While reading the post on this topic, I've come to the conclusion that many of the posters here need to walk in these kids shoes before making some of these comments.
I've been coaching travel ball in Baltimore Maryland. We play in the Baltimore Metro League which is the top league in the state. The majority of my team come from low income families. Many of these kids have played together for many years. I can't tell you how many times other teams have tried to recruit my players from our team. That is untill they find out that they have no way of paying to play on thier team. Me and my wife raise the money and also have to transport almost every kid to and from every game. Most of the parents could care less if thier kids played or not.
Disadvantage:
1. No money
2. No help from parents or community
Baseball today is a very expensive sport. With hitting coaches, pitching coaches and strength and conditioning coaches. These guys aren't cheap. The lower income kids are just at to much of a disadvantage and with out any help it will only get worse. I read post that state that the odds of making it to the pro's is so great that basically why bother with these kids. I have two 16 yr old players on my team that have a child. Both had no parents there for them. One has played for me since he was twelve and the other started playing for us last year. Both are pitchers one throws low to mid 80's and the other throws upper 80's. Many of the teams we play are coached by high school coaches. At the beginning of our season we defeated the Fowble Green Terror 16u. After the game thier coach called me over to tell me how they were the premier team from our area and that he had never heard of my players.
I told him it's because they don't go to private school or play for a money team. The 16 yr old with a kid pitched and totally dominated them. I told them he played for the local public school right down the street from thier home field.
I can honestly say that if it wasn't for me and my wife none of these kids would be playing. Everyone of them are playing varsity but one. He quit school and has a good paying job to support his girlfriend and his daughter. His name is Mike and he loved sports, especially baseball. He was one of the most gifted athlete's I had ever seen. He spent most of his life fending for himself. Most of the time he didn't even know where his next meal was coming from. I totally believe that if he didn't have baseball he would be in jail. He may not play in the MLB but because he had a coach that took the time to get him involved in the game he loved he was able to change his life. I saw many players who had every advantage possible but didn't have half the talent he and many others had. I will always wonder how far he could have gone if he had the chance. Just because you are from a low income area doesn't mean you aren't a good athlete or don't like baseball.
I totally agree with P.G That MLB is losing out on so much talent, black and white. There is so much money invested in other sports that baseball is lagging way behind and that I believe is why baseball has lost ground to some of the other sports.
The reason for my post is that I feel very strongly about this issue. Although I'm far from rich, I can afford to send my son to places to better his game. My son was supposed to play for MVP Baseball at the JR Olympic tournament for Al McCormick before he injuried his arm. He went to the Maryland P.G Showcase where not only did he get to show off his arm strength but also to learn from the experience. There are many talented kids who will never get that chance because of the lack of oppertunity. Many of my players are gifted but can't afford to showcase or even go to camps. We actually folded our team this year because my wife and myself could not afford to carry the team anymore without help.
So for all the players out there that showcase and play in travel tournaments all summer, be thankfull that you have parents who not only can afford to spend the money but also put in the time to put you in the position to be the best player you can be.
Also if MLB wants baseball to be as strong as it once was,it needs to invest more in areas in the U.S. Sorry for the long post, I hope it makes sense.
Nighthawks11
I was agreeing with you also, I just used your qoute and was adding my 2 cent's worth.
I believe in promoting baseball for all levels, for everybody.
across the board.
The old saying,
The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
Comes to mind here.
EH
I was agreeing with you also, I just used your qoute and was adding my 2 cent's worth.
I believe in promoting baseball for all levels, for everybody.
across the board.
The old saying,
The squeeky wheel gets the grease.
Comes to mind here.
EH
"quote"
Me and my wife raise the money and also have to transport almost every kid to and from every game. Most of the parents could care less if thier kids played or not. "quote"
banditsbb,
I applaud your effort Sir.
Ask the businesses for help, they will help.
As far as the 16 year old that had a baby.
Those are personal choices that he made.
And now he must live with those choices.
And like you said, Most of the parent's could care less.
Well maybe those parent's should walk in my shoes to see what there missing.
Those Parent's are very selfish, and should change their priority's.
They are the one's that deprive there children.
Not the MLB.
It does not take money.
It take's an effort to get out there and coach.
You don't need hitting instructors, are pitching instructors to be a good ball player.
It take's time and practice to be a good baseball player.
No amount of money spent is going to change a parent's attitude if they don't care.
I've seen plenty of parent's that just don't care.
Thats not an inner city thing only.
And i'm sure there's plenty of concerned parent's in the inner city.
Like I said in an earlier post.
If there's a will,
there's a way.
EH
Me and my wife raise the money and also have to transport almost every kid to and from every game. Most of the parents could care less if thier kids played or not. "quote"
banditsbb,
I applaud your effort Sir.
Ask the businesses for help, they will help.
As far as the 16 year old that had a baby.
Those are personal choices that he made.
And now he must live with those choices.
And like you said, Most of the parent's could care less.
Well maybe those parent's should walk in my shoes to see what there missing.
Those Parent's are very selfish, and should change their priority's.
They are the one's that deprive there children.
Not the MLB.
It does not take money.
It take's an effort to get out there and coach.
You don't need hitting instructors, are pitching instructors to be a good ball player.
It take's time and practice to be a good baseball player.
No amount of money spent is going to change a parent's attitude if they don't care.
I've seen plenty of parent's that just don't care.
Thats not an inner city thing only.
And i'm sure there's plenty of concerned parent's in the inner city.
Like I said in an earlier post.
If there's a will,
there's a way.
EH
Foundations that provide grant money to support youth baseball
The government provides $30 Billion Dollars in grant money every year for personal & business grants to help people.
The problem is that you have to be willing to be toughminded to see the grant process through to completion.
Every corporation must set aside 5% of their profits to support communities in which they operate as an offset against their tax write-offs and tax credits they take.
If their are corporations in the area where you live meet with their community outreach omsbudman to find out how they can provide support. But make sure you have a plan of action that makes sense. Be prepared to help them aschieve good community PR for their contribution.
Does no good to complain about things the way they are...find a way to change them.
The government provides $30 Billion Dollars in grant money every year for personal & business grants to help people.
The problem is that you have to be willing to be toughminded to see the grant process through to completion.
Every corporation must set aside 5% of their profits to support communities in which they operate as an offset against their tax write-offs and tax credits they take.
If their are corporations in the area where you live meet with their community outreach omsbudman to find out how they can provide support. But make sure you have a plan of action that makes sense. Be prepared to help them aschieve good community PR for their contribution.
Does no good to complain about things the way they are...find a way to change them.
quote:Disadvantage:
1. No money
2. No help from parents or community
Sounds like me and my 8 brothers and sisters growing up. Baseball was a very expensive sport back then too. Everything was expensive from my perspective---- since we had nothing.
quote:Originally posted by banditsbb:
Also if MLB wants baseball to be as strong as it once was,it needs to invest more in areas in the U.S. Sorry for the long post, I hope it makes sense.
badnitsbb had some very good things to say however I thought his last was the best. Right now MLB clubs invest offshore and train players from other countries and ignore their own. They do this because of the low initial labor cost. Perhaps if they would work in country with the sons of the people that attend the games, the sport would actually prosper more in the long run. I would like to see an international draft. Perhaps then the clubs would lose that edge they get from working off shore and would move some of their developmental money back to their roots in the US. I love baseball in general and MLB but I am getting tired of the influx of players brought in from these baseball "sweat shops" at the expense of US born players.
Listening to Mike and Mike in the morning as I write.
Heard that Ichiro or Alex Rodriguez will sign a contract for anywhere from $30 million to $40 million per year.
Why does anyone need that much money for playing baseball?
Where are the owners? When will it end?
----------
Please: I don't want to hear about rock stars or corporate execs. Let's talk baseball players and giving back to the community.
Heard that Ichiro or Alex Rodriguez will sign a contract for anywhere from $30 million to $40 million per year.
Why does anyone need that much money for playing baseball?
Where are the owners? When will it end?
----------
Please: I don't want to hear about rock stars or corporate execs. Let's talk baseball players and giving back to the community.
is that a typo?quote:by banditsbb: if MLB wants baseball to be as strong as it once was,it needs to invest more in areas in the U.S
when was it stronger than it is now?
was it stronger when the Indians signed Bob Feller for $1?
$30 million contracts to key employees are not typical of a struggling business
the owners are writing the checks & as long as they're rolling in $$ it won't ever endquote:by BTiL: Where are the owners? When will it end?
mlb: "Reviving Baseball in Inner Cities (RBI) is entering its 19th season in 2007. Since its inception in 1989, RBI has grown from a local program for boys in South Central Los Angeles to an international campaign encompassing more than 200 cities and as many as 120,000 male and female participants a year."quote:by banditsbb: me and my wife raise the money and also have to transport almost every kid to and from every game...
1. No money
2. No help from parents or community
RBI local contacts -
BALTIMORE, MARYLAND
Ms. Julie Wagner
Baltimore Orioles-Camden Yards
333 W. Camden Street
Baltimore, MD 21201
410-547-6143 FAX: 410-547-6272
Jwagner@oriolepark.com
Mr. Dave Johnson
Baltimore Orioles-Camden Yards
333 W. Camden Street
Baltimore, MD 21201
rz1 -
All I am saying is that the NEA doesn't care a whit about kids, despite their public relations efforts to paint themselves about quality schools.
They are a labor union pure and simple, and a very powerful one at that. So powerful, in fact, that they could easily defeat any effort to require them to use some of the money they extort from people such as you to create inner city youth programs.
So you work for the Wisconsin Dep't of Ed? And they organized you? Wow. My condolences. I fight the union here in Oregon constantly.
All I am saying is that the NEA doesn't care a whit about kids, despite their public relations efforts to paint themselves about quality schools.
They are a labor union pure and simple, and a very powerful one at that. So powerful, in fact, that they could easily defeat any effort to require them to use some of the money they extort from people such as you to create inner city youth programs.
So you work for the Wisconsin Dep't of Ed? And they organized you? Wow. My condolences. I fight the union here in Oregon constantly.
quote:Right now MLB clubs invest offshore and train players from other countries and ignore their own.
I doubt if any of us would argue that MLB is a business. With that, lets take a historical look on what other businesses do with their investments.
Where did Intel, IBM, and other chip manufactures/computer companies go for their hardware after Silicon Valley out priced itself?
Where did the auto industry go for car parts after it compiled it's numbers and found out that the investment overseas was a better option than investing at home?
Where has the clothing industry, which includes shoes, run off to?
While those situations are dealing with "hardware" and MLB is dealing with people, the bottom line, both are consumables in their respective business plans.
We can sit back and say that investing in Latin America is a bad move and un-American, but, we don't have the return quotient to make that determination and we are speaking from the heart and not as an owner/stockholder. This is a "what have you done for me lately" world and historically the inner-city has not shown a good return and it is not a secret that the American investment dollar will go a lot further in Latin America.
Besides the lower up front operating costs, investing in Latin American countries also removes you from Americas hidden evils, liability,lawsuits, and 3rd party greed, a businessman's worse nightmare. The devils advocate asks: Do you think that Americas attitude toward the dream of grabbing the "golden egg" may be a reason MLB will go places where commitment, dedication, and hard work are an easy sell?
quote:So you work for the Wisconsin Dep't of Ed? And they organized you? Wow. My condolences.
Rob, I work for the Univ of WI- Division of Information Technology.
Thats a bigger WOW
Baseball today is a very expensive sport. With hitting coaches, pitching coaches and strength and conditioning coaches. These guys aren't cheap. The lower income kids are just at to much of a disadvantage and with out any help it will only get worse.
Was not expensive when I was coming up. With that how did AAron Mays Robinson make it.
It is expensive for some because they make it that way. How many private lessons or showcases did the above attend.
Lets face facts a lot of people are making a lot of money. Supply and demand. Convince a parent that spending money for lessons etc will make their kid a better player and they write a check.
I was talking to a parent of a little league kid recently who said he bought his kid a new bat.Said he Paid close to 200 dollars.
Then I thought to my youth when we played on the sandlots of the city with a wooden bat that when it cracked we put some nails and screws and played on.
Was not expensive when I was coming up. With that how did AAron Mays Robinson make it.
It is expensive for some because they make it that way. How many private lessons or showcases did the above attend.
Lets face facts a lot of people are making a lot of money. Supply and demand. Convince a parent that spending money for lessons etc will make their kid a better player and they write a check.
I was talking to a parent of a little league kid recently who said he bought his kid a new bat.Said he Paid close to 200 dollars.
Then I thought to my youth when we played on the sandlots of the city with a wooden bat that when it cracked we put some nails and screws and played on.
quote:Will quote:
Was not expensive when I was coming up. With that how did AAron Mays Robinson make it.
Will,
I don't think you can take those few that had god given abilities and compare them to the average Joe at the park. I may be way off base but I think baseball players, as a whole, accross the board, are better today than they were in the AAron/Mays/Robinson era. I also feel that is attributed to specialized training practices.
Let me qualify that answer by saying that the small group that includes the likes of AAron, Mays, Robinson, will never be passed up, they will only be used as a benchmark of the uppercrust.
Since baseball is a warm weather sport we can all relax and wait for global warming's positive impact on baseball ---- OR ---- maybe we should blame FUBU for not making gloves, bats and cleats. 
Fungo
Fungo
Before this thread disintegrates into something way off topic, I want steer it back towards what PG hit on and alluded to in his post. A lot of posters just don't see any problem. I do.
As I've already mentioned, a big part of the problem is a perceived lack of college opportunities for black athletes in baseball. More schollys would be a good thing for all of college baseball. JMHO, and maybe that topic is best saved for another thread.
Another part is the perceived fast track to a professional career via basketball and football. As PG pointed out so clearly, that aint necessarily the case. There are, it seems, a lot more opportunities in pro baseball than there are in the other two sports combined.
I'll also echo the comments from TripleDad. My dad worked too, and he was too busy to get involved with my pursuit of baseball other than buying me my first glove and watching a handful of games. I never even played catch with my old man. He did manage to brainwash me on the greatness of the Giants, and he did instill a deep respect for the MLB, but I really learned to love the game as a player. I just can't buy the George Will argument as the genesis of the problem.
I don't think the problem lies in a lack of parental involvement at or on the baseball field. But we make it sound as if you can't learn the game without a dad with a private coaching staff and very deep pockets. How do we change that perception?
The signs point toward a marketing problem with MLB. I'm not advocating that they throw a ton of money at the problem by building SOA facilities in the inner city. There are others that can do that.
MLB will continue to be the modern business model for outsourcing talent, although it looks like the Asian players will not come as cheap. I do like the idea of an international draft, and I'd bet it's soon to be a reality.
I say make the game more attractive to urban kids and they'll start showing up. Education goes a long way towards solving problems. A little work on fine tuning the image of baseball, as it is viewed in today's culture, may do the trick.
It may be that MLB has already recognized a working strategy, as evidenced by the wonderful homage to Willie Mays and some new TV ads. And it maybe that they're waiting for the steroid clouds to disperse before making a big push.
The dilemma lies in getting these kids onto the field, and learning to love the game once they get there. How ya gonna do that? You put a face on it that you'll recognize, you make it fair, you make it fun, and you make it look like it'll maybe take you somewhere.
As I've already mentioned, a big part of the problem is a perceived lack of college opportunities for black athletes in baseball. More schollys would be a good thing for all of college baseball. JMHO, and maybe that topic is best saved for another thread.
Another part is the perceived fast track to a professional career via basketball and football. As PG pointed out so clearly, that aint necessarily the case. There are, it seems, a lot more opportunities in pro baseball than there are in the other two sports combined.
I'll also echo the comments from TripleDad. My dad worked too, and he was too busy to get involved with my pursuit of baseball other than buying me my first glove and watching a handful of games. I never even played catch with my old man. He did manage to brainwash me on the greatness of the Giants, and he did instill a deep respect for the MLB, but I really learned to love the game as a player. I just can't buy the George Will argument as the genesis of the problem.
I don't think the problem lies in a lack of parental involvement at or on the baseball field. But we make it sound as if you can't learn the game without a dad with a private coaching staff and very deep pockets. How do we change that perception?
The signs point toward a marketing problem with MLB. I'm not advocating that they throw a ton of money at the problem by building SOA facilities in the inner city. There are others that can do that.
MLB will continue to be the modern business model for outsourcing talent, although it looks like the Asian players will not come as cheap. I do like the idea of an international draft, and I'd bet it's soon to be a reality.
I say make the game more attractive to urban kids and they'll start showing up. Education goes a long way towards solving problems. A little work on fine tuning the image of baseball, as it is viewed in today's culture, may do the trick.
It may be that MLB has already recognized a working strategy, as evidenced by the wonderful homage to Willie Mays and some new TV ads. And it maybe that they're waiting for the steroid clouds to disperse before making a big push.
The dilemma lies in getting these kids onto the field, and learning to love the game once they get there. How ya gonna do that? You put a face on it that you'll recognize, you make it fair, you make it fun, and you make it look like it'll maybe take you somewhere.
quote:I say make the game more attractive to urban kids and they'll start showing up. Education goes a long way towards solving problems. A little work on fine tuning the image of baseball, as it is viewed in today's culture, may do the trick.
My response, more smartypants than sincere: How's this urban image thing working out for the NBA and NFL?
More money - probably
Better product - questionable
Better image - I don't think so.
Maybe I'm just nostalgic and like baseball the way it is. (...or should I say the way it was before the DH.
)
Just some thoughts
I still believe that the dwindling numbers of inner city and black players IS a real problem. And I still believe it is the largest issue for professional baseball, more than anyone or anything else.
I understand the college scholarship situation, but it seems in order to get something to change, it should be by those who have the most to gain. IMO That is professional baseball. The NCAA doesn’t stand to gain much if anything by promoting baseball in the inner cities.
Many of those underprivileged kids in the inner cities aren’t thinking about college scholarships… They are thinking about survival and having a better life. Many of these kids with amazing talent will never see a college campus and they simply don’t care.
Teacher Associations shouldn’t really care about BASEBALL any more than anything else. They should care about kids continuing their education and try to help those who are misguided as much as possible.
MLB does spend a fortune in the USA. More scouting, player, coaching, administrator, etc. salaries here than anywhere by far! But if we look at percentages, a MLB club would be plain stupid to ignore Latin America. Just check out the All Star rosters each year.
IMO… The problem is that professional baseball does not promote their most obvious advantages. No these things can not be found on ESPN, the local newspapers or any other media. It is easy to figure it out, but nobody is promoting the fact that baseball provides more opportunities for more young athletes than any other sport! Baseball can take the poverty stricken, talented, inner city kid with no hope for college and change his life right away. No other sport can do that except for maybe boxing or something similar. By the way, boxing is full of inner city kids who came out of poverty and didn’t attend college.
Professional baseball seems to be the one to gain the most. They do a lot, but they need to promote their biggest attribute in a bigger way. And to a much different age level. Then maybe those who are so willing to help will have more to work with. For every player or person making a living in professional basketball (and I love basketball) there are a hundred making a living in professional baseball! The business of baseball is still #1! And #1 in opportunity by a long ways! That needs to be promoted everywhere and especially in the inner cities.
Just my opinion, could be all wet.
I still believe that the dwindling numbers of inner city and black players IS a real problem. And I still believe it is the largest issue for professional baseball, more than anyone or anything else.
I understand the college scholarship situation, but it seems in order to get something to change, it should be by those who have the most to gain. IMO That is professional baseball. The NCAA doesn’t stand to gain much if anything by promoting baseball in the inner cities.
Many of those underprivileged kids in the inner cities aren’t thinking about college scholarships… They are thinking about survival and having a better life. Many of these kids with amazing talent will never see a college campus and they simply don’t care.
Teacher Associations shouldn’t really care about BASEBALL any more than anything else. They should care about kids continuing their education and try to help those who are misguided as much as possible.
MLB does spend a fortune in the USA. More scouting, player, coaching, administrator, etc. salaries here than anywhere by far! But if we look at percentages, a MLB club would be plain stupid to ignore Latin America. Just check out the All Star rosters each year.
IMO… The problem is that professional baseball does not promote their most obvious advantages. No these things can not be found on ESPN, the local newspapers or any other media. It is easy to figure it out, but nobody is promoting the fact that baseball provides more opportunities for more young athletes than any other sport! Baseball can take the poverty stricken, talented, inner city kid with no hope for college and change his life right away. No other sport can do that except for maybe boxing or something similar. By the way, boxing is full of inner city kids who came out of poverty and didn’t attend college.
Professional baseball seems to be the one to gain the most. They do a lot, but they need to promote their biggest attribute in a bigger way. And to a much different age level. Then maybe those who are so willing to help will have more to work with. For every player or person making a living in professional basketball (and I love basketball) there are a hundred making a living in professional baseball! The business of baseball is still #1! And #1 in opportunity by a long ways! That needs to be promoted everywhere and especially in the inner cities.
Just my opinion, could be all wet.
Am I missing something or is minor league baseball the largest invisible professional sport in the world? The minor leagues are basicly ignored by media, except in in some of the host towns.
Good post sizzlepop 
The only thought I have is
I think the MLB marketing plan is to maximize the number of "stuffed wallets" at the gate, maximize sold appearal, maximize the MLB.tv viewership, and maximize the advertizing dollar for cable/radio mediums. I don't think developing inner-city talent is part of that plan because it is a long term venture with costs that escalate yearly, and involves buy-in from many other sources year-in and year-out. I just don't see that happening, and if it does on a large scale the emphasis should be on education and not baseball.
Education drives dreams, sports are, or should be, a by-product of education. The NBA for instance is a good example of how NOT to market a product as it only instilled false hopes and/or impossible dreams to many inner-city youth, while neglecting the majority.
quote:The signs point toward a marketing problem with MLB
I think the MLB marketing plan is to maximize the number of "stuffed wallets" at the gate, maximize sold appearal, maximize the MLB.tv viewership, and maximize the advertizing dollar for cable/radio mediums. I don't think developing inner-city talent is part of that plan because it is a long term venture with costs that escalate yearly, and involves buy-in from many other sources year-in and year-out. I just don't see that happening, and if it does on a large scale the emphasis should be on education and not baseball.
Education drives dreams, sports are, or should be, a by-product of education. The NBA for instance is a good example of how NOT to market a product as it only instilled false hopes and/or impossible dreams to many inner-city youth, while neglecting the majority.
Last year a few area people in Atlanta, started the Most Viable Prospects. They had 2 team from Georgia, one from Florida and other from Lousiana, Miss, and Alabama. All the players were black. They got the MLb scouts involved and publicised it well.
Result: features by local news,AJC, Washington Post, New York Times and Baseball America.
About 30 colleges and MLB's Scouts Attended.12 players drafted.
This year being held at Georgia Tech on July 26-29, 2007.
As far as you needing a ton of money not true.You need talent and to be seen.
Have been to Puerto Rico several times on baseball tours.
The parents were very involved with their kids and they kids played hard and wanted off the island. Trust me the fields were not Yankee Stadium that they played on. Puerto Rico is alot more dangerous than most inner cities areas and they still produce ball players.
Result: features by local news,AJC, Washington Post, New York Times and Baseball America.
About 30 colleges and MLB's Scouts Attended.12 players drafted.
This year being held at Georgia Tech on July 26-29, 2007.
As far as you needing a ton of money not true.You need talent and to be seen.
Have been to Puerto Rico several times on baseball tours.
The parents were very involved with their kids and they kids played hard and wanted off the island. Trust me the fields were not Yankee Stadium that they played on. Puerto Rico is alot more dangerous than most inner cities areas and they still produce ball players.
quote:As far as you needing a ton of money not true.You need talent and to be seen.
The issue is devoping talent. There are great athletes in the inner city that have never touched a baseball. Because of parents, facilities, money, coaching, perception of the game or whatever! I bet those that were drafted in your post somehow found a way to play in their youth and develop their game.
quote:by PG: IMO… The problem is that professional baseball does not promote their most obvious advantages. No these things can not be found on ESPN
some might suggest the minor league "career path" to MLB is more visable and promoted better than any other sport anywhere
affiliated pro ball has 200+ minor league franchises thru-out the US (exclud R-level) ... then add another 100 or so Indy teams.
if they're not in your city, they're a chip shot away ..
they ARE on espn/espn2 daily (requires subsciption)
they ARE on EVERY sports page daily (25 cents)
they ARE on the NEWS at 6 & 11 daily (free)
games are broadcast on radio or tv (free)
want more?
milb owners are famous for keeping their their team/guys in the media & community spotlight with inovative promotions.
milb attendance is setting records, the players live in the community, do community service stuff, make appearances, & hold camps & instruction at little or no cost.
players are accessable and are happy to talk young players.
game day seats can often be had for less the the price of a happy meal.
one could conclude there must be another reason baseball is not the game of choice for inner city youth
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
I understand the college scholarship situation, but it seems in order to get something to change, it should be by those who have the most to gain. IMO That is professional baseball. The NCAA doesn’t stand to gain much if anything by promoting baseball in the inner cities.
They actually do, now, since the Supreme Court just ruled that race can not be used to qualify admissions. Colleges will be forced to find other ways of diversifying their student bodies. Student athletes could very well be part of that equation.
Wouldn't it be great to see orgs combine efforts to tackle the issue? MLB, NCAA, NAACP, and city gov't officials who have a vested interest in promoting their own city. Yeah... right!
Great point Dad04 re: the "invisible" MILB.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
Education drives dreams, sports are, or should be, a by-product of education. The NBA for instance is a good example of how NOT to market a product as it only instilled false hopes and/or impossible dreams to many inner-city youth, while neglecting the majority.
Great points RZ.
I think there are a great many inner city kids with somewhat less than "amazing talent" who could be steered towards college ball. Plenty of kids looking for just about any opportunity to show what they can do. They could perhaps dream the possible dream.
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
some might suggest the minor league "career path" to MLB is more visable and promoted better than any other sport anywhere[/QUOTE]
I see you working Bee, but bigger than DI basketball (think March Madness now) or BCS football? Nah!
SzPp, I would agree that March Madness & BCS football are pretty high profile amateur venues ...
however to clarify my point - my previous milb reference was to "PRO" sports (a paid career already begun)
I do realize NE Ohio isn't the center of the world, but we have 2 "A" & 1 "AA" (inner city ballpark on the metro line) nearby ..
any youngster around here who isn't pretty aware of what's happening on those teams just doesn't want to be
hmmm, perhaps I jumped the gun above
"Center Of The World, Ohio" ... S-Rt 82 & S-Rt 5, Trumbull Co .. just 9 mi from Indians "A" M-Valley Scrappers Stadium ...
also, maybe mlb should toughen up their choir-boy image there-in might lie the answer to attracting more innner-city guys
if ya google "nfl shooting" - 2,000,000+ hits
if ya google "mlb shooting" - it asks, did you mean "mlb SHOPPING?"
however to clarify my point - my previous milb reference was to "PRO" sports (a paid career already begun)
I do realize NE Ohio isn't the center of the world, but we have 2 "A" & 1 "AA" (inner city ballpark on the metro line) nearby ..
any youngster around here who isn't pretty aware of what's happening on those teams just doesn't want to be
hmmm, perhaps I jumped the gun above
"Center Of The World, Ohio" ... S-Rt 82 & S-Rt 5, Trumbull Co .. just 9 mi from Indians "A" M-Valley Scrappers Stadium ...
also, maybe mlb should toughen up their choir-boy image
there-in might lie the answer to attracting more innner-city guysif ya google "nfl shooting" - 2,000,000+ hits
if ya google "mlb shooting" - it asks, did you mean "mlb SHOPPING?"
And if you click on Mlb + shopping you get SSMom and TigerPaw Mom's Home page 
Wow! Judging by the looks of this place in Trumball Co. I would have to say that Jules Verne really had to spice things up a bit to attract readers. I don't recall Ohio being mentioned at all.
quote:some might suggest the minor league "career path" to MLB is more visable and promoted better than any other sport anywhere
affiliated pro ball has 200+ minor league franchises thru-out the US (exclud R-level) ... then add another 100 or so Indy teams.
if they're not in your city, they're a chip shot away ..
they ARE on espn/espn2 daily (requires subsciption)
they ARE on EVERY sports page daily (25 cents)
they ARE on the NEWS at 6 & 11 daily (free)
games are broadcast on radio or tv (free)
want more?
milb owners are famous for keeping their their team/guys in the media & community spotlight with inovative promotions.
milb attendance is setting records, the players live in the community, do community service stuff, make appearances, & hold camps & instruction at little or no cost.
players are accessable and are happy to talk young players.
game day seats can often be had for less the the price of a happy meal.
one could conclude there must be another reason baseball is not the game of choice for inner city youth
Bee, I understand your point, but must respectfully disagree if you are saying minor league baseball is so well exposed in the inner cities or outside of the Minor League towns.
Also... Where are most of the inner city and poverty stricken living. Is it in the minor league towns of America!
IMO... The majority of the inner city kids live in Major League Cities! They have never seen a minor league game and only think in terms of the Major League sports. And in some major cities with minor league teams, they have major league teams in the NBA or NFL… ie. New Orleans, Salt Lake, Portland, Indianapolis, Nashville, San Antonio, etc. Obviously minor league baseball is not the big draw in those cities.
I do not believe the opportunities in baseball are kept a secret, but I also don't think those opportunities are being promoted at all. Never have I heard those opportunities promoted on ESPN or any other media. Coverage of Minor League baseball is not very visible for free viewing. Not much newspaper coverage of minor league baseball in MLB cities.
They didn't locate the majority of RBI programs in Minor League cities. Kids who grow up in Minor League cities are likely to get the message. Kids who grow up in the inner city aren't getting the message IMO. Those same kids are not the bulk of those who attend the Major League games in their city. I'm fairly sure many of these people don't understand the opportunities available in baseball.
I think professional baseball needs to figure out how to promote this distinct advantage in opportunity they have over other sports. In the best interest of the game IMO.
BTW, I didn't just start thinking about this today. It has been a long process of researching this problem that will continue. And yes, I believe it is a problem.
Minor League baseball is not a topic of any interest in the inner cities. College baseball might be a big deal to us here, but in the inner cities how does it compare in exposure to College Football or Basketball?
There are many of the largest newspapers in the country that hardly cover minor league baseball at all. I seldom see any minor league coverage on WGN or other big city stations. Games are not broadcast in the bigger cities. The problem is not about minor league towns… It is about the major inner cities in this country, like Chicago, LA, New York, etc., etc. Do those young people know that baseball provides more opportunities than any other sport. Not just being a player either. I don’t think that has been promoted well enough. Others might think it is!
I know i've talked about the game we all played as youth when you didn't have enough to field 2 full teams.
Work-up.
If that was promoted as a way to play the game as a rec league.
Just like pick-up game's on the outdoor basketball courts.
No money involved except the equipment.
Rules are simple.
Just a thought.
EH
Work-up.
If that was promoted as a way to play the game as a rec league.
Just like pick-up game's on the outdoor basketball courts.
No money involved except the equipment.
Rules are simple.
Just a thought.
EH
bandits...
I've walked in those shoes, thank you.
One taped up baseball for an entire summer.
Hand me down gloves with holes in them.
Bats that you put a small screw in and either use duct tape or electrical tape.
In baseball, all you need is one buddy...2 or 3 others and you have a full team.
Played every day from the time after I finished delivery morning papers until about 8 at night...when we went to the streets to play: Old mans' last step; or buck-buck; or, kick the can until we were told to come inside at about 11.
No one needs showcases; tournaments; fancy uniforms.
Need some talent and the heart to play baseball.
I've walked in those shoes, thank you.
One taped up baseball for an entire summer.
Hand me down gloves with holes in them.
Bats that you put a small screw in and either use duct tape or electrical tape.
In baseball, all you need is one buddy...2 or 3 others and you have a full team.
Played every day from the time after I finished delivery morning papers until about 8 at night...when we went to the streets to play: Old mans' last step; or buck-buck; or, kick the can until we were told to come inside at about 11.
No one needs showcases; tournaments; fancy uniforms.
Need some talent and the heart to play baseball.
quote:by PG: The majority of the inner city kids live in Major League Cities! ... I do not believe the opportunities in baseball are kept a secret, but I also don't think those opportunities are being promoted at all.
by mlb:
Reviving Baseball in Inner Cities (RBI) is entering its 19th season in 2007.
more than 200 cities
up to 120,000 participants a year
mlb invested in excess of $30 million
teams, community and private funds accounted for many millions more
In 1998, the RBI World Series expanded to 30 teams and moved to the Disney's Wide World of Sports complex
In 2002 RBI World Series hosted by Chicago White Sox at U.S. Cellular Field.
In 2003 RBI World Series hosted by Houston at Minute Maid Park
In 2004 RBI World Series was hosted by Detroit at Comerica Park
In 2005 RBI World Series was hosted by Pittsburgh at PNC
In 2006/2007 the RBI World Series moved to the Major League Baseball Urban Youth Academy in Compton, CA
from a marketing view it would seem that if positive results aren't seen in 18+ yrs, few factors warrant further attention
1) need more money?
2) need more time?
3) need different product?
4) need to target a different group?
btw, why no "mlb youth academies" in Detroit, Chicago, Houston, NY, or Cleveland
ok, I'll add the 5th option for ya to chew on
what WILL work is to ...
support a program to train & model (very high quality/high character) inner city hs BASEBALL coaches in the Ted Ginn Sr mold - (Cleveland Glenville HS), buying into his program that athletics is a vehicle to further your academic/athletic opportunites, build character & better your life.
target a few hs in each major city for these guys to coach/teach/mentor.
baseball players w/in the city district attend these "baseball schools".
their athletic & academic success lead to more players, better athletes & more success
his program has thrived and is known nationwide for "world class" football & track student-athletes
the same would work for inner city hs baseball players and could be started on a small scale in a few cities, then more added
Ted Ginn, the man with medicine
what could'a been if Mo Clarett has attended Glenville insteada Harding
what WILL work is to ...
support a program to train & model (very high quality/high character) inner city hs BASEBALL coaches in the Ted Ginn Sr mold - (Cleveland Glenville HS), buying into his program that athletics is a vehicle to further your academic/athletic opportunites, build character & better your life.
target a few hs in each major city for these guys to coach/teach/mentor.
baseball players w/in the city district attend these "baseball schools".
their athletic & academic success lead to more players, better athletes & more success
his program has thrived and is known nationwide for "world class" football & track student-athletes
the same would work for inner city hs baseball players and could be started on a small scale in a few cities, then more added
Ted Ginn, the man with medicine
what could'a been if Mo Clarett has attended Glenville insteada Harding
BEE
World class football and track athletes doesnt necessarily translate into top flight baseball players--
World class football and track athletes doesnt necessarily translate into top flight baseball players--
TR, Ginn was an example of what a quality coach/mentor can accompish -
the idea would be to do for baseball players what Ginn has done w/football & track guys/gals
perhaps if Troy Smith (Heisman) had a quality baseball coach/mentor in HS he may have chosen a different path other than lucking out w/OSUs last available scholly right before the nli date -
one one hand, his football prospects were being buried in the depth chart and expected to maybe contribute eventually to the scout team -
that may not have looked as good if he had a pro baseball contract "in his other hand"
the idea would be to do for baseball players what Ginn has done w/football & track guys/gals
perhaps if Troy Smith (Heisman) had a quality baseball coach/mentor in HS he may have chosen a different path other than lucking out w/OSUs last available scholly right before the nli date -
one one hand, his football prospects were being buried in the depth chart and expected to maybe contribute eventually to the scout team -
that may not have looked as good if he had a pro baseball contract "in his other hand"
.
While I can appreciate and value a high end program...
...IMO it will only be as good as it's ability to stimulate a revival of youth leagues with broad participation...
...It's simply a numbers game in any sport...
...It is why baseball has been so strong overall for so long...even with the advent and strong promotion of other youth sports baseball still touches vast #'s of young men...
Give me #'s...
44
While I can appreciate and value a high end program...
...IMO it will only be as good as it's ability to stimulate a revival of youth leagues with broad participation...
...It's simply a numbers game in any sport...
...It is why baseball has been so strong overall for so long...even with the advent and strong promotion of other youth sports baseball still touches vast #'s of young men...
Give me #'s...
44
Did the promotion of basketball by the NBA actually put more elite players on the NBA courts or did it sell more NBA merchandise? Theres a fine line between the appearance of helping a community and extorting it for the sake of profit. The bottom line of promoting anything is the return on your investment dollar. I think MLB did their math and found that their development dollar is better off being spent elsewhere. There will always be a token gesture of funneling money into the inner-city for the sake of publicity, but investing it for a return in the form of inner-city prospects I don't feel is a good business decision with regard to what would have to be invested long term.
If the real prospects that have passion for the game are looking for support, MLB should be there with programs in place and ready to go. If MLB asked me how to promote baseball in the inner-city that is the direction I would suggest. Identify your true prospects as they stand today, help them move through the process, and in return they will go back to the neighborhoods and instill that passion on others. You build from within, not by flooding the neighborhoods corporate dollars. Before the NBA started marketing the inner-city as it does today, players like Chamberlain, Big O, Reed, Magic, and many other black players from late 60's and 70's took the word back to the streets except their message was not false hope, it was that education and hard work would provide an escape from poverty.
It's a shame because the athletic ability with the kids in the inner-cities could change the whole mentality of the game. Smallball and speed could become a bigger part of th game. Theres been great thoughts by people on the board who know more than I but I feel baseball, like golf, sokker, hockey, and others, will never be a sport that is adopted by the athletes of the inner-city with a snap of a finger, a twitch of a nose, or the dollar bill. IMHO. If we want to infuse funds into the inner-cities lets do it where all those who have needs are equally benefited if they so desire, and that is education.
If the real prospects that have passion for the game are looking for support, MLB should be there with programs in place and ready to go. If MLB asked me how to promote baseball in the inner-city that is the direction I would suggest. Identify your true prospects as they stand today, help them move through the process, and in return they will go back to the neighborhoods and instill that passion on others. You build from within, not by flooding the neighborhoods corporate dollars. Before the NBA started marketing the inner-city as it does today, players like Chamberlain, Big O, Reed, Magic, and many other black players from late 60's and 70's took the word back to the streets except their message was not false hope, it was that education and hard work would provide an escape from poverty.
It's a shame because the athletic ability with the kids in the inner-cities could change the whole mentality of the game. Smallball and speed could become a bigger part of th game. Theres been great thoughts by people on the board who know more than I but I feel baseball, like golf, sokker, hockey, and others, will never be a sport that is adopted by the athletes of the inner-city with a snap of a finger, a twitch of a nose, or the dollar bill. IMHO. If we want to infuse funds into the inner-cities lets do it where all those who have needs are equally benefited if they so desire, and that is education.
The RBI program has accomplished some wonderful things. Yet the fact is the results have been not so great. Just throwing money at something is a waste of money!
Regarding THIS topic, how can anyone think the RBI program has worked well for baseball. What it has done is even more important, though, it has helped many young people understand the importance of education and given hope to some.
Back to the topic, we all played with nails in bats and taped up balls without any showcases or recognition. That was then, this is now! Those good old days are long gone, unfortunately.
CD, Trying to find villains or place blame is counter productive. Understanding there is a problem and trying to find solutions is the answer. I like “Bee’s” idea modeled after what Ginn is doing. Actually the same type of thing is done by some former ML players, maybe not to the extent that Ginn is taking it.
IMO, In order to find a solution you have to totally understand the subject matter. We have talked to many of the nations top black baseball players and there parents over the years. We never see a player as black or white, only as a player, but sometimes the time is right to discuss these issues. There is a group of black players who have organized to deal with this problem. The Uptons, Young’s, Crawford and many others are involved. If these people think there is a problem, there must be a problem. It’s not about them because they have been very successful and are wealthy now.
OK, here is a short list of what is important in order to help.
There are a few things that inner city kids and blacks desire, just as much as all other kids from anywhere USA. Two of the most important are fame and fortune, but there are other important things.
1. Fame… Recognition can be a source of pride and cause someone to work harder. RBI and others have to provide more recognition to individuals. It’s one thing to be a great athlete or player who no one knows about, it’s all together different being a great athlete/player who everyone knows about. Anyone who collects newspaper clippings of their son’s accomplishments should understand this. These kids need recognition and they see the most recognition comes from basketball and football. Everyone wants to be recognized, honored, respected, etc.
2. Fortune… Money is the best way to get out of poverty. Just ask Carl Crawford. No it won’t happen to every kid, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, the chances of making a living in the gigantic industry of professional baseball is much higher than all other sports. This needs to be promoted and we need to educate kids regarding this.
3. Education… Understanding can be the most important and surest way of all to get out of poverty. Problem is that some can not handle this route for one reason or another. And of course, if education is most important, the other sports provide more opportunity. As long as education is promoted as the only way out of the ghetto… Baseball will always suffer because of the number of scholarships and the unbelievable attention (FAME) given to college football and basketball.
4. Rewards... Success... At the high school level, baseball is secondary to football and basketball nearly everywhere. The televised McDonald’s High School Basketball All American game started many years ago. Since then, Nike and others have added HS all star games that are nationally televised. Even Michael Jordan has his own game! Football has been doing the same thing for years. Only five years ago did HS baseball catch on with the Aflac All American televised game. We are very proud of being the people who select the Aflac All Americans. And yes, we try hard to find the most talented kids in the country and we love it if they happen to be black, Hispanic or other inner city kids. Unfortunately, there are surely some in those inner cities that we don’t even know about. You could say it’s because of lack of exposure or recognition. We have plans to to work with leaders like RBI baseball, Rachel Robinson and others to help these kids get the recognition they deserve. Lots of people will help if things get organized. BTW, no one promotes education being #1 more than Rachel Robinson.
There’s much more, but I have to run. Before the problem can be solved, you have to believe there is a problem. No blaming anything, just go about working on solving the problem. In the end some kids will become big winners, but the biggest winner will be the game of baseball.
Regarding THIS topic, how can anyone think the RBI program has worked well for baseball. What it has done is even more important, though, it has helped many young people understand the importance of education and given hope to some.
Back to the topic, we all played with nails in bats and taped up balls without any showcases or recognition. That was then, this is now! Those good old days are long gone, unfortunately.
quote:Quote by CD
This topic is hard for me to understand. I like PG's ideas for promoting the game but at the same time I hope there is not an inference from that suggestion that baseball is to blame. In fact, I am not sure anyone is to blame and believe we are making a mistake if we are looking for villains. I don't believe it is about racism because then we would not be able to explain football and basketball. Maybe football and basketball are the "villains" here.
Maybe technology has changed things. Growing up, we had three TV channels to chose from. Now most basic cable services offer between 100 and 200 channels. Kids are exposed to other things nowadays. I don't believe baseball is a great TV sport like football or basketball. I believe kids choose what they are familiar with.
CD, Trying to find villains or place blame is counter productive. Understanding there is a problem and trying to find solutions is the answer. I like “Bee’s” idea modeled after what Ginn is doing. Actually the same type of thing is done by some former ML players, maybe not to the extent that Ginn is taking it.
IMO, In order to find a solution you have to totally understand the subject matter. We have talked to many of the nations top black baseball players and there parents over the years. We never see a player as black or white, only as a player, but sometimes the time is right to discuss these issues. There is a group of black players who have organized to deal with this problem. The Uptons, Young’s, Crawford and many others are involved. If these people think there is a problem, there must be a problem. It’s not about them because they have been very successful and are wealthy now.
OK, here is a short list of what is important in order to help.
There are a few things that inner city kids and blacks desire, just as much as all other kids from anywhere USA. Two of the most important are fame and fortune, but there are other important things.
1. Fame… Recognition can be a source of pride and cause someone to work harder. RBI and others have to provide more recognition to individuals. It’s one thing to be a great athlete or player who no one knows about, it’s all together different being a great athlete/player who everyone knows about. Anyone who collects newspaper clippings of their son’s accomplishments should understand this. These kids need recognition and they see the most recognition comes from basketball and football. Everyone wants to be recognized, honored, respected, etc.
2. Fortune… Money is the best way to get out of poverty. Just ask Carl Crawford. No it won’t happen to every kid, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, the chances of making a living in the gigantic industry of professional baseball is much higher than all other sports. This needs to be promoted and we need to educate kids regarding this.
3. Education… Understanding can be the most important and surest way of all to get out of poverty. Problem is that some can not handle this route for one reason or another. And of course, if education is most important, the other sports provide more opportunity. As long as education is promoted as the only way out of the ghetto… Baseball will always suffer because of the number of scholarships and the unbelievable attention (FAME) given to college football and basketball.
4. Rewards... Success... At the high school level, baseball is secondary to football and basketball nearly everywhere. The televised McDonald’s High School Basketball All American game started many years ago. Since then, Nike and others have added HS all star games that are nationally televised. Even Michael Jordan has his own game! Football has been doing the same thing for years. Only five years ago did HS baseball catch on with the Aflac All American televised game. We are very proud of being the people who select the Aflac All Americans. And yes, we try hard to find the most talented kids in the country and we love it if they happen to be black, Hispanic or other inner city kids. Unfortunately, there are surely some in those inner cities that we don’t even know about. You could say it’s because of lack of exposure or recognition. We have plans to to work with leaders like RBI baseball, Rachel Robinson and others to help these kids get the recognition they deserve. Lots of people will help if things get organized. BTW, no one promotes education being #1 more than Rachel Robinson.
There’s much more, but I have to run. Before the problem can be solved, you have to believe there is a problem. No blaming anything, just go about working on solving the problem. In the end some kids will become big winners, but the biggest winner will be the game of baseball.
if mlb's RBI #s are correct the larger cities boast 1000+ player leagues yearly & a few million players have participated in the last decade.
add to the RBI #s various city league #s, AAU #s, AABC #s, etc - and anyone would have to consider that an urban "revival" and "pretty broad participation"
so if there is indeed a problem, it is retention - not participation
these savy kids are using mlb's $$ and lavish youth programs as their own "conditioning program" for hs football & basketball
by RZ1:
"the athletic ability with the kids in the inner-cities could change the whole mentality of the game"
is suburban athletic ability different from urban ability?
(rhetorical Q)
add to the RBI #s various city league #s, AAU #s, AABC #s, etc - and anyone would have to consider that an urban "revival" and "pretty broad participation"
so if there is indeed a problem, it is retention - not participation
these savy kids are using mlb's $$ and lavish youth programs as their own "conditioning program" for hs football & basketball
by RZ1:
"the athletic ability with the kids in the inner-cities could change the whole mentality of the game"
is suburban athletic ability different from urban ability?
(rhetorical Q)