NCAA announce recruiting rule changes

How are kids supposed to decide on committing to a program without seeing all the facilities?  I suppose that is the point, trying to slow early commits.

I was going to say — isn't that the point?

Thanks for sharing.   Interesting.   So, I'm hopeful this helps the recruit and his parents make more informed decisions.   There is a lot of market and peer pressure to verbally commit....I've seen it up close.   We'll see if these rules or guidelines help with (possibly) the first & biggest decision this young man will make at a ripe old age of 16.

It takes a lot of discipline and self-awareness to say "no" at 16 and wait for something better to come around. 

Good luck!

I’m not optimistic that this change will benefit the early recruit. There will still be pressure to commit, but with less information. If my freshman has interest from Florida, Vandy and UNC… he’s going to want to commit. Now his only direct contact with those programs will be on the phone and electronic?

So right now is the time to go on unofficial visits if you have a sophomore or freshman wanting to takes a look at schools up close is my assumption. What is the date that is considered next school year start? We are putting the brakes on a bit, hoping to just make HS and travel a good experience. It was crazy starting to have conversations with my 15 yr old on where he thinks that he would want to go to college. It also may have been putting a little more game pressure on him thinking he had to perform great every moment of every game. An attempt to try to be on radar by sophomore year or sooner. We had a discussion about these rules last night. I think the summer after Sophomore year would be more fitting for unofficial visits. By then Reality may have started to set in on what kind of school you should even be looking at. I can see it also making kids wait to commit. Which means kids that would be out of the recruiting pool naturally because of being an early commit, will now be mixed in with the rest. Definitely going to be bidding wars, and LOTS of pressure on our young ball players.

Why are athletes being treated differently from students looking at the academic/social side of a campus?

We began visiting campus's by eighth grade. Not for baseball - but to begin to get the kids a familiarity with college campuses in general. As the years passed, both kids would occasionally even walk into various academic departments and find professors and engage (happened, for example, before junior year, at Davidson, UNC, Princeton, Dartmouth, Hopkins) which would inevitably lead to a tour of the department. By 10th grade, S would drop in to the baseball coaches office (transcript in hand); he would be treated pretty much the same as a random academic department drop-in (I.e., a tour if time was right).

So, why is it fine for my engineering inclined daughter to hunt down the head of the engineering department during 10th grade spring break and discuss admissions and facilities, but not fine for my baseball inclined son to do the same thing for baseball?

I have mixed feelings about this.  I think you will see attendance at Camps go through the roof though.

I think it would have made more sense to make the start of unofficial visits the end of sophomore school year so you could have that summer.  Now by waiting until the start of the junior year, kids may have to miss school....or football practices if they are playing football also.  I guess this doesn't stop kids from visiting the school, and if the baseball field happens to be "unlocked" I'm sure they are free to just "walk in and take a look around"   you just won't get a guided tour.   Why didn't they just do it the easy way.  Schools can't offer....and kids can't commit until the start of their sophomore year?   

I don’t think the rule change is going to help recruits or deter early commitments. Coaches will find a way to work around the rule like they do with all the other rules. Now kids will have to pay for a camp to see athletic facilities?  

I don't like it.  It is hard enough to make decisions on where you might fit, but even harder if you can't see the program.  It is hard logistically and financially to do all of your visits in a short period of time.  We've done several and I still think my son has a hard time knowing if a school seems right and we have a lot more to see.  That said, I think they have been beneficial.  My son is a 2020, so does this mean that he would be able to meet with coaches  during visits most of next year?  

baseballhs posted:

I don't like it.  It is hard enough to make decisions on where you might fit, but even harder if you can't see the program.  It is hard logistically and financially to do all of your visits in a short period of time.  We've done several and I still think my son has a hard time knowing if a school seems right and we have a lot more to see.  That said, I think they have been beneficial.  My son is a 2020, so does this mean that he would be able to meet with coaches  during visits most of next year?  

According to the rule, he can after the start of junior year.....which I'm thinking that they will mean when school starts in the fall.   As I said earlier, why not make it the end of their sophomore year....so they could visit this summer.  College coaches are practicing in the fall....it's a very busy time for them...seems like it would make more sense to allow the visits over the summer....kids don't miss school and coaches/teams aren't practicing.

Agree, sophomore season makes sense. Now colleges will make a ton of money on camps. Might be the logic in some ways. I also believe that you should be able to pop in and at least see what the school has to offer, whether it may academic or athletic that should not matter.

MidAtlanticDad posted:

I’m not optimistic that this change will benefit the early recruit. There will still be pressure to commit, but with less information. If my freshman has interest from Florida, Vandy and UNC… he’s going to want to commit. Now his only direct contact with those programs will be on the phone and electronic?

bullet34 posted:

So right now is the time to go on unofficial visits if you have a sophomore or freshman wanting to takes a look at schools up close is my assumption. What is the date that is considered next school year start? We are putting the brakes on a bit, hoping to just make HS and travel a good experience. It was crazy starting to have conversations with my 15 yr old on where he thinks that he would want to go to college. It also may have been putting a little more game pressure on him thinking he had to perform great every moment of every game. An attempt to try to be on radar by sophomore year or sooner. We had a discussion about these rules last night. I think the summer after Sophomore year would be more fitting for unofficial visits. By then Reality may have started to set in on what kind of school you should even be looking at. I can see it also making kids wait to commit. Which means kids that would be out of the recruiting pool naturally because of being an early commit, will now be mixed in with the rest. Definitely going to be bidding wars, and LOTS of pressure on our young ball players.

I agree with both of these lines of thinking, but let me add different possible angle. The bidding war for the younger kids (mainly talking 2021s) is likely to start now and run until the changes take affect in a few months. I've already personally seen a big upswing in 2021 commits in this region over the past 6 months. Factor in that there is likely to be a bit of panic by both coaches and players to get a verbal commit locked down before the changes this fall. 

My fear is that the coaches, who have never had a downside to offering early verbals, will make as many verbal commits as they can before the change (and maybe this trend will continue after). They will do this knowing that they are going to cut a bunch of players right before signing. But they don't make the cuts until right before signing date which is still fall Senior year. They have made many more verbal commits than they need so they make the cuts and still have full rosters.  Therefore, all the good quality players who don't commit early lose out unless they developed into a flat out stud who nobody would pass up. 

It also says recruiting conversations cannot take place at camps or clinics until Sept. 1 junior year.

baseballhs posted:

It also says recruiting conversations cannot take place at camps or clinics until Sept. 1 junior year.

And how exactly are they going to police that!?

 I am guessing all of the invites to stay after the camp and tour the facilities will be gone .

I'm guessing that you will have 2/3/4 camps a year.  Camps that are "open" to everyone, but only the select few actually are in attendance, and then all kids get the full dog and pony show.  Regular camps get the normal treatment. 

I could see this summer be a madhouse for the incoming Sophs and Freshman.  

Looks like schools may have to spend a lot more money on recruiting.  Right now almost all visits are "unofficial"  which is a great deal for the schools, because you have to pay.  Official visits are now mostly just a victory lap or a perk that happen long after you've committed, and in many cases, after you've signed the LOI.    Under this rule, you can't talk to a coach until Sept 1, of Junior year, which is also when you can go on a paid "official" visit.

downside for the schools- it's going to cost a lot more money.

upside for the kids-  you are going to know if they are really interested because they'll pay for a visit.  If they don't pay, you can bet you are not a priority. 

baseballhs posted:

 I am guessing all of the invites to stay after the camp and tour the facilities will be gone .

For sure. But, they can use parts of the facilities for meetings or various instruction. The bad part is, the coaches won’t be able to pick and choose. It will have to be all participants or none.  Unfortunately, the NCAA is getting more and more like our government. Often good intentions, but idiotic outcomes. 

This new rule may make the recruiting process less of a gamble for both school and student/athlete. 

From an academic standpoint, most students do not know standardized test scores until middle of their junior year of high school.  Yes there may be an exception, but typically after taking the test at least a couple of times junior year the realistic score will then be determined.  This may deter the students and schools from recruiting kids that may not be able to even get admitted.  Not sure why a kid may commit to Duke…Vandy..etc.  in 9^th grade only to find out they can qualify academically.   

From an athletic standpoint, typically a player is in the 9^th grade will not even have begun to reach their potential baseball skills or even worse, they have reached max potential and have been passed by other.  HC/RC can’t possibly know until they see some playing experience in more advanced ages (16-17) against other quality high school and travel caliber play.  We can all agree that “projection” is the key evaluation component that most HC/RC use but what about seeing the “player” over a period of time rather than rely purely on size, hype or other criteria used by the HC/RC.

The disadvantage to kids is that if you are interested in 5 schools, how likely can you fit in a visit to all of them after Sept.1 of your junior year?  Why don't they just say that a school cannot present a scholarship offer until that date?

There will also be ways around this.  They can still set up special tours of facilities for recruits and just not have them meet the coaches.

Goosegg posted:

Why are athletes being treated differently from students looking at the academic/social side of a campus?

We began visiting campus's by eighth grade. Not for baseball - but to begin to get the kids a familiarity with college campuses in general. As the years passed, both kids would occasionally even walk into various academic departments and find professors and engage (happened, for example, before junior year, at Davidson, UNC, Princeton, Dartmouth, Hopkins) which would inevitably lead to a tour of the department. By 10th grade, S would drop in to the baseball coaches office (transcript in hand); he would be treated pretty much the same as a random academic department drop-in (I.e., a tour if time was right).

So, why is it fine for my engineering inclined daughter to hunt down the head of the engineering department during 10th grade spring break and discuss admissions and facilities, but not fine for my baseball inclined son to do the same thing for baseball?

I agree, but why can't I pay tuition for the kid of a good friend who can't afford it?  I mean, if he's studying engineering I can, but if he's playing a sport I can't.  Lots of NCAA rules have unintended (negative) consequences for kids, but that doesn't seem to stop them.

NCAA 

A row of fools on a row of stools.  They did nothing to help the recruit.  They did nothing to help their constituency (themselves).  Just seeded more confusion by changing the process and instituting more rules.  Nice road trip to miss first couple of weeks of school coming up start of Jr year for some.  

This may help the 2020 recruit, being able to take an official visit start of Jr year.  My guess is they will realize this error and close that loophole.

Tweet from RC at Yale addressing rule change:

Advice for high school recruits per new NCAA legislation. Yes, official visits can now take place your junior year. But unless rules have changed, you will need to have taken the SAT/ACT prior to your visit. Summer/ fall testing dates now all the more important- plan accordingly https://t.co/NuJSPnl4Ds

(I guess this is an example of unintended consequences.)

Breaking news:

Just heard from multiple sources that the rule goes into effect next Wednesday (4/25). 

What?!? We  have to UVs planned for May.

I had read that was when they were going to vote to finalize it. Are you saying the rules were going to affect then?

pabaseballdad posted:

Looks like schools may have to spend a lot more money on recruiting.  Right now almost all visits are "unofficial"  which is a great deal for the schools, because you have to pay.  Official visits are now mostly just a victory lap or a perk that happen long after you've committed, and in many cases, after you've signed the LOI.    Under this rule, you can't talk to a coach until Sept 1, of Junior year, which is also when you can go on a paid "official" visit.

downside for the schools- it's going to cost a lot more money.

upside for the kids-  you are going to know if they are really interested because they'll pay for a visit.  If they don't pay, you can bet you are not a priority. 

I was thinking the same thing, PABaseballDad. Right now the UVs don't cost the program too much -- just three or four hours of the coach's time, and zero dollars out of pocket -- and they can help them gauge the recruit's interest. But the calculus will change when the school is paying real dollars for the visit.

baseballhs posted:

I had read that was when they were going to vote to finalize it. Are you saying the rules were going to affect then?

So, head of travel told us that he confirmed 4/25 as the “go live” date for the new rule.

My son has UV’s set up for tomorrow and 5/5. As it was explained to me, we can get tickets and tour tomorrow with baseball coaches w/o issue. 

We have not heard from the school about the May 5th UV but, according to travel coach, we would have to get our own tickets and can NOT talk to the baseball coaches during that visit. 

I don’t know how kids will get to build a relationship with coaches before their junior year. I would have understood if they moved the ability to offer and commit back but not sure how this solution is better. 

This will greatly reduce camps and clinics because one of the main reasons for going was to have time on campus with coaches.  I was told that the interpretation is that no coach can have individual time with a player even for instruction because of the perception. 

I think it will also reduce coaches being at 14U and maybe some 15U tournaments.  I understand both sides but I think it will take less pressure off kids having to make these life changing decisions early.  But September 1 will be a nightmare for kids and high schools.  Those kids that are highly sought after will get bombarded at 12:01 on September 1. 

Goosegg posted:

Why are athletes being treated differently from students looking at the academic/social side of a campus?

We began visiting campus's by eighth grade. Not for baseball - but to begin to get the kids a familiarity with college campuses in general. As the years passed, both kids would occasionally even walk into various academic departments and find professors and engage (happened, for example, before junior year, at Davidson, UNC, Princeton, Dartmouth, Hopkins) which would inevitably lead to a tour of the department. By 10th grade, S would drop in to the baseball coaches office (transcript in hand); he would be treated pretty much the same as a random academic department drop-in (I.e., a tour if time was right).

So, why is it fine for my engineering inclined daughter to hunt down the head of the engineering department during 10th grade spring break and discuss admissions and facilities, but not fine for my baseball inclined son to do the same thing for baseball?

I agree. But your daughter isnt being pressured to verbal for engineering. 

Making the date 6/1 instread of 9/1 would have been better. It would have provided kids the ability to make summer visits and not miss school.

hshuler posted:

I don’t know how kids will get to build a relationship with coaches before their junior year. I would have understood if they moved the ability to offer and commit back but not sure how this solution is better. 

 

I think that's the whole idea Shu. Coaches have junior year to get to know the player but probably watch way before anyone realizes coach is watching, that's how it used to be.  I think it also gives the coaches a break.  I have never been a fan of recruits verballing too early, not 100% sure about these new rules, but I understand from a coaches perspective how it might be beneficial to everyone. I think it also gives some less physically mature players a chance to mature and a chance where sometimes these days it's hard for many to have that edge over the premium recruits.

FWIW, DK met Sully his junior year, although pressed for a year to committ, it didn't happen until senior summer. This also gave him a chance to not get injured from pitching too much (and we know it happens) and stay healthy. 

Sometimes I don't really understand why players need to visit every school within the next 5 neighboring states, kidding but you get the idea.  It just might not make decisions as hard as it is for many.

JMO

From what I understand, I like the new rule. My 2021 was sterling to feel pressure, as some of his travel teammates have been committing. A couple before they even played a game of high school ball. A question I have is how will this impact school camps? He wanted to go to the Oregon camp this summer, because we will be up there anyway to visit family. Can they have the camp as usual, but just not talk about recruiting? A baseball camp where they just talk baseball?

This won't help with pressure.  Schools will still see kids at camps or tournaments and  contact them.  The kids just won't be able to see what the programs have to offer like they did before.  Kids will still verbally commit.  I don't see how this changes that.

There is no way that recruits having less information about a school, and a school having less information about a recruits is going to make the process better.

NCAA is a governing body created by the schools to serve their interest.  And that is just what they are doing.

BTW, it's the same for Softball in the NCAA PR release, with the additional restriction that they are not allowed to call the coaches until Sept 1st of Jr year.  Don't be surprised if the rule is expanded when the cabal votes and the new rules are enacted.

Go44dad posted:

There is no way that recruits having less information about a school, and a school having less information about a recruits is going to make the process better.

NCAA is a governing body created by the schools to serve their interest.  And that is just what they are doing.

BTW, it's the same for Softball in the NCAA PR release, with the additional restriction that they are not allowed to call the coaches until Sept 1st of Jr year.  Don't be surprised if the rule is expanded when the cabal votes and the new rules are enacted.

One last vent.  Lots of HS to be missed for recruits starting Sept 1st of Junior year.