I haven't figured out the purpose of fall instruction. Can someone explain?
Mine hasn't played, so he can use the work. But pitchers are tired and position players exhausted.
Most of the players (newly drafted) have been playing since February.
It's a chance for players to be seen by the higher up's.
You know the people that actually make the decision on weather a player moves on to the next level are not??
Front office people Draft Players they have never seen with there own eye's. They take the word of there scout's.
This is a chance for players to be seen by those front office people.
JMO
EH
You know the people that actually make the decision on weather a player moves on to the next level are not??
Front office people Draft Players they have never seen with there own eye's. They take the word of there scout's.
This is a chance for players to be seen by those front office people.
JMO
EH
All the players have been playing since Feb. 
Instructional league is just that, Instruction and practice.
Instructional league is just that, Instruction and practice.
There is also a lot of scouting done by the other teams.
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
It's a chance for players to be seen by the higher up's.
You know the people that actually make the decision on weather a player moves on to the next level are not??
Front office people Draft Players they have never seen with there own eye's. They take the word of there scout's.
This is a chance for players to be seen by those front office people.
JMO
EH
Ok that makes sense. Thanks.
A friend's son was sent to the AFL in an attempt to learn how to catch. After a couple of weeks he decided it was safer being the goalie on a grenade throwing team. So did the parent club. So did the pitchers he caught.quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I haven't figured out the purpose of fall instruction. Can someone explain?
Mine hasn't played, so he can use the work. But pitchers are tired and position players exhausted.
Most of the players (newly drafted) have been playing since February.
Another's friends son was sent to learn a better change. He was told not to worry about stats, just keep throwing it.
Players who have been sitting out with injuries like yours, are another type.
quote:A friend's son was sent to the AFL in an attempt to learn how to catch. After a couple of weeks he decided it was safer being the goalie on a grenade throwing team. So did the parent club. So did the pitchers he caught.
Another's friends son was sent to learn a better change. He was told not to worry about stats, just keep throwing it.
Players who have been sitting out with injuries like yours, are another type.
TG,
Are you sure you mean the Arizona Fall League “AFL”? They play 6 games a week starting in early Oct until the middle of November. Typically it is not a place for a lot of instruction, or learning a new position, but rather a place where clubs send their best minor league prospects. A large number are going to play in the Big Leagues, the league is full of top propsects. Seems they would send a player they want to learn a new position to a different setting. While there might be some instruction, the league is not an instructional type thing. The players are from different clubs as are the coaches.
Everyone plays different places depending on where the team has their main training facility, as far as I know it is usually in Florida or Arizona for most teams, not sure of other locations. I know some get confused with Fall Instux in Arizona with the AZL or AFL.
Maybe that is where the confusion lies for TG?
Maybe that is where the confusion lies for TG?
There are a number of different reasons for a player being assigned to Fall Instrux.
The most important and common one is to give careful and almost one on one coaching to the players involved. Most clubs have their entire minor league coaching staff present. With around 30 players assigned, each player is getting very careful instruction and oversight on changes or improvements that can be made for them to improve parts of the game necessary to move to the next level.
BTW, I think TG, and some others, have been welcome additions to the HSBBW. They know baseball and want to find out ways for their son to matriculate through high school and beyond.
The most important and common one is to give careful and almost one on one coaching to the players involved. Most clubs have their entire minor league coaching staff present. With around 30 players assigned, each player is getting very careful instruction and oversight on changes or improvements that can be made for them to improve parts of the game necessary to move to the next level.
BTW, I think TG, and some others, have been welcome additions to the HSBBW. They know baseball and want to find out ways for their son to matriculate through high school and beyond.
It was the AFL. They were both prospects. One had just hit .300 in a half year of AAA but was behind a player who is now an NL all-star at third. The theory was learning to catch got him out from behind the all-star or made him a more valuable utility player. He's not quick enough to be an every day middle infielder in the majors. he spent the first couple of weeks in the bullpen warming up pitchers while getting instruction during the day. It didn't take long to determine he wasn't a catcher. He's now in another organization. The other was a pitcher moving up to AA but needed to learn a change.quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:TG,quote:A friend's son was sent to the AFL in an attempt to learn how to catch. After a couple of weeks he decided it was safer being the goalie on a grenade throwing team. So did the parent club. So did the pitchers he caught.
Another's friends son was sent to learn a better change. He was told not to worry about stats, just keep throwing it.
Players who have been sitting out with injuries like yours, are another type.
Are you sure you mean the Arizona Fall League “AFL”? They play 6 games a week starting in early Oct until the middle of November. Typically it is not a place for a lot of instruction, or learning a new position, but rather a place where clubs send their best minor league prospects. A large number are going to play in the Big Leagues, the league is full of top propsects. Seems they would send a player they want to learn a new position to a different setting. While there might be some instruction, the league is not an instructional type thing. The players are from different clubs as are the coaches.
Now that players have reported to fall instructs Do they find that the bonus babies are treated any different than the lower round players ?
njbb,
Cards have 61 in attendence, as far as I know they all get room and board.
Cards have 61 in attendence, as far as I know they all get room and board.
Of course that yes!
Big Bonuses players have their attendance at instructional league for grandted at least their first year. The low drafted players have to gain their entrance ticket by them self and some times takes more than a season.
Big Bonuses players have their attendance at instructional league for grandted at least their first year. The low drafted players have to gain their entrance ticket by them self and some times takes more than a season.
In Arizona there is the Fall Instructional league which starts now until mid late Oct.
Used for lower league Prospect instruction.
And then the Arizona Fall League for top Prospects, Starting in Oct. thru Nov.
Used for lower league Prospect instruction.
And then the Arizona Fall League for top Prospects, Starting in Oct. thru Nov.
Didn't see Bonus amounts listed as a stat on the rosters for Instructional League. From what I have heard about Instructional League, if the "bonus babies" carried any weight at all they would opt out of this ASAP.
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
From what I have heard about Instructional League, if the "bonus babies" carried any weight at all they would opt out of this ASAP.
I agree.
I still haven't figured out Instructional League, not that I have a lot of information other than breakfast, field workouts, stretching, games, late lunch. Same thing all over again the next day.
The one thing I do understand is that it's important if there is to be player movement in spring and elimination of players. The bonus guys aren't going anywhere too quickly, so why does it benefit them more?
My understanding is that the brass agreed to draft these guys high, but probably hasn't seen them perform much, if at all. Fall Instructional is their chance to check their investments.
Further, the entire minor league coaching staff is there, so the additional help could be intensive. Pitchers can work on new pitches, a player may learn a new position (they like his bat, but they're short at a spot), a guy is given the chance to work on a hole in his game when the rest of the package looks pretty good.
The scrutiny, at the same time, could also be intensive ---- did we get what we "paid for"?
Further, the entire minor league coaching staff is there, so the additional help could be intensive. Pitchers can work on new pitches, a player may learn a new position (they like his bat, but they're short at a spot), a guy is given the chance to work on a hole in his game when the rest of the package looks pretty good.
The scrutiny, at the same time, could also be intensive ---- did we get what we "paid for"?
To me instructional league is just that....instruction. Special help in certain area, learn a new position, pitch and practice and more practice... during the season there isnt as much time to work on things
I know the brass does travel during the season to see players and the real scutiny comes for the non prospects in the spring.
I know the brass does travel during the season to see players and the real scutiny comes for the non prospects in the spring.
Instructional league is mainly comprised of the organizations top players that are early in their professional careers (1st/2nd yr usually not always)....It is indeed a chance for the rovers, a few coaches and farm directors to see newly obtained players (via the draft or trades) and for players who need to hone a skill or who are changing positions.....the entire minor league coaching staffs are usually not there....it is the rovers and a few of the minor league staff to run the games......obviously the farm director and/or field coordinator will be there and possibly anyone else from the org that wants to attend or pop in (ie. GM or Scouting Dir)....Like spring training but for around 40 players.......workout in the morning then game in the afternoon....sunday is usually off......
Scouts from other organizations also come to watch the games..thats how my son met bbscout.
Absolutely scouts come to the games.......and sometimes the scout schools bring their students to the instructs games and use the games to teach prospective scouts........
Interesting, sort of goes along with the advice that they're "playing for all 30 clubs".
Why just 1st & 2nd years? Do the clubs arrange/encourage winter ball for players beyond that, or do they prefer the time to be used for rest and personal workouts?
Why just 1st & 2nd years? Do the clubs arrange/encourage winter ball for players beyond that, or do they prefer the time to be used for rest and personal workouts?
Not only for 1st and 2nd year players....they just make up the majority.......Farm directors will invite anyone they wish........be it to work on a particular skill, just aquired in a trade, wrapping up rehab, learning a new position, getting acclimated to pro ball (1st year player) etc... there are many reasons to bring a player to Instructional League....and yes, player development is not only to develop players that can help your own big league club someday but by developing a player, that player may help the club aquire talent via a trade to help the big league club....
encourage and arrange winter ball for some indeed......winter ball players are older and will usually come from AA, AAA and big league teams.....
Some clubs will hold a mini camp in Jan. to give players a jump start on start on spring training...
Lots of work goes in to developing players. If you get the opportunity to watch what goes on in pro ball it is amazing the time and money that is involved with producing a MLB team.
Lots of work goes in to developing players. If you get the opportunity to watch what goes on in pro ball it is amazing the time and money that is involved with producing a MLB team.
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
Lots of work goes in to developing players. If you get the opportunity to watch what goes on in pro ball it is amazing the time and money that is involved with producing a MLB team.
We tend to complain about the lousy pay that minor leaguers make, however I am realizing the above statment is definetly true.
First thanks for all of teh above info, I got to see DK and he had a chance to tell us about his experience. He seems to be enjoying, two prepared meals a day, nice pocket change for dinners, comfy accomodations, not much to complain about. He is back on the mound and when not in a game, either charting pitches, radar gun, bucket duty, field work. His bull pen is with the pitching director and working on things that he requested to work on. The Marlins have left, so today they went to play the St. Lucie Mets, but got rained out and tomorrow up to Viera to play the Nationals.
The coaches consist of the minor league managers and some of their staff. Day begins at 7:45 and ends around 5 when home and later if they travel, 7 days a week. If they had to do field work they get to leave a bit earlier than others. There are 60 players in all (30 pitchers, 30 position guys), 20 from the Dominican League (16,17 year olds) and they are required to take english class in the mornings. DK says the non floridians have more adjustment to make than the latin players, South Florida has more spanish influence and the heat, and humidity is tough if you are not used to it. His spanish is improving.
The best part, for him, is that he is learning how to bunt, had a tough time at first but can now lay it down pretty well. He loves it. He is close by and we love that too!
I hope for those of you that have players in fall instruction, that they are enjoying it as much as mine is. I have a clearer understanding and it's a great experience.
Since February:
550 At Bats
140 games
85 Stolen bases
Then he goes to instructionals and hurts his elbow. LOL
So much for instructionals.
550 At Bats
140 games
85 Stolen bases
Then he goes to instructionals and hurts his elbow. LOL
So much for instructionals.
iitg,
Sounds familiar, like pitching all season and spraining foot while fixin' bike.
We feel your pain and D's. Join the parents of pro players in rehab group.
What's the deal? Is he ok?
Sounds familiar, like pitching all season and spraining foot while fixin' bike.
We feel your pain and D's. Join the parents of pro players in rehab group.
What's the deal? Is he ok?
TPM,
Thanks for asking T - He will be OK.
Just not the way to end a very enjoyable 2007 baseball year.
Thanks for asking T - He will be OK.
Just not the way to end a very enjoyable 2007 baseball year.
Its sorry to hear about that. Let us know what the diagnosis and prognosis are.
Bummer! Keep us posted, its. At least he has a nice long stretch to heal.
Send him our best thoughts.
Send him our best thoughts.
Fall instruction ended today and so did my sons first season as a professional. Not much of a season doing rehab but his first season nonetheless.
A few things to mention. I noticed that my son is looking a bit more like those pitchers on TV. Broader shoulders, more definition, huge calves and legs are not so lanky. Amazing how much time it does take, he's been working on it for three years but really seeing a difference now. Takes a lot of time and effort, that's for sure!
I finally saw him in Cardinal Red yesterday.
For those parents of players who pitch continually and those who feel you should not stop throwing, pitchers are instructed not to pick up a ball until January, time for complete rest, workout and conditioning only.
A few things to mention. I noticed that my son is looking a bit more like those pitchers on TV.
Broader shoulders, more definition, huge calves and legs are not so lanky. Amazing how much time it does take, he's been working on it for three years but really seeing a difference now. Takes a lot of time and effort, that's for sure! I finally saw him in Cardinal Red yesterday.
For those parents of players who pitch continually and those who feel you should not stop throwing, pitchers are instructed not to pick up a ball until January, time for complete rest, workout and conditioning only.
Congrats to all the boys and parents on their quest for "the show"...and thanks for sharing there journey with us. This thread should go "golden."
Oh, I forgot, lots of "trades" going on in fall instruction.
PCP's for gloves, turf shoes for ipods, Cd's for college shirts, those type of trades.
PCP's for gloves, turf shoes for ipods, Cd's for college shirts, those type of trades.
One more week to go for Matt.
I have learned a lot by watching though.
For our family and son, it has been an unbelievably positive experience.
It seems strange to say, but the A's have been, are, and would be in a more normal industry, a great place to work.
Matt's first call came through not long after arriving at the A's minor league facilities.
"Dad, this is just unbelievable."
Somewhat dreading the first day, with anticipation like any first day of practice, a practice was scheduled for the afternoon of the day of arrival.
"Practice" was a brief meeting, got paid, and told what time to arrive the next morning.
"Not too bad, dad."
Matt's summer coach is in charge of catchers, so Matt has been "ahead" of the other catchers because his coach had already been working with him as they played their summer schedule.
First day, or two, as I recall, were "Relationships With Umpires 101". Introduce yourself before the start of the game and establish a first name basis, tell the ump who is pitching today and the types of pitches that he can expect to see. Expect him to hit the corners and I'll be catching the ball to take advantage of that and not trying to show you up. With runners on second, I'll be setting up late so that the pitch is not given away. We have a runner on first, so you might want to anticipate a throw down to second or a pick-off at first.
Fascinating to me at the details involved.
They have a meeting every morning, drills, then a game, and if not in the game, more drills, hitting, or bullpens.
It's really hot in AZ so they weigh in before practice and after practice to monitor water loss.
For Matt, about 8-10 pounds difference everyday.
He said the first day of practice he grabbed a cup of ice water and kinda kept testing the taste. looked at the trainer, and, said, "That has fresh squeezed lemons in it". "Yes, it does"
A fine for forgetting to weigh out.
They have breakfast and lunch in the clubhouse everyday.
After catching a game (only 3-4 innings ususally per day) after practice, an up to the chin soak in a hot tub, then alternate in 60 degree water to help their legs recover. (That 60 degree water up to the chin really bothers me)
Most companies invest in the training of their employees, but not like the A's, and the other major league teams.
They flew 38 boys and maybe a dozen coaches in from all of the country. The boys are paid similar to their minor league contract amounts.
I've been to spring training facilities in Florida. I always enjoyed the immaculate fields and wondered why there were so many. I just figured it was because of the number of players. It is, but extra fields allow them to use an a entire field to hit, work the outfield, or the left or right side of the infield, all at the same time.
Another example of how they invest in their future players.
They are efficient at practice the way some companies are efficient in their business.
They make great use of their time, facilities, and use their personnel wisely.
He has received a lot of training related to the mental aspect of the game. Learning to deal with failure, for example.
The most impressive thing to me is the continual positive reinforcement and encouragement that he has received. It is an environment that I prefer and attempt to create in the company where I work. I don't know for sure, but I think it is very likely that atmosphere has to be created from the top down.
For the catchers, one of the drills that they have done is to catch foul balls. Shouldn't be too surprising. But, the way it is done fascinated me.
They use the machine to fire five balls out of sight into the air, sprayed from one dugout to the other. Another ball is fired as the previous ball starts down.
The have to find and catch all five of them. If you ask me, that's practice.
The intereting thing to me was that he said we were laughing and having fun doing it. (With all that equipment on and 108-110 degrees)
The pitching machine is also setup 45 feet away and they catch and frame pitches at the equivalent of about 110 MPH. (Hellaious overtraining if you ask me)
I think they have blocked balls for an hour everyday.
Contrasted by the pitchers (his roomates, they have an apartment that they pay for) that have the day off after they throw and don't travel with the team to play the next day, so they play golf all day. (and make more money)
They have tweaked hitting techniques and worked on calling the games.
He has missed two days of practice.
He was graciously allowed to attend my brothers funeral.
Then, last Sunday night, he called, "I am so sick. I can not move"
I told him to call the trainer. They had him at the doc's the next morning, with ample antibiotics that he felt better by the next day.
He was worried because the GM and the A's manager were coming to watch the practices on that Monday. I think they were there several days, if not all week.
The good news is that Matt was 2-2 and threw a runner out in front of the "big boss". But, more importantly to them and him, his hits were lead off hits, one a line drive on an 0-2 pitch.
Even more than a commercial business (which it is), it is about teamwork and doing your part each day. It takes teamwork with those talent levels to compete against the other teams talent levels.
"Dad, they are here making career decisions this week."
"Maybe, I'll get promoted to high-A, or AA."
"Maybe, I'll get invited to the major league spring training camp."
I have learned a lot by watching though.
For our family and son, it has been an unbelievably positive experience.
It seems strange to say, but the A's have been, are, and would be in a more normal industry, a great place to work.
Matt's first call came through not long after arriving at the A's minor league facilities.
"Dad, this is just unbelievable."
Somewhat dreading the first day, with anticipation like any first day of practice, a practice was scheduled for the afternoon of the day of arrival.
"Practice" was a brief meeting, got paid, and told what time to arrive the next morning.
"Not too bad, dad."
Matt's summer coach is in charge of catchers, so Matt has been "ahead" of the other catchers because his coach had already been working with him as they played their summer schedule.
First day, or two, as I recall, were "Relationships With Umpires 101". Introduce yourself before the start of the game and establish a first name basis, tell the ump who is pitching today and the types of pitches that he can expect to see. Expect him to hit the corners and I'll be catching the ball to take advantage of that and not trying to show you up. With runners on second, I'll be setting up late so that the pitch is not given away. We have a runner on first, so you might want to anticipate a throw down to second or a pick-off at first.
Fascinating to me at the details involved.
They have a meeting every morning, drills, then a game, and if not in the game, more drills, hitting, or bullpens.
It's really hot in AZ so they weigh in before practice and after practice to monitor water loss.
For Matt, about 8-10 pounds difference everyday.
He said the first day of practice he grabbed a cup of ice water and kinda kept testing the taste. looked at the trainer, and, said, "That has fresh squeezed lemons in it". "Yes, it does"
A fine for forgetting to weigh out.
They have breakfast and lunch in the clubhouse everyday.
After catching a game (only 3-4 innings ususally per day) after practice, an up to the chin soak in a hot tub, then alternate in 60 degree water to help their legs recover. (That 60 degree water up to the chin really bothers me)
Most companies invest in the training of their employees, but not like the A's, and the other major league teams.
They flew 38 boys and maybe a dozen coaches in from all of the country. The boys are paid similar to their minor league contract amounts.
I've been to spring training facilities in Florida. I always enjoyed the immaculate fields and wondered why there were so many. I just figured it was because of the number of players. It is, but extra fields allow them to use an a entire field to hit, work the outfield, or the left or right side of the infield, all at the same time.
Another example of how they invest in their future players.
They are efficient at practice the way some companies are efficient in their business.
They make great use of their time, facilities, and use their personnel wisely.
He has received a lot of training related to the mental aspect of the game. Learning to deal with failure, for example.
The most impressive thing to me is the continual positive reinforcement and encouragement that he has received. It is an environment that I prefer and attempt to create in the company where I work. I don't know for sure, but I think it is very likely that atmosphere has to be created from the top down.
For the catchers, one of the drills that they have done is to catch foul balls. Shouldn't be too surprising. But, the way it is done fascinated me.
They use the machine to fire five balls out of sight into the air, sprayed from one dugout to the other. Another ball is fired as the previous ball starts down.
The have to find and catch all five of them. If you ask me, that's practice.
The intereting thing to me was that he said we were laughing and having fun doing it. (With all that equipment on and 108-110 degrees)
The pitching machine is also setup 45 feet away and they catch and frame pitches at the equivalent of about 110 MPH. (Hellaious overtraining if you ask me)
I think they have blocked balls for an hour everyday.
Contrasted by the pitchers (his roomates, they have an apartment that they pay for) that have the day off after they throw and don't travel with the team to play the next day, so they play golf all day. (and make more money)
They have tweaked hitting techniques and worked on calling the games.
He has missed two days of practice.
He was graciously allowed to attend my brothers funeral.
Then, last Sunday night, he called, "I am so sick. I can not move"
I told him to call the trainer. They had him at the doc's the next morning, with ample antibiotics that he felt better by the next day.
He was worried because the GM and the A's manager were coming to watch the practices on that Monday. I think they were there several days, if not all week.
The good news is that Matt was 2-2 and threw a runner out in front of the "big boss". But, more importantly to them and him, his hits were lead off hits, one a line drive on an 0-2 pitch.
Even more than a commercial business (which it is), it is about teamwork and doing your part each day. It takes teamwork with those talent levels to compete against the other teams talent levels.
"Dad, they are here making career decisions this week."
"Maybe, I'll get promoted to high-A, or AA."
"Maybe, I'll get invited to the major league spring training camp."
Great post FO!
quote:Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Contrasted by the pitchers (his roomates, they have an apartment that they pay for) that have the day off after they throw and don't travel with the team to play the next day, so they play golf all day. (and make more money).
It's interesting to hear that teams do things a bit differently, but all have the same goal, to produce MLB players. It's also amazing that while we always talk about the lousy pay, they are well taken care of. Mine didn't get paid, but a room at the Marriot, two square meals a day and plenty of money for dinners. Yesterday he was handed (he wasn't expecting) a hefty check for traveling expenses (on his own) that will more then cover his expenses to drive back to South Carolina.
It's been brutal here, but more humid than dry so they train differently, that's interesting also.
The other day when I was there, all the red fields (you guys know that from PG wood bat) were occupied with something going on, between the two teams of Mets (visitors) and Cardinals.
And reinforcement is always positive, that he enjoyed the most. He was able to work with the head pitching director during rehab and some instruction and then fell under the care of the High A coach and got lots of words of encouragement before he left. It's been a different type of summer for him, but a positive one.
I was sorry to hear of the loss of your brother. I hope you are doing well.
great reading this stuff, interesting and very entertaining.
fo
the first phone call from your son was great, our's called on his first day of mini camp. explained the day's events,uni,workouts, etc. i said how did you like it? he said, dad i could do this the rest of my life. that's when you know they are where they belong. thank you all for sharing this great event in your lifes, and ours to i guess.
fo
the first phone call from your son was great, our's called on his first day of mini camp. explained the day's events,uni,workouts, etc. i said how did you like it? he said, dad i could do this the rest of my life. that's when you know they are where they belong. thank you all for sharing this great event in your lifes, and ours to i guess.
FO,
Very, very interesting.....thank you so much for sharing!
Very, very interesting.....thank you so much for sharing!
These are the posts I am the most interested in hearing.
Former...........thanks for the detail and best wishes in the quest. You are somewhere in baseball I can't wait to be. Same for TPM..........
How fantastic that is..............
Former...........thanks for the detail and best wishes in the quest. You are somewhere in baseball I can't wait to be. Same for TPM..........
How fantastic that is..............