for academic interests first, then baseball fit 2nd. Has no interest in attending a school, even D1, just because he can make the team, and maybe even get on the field, if it is of no interest to him academically. Same goes for any other level. There are club teams and men's leagues if he wants to continue having fun playing ball.
There is more than a handful of D1 players who wouldn't make the cut at top programs in other divisions.
@Rockers posted:What do you think he wants? To play JUCO. He goes to a private school and you think I am going to let him go to a community college after I sunk all that money into school. Every kid should want to play D1. If you don’t then there is something wrong with them.
Dude you are so far off... My son went to a private school and is a LHP who started at a D2 (Deans List), transferred to a JUCO (Deans List/Academic All American), is currently playing at another D2 (Deans List/Conference Academic team etc.). It has nothing to do with the school or level but what your kid is willing to do in the classroom. Do you realize how difficult it is to balance the full time baseball gig and full time class load? What an elitist bunch of BS. SO is this about your ego or what you son wants to do? Yes most every kid thinks he wants to play D1. Do they know the sacrifices it takes? The reality is that MOST kids are not anywhere near talented enough to play D1. A LHP throwing mid 80s now are a dime a dozen just the same as RHPs throwing 90 really are nothing special in this day and age. If you really want to help your son, figure out what level he can really play at and support him in that. Wingate just won the D2 championship in Cary and maybe you should check out some of their games since you are in Charlotte and see the level of play at a lowly D2...
@Rockers posted:At the end of the day my point is if he can’t get on the mound this fall he is screwed.
It seems a slight change to your screen name is in order. May I suggest @OffMyRocker ?
@Rockers posted:What do you think he wants? To play JUCO. He goes to a private school and you think I am going to let him go to a community college after I sunk all that money into school. Every kid should want to play D1. If you don’t then there is something wrong with them.
So, what you have here is a situation in which an injury has derailed recruiting at a critical time. Not a situation in which a kid who wanted to go D1 didn't get to go D1 for other reasons.
For him, going to a JUCO would not be because he was too young/small, or not developed enough, or with not good enough grades for D1. It would simply be because of the injury.
@Rockers posted:RJM - you are correct these are mid major schools, not top 25. You go to any of those schools this late you are just a number and will have a really hard time getting playing time.
Early commits also have a hard time getting playing time at D1s. Do you not read this site? I'm curious - what would you have said if he had been seen by those 14 D1 schools, gotten some offers, and taken one. Then gotten there in the fall and gotten cut, or not gotten playing time in the spring? And wanted to leave? You're acting like these D1 offers were perfect, and nothing else is possible at all.
@adbono posted:It seems a slight change to your screen name is in order. May I suggest @OffMyRocker ?
A couple of times I thought this was @IAmThatGuy posting under another account. But sadly, no.
@LousyLefty posted:A couple of times I thought this was @IAmThatGuy posting under another account. But sadly, no.
I would like to state clearly I am not @Rockers. If I were him I would just pre-commit my son to the school of his choice right now. I still don't know why you have to wait for the coaches to ask you.
@T_Thomas posted:Was watching A League of Their Own a while back with my 20 year old. After the "It's supposed to be hard" scene, and after we had rewound it and watched a couple times, he looked at me and said - "...the walls..."
I guess I had told him that one a few times too.
So thanks for that.
If you want to see the short version (about ten minutes) of Randy Pausch’s Last Lecture (with the walls story) Google “Randy Pausch Last Lecture Oprah.” It’s awesome.
@anotherparent posted:So, what you have here is a situation in which an injury has derailed recruiting at a critical time. Not a situation in which a kid who wanted to go D1 didn't get to go D1 for other reasons.
For him, going to a JUCO would not be because he was too young/small, or not developed enough, or with not good enough grades for D1. It would simply be because of the injury.
Early commits also have a hard time getting playing time at D1s. Do you not read this site? I'm curious - what would you have said if he had been seen by those 14 D1 schools, gotten some offers, and taken one. Then gotten there in the fall and gotten cut, or not gotten playing time in the spring? And wanted to leave? You're acting like these D1 offers were perfect, and nothing else is possible at all.
They’re not even offers. They’re inquiries. He’s a suspect at fourteen D1’s.
I can understand not wanting to go from a private school to a JuCo. But if plans get changed because of injury are you afraid someone might talk behind your back your son went to a JuCo for a year or took some classes at a JuCo? Who cares about people who will talk behind your back! If he ends up with a good job out of college, who cares?
My son was in the gifted program from 3rd grade when it started through high school. An injury derailed post junior summer. Had he not got a late summer offer (summer after senior year) for the following year he was going to reclassify and take a couple of courses each semester at a JuCo just to maintain study habits. He wasn’t going to play. Two classes per semester wouldn’t have started the clock.
@IAmThatGuy posted:I would like to state clearly I am not @Rockers. If I were him I would just pre-commit my son to the school of his choice right now. I still don't know why you have to wait for the coaches to ask you.
Well, only a few seasoned veterans like you can pull that off! You have a unique understanding of the recruiting process!!
@LousyLefty posted:A couple of times I thought this was @IAmThatGuy posting under another account. But sadly, no.
You aren't far off, but it's not Rockers.