Manny gone from Boston

Hey Puma1 don't snore watching this guy...the game will be over before you know he was even in the ball game. LOL

Just trying to make a point see how the wagons are circled when its your guy being singled out for the treatment.

Now you know why Manny put up his middle finger.

JMO

LLorton,

Chill out.

TPM said: Chill out.

Just having some fun...

Everybody's been beating up on Manny and I have aways stood up for the underdog or the downtrodding. It just part of my nature as a Leo.

JMO

Just saw ManRam in his Dodger blue cap and jersey ... the braids falling out from under his cap just looks so ... well, odd.

Yesterday I heard something funny about the trade, and I thought it was during a mid-game interview between Vin Scully and Fred McCourt but I can't remember for sure ... but whoever was involved, the interviewer asked the guest about Joe Torre's thoughts on the subject of ManRam coming to LA, and the guest said "Torre is hoping the National League initiates the DH ..."

Okay, ManRam is soon to make his debut in Dodger blue and as long as he doesn't take anything away from my favorite Dodger and doesn't disrespect the pitchers by watching a HR ball clear the fence, I will wish him the best to help my Dodgers this season.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
Jason Bay 0 fer 2 with a BB and 2 K's with a RUN Scored, BA .000 inauspicious start to say the least.

Not like Willie McCovey who hit the first pitch he saw as a SF Giant into the right field seats.

Maybe Manny's antics are looking more like how he kept himself loose so he could hit under pressure and not choke like Jason Bay is doing tonight.

JMO

Anyone judging a player's career on two at-bats is a dope. I'm thinking LL is a troll just trying to flame the board.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
TPM said: Chill out.

Just having some fun...

Everybody's been beating up on Manny and I have aways stood up for the underdog or the downtrodding. It just part of my nature as a Leo.

JMO

Manny isn't an underdog. He's a Hall of Fame hitter who turned into a dog by letting down his teammates.

My only question is did Boros plan this step by step. If so, Boros is a bigger dog than Ramirez. Boros stood to gain nothing for two years unless Ramirez got out of his contract. Boros thinks Manny can get a four year 100 mil contract. He's a star starting his decline. There's not a chance in the world he gets that kind of contract.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
TPM said: Chill out.

Just having some fun...

Everybody's been beating up on Manny and I have aways stood up for the underdog or the downtrodding. It just part of my nature as a Leo.

JMO

LL,
I am a HUGE Manny fan, I agree with aome things you have posted, and many things others have as well. I disagree with many of it as well.
However, don't go bashing a player (Bay) who had very little choice in this matter. You are doing the exact same thing that you accuse others of.

Thanks.

Watching the Dodgers' broadcast, apparently Manny is getting his braids cut to conform with Torre's rules. Good stuff.

RJM said: I'm thinking LL is a troll just trying to flame the board.

then RJM said: Boros is a bigger dog than Ramirez
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Talking about someone trying to get some attention...geez wonder what he calls his kids when he gets angry, maybe he 's one of those like Alec Baldwin. Next thing you know he'll be calling me "a little pig" instead of "a big pig". LOL

Or I guess you all could just go back singing cumbaya with RJM as the pied piper...ready and a-one, and a-two, and a-three....LOL

JMO

Jaaaaason Bayyyyy....triple in the bottom of the 12th. And....he scored 2 runs in a 2-1 12 inning win.

Welcome to the big stage (where the fans show up before the game and stay the til the end).

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
Jaaaaason Bayyyyy....triple in the bottom of the 12th. And....he scored 2 runs in a 2-1 12 inning win.

Welcome to the big stage (where the fans show up before the game and stay the til the end).

_______________________________________________________________________________

Only took the guy 12 innings to get a hit...

See what's it like to be unappreciated???

JMO

quote:

Only took the guy 12 innings to get a hit...

with 2 BB's and a HBP (Obviously, they pitched around him). Let's see, that gives him an OBP .667.

C'mon, you're the stat geek. You should recognize talent when you see it (if you can get the blinders off).

quote:

Originally posted by FutureBack.Mom:

Yesterday I heard something funny about the trade, and I thought it was during a mid-game interview between Vin Scully and Fred McCourt but I can't remember for sure ... but whoever was involved, the interviewer asked the guest about Joe Torre's thoughts on the subject of ManRam coming to LA, and the guest said "Torre is hoping the National League initiates the DH ..."

Now THAT'S classic!

He's going to do just fine in the Bay State. Not to mention a couple of nice defensive plays.

Manny who?

By the way, Manny is 0-1.

To quote LL: .000 inauspicious start to say the least.

Bay was 1 for 3 with two walks and a nice catch in left field with 2 runs scored. I'd say this was a nice start to his career with Boston. Maybe you should look at his OPS instead of saying it took him 12 innings to get a hit. Bay will do just fine in Boston - they might not even miss Manny. (They certainly won't miss Manny being Manny).

Well lets recap...Jason BGay knows how to play small ball...does the Bgayman know how the big boys do it in the AL, it's called


***************HOMERUN********************LOL

JMO

I'll quote you: What the owners and GMS don't understand it's not about them...it's about winning!

So, now it only counts if he hits a HR? We'll take the OBP and runs to go with above average defense to get those wins. We got enough power in the lineup to get there. Hopefully, we'll see those 8th place Dodgers. lol

LL, it must be close to your medication time.

wayback said: I'll quote you: What the owners and GMS don't understand it's not about them...it's about winning!

So, now it only counts if he hits a HR? We'll take the OBP and runs to go with above average defense to get those wins. We got enough power in the lineup to get there. Hopefully, we'll see those 8th place Dodgers. lol

LL, it must be close to your medication time.
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I agree with you wayback, the BGayman knows how to play small balls...

now he needs to show that he has the gonads to carry a team like Manny did with the AL currnecy of greatness, when Manny was being appreciated. You look at Manny's numbers and he's not that far off from Bonds...but Manny couldn't even get close with the money that Bonds made. Red Sox are one cheap organization.
and that's the way it is...I'm out!!
JMO

You haven't made sense all day. Why should you start now? Or, let facts get in the way?

Manny was loved. He was paid handsomely (in case you didn't notice...Bonds had one year over $20 mil and Manny had 3 years over $20 mil).

I should have known you would be wrong about that. You haven't been right on anything tonight. You even got bish slappped in another thread comparing college baseball to MiLB. Tough night for you. Carefull, it's a jungle out there.

And you're right...you're out (of your mind). At least you got that right.

BTW, did you notice, after Manny got his single (big ball?), he and Andruw Jones collaborating on a ball in left-center: "You get it"..."No, you get it". Meanwhile, Burke's racing around for a triple.

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
BTW, did you notice, after Manny got his single (big ball?), he and Andruw Jones collaborating on a ball in left-center: "You get it"..."No, you get it". Meanwhile, Burke's racing around for a triple.

Yeah, a triple that hit the dirt in the infield! Wait! Wait! There comes Manny...jogging by as the ball goes to the fence.

I especially like LL's "downtrodding" comment! Will someone please trod on me with $20 million?

Manny gone from Boston....there is a god!

I'm not going to argue with LL anymore. Morons drag you down to their level to defeat you.

Here's some karma. Bay triples and scores the game winning run. Manny hits into a game ending double play with the tying run on second. Does this mean Bay is a better hitter than Manny. Of course not!

Manny did some good things for the Sox before wearing out his welcome. It was time for him to go. Bay was the best replacement available. Bay is only replacing Manny in the field. Mike Lowell is replacing Manny in the #4 hole. Lowell is a clutch hitter. He's not Manny. But he's a pro.

From the OC Register today (8/2), Torre on 'Manny being Manny':

quote:

Manny being Manny? Joe Torre obviously has a different perspective than that of Boston Red Sox Manager Terry Francona or General Manager Theo Epstein...

It’s a matter of angles, though, their view point.

‘’Well, you’re asking somebody who had to watch him 19 times a year plus playoffs. … He’s scary – that’s being Manny being Manny,’’ Torre said ...

I'll bet Torre considered him scary, Mannny just being Manny.
Will be interesting to see how he does as a rent a player, my bets he'll be DH in pinstripes next season.
I know it's hard for us to understand all of this, why players act the way they do and sometimes see behavior as self serving. I would suspect when you get to Manny status you could pull it off, but the frustration level when expectations are so high for some must be over bearing.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/padres/2008/jul/...left-hand-fractured/

I take my hat off to Boston for saying enough is enough. I wish more teams would do it and they might get some respect.
I hear the Boston fans are happy with Bay so far. He may just step up his game.

tpm

they did way better than renting him. the sox pay him for the rest of the season. so he's a freebie,not bad.

Batting Statistics - So Far So Good
NAME...............GP..AB.R.H.2B.3B.HR..TB.RBI.BB.SO..SB..CS…BA…...OBP ..SLG…. OPS
MannyRamirez.....2...8...2.4…0….0...1…..7….2….0…1…..0….0 ..500 ….500 ....875… 1.375

NAME..........GP.AB…R..H…2B..3B.HR.TB..RBI.BB.SO..SB..CS…BA…OBP….SLG…..OPS
Jason Bay.....2 …7… 4…2… 0… 1…1…7…..3…..3….3….0….0….286….545…1.000…1.545

Source: MLB Team sites

Ramirez power rating ahead by a hair at this point.
Bay overall production ahead of Ramirez
JMO

quote:

Batting Statistics - So Far So Good
NAME...............GP..AB.R.H.2B.3B.HR..TB.RBI.BB.SO..SB..CS…BA…...OBP ..SLG…. OPS
MannyRamirez.....2...8...2.4…0….0...1…..7….2….0…1…..0….0 ..500 ….500 ....875… 1.375

NAME..........GP.AB…R..H…2B..3B.HR.TB..RBI.BB.SO..SB..CS…BA…OBP….SLG…..OPS
Jason Bay.....2 …7… 4…2… 0… 1…1…7…..3…..3….3….0….0….286….545…1.000…1.545

Source: MLB Team sites

Ramirez power rating ahead by a hair at this point.
Bay overall production ahead of Ramirez
JMO

LL

Looks like this will go the way of the 5 tool argument. lol

LL, what is the power rating?
How is Manny's better?

lol

Let me post my argument now (I'll be at the field today)....

Slugging: Bay is ahead 1.000 to .875
OPS: Bay is ahead 1.545 to 1.375

Bay has one less at-bat, the same total bases (HR and 3B to HR and three 1B).

Again, in the long run, Bay is not Manny's statistical placement. Manny is historical. But, you want to seem trying to make that comparison. Whatever......eventually, you're going to be right. I'm guessing in 3 years, you won't be (remember Manny wanted a 4 or 5 year contract...he will be a DH by then....Ortiz?). But, who cares? The trade was about the intangibles (hustle, reliability, saving pitch counts, and most likely chemistry.)

Let's just say, if you are a Dodgers fan, you should be happy to have Manny, and we are happy to have whoever we have in left field.

The clubhouse is a better place as it was in 2004 when Nomar was moved. That is the intangible management was seeking.

As a final note, the local stations reported that at the last minute, Boras called Epstien and said if the Sox agreed to not trade Manny and not pick up the options that Manny would not be trouble the rest of the year. That is an indication that his acts of defiance in the last weeks were intentional, and that the Sox were right in not wanting to go the distance with him. Ultimately, Boras is the villain here (he may do the best for his clients, but his tactics are despicable. Unfortunately, he knows his client may be disliked where he left, but cheers and bigger money await in some new town).

Calculating the power rating of a batter

Step1 Consider that isolated power is defined as Slugging Percentage minus Batting Average.

Step2 Determine slugging percentage: Add a player's singles plus 2 times doubles plus 3 times triples plus 4 times home runs. Divide this number by the player's at bats. Or: (Singles + (2*Doubles) + (3*Triples) + (4*Home Runs)) / At Bats.

Step3 Determine batting average divide a player's at bat total from his hit total, or Hits/At Bats.

Step4 Calculate Isolated Power by subtracting batting average from slugging percentage.


Ramirez .875-.500 = .375
Bay 1.000-.286 = .714

As you can see for times at bat Ramirez is slightly ahead of Bay in power by 33%/AB

How to calculate-isolated-power-baseball

Ok, back from BP.

So, a guy who is 4-4 with 4 HR's has a Slugging % of 4.000 and a batting average of 1.000.

4.000 (SP) minus 1.000 (BA) is 3.000 (IP).

A guy who is 1-4 with a HR has a SP of 1.000 and BA of .250. Or, an IP OF .750.

Your logic of .750 says he's better than the 3.000 guy.

I'm thinking a high number is better than a low number.

quote:

Originally posted by wayback:
Ok, back from BP.

So, a guy who is 4-4 with 4 HR's has a Slugging % of 4.000 and a batting average of 1.000.

4.000 (SP) minus 1.000 (BA) is 3.000 (IP).

A guy who is 1-4 with a HR has a SP of 1.000 and BA of .250. Or, an IP OF .750.

Your logic of .750 says he's better than the 3.000 guy.

I'm thinking a high number is better than a low number.

_____________________________________________________________________________

It's the difference (minus) per AB in number of times to generate a power hit.

Remember it took Bay 12 innings before he got his first hit.

What we are looking for here is the difference in in power intervals as a per cent of a batters total AB's between ABs, and that will tell you how protigious a batter is.

Bay is ahead of Ramirez in production if you want to use the .714 to justify that argument.

It would be like a pitcher's ERA the more efficient he is the lower his ERA. Same for a batter...the more efficient he is with his AB's between power hits makes his interval lower and his power rating higher.

Wouldn't most statisticians consider these samples way too small to even consider at this point?

I may never be a ManRam fan, but if he can help the Dodgers, more power to him. He is a tough act to read but he says he loves being a Dodger, and admits to still being 'nervous', so perhaps he has some redeeming social value ...

Statistical significance and practical importance are not equivalent concepts.

The sample unit count can be to small to provide a reliable answer which would create an error rate for a sample to produce a completely unreliable answer and and be insignficant to what you are looking for.

See, I earlier said you are an intelligent guy. Either that or the best BS guy around. lol

Good job. You've lost/confused me either way.

(Maybe if you use my 4-4 guy and 1-4 guy and break it down for me with specific numbers I'll learn something new and tip my hat to you...said in sincerity....you've gone over my head.).


Off to the HR derby.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
Statistical significance and practical importance are not equivalent concepts.

The sample unit count can be to small to provide a reliable answer which would create an error rate for a sample to produce a completely unreliable answer and and be insignficant to what you are looking for.

Okay, if you say so ...

Is this thread going to go on for two months? Let's make it easy and end it. Bay is a very good hitter. Ramirez is a HOF hitter. Ramirez created his situation and had to go. Both the Sox and Dodgers appear to be pleased with the moves.

RJM said: Is this thread going to go on for two months? Let's make it easy and end it. Bay is a very good hitter. Ramirez is a HOF hitter. Ramirez created his situation and had to go. Both the Sox and Dodgers appear to be pleased with the moves
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LOL, RJM, is the voice in "The Ten Commandments" thou shalt not write another word which is driving me crazy!!!! Thus saith the Lord?

My response....AAAAmen, let us hear no further from thus saith, like RJM...LOL

JMO

quote:

Is this thread going to go on for two months?

There are 50+ forums, some with thousands of threads of which some last for years. Feel free to skip this one unless OCD has got a hold on you or you're in charge of paying for bandwidth.

BTW, Manny is a triple short of the cycle.

I'm going to say that stats don't win games but results do.

Since the trade

Boston 3 - 0
LA 1 - 1 and winning in the 7th inning as of this.

So I would say both teams are doing just fine from the trade. Let's give it more time to fully see.