Muscles in hitting....

Some of the best hitters were not home run hitters---is that not true?

Which of the "best hitters" have never hit at least one or two Homeruns in a season? Just curious as I do not know the answer to the question. I think that the point is, if you have good batspeed and a good approach at the plate you will put a few out each year by accident, if for no other reason.

This is a tee swing...No upper body control....A swing developed on a tee without the benefit of rhythm and timing.....Balance in this hitter comes from the legs and no power....

BlueDog:
I've certainly respected your knowledge and posts over the years, but that is NOT a "tee swing". IMO, it is just the opposite. If that kids spent a few hours hitting off a tee, the bat path would definitely be corrected...at the very least.

I agree, That swing would hit the tee, not the ball, and actually could improve with some tee work to correct that issue at least...

quote:

If that kids spent a few hours hitting off a tee, the bat path would definitely be corrected...at the very least.

Lester, the bat path is not this kid's problem.....

I copied the picture and added a tee to show how the bat would hit the tee with that swing. Unfortunately, I'm not technically saavy to add it...

Bat paths look similar to me....

Would this bat hit the tee?

There is a major difference in what these two hitters are doing.....Hitting off a tee promotes what one of them is doing....And, it has to do with rhythm and timing....

Lester and Floridafan, do you know what it is?

You know that I disagree with your assesment of the Tee for teaching mechanics and I really don't want to post the same clips of my son again but feel it relevant.I would agree with you if the ONLY hitting that was done was on a tee,but I don't think anyone teaches solely with a tee.


AND,those bat paths look quite different to me.The kid is dropping his hands and dragging the bat.I also feel the tee could be used to help fix it.

I really think for a 9 year old that tee works has done well for him.


Is this a tee swing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoFVrwkPAzc


Or this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEjeotQgQtU

Tfox, can you answer the question I asked Lester and Floridafan?

No one can,it might it might not.He is referring to the bat coming up from under the ball causing the bat to be on the bottom of the ball,atleast that is my take on it.


My son hits the tee plenty but he is coming in from behind the ball,not under and still hitting,for the most part,the center of the ball.


I would assume the bat would hit the tee in the pic by just a little assuming he hits the ball dead center.

Tfox, how 'bout the other question?....What is the major difference in the two swings I posted?

I am not into your riddles,I can say there are some obvious things he is doing that can be fixed on a tee,the dropping the hands and dragging the bat.There are simple drills for that,he actually is doing a decent job with his hips,some tee work with the right instructor can help him.

It is clear he isn't getting the separation you like to speak of but not sure if that has a darn thing to do with your question.

There is quite a bit different but a tee swing it is not.It is a young hitters swing that needs some more worrk.

One is hitting home run 7xx. The other popping the ball up so his brother can go get a free snow cone for returning the ball to the snack shack.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Tfox, I won't discuss your son's hitting.......

I will say, I know there are some here who have tried to help you understand hitting by way of private discussions and have given up....

You even got the bat path post wrong....

I have every pm ever sent me and those pm's don't exist.I have asked you direct questions in pm's and you refereed me to someone else's info.

I have gotten some great info from coachb25 in pm's helping me with my daughter.

How am I wrong,is he not dropping his hands to swing up from under the ball or is he not dragging the bat.


BOF hit the nail on the head.

Hi Tfox, my two cents on what I see. There is not to much wrong with the bat plan..in my opinion.

However he has an aweful case of bat drag and I also see that he pulling the bat with his front should, witness the straightened lead front elbow, as opposed to getting his bat to the zone by turning his hips, creating seperation and then swinging.

Just what I see.

Regards, Mike

I have found that the triceps and forearms cause the best swing.

Any extension of the arms requires these muscles acting in concert.

Generating power would be further aided by the weight shift and hip turn.

Tension is the enemy of speed.

Swing fast, not hard.

1. The hitter is Ortiz, not Bonds. Ortiz does not have 7xx HRs.
2. The little kid has no pre-swing rythm. He hits with dead hands.
3. Tee work would benefit the kid, provided it was done correctly.

4. Another major difference between Ortiz and the kid is that Ortiz loads his hands from low to high. The kid does the opposite and creates a rythmless, slow, sweeping swing.

5. When I was hitting well, I found that my stomach, lats, and forearms were sore afterwards.

Biiiiig Paaaapi:
1) loads his front knee/hip as he moves forward (kid strides with poor lower body load),

2) creates nice stretch with rear arm elevating as lower body moves forward (kid is dropping rear arm as lower body moves forward),

3) controls his weight shift/rear hip release (kids weight shift is too early),

4) has separation between lower/upper bodies when rotating (kid rotates both together), and

5) his launch point is efficient with strong rotating hand action going from tip to lag position and forward (kid drops hands to get into lag position, and then has drag into rotation as rear elbow gets in front of hands).

my 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
This is why I'm against hitting off a tee....

I saw a video of Ted Williams when he was in his prime in Boston hitting off a tee made of a plunger and a garden hose. I think it worked okay for him.

Tony Gwynn is a huge proponent of tee work...and it worked for him.

If you don't like tee work, that's fine, but I wouldn't totally write it off.

If a hitter is having problems with rhythm and timing its not because they hit off a tee. A tee is not the best tool for hitting, IMO, but it is not a bad tool either by any means.

I think that hitting live bp or playing in games is a much better way to develop rhythm and timing, but a tee is not going to hurt someone's swing.

quote:

It's, also, why I believe a player needs to be able to hit some homeruns to have an efficient swing....

A player NEEDS to be able to hit some home runs to have an efficient swing?

How about an efficient swing will allow you to hit some home runs?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
This is a tee swing...No upper body control....A swing developed on a tee without the benefit of rhythm and timing.....Balance in this hitter comes from the legs and no power....

Blue,

Do you know this kid? I would hope you do, because I have never heard the statement "tee swing" when referring to a kid hitting a live pitch.

Do you know that this kid developed his swing on a tee?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
why I believe a player needs to be able to hit some homeruns to have an efficient swing....

So are you saying those softball players down at the rec park are perfect hitters. With the huge uppercut swing. What about Ty-Cobb great hitter not alot of homeruns. Cant say that was during the dead ball, because he played years with Ruth.

quote:

I saw a video of Ted Williams when he was in his prime in Boston hitting off a tee made of a plunger and a garden hose. I think it worked okay for him.

Now, there's a reason to go out and get a tee.....

quote:

Tony Gwynn is a huge proponent of tee work...and it worked for him.

Wow!..Even more reason!

quote:

If you don't like tee work, that's fine,.....

Thanks, so much, for your permission to not like the tee.....

quote:

.....a tee is not going to hurt someone's swing.

Again, thanks, I was worried that it might.....Now, my mind is at ease....

quote:

creates nice stretch with rear arm elevating as lower body moves forward (kid is dropping rear arm as lower body moves forward),...

Wayback, you are correct...The kid is swinging when he should be loading.....

I really do hope Lester and Florida can see that....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

I saw a video of Ted Williams when he was in his prime in Boston hitting off a tee made of a plunger and a garden hose. I think it worked okay for him.

Now, there's a reason to go out and get a tee.....

quote:

Tony Gwynn is a huge proponent of tee work...and it worked for him.

Wow!..Even more reason!

quote:

If you don't like tee work, that's fine,.....

Thanks, so much, for your permission to not like the tee.....

quote:

.....a tee is not going to hurt someone's swing.

Again, thanks, I was worried that it might.....Now, my mind is at ease....

Wow Blue, very mature.

This is how I look at it...Ted used it, Tony used it, and thousands of other pros have and do use it.

BlueDog says don't use it.

Who to believe?

I'll go with Ted, Tony, and everyone else on this one.

All I did was disagree with your opinion while showing you my own with evidence to back it up. You came back with nothing but immaturity.

Grow up.

quote:

If a hitter is having problems with rhythm and timing its not because they hit off a tee.

Oh, I see....Uh, yeah, OK.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

If a hitter is having problems with rhythm and timing its not because they hit off a tee.

Oh, I see....Uh, yeah, OK.....

Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread?

I feel that your opinion with regards to hitting off a tee being to blame for problems with rhythm and timing is off.

I understand you have an opinion, but are you going to try and back that up with something more than showing a kid's swing and calling it a "tee swing?"

Are you just going to mock everything I say now or are you going to try and prove whatever point you are trying to make?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:



There is a major difference in what these two hitters are doing.....Hitting off a tee promotes what one of them is doing....And, it has to do with rhythm and timing....

Lester and Floridafan, do you know what it is?

Bluedog:
Are you serious? Do you really think these two swings are the same? If you do, then we really have nothing to discuss because we are clearly not in the same hemisphere. The tip of the boys bat is nearly as low as his back heel. And IMO, tee work would certainly help.

If you really, truly, honestly believe these two bat paths are the same, then I have no answer for you.

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:
Are you just going to mock everything I say now or are you going to try and prove whatever point you are trying to make?

No...posting some random kid and proclaiming it a "tee swing" is his entire argument.

Nanny nanny boo boo

Theres no way thats a tee swing... he would be knocking the tee over everytime if it was.

Most of you have no idea about what I'm saying....

Wayback does....

Lester doesn't know the difference between bat path and load.....How 'bout you, Florida?

This bat path would send a tee flying, bigtime....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Most of you have no idea about what I'm saying....

That's because what you say on here rarely makes sense. Also becuase you seem to ignore questions and/or comments directed your way for your own self-interests and riddles.

Amen to that !!!

quote:

Also becuase you seem to ignore questions and/or comments directed your way for your own self-interests.....

I post only to learn.....So, I suppose, that is a self-interest...But, I want to hear what everyone thinks, whether they agree or disagree.....

Some things I know for sure...Other things, I don't know for sure......

I learn alot more by working with younger hitters.....

I do not pre-load them because I want to see the effects of teaching them body movement....Also, because pre-loading is the root cause of dropping the hands and swinging while striding.....Especially, when teaching pre-loading and hitting off a tee.......

Any age hitter who is changing his swing, or learning a swing, is also changing, or learning, his rhythm.....And, I firmly believe rhythm must be learned from the very beginning of any new loading pattern with the body.......If the hands load out of rhythm, the party's over....

This kid has the hands loaded out of rythm.....

BlueDog can only end a sentence with and ellipsis...

Can you answer any of the questions I asked earlier?

Beemax, weight shift, when and how it happens, is another huge factor in hitting....Get this wrong and the party's over, also.....I would venture a guess that many on here get this wrong....

The other big factor in hitting is arm action....

Some emphasize the kinetic chain...I don't...
I do emphasize getting the rhythm right....

These are some things I am sure about....