LL has to be cringing about this statement by Karl Ravech

RJM posted:

"It's not about signing up for LL. It's about getting to Williamsport and playing for a championship."

It's hardly the LL mission statement. 

Pretty much the reality for most.   That statement won't get much traction though.  The ESPN advertising dollars will still come flying in; pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, the Emporer wear's clothes etc etc

It's just a dumb comment by a guy on TV.  Good board members at good leagues know what their purpose of their program is, and run it accordingly.

I saw that sentiment in my son's little league.  And saw it tear apart the league.  We actually had two geo chartered little league's play at the same park, and run by the same board.  "American" and "National".  For several years, if one side had markedly better talent, about four or five families would have "marital problems" right at league registration time, causing the husband to rent an apartment in the other league's geo.  Little League must have been great at counseling troubled couples. Then they would swiftly work out their differences and the husband would "move back in" before the first game of the season.  These "stacked" all-star teams to be would play and practice as a travel team before and during the season.  So a pre-determined all star team organized by a few aggressive dad's would result.

And they never won in all stars.

I love watching the LLWS in August...other then that I hate LL, I would never want to be a part of it, I feel Ripken is the far superior local level organization and I feel the better local organizations are a part of Ripken.

I would imagine Karl's rug is wishing it could be on Marv Albert about right now.

I think his comment was meant to be about what the kids feel....not what LL or the local boards feel.  We went to the LLWS when my son was 10.  He liked it so much he talked me into forming a LL so we would have a chance to play in Williamsport.  We never made it, but took another trip with 40 or so people from our hometown a couple years later.  You've never seen kids (even non-baseball kids) have so much fun over the course of 3 or 4 days.  I get it that LL isn't "real baseball"....but unless you've been to Williamsport, you will never understand the draw of that place.

For all of its issues, the LLWS, Williamsport, and ESPN/ABC coverage (and dollars) is the center pole of the LL circus tent. The prospect of making a deep-run is what keeps so many kids and families in the system.

Just wanted to add: my son played in LL from 1st through 7th grade (Juniors), and on 3 AS teams. LL was a huge part of his childhood and we are big supporters. My point above was that the LLWS/ Williamsport/ESPN connection is the glue that keeps LL lock-down relevant in an increasingly travel baseball era for the older kids. And that's mostly a good thing.

Is it any different than how coaches and kids feel about Cooperstown?

Some families honestly thought the little AAA team was going to beat out 103 other teams...teams that had been put together from across states for JUST this tourney.  Thank goodness the coaches had a clue.  No bunts, everyone swings away, everyone plays, everyone have fun...etc.  Awesome week as far as I was concerned, some parents felt VERY differently.

How good any local program is depends on the local people not the brand. Honest people will run an honest program. Dishonest people will run a dishonest program. 

I've been on boards and coached while son played in both CR and LL. If your league is competitive with the potential to win districts LL is a lot of fun. From an administrative standpoint LL can be a nightmare. When asked to compare the two I explain LL tells you where to go to the bathroom, how to go to the bathroom, what toilet paper to use and how to use it. Ripken tells you not to get any on you.

From experience I can tell you if you have a dishonest board in Ripken they can run roughshod over the lack of rules. Given how long LL has been in business it may be why they have so many rules. 

My son played on two LL all star teams that played into August. A couple of kids on the team became my son's best friends. They didn't attend the same school until middle school. The team and parents were close. Several new parental friendships were made. It was a great time. 

My son and I went to Williamsport when he was a 10-12yo. It's Disneyland for baseball. The atmosphere is incredible. 

I have seen entire travel teams suddenly sign up for Little League when they are in that 12u year, having never participated before. The coaches, too.

Little League will be fine.   ESPN will be fine despite a bone-headed remark by one of its commentators...he was channeling his inner Curt Schilling.   I did not watch one LL game this year as I just can't take the home plate Mr Magoo umpires anymore.  Yes, it finally got to me.   I hope the strike zone was better this year.

However, I did watch the MLB game at Williamsport that had the LL kids in the stands watching the Big Leaguers. That is sheer genius by Commissioner Manfred and his team.   I like this Commissioner.

Fenwaysouth: the LLWS strike zone WAS better this year. Still up to 6" outside off the plate for a "pretty breaking ball", especially to RH hitters, but not 8-10" in years past and that were truly unhittable.

After watching most of states for Maine and Massachusetts I watched regions on ESPN3. The play at regions is more representive if what LL baseball really is. One team may dominate (Connecticut) and go to the LLWS. But the other games are often well matched. The LLWS is the best of the best with a lot of big kids. 

South Portland ME won states led by a five foot kid who could really play. The second best player on the team wasn't much bigger. These two kids have normal size fathers. They just haven't grown yet. I'm betting they will both be high school stars. Their two "big" kids weren't that big. On hr flip side Holden MA had a big team. They won a very challenging state tournament. They folded like a cheap tent at regions. They were gone in two games. 

After next year there won't be any thirteen year olds in LL. The deadline date is being changed to 8/31. It's the date most used across the country for grade deadline. The idea is to get the 13's off the field and make LL as grade appropriate as possible. 

Putting all these 13yos on the field wasn't LL's fault. USA Baseball made the change. Then they influenced all youth leagues to adopt the date. LL finally decided it was a bad idea. 

fenwaysouth posted:

Little League will be fine.   ESPN will be fine despite a bone-headed remark by one of its commentators...he was channeling his inner Curt Schilling.   I did not watch one LL game this year as I just can't the home plate Mr Magoo umpires anymore.  Yes, it finally got to me.   I hope the strike zone was better this year.

However, I did watch the MLB game at Williamsport that had the LL kids in the stands watching the Big Leaguers. That is sheer genius by Commissioner Manfred and his team.   I like this Commissioner.

You should have seen the reaction to the players around the LL stadiums where the kids could interact with the MLBers. 

I just happened to be biking by the district host, stopped to watch and biked to a game every night. Then I drove to states when I was back in MA. After that I had to follow those winners through regions. At that point I figured might as well follow through to the end. 

I probably won't watch LL for another three or four years. Three years ago was the first time since my son played. If anyone is wondering what you do when your kid finishes playing, you go watch other kids play at any level of competent ball (not regular season LL). Plus now parents are part of the entertainment instead of an annoyance. 

Go44dad posted:

I saw that sentiment in my son's little league.  And saw it tear apart the league.  We actually had two geo chartered little league's play at the same park, and run by the same board.  "American" and "National".  For several years, if one side had markedly better talent, about four or five families would have "marital problems" right at league registration time, causing the husband to rent an apartment in the other league's geo.  Little League must have been great at counseling troubled couples. Then they would swiftly work out their differences and the husband would "move back in" before the first game of the season.  These "stacked" all-star teams to be would play and practice as a travel team before and during the season.  So a pre-determined all star team organized by a few aggressive dad's would result.

And they never won in all stars.

ORWALL?

I almost agree with the guy.  We played Cal Ripken.  MUCH larger recruiting area.  It covers multiple LL areas.  We played at 10/u won all the way up to the last game at Regional and lost.  Missed the 10/u WS by that one game.  Went back to regionals at 11/u.  We had walked away from the "travel" club (Its the all star Cal Ripken team but they travel all spring long to stay together).  When the "league" had tryouts for the all star club, every kid that made the all star team was on the travel team.  We tried out, had better stat #s.  I think he hit over .600 for the league and tossed out several of the faster guys...whole 9 yards.  Better try out times too.....  But they said they didnt necessarily take the best 12 kids but the best kids in their roles.  

Yea-  A bunch of the teams are just dads trying to live through the kids and win for themselves.  Not for the kids... They went on to the world series and lost in the final US game.  As soon as they were done, team disbanded.  Parents couldnt stand the head coach. LOL.  Still friends to this day with several and we enjoy seeing each other at the bigger tournaments.    My son to this day has no regrets walking away from coaches disrespecting players!

National TV exposure has changed a lot of things. For the leagues that are constantly in the mix, he's definitely right. I've worked with several LL in the past and I can tell you most aren't focused on the LLWS thing because they don't stand much of a chance, anyway. However, I used to be around Richmond LL out of Texas and Bryant out of Arkansas and this was a big factor in a lot of decisions - not that they didn't also provide a good experience for every kid. They did. These were extremely competitive leagues.

With Bryant, they were constantly challenging, but could never get there. They lost three years running in the Regional final game. The next year we switched to Cal Ripken/Babe Ruth. The tight control LL has on the local leagues was stifling. 

We went to the LLWS when my son was 10.  Liked it so much that we headed home, I contacted our District Admin from LL and had a league sanctioned for the next summer. I was the President....3 friends filled the other 3 required spots (VP, Sec, Treaasurer).  We only had 8 teams, maybe  120 kids total.  Paperwork was ridiculous.  I can't imagine what it would have been like with a huge league.  It would have been a full time job.  We just didn't have the support for it that I thought we would....and shut it down after one year.  It was a good program, but we are in a football/basketball town and once it hits July, baseball takes a back seat. 

"If you ain't first, your last" - Ricky Bobby