Minor League Poverty

A drafted player does not have to sign. A free agent can negotiate with all 30 teams.
And yes there are many who are waitingin the wings for the job and that is why it is what it is.

Our society has made a political choice: employers, absent specific circumstances, must pay a minimum wage.

 

Period, end of story.

 

Employers occasionally try to circumvent the law (recent intern wages cases are examples). (And, in those recent intern cases, there were many potential "interns" lined up to take the place of those who dared to say no to working for free/below minimum wage.) 

 

I am looking forward to baseball trying to squeeze itself into the "seasonal" exception. Can't wait to hear them explain how a "seasonal" business can drug test its employees months after the season ends, make players head to mini-camps, instructional ball (no wages, just room, some board, and  a per diem), etc., and still be seasonal.

 

The amount we're talking about is not great: assume a team has six U.S. based minor league teams. Assume each team has 35 players (actually from full season A on, rosters are 25). Assume that AAA is paying more then minimum wage, and is therefore paying appropriate wages. But also assume that there are 35 more players in extended spring. Thus, there are roughly 210 players who need to be paid minimum wage. Assume that the players work 60 hours per week (bus rides, etc). That's 20 overtime hours. For ease of math assume $8/hr wage ($12/hr overtime). So, each week should bring in ($8 x 40) + ($12 x $20)= $560/wk. Assume a season of work lasts from March 1 until September 2 (roughly 27 weeks). A season's pay is 27 x $560= $15120. The player is currently receiving roughly $6600. So, roughly $8500 shortfall. $8500 x 210 players = $1,785,000 per team. Thirty teams x $1,785,000 = $53,550,000. About .6% of MLB revenue.

 

A drop in the bucket. And, it's not as if the players will take the money and burn or bury it in the backyard. The players will plow that money right into the communities where they are based.

 

We, as a society, decided that a minimum wage was needed - in most jobs - not just the crappy ones no one wants.

11 of the 30 teams lose money.  Are you going to fork over their $1.7 mil each?  How big is your bucket?  Maybe Mother Jones can pay it.

If only.  There are quite a few folks in congress who would happily vote to repeal the minimum wage laws.

They "lose" money - according to them; yet franchises are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Accountants can do wonders.

 

I'm also not going to cut you a check for social security - but that has nothing to do with whether you are legally entitled to that money.

 

I was unaware of the "you must make a profit" exception to the minimum wage laws.

I'd like to know what is included in the revenue numbers for this list.  I seriously doubt the Yankees are losing $9 million a year.  Those numbers must not include TV or merchandising money.  There is no way the Yankees are worth $2.5 billion when they are losing money every year.  And the Dodgers losing almost $81 million a year and they are still worth $2 billion???  I have a feeling if you add in all money (not just operational money) these numbers will look a lot different.

 

 

This really doesn't address the issue.  If you think it does, please explain.

 

 Hmmmm???  OK, but I wonder just how many equally qualified for the job are waiting in the wings?    

 

So, looking beyond the obvious, there's more to it than including those who don't have the skills or talent the industry looks for. huh?

 

 

If my accounting firm along with other accounting firms could create an "accounting graduate draft" where accounting graduates had to work 4 seasons for us before they are eligible to change firms, we'd could save a lot of money with really low pay and we wouldn't have to pay them to get training during the off season However accountants don't have a draft and accounting firms can't force them to sign 4 year  conrtacts,,  so accounting firms have to be competitive with pay starting the first day, 

 

MLB doesn't have to worry about MiLB players leaving for other teams, so they can pay whatever they want as the player has very little leverage. Do away with the draft and standard minor contract tying players to teams and the pay will increase substantially.  Yes there are lots of players willing to take the place of any MiLB player for free or less, however most don't have the skill to be competitive at that level.,

 

.. 

One thing I do have to say not all teams are created equal.
So before you sign on the dotted line do your homework...just like you did when your son accepted an offer to play at college.

I know the one thing I see written a lot is there are many waiting to take their places? Really? I mean give the players that are there some credit they were chosen because someone scouted them and believed they had skills.

 

Not to be insulting to anyone but the general public really has no idea about minor league baseball.

Fan, you don't think there are thousands of HS and college players that didn't get drafted that would be happy to sign to have the chance to make it to the MLB?  There are A LOT of very good ball players out there willing to take a chance that didn't get drafted. I'm not talking about general population people. I'm talking about good HS players and college seniors that didn't get drafted for some reason.

There are around 1280 players drafted. There are around 13,500 college seniors. Maybe not all of them want to play baseball for a living, but I'm sure there is a pretty big pool of players who would be willing to take that chance.

I am going with fanofgame on this one.   Most people have no clue about milb.

TPM, you obviously know a lot more about the MiLB game than most. But don't you think that the pool of college seniors could, and would if they had the opportunity, fill a good number of those late draft rounds?  You've said yourself that there will always be guys willing to fill in if some guys decided to not to sign because of the money.

Stop it bballman you're giving me flashbacks of 1995 and the "Replacement Players". Gosh, that was awful.  

I am not a scout but I will give my opinion.
A college senior unless one of the top in the country would be signing for very little money. Chances are he would be one of the oldest on his team.
Where do you think at what level he would begin his career?

       
       

Haha. I loved that movie!!

       
       

Aren't ALL the lower round draft choices signed for very little money?  And it doesn't have to be college seniors. I was just using that group as an example of a big pool of players that are not part of the "general population" fan was talking about. Add in the HS seniors and college juniors to the mix and I think if everyone in the last 10+ rounds of bye draft decided not to sign, there would be enough guys to fill those spots. Would every one of those guys be as good as the ones that were actually drafted?  Probably not. But there also may be some guys in there that wind up turning out better than the guys who were originally selected and didn't sign.

I'm just agreeing with the point that you and PG and others have made that there are plenty of guys waiting in the wings to take the spots of guys if they decide not to sign because they don't like the money. And I'm saying that they aren't just kids out of the "general population". A lot of them are pretty good ball players.

I am not really understanding your point.
People complaining about milb pay. What does that have to do with college seniors?
You didnt answer my question. Where do you think those seniors will be placed?

First of all, my point is that maybe MiLB players are not paid that much because of the over abundance of players that are willing to take their spot (ie a big labor force).

As far as where they'd be placed - I suppose they'd be placed at the same level as anyone else in that draft spot would be placed. I'm guessing rookie ball or low A. I really don't know the system well enough to say for sure. Not sure why they would be placed anywhere other than where their counterpart would have been placed if they'd signed.

As I said in a previous post, I'm sort of conflicted about the whole thing. Free market vs some kind of legislated or unionized minimum wage scenario. So, in weighing the options I sort of thought out loud that maybe wages are so low because of the large pool of players willing to take that spot, therefore they really are getting paid what the market will allow. Hope that makes more sense to you.

Truman ,
Free agents can sign with any team that is interested and usually that is the one paying them the bigger bonus and where they will be placed. Free agents include those not drafted as well as milb players released or out of contract.
Tell me you dont get that?
My entire point is that poverty in milb isnt as bad as it sounds.

I think you are right. The philosophy is if you dont want the job then we will give it to someone else. That has definetly created a win win situation for mlb.

Skip to the 3:13 mark.  Fallon nails it.

 

bballman,

 

Yes there are good players that go undrafted. My son went undrafted after doing well in a top conference. He signed a s a free agent.

 

I just don't think it is as easy as many think to just plug in kids. I think your underestimating some of the talent in the lower levels.

 

It is hard in the minor leagues, it takes more than most know even when there is a lot of talent.

 

I am not trying to be disrespectful to you but many parents think players are good, and they may be good, but they may not be good enough.

I understand what you're saying fanofgame. There's no doubt every player selected in the draft has tremendous talent. But do you really think there is THAT much difference in talent between say pick #s 1200-1280 and 1281-1360?  That's not meant to be a disrespectful, rhetorical question. Do you think the pool would be that much watered down by those next 80 guys playing?

No probably not .The lower rounds are mainly fillers. Some make it but its tough.

Even if others can fill those spots, they too would deserve more money as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To those saying that minor leaguers deserve more money… How much do they deserve, and why do they deserve that amount?

 

 

 

Just a SWAG, because now that this is what I do for a living (financial analysis,) I will bet my annual salary that not a single MLB corporation loses money. This isn't profit, this is operating income, which means that this is before any tax benefits. I'd be willing to bet that those franchises which "lost money" during 2013 actually did a slate of capital projects that allowed them to show an IOI loss to improve their financial standing in upcoming years as well as maximize tax advantages.

 

A corporation doesn't lose money unless it is happening year over year.

Yes, I get it.  BUT. . . .the issue is not about bonuses, particularly because this is about those who don't get signing bonuses or not enough of a signing bonus to meet basic living expenses and must depend on charity from family or other outside sources while they work. 

 

 . . . . not for those who manage to get enough of a bonus to offset the dismal base salary or for those who have family wealthy enough to sustain them.

I think "deserve" is the wrong term when addressing the issues over minimum wage.

 

Do workers at McDonalds or Walmart "deserve" their minimum wage when they're first hired?   Minimum wage is to keep employers from exploiting their workers to the extent that workers can not afford their basic living needs.

 

I'm a bit surprised by the lack of empathy and compassion the young men struggling financially in minor league that seems to emanate from so many here.

 

+1

 

Not feeling bad for a person because they chose what they got into, and then making a statement that they deserve to get paid more, is a contradiction and makes no sense. 

 

I agree with you that "deserve" is the wrong term, but it's the term being used. My question is, for the folks here in this discussion, what is an appropriate wage scale, in your opinion?

 

 

And if you hire people under the age of 19, they'd be bound to you for 5 years. AND, they'll still be bound to your firm's policies after that 4 or 5 years unless another accounting firm wants them, in which case they can be drafted once again…eliminating their ability to leverage their skills while continuing to abide by a non-negotiable wage scale with the new firm. AND, if they do get drafted and the new firm doesn't like them as much as initially expected, they can be returned to you (and the continued non-negotiable wage scale) without any consultation or notice.

 

Sign me up!

 

In all of the years son was in milb I never heard of anyone that he knew who struggled financially while in milb.Not even about the latins struggling.  You certainly need to learn how to budget your spending but if you have been to college you already know that from mom and dad. All in all, I only look upon it as a learning experience.
Can you give examples of anyone you know who struggled?

BTW the idea is not to spend too much time in milb so you do not have to struggle.  After  4 years if you have not been picked up on the 40 man roster or had a nice bonus to keep you going most players have moved on or been released.

 

 

Sorry, TPM…going to disagree with you on this one. These two posts contradict each other.

 

First off, yes, I know several players that struggle financially in the minor leagues, especially players from Latin America.

 

Second off, the very concept you outlined - that a time limit is rudimentary to the professional baseball process - implies a financial burden that players struggle to overcome outside of that small period of time. The fact that full-time employment fundamentally prohibits employees from sustaining basic living needs for an extended period of time is an issue that is directly tied to the current wage structure of Minor League Baseball.

 

When two groups that are exempt from anti-trust laws collectively bargain a revenue sharing model that doesn't include a demographic of people directly impacted by the results of the agreement, such distorted wages occur. 

 

Beyond the stipulations of the CBA and the process of a potential MiLB unionization, the theoretical question is:

 

What would be the appropriate salary for a Minor League player?

 

I believe this question goes beyond federally regulated minimum wage, and goes beyond tangible profits generated directly by each minor league affiliate. A wide-scale study combining the cost of a farm system, combined with the resulting average success of a prospect at the Major League level, would probably be the only way to properly value a Minor League player. Even then, as profit margins change nearly daily at the Major League level, it'd be tough to pin down an appropriate figure. 

 

 

I agree an appropriate figure would be hard to come by.
What struggling have you seen tell me? I remember hearing about the struggling when son was in high A. The kids were out getting drunk every night! 
The latins struggle is because they send money back home but that is a whole other issue and discussion for another day.
Anyone in milb after 4-5 years struggling needs to move on.
Sorry but I dont have the empathy that others do.  The odds will never be in a milb players favor.

I am willing to bet as a first year scout you get paid not enough for the hours you put in. 
Do you get paid the extra hours when you have to fly or drive distance?

Definition of deserve: to do something worthy of reward or punishment, merit

I believe the players deserve more than they are getting. Im not saying I feel sorry for their choice. And those that get bonuses have it easier. I am not a player I am an observer. But when many have to pay rent, play clubbie dues, buy equipment. Guys with big bonuses get a lot of stuff free.Its hard to make it.

 

Minimum wage would be a good start,

I will just agree to disagree with those that think they shouldnt.  I get that guys choose it and many love it but many do quit or retire.

To say you have never heard of anyone struggling or complaining is kind of a wide brush. I have heard of many who struggle financially.

I agree with Truman .

And also those that say basically put up with it or quit you choose it ? I just disagree.

I also disagree when people say they just dont love it enough if they dont like the way the pay structure is.

 

 

I agree it is much easier for those with bonuses. 
The bonus does not guarantee the player will make it.  But it does place a value on how the team views  you amongst your peers and willing to invest in your development.
I feel badly for the latins as I feel they are exploited.
I do not feel badly for the later pick who gets a small bonus.  Its his choice to understand and to sign or not sign.

I agree it is their choice but I think the current system takes advantage of the dream of these young men.

 

 

I agree with an earlier comment  made as why Latin's are easier to deal with as they are happy to be there as the alternative is poverty.

 

The American players have educations to fall back on.

 

Nobody asked you to feel sorry for them. That comment is repeated over and over. Just because a group of people want change doesn't mean they want you to feel sorry for them.