My Mechanics

What pitching coach doesn't know the wheel play? lol

I hear ya Bighit....

quote:

Bighit, my answer is not wrong. It is right on, the back hip is what gets the pitcher off the back leg not the "inside posting leg" haha that is clueless.

We can disagree on the technique, that is when the other party has a clue. What instructor doesn't know the wheel? Duh

Wow I am not a pitching COACH, I am a pitcing INSTRUCTOR.

I'm sorry I don't know the wheel and never heard of it. So why don't you keep making fun of me. Maybe I should start making fun of you're pitching knowledge.

Busta,

My point is that there is HECK of lot more to it than mechanics, velocity etc...

As a pitching instructor/coach you must have knowledge of everything that can occur while pitching.

Like:

1. Bunt coverages
2. Backing up bases
3. Rundowns
4. Holding Runners
5. Situational Pitching
6. PFP's
etc...

quote:

Wow I am not a pitching COACH, I am a pitcing INSTRUCTOR.

quote:

I'm sorry I don't know the wheel and never heard of it. So why don't you keep making fun of me. Maybe I should start making fun of you're pitching knowledge

You have just proved stupidity. If you don't know the wheel play, you should not be an instructor. You are stupid.

Low, I know that. And I admit I'm not that good at that stuff yet.

Busta,

Hopefully you are as eager to learn as you are to instruct/coach.

Is the wheel play just the simple bunt coverage situation? I know what that is I just don't call it "the wheel". Pitcher should cover the middle of field and throw to the proper base but it's the catchers call.

quote:

Is the wheel play just the simple bunt coverage situation? I know what that is I just don't call it "the wheel". Pitcher should cover the middle of field and throw to the proper base but it's the catchers call.

I cannot wait to pay you money to teach my son.

Busta,

The wheel is a bunt coverage designed to get the lead runner. You do not put it on unless you are extremely sure they are bunting.

SS starts on runner, then takes off to third. As this happens the corner guys crash (charge).

So 3B has left side, 1B has right side, P has everything in front of him, 2B covers 1st.

Pitcher must make sure of the following:

1. Give SS time to get to third
2. Make sure that the runner at 2nd is stopped or moving back to second. (you don't want the runner taking off w/ the SS).
3. Know what area of field to cover
4. Ball bunted hard on ground at the pitcher or popped up, DO NOT throw the ball to second for an attemted DP or to double up the guy at 2nd when ball is popped up. As no one will be there.

And ..oh yea.....THROW A STRIKE...

Middle of the field is wide open. So often coaches will teach their hitters the following:

If we are bunting and they run wheel, pull it back and swing the bat


There are other things to do as well.....this is just GENERAL info on the wheel....

Low, thanks for the info. I've played baseball a long time (up until college) and a coach has never explained that to me. Of course I was an outfielder and a pitcher so that might be the reason I didn't know.

You are welcome....

May I offer one more piece of advice.....

Please tone down the way you express what you think to be correct....others take it as arrogance and put you on the defense.....

Listen more, talk less.....Nothing wrong w/ believing what you believe, just be open to learning more..

Thanks for the advice, I will work on that.

No problem.....anytime...

Also Low, my e-mail thing broke recently and I can't reply so if you have questions just ask me here.

You got it....

quote:

Wow you guys don't even know what I'm talking about. I was referring to after the pitcher comes down from his balance you need to lead with your hip instead of the front shoulder.

Bustamove,


I was willing to be done with this disussion.
but if you really wish to continue.....

You have just proven my point....I have a pretty good knowledge of this from the last 7 years of attending lesson after lesson with my son.

You said "leading with the hip" I have seen as many different explanations of this as there are pitching coaches/instructors. If you are going to toss out generalities as term for discussion, you will always be misunderstood.

Leading with the hip begins with what you do with your leg and foot as move out of the balance position. Many kids say I am leading with my hip, but simply swing their leg open from balance.

Again, your approach to this will not work, its like saying i'll teach the piano by just having my students play songs. When they mess it up, ill show them how to fix it. It simply will not work.


.....hmm...as i read on this gets even better.....

"I agree that you need to be balanced at the start but you also need good momentum so you get enough energy to the plate. Once you get to the balanced position it's go right from there. You focuse on leading with the hip to a side lung with the foot closed as long as possible. But you do that explosively."

EXACTLY in detail steps Please....

How do you move from the balance position to lead leg landing?

quote:

Bobblehead, Why always trust what the pros do? Do you think pitching has improved in the last 20 years? No it hasn't and that's why I am against some of the things you guys are advicating. You sound like somebody who listens to a past coach and think you know it all just cause you listened to a former pro coach. Hate to break it too you but even pro coaches aren't that good anymore.

First of all, have you taken a good long look at the strike zone in MLB Busta ?

Yuo hav eto be a better pitcher today than 20 or 30 years ago simply to survive.

Statisticaly, one would guess piching has not gotten much better. But factor in smaller hitter freindly ball parks, a juiced up ball as well ae juiced up players.


And one very simple thing to think about....

These teams are investing MILLIONS of DOLLARS,
not a few hours of researching videos. They might just know what they are doing.

quote:

I've played baseball a long time (up until college) and a coach has never explained that to me. Of course I was an outfielder and a pitcher so that might be the reason I didn't know.

Pardon me, but after all this , one simply can not let this pass by....

It is simply not possible for any baseball player to not know about bunt coverages. The terminology may indeed have changed...but even if your an outfielder, you have responsibilities on these plays to back up throws to bases.

If you were a pitcher...in HS ball...and you were never taught bunt coverages, your coach should be publicly flogged!

I learned this in the late 60's in LL for god's sake.

quote:

Busta,

My point is that there is HECK of lot more to it than mechanics, velocity etc...

As a pitching instructor/coach you must have knowledge of everything that can occur while pitching.

Like:

1. Bunt coverages
2. Backing up bases
3. Rundowns
4. Holding Runners
5. Situational Pitching
6. PFP's
etc...

LOW...


Right on the money!

Busta,

Another thing every pitcher had better know, unless he enjoys sitting the bench. Any ball hit to the right side of the infield, he had better be sprinting towards the 1st base bag in case he needs to cover. Any hesitation could lead to an extra out in that inning....that is never a good thing!

Busta you are copping out. THe ego is yours. I have read several posters advice and only have a problem with yours.
Most posters are saying what they have learned from knowlegeable coaches over the years. You are trying to reinvent the wheel against great advice including a sports Chiropractor who made his living as a MLB coach.
Tell us about your coaching, and the questions asked. Don't coppout by attacking those who have a real problem with a guy coaching kids without having any credentials or konwledge.

Bobblehead, See this is the problem with this site. You guys think that just because this former MLB coach said this drill works, this long toss program works, etc. What I have to say to that is show me the evidence. Because the advice on here speaks volumes of why pitchers today are not improving and the injuries are at an all time rate. And I know there are people on here that have kids in the minors. That's great, but imagine how much better they could be if given the right advice. JMO.

I don't know what it is that makes you think that you have a better way. Your way is foolish and I have met coaches and people like you who think they are so logical that they can re-invent the wheel.
When you base your conclusions on faulty info and suppositions your coclusions are WRONG.
There are many reasons why there are lots of injuries in baseball. I am not going to list all of them but just look at how many teams there are in comparison and how specialized pitchers are. Pitchers will always be prone to injury. I can tell you that what you are advising would result in a huge increase in injury if in fact any of your pitchers got out of rec ball. I hear variations on technique all the time and some is good but I will always listen to the professional.
I just came back from a senior Elite tournament in Windsor Ont next to Detroit. Most pitchers range from 20 to 35yo and it was amazing baseball. I watched the pitchers most of whom were colleg or ex pros. All did LT and started slow in the bullpen breaking down their motion. They over accentuated each step until they were ready to crank it up. Crank it up they did many in the 90s and throwing smooth and with ease. Lots of strikes and games with 0 runs allowed.

This is a little bit random, but this question is mostly directed toward Busta.

You say I should speed up the beginning of my delivery, but my question to you is why? Once you reach your balence point all momentem stops. You can move all you want, but it doesn't matter once you get to your balance point, because then you stop.

Also a very large majority of MLB pitchers have a very slow wind up--some even slower than mine.


Adam Lowen

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/scripts/mediaplayer/mp_tp...Type=w&urlstr=&murl=

Rodrigo Lopez

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/scripts/mediaplayer/mp_tp...Type=w&urlstr=&murl=

Busta,

You were doing ok...but here is where guys like you....(bluedog/Yoda in the hittng forum)
put yourselves in bullseye.


"You guys think that just because this former MLB coach said this drill works, this long toss program works, etc."

Theories....reciting some paper you found on the net...claiming you are an instructor....

If what you are claiming was even 10% right, these MLB teams wold be knocking down your door.
You sure as hell wold not have the time to be here chatting.

The first AAU organiztion my son played for had a pitching program that merged ideas, drills and game time appproaches from the Red Sox, The Dodgers and the Univeristy of Texas.

The middle son of the man who ran that organiztion is currently pitcihng for the Red Sox AA affilliate.

Many other guys that have come thru that program are currently in college on baseball scholarship. More heading that way in just a few weeks.

Only a complete idiot would sit here and make the statement you just did.

Use just one ounce of commo sense my friend,
if it did not work......why..oh why would MLB organizations waste MILLIONS of dollars on pitchers that are being taught wrong?

It is one thing to claim you have some understanding of how to teach pitching, but its really rather absurd to claim all of professional baseball is doing it wrong.

I will show the evidence....These programs hav eput pitchers into the professional ranks....


Now...who have you instructed?

How far into professional ball have they gone.

The right advice..are you really serious?

.....do not drills....just go throw at GAME SPEED and hope the hell someone like you can see the problem come up with a cure...and then magically make the kid so it.....

Yep, ****...I can see them lining up at your door now just waiting to hand you their kids and wallets!!!!!

Hoove now your talking. Everything to balance is prepation to control your motion. It is all about control
I watch one of the pitchers on my son's summer team who was drafted and played in the minors for a couple years. He is notorious for slowing it down. I think he is too slow some times but has great results.

Hoove the video of adam shows how you have to keep your head focused on the plate.

I think Busta has been watching cricket too much.

NH it is great to hear of kids getting great coaching.

Hoovedawg, You should never stop at any point in the delivery. The reason why some MLB pitchers move slow is because they can get away with it because of there body mass. With you I saw you're tempo was too slow from the start. Once you're foot lands velocity cannot be improved. If you could speed up you're tempo from the very start and speed up the lunge move toward landing that will improve you're velocity more then anything.

Oh...by the way...was Clemens doing it wrong last year?

Was Pedro doing it wrong those glory years in boston?

Hell .... god knows Bob Gibson (1.12 ERA), Luis Tiant(1.60 ERA) and Denny Mclain (31-6) must have been doing it wrong in 1968.

The basis for all the drills and methods that virtually all real instructors/coaches use is because they have a history of success!!!!!!

You may inded come up with soemthing new....but you cannot dismiss the current methods because there is "no evidence" !

Provide some real hard factual info about what you are doing rahter than some heresay mumbo jumbo. If you have a real new method that you can show has benefits, all of us will stand up and cheer and follow along. Until then, you can make claims....and expec to be challenged

Busta you just showed your ignorance for the Nth time. If you don't stop at set I wonder what the guy in the blue uni behind the plate would think ? Even a rat knows when he is in a corner and has to find a different way out.

OK I'll tell you how Bob Gibson did it. He threw off the mound for alot of years and improved his skill. He didn't do it by long toss, drills, or weighted balls. He did it by moving from the back leg to the front leg explosively with good timing. That is what pitchers need to do to be successful and alot of them do it.

Bobblehead, Yes you have to pause in the STRETCH. But that wasn't his question genious. I'm talking about once you start there should be no stopping.

quote:

OK I'll tell you how Bob Gibson did it. He threw off the mound for alot of years and improved his skill. He didn't do it by long toss, drills, or weighted balls. He did it by moving from the back leg to the front leg explosively with good timing. That is what pitchers need to do to be successful and alot of them do it.

Cute,

And you have talked to him personally...right?

Please, how many actual true profession ball players have you talked to?

Busta,

If you truely believe that a pitcher does not have a momentary stop at the balance position, then how on God's green earth, can he go from a positon where the movement going on is a lifting and slight turn of the lead leg to moving forward. There is a fraction of a second there where there is no movement. It is even more pronounced in a lefty throwing from the stretch.

Oh that is right...i forgot...you are a pitching INSTRUCTOR....the pickoff move to first is something you have to work on later....
I am sure all those parents of your students will appreciate that come game time.


Care to address the slide step as well ?

No haven't talked to him. But have you talked to the people you said have done drills? No you haven't. I do know of one person who played in the MLB and he said nobody did LT, drills, etc. But now pitchers are doing those activities and guess what pitchers are not improving. If LT worked then the people who could throw the longest would throw with the most velocity. Now is that the case? Think about it, it's common sense it doesn't work. Weighted balls would work if the arm was the source of power but it clearly is not. Drills only work if you are working with a young pitcher who has no clue what he is doing. But once he gets an understanding of the delivery he should stop drills. Also just because Mark Prior does the towel drill doesn't mean you're son should do it.

Busta think about what you said.

You bury yourself further with each post. You know even less than I thought. On a scale of 1-10 you are negative 6.

Hoove,

My work place here has some security blocks...
I can not get the videos you posted to come up, but from what I am hearing from the other guys, I think you found the real balance position

I repeat there should be NO stopping at all, even at the balance. WOW if you stopped then it would be like golfers stopping at the backswing. Yes I'm a pitching instructer and yes I work pickoff moves with my pitchers. What about the slide step? The slide step is used to get the ball to the plate quicker. What you do is get all you're weight on back leg and then rock you're hip back slightly so you lead with the hip and maintain power.