@Wechson posted:From the President of Brown, who, needless to say, isn’t coming at this from a conservative perspective. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...ps://t.co/4zlF67sq5V
Good read. Thanks for posting. It gives me hope that there are still plenty of people with some common sense.
Sorry if this has been shared. It's long at 50 minutes. It's about to go viral in my opinion. It's a statistical analysis by two doctors (Bakersfield CA) and the gist of it is that the decisions we made initially were appropriate as we didn't have any data on the virus. However, we now have enough data to understand the spread and death rates and perhaps we should open things back up. If you get offended by comparing this to the flu skip to 20 minutes and watch from there.... It also talks about the unintended consequences of staying at home and the issues that creates (non-ecomonic issues). I have no doubt this will be ripped apart and become a political football but it's a good listen if you have the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be
Fire in the hole!
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:Sorry if this has been shared. It's long at 50 minutes. It's about to go viral in my opinion. It's a statistical analysis by two doctors (Bakersfield CA) and the gist of it is that the decisions we made initially were appropriate as we didn't have any data on the virus. However, we now have enough data to understand the spread and death rates and perhaps we should open things back up. If you get offended by comparing this to the flu skip to 20 minutes and watch from there.... It also talks about the unintended consequences of staying at home and the issues that creates (non-ecomonic issues). I have no doubt this will be ripped apart and become a political football but it's a good listen if you have the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be
Fire in the hole!
I'm sure more and more medical professionals will get their voices out there--voices of reason. The tide will be turning very soon and it's going to get ugly.
Because as Americans, we should all feel ashamed of ourselves.
Thanks for posting this, I don't feel as alone as I did this morning.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:Sorry if this has been shared. It's long at 50 minutes. It's about to go viral in my opinion. It's a statistical analysis by two doctors (Bakersfield CA) and the gist of it is that the decisions we made initially were appropriate as we didn't have any data on the virus. However, we now have enough data to understand the spread and death rates and perhaps we should open things back up. If you get offended by comparing this to the flu skip to 20 minutes and watch from there.... It also talks about the unintended consequences of staying at home and the issues that creates (non-ecomonic issues). I have no doubt this will be ripped apart and become a political football but it's a good listen if you have the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be
Fire in the hole!
I saw that several days ago, eye opening to say the least. I HATE that our media has become the disgrace that is. However, democracy takes work, do your own research and make you own decision.
At some point, this is coming down to "I don't want to die from covid-19, I don't care if it screws my kids". I'm 58, a little overweight but I do run and work out. Might/might not have some underlying conditions. The future isn't mine, it's my children's, and now their children's. I worry about what we are leaving for them. Open things up, I'll take my chances, just like I do every day in so many other ways.
Gunner, “fire in the hole!” That made me laugh. Thanks so much for the video link. I already watched the whole thing, with an open mind. I like the fact that data was presented. Reporters tried to bait the docs, but they stuck with the data. I hope they are heard and the video doesn’t get removed from youtube.
@anotherparent posted:Good, back to sports. It's well-known that a majority of D1 football programs lose money (just google "college football lose money"). Could not having football for a year actually help those athletic departments? Just travel alone, I would think. Many D1 schools with money-losing football programs have baseball. So, how would not having football at those schools hurt baseball?
AP,
I’ll try and work around “stuff” with a new article I read about D1and golf.
One proposal before the NCAA is to allow D1 status to continue while schools drop below the minimum 16 supported teams.
If approved, non-revenue sports (BASEBALL) can be cut!
the NCAA denied the blanket waiver request.
The requests can be made and will be considered case by case. There could be a lot of D1 baseball programs at risk. Most are non-revenue and very expensive!
Would make zero sense to have students on campus in crowded dorm rooms and classrooms but not allowing sports even in empty or semi empty stadiums
https://www.documentcloud.org/...as-Report-FINAL.html
Here is Texas plan to re-open. Outdoor sports are currently limited to 4 or less participants. See page 38.
@infielddad posted:One proposal before the NCAA is to allow D1 status to continue while schools drop below the minimum 16 supported teams.If approved, non-revenue sports (BASEBALL) can be cut!
the NCAA denied the blanket waiver request.The requests can be made and will be considered case by case. There could be a lot of D1 baseball programs at risk. Most are non-revenue and very expensive!
Yes, o.k., that makes sense, if NCAA passes it. I wonder whether they would do that, assuming that the football absence is to be a one-year thing (we hope). I guess the point is that most schools would be happy to take advantage of the opportunity to cut some non-revenue sports?
Honestly, the whole thing becomes a spiral. Why do educational institutions have sports at all? Originally because they wanted to be able to offer their students the opportunity to compete in athletics. So if that remains the rationale, then you have to keep all those non-revenue sports. If money-making and entertainment are the main rationales, then does that belong at a college?
Here is a story about the upcoming Fall for Universities. I know my University is developing a contingency plan.
Absolutely insane.
Here’s a glimmer of hope in Virginia. We can only hope the other schools in the state and around the country also come to their senses.
https://www.radford.edu/conten.../fall-reopening.html
Millions of cases; small amount of death. Quarantine the sick.
@ABSORBER posted:Here’s a glimmer of hope in Virginia. We can only hope the other schools in the state and around the country also come to their senses.
https://www.radford.edu/conten.../fall-reopening.html
Millions of cases; small amount of death. Quarantine the sick.
Quarantine the sick AND high risk.
@RoadRunner posted:Quarantine the sick AND high risk.
That would be their choice. Currently nobody has a choice.
But I get what you are saying.
@anotherparent posted:Honestly, the whole thing becomes a spiral. Why do educational institutions have sports at all? Originally because they wanted to be able to offer their students the opportunity to compete in athletics. So if that remains the rationale, then you have to keep all those non-revenue sports. If money-making and entertainment are the main rationales, then does that belong at a college?
Colleges have sports because it builds the brand, which brings in money. It's much easier to build a winning sports program than to build an elite academic reputation. It doesn't have to be football - Gonzaga, Villanova, UConn and others have leveraged sports into a national reputation.
Given a choice of two similar academic experiences, I think most kids would want to attend a school with a great athletic vibe.
Does anyone think this situation could result in some permanent conference realignments? Would a school be able to use this to get out of a conference agreement and join another conference?
@ABSORBER posted:That would be their choice. Currently nobody has a choice.
But I get what you are saying.
Quarantine was not the correct word since quarantine is imposed. I get what you’re saying 🙂
@RoadRunner posted:Quarantine was not the correct word since quarantine is imposed. I get what you’re saying 🙂
I used quarantine because throughout history quarantine was imposed on those who were sick. I don't believe it should be imposed on those who are at risk as it should be their choice. And definitely not imposed on the healthy! How else can we continue to function as a society? Even with our current "lockdown" we continue to function so are we really quarantined? I say medically no, but economically yes.
But really I was just quoting my two new favorite CA doctors... 🙂
@ABSORBER posted:I used quarantine because throughout history quarantine was imposed on those who were sick. I don't believe it should be imposed on those who are at risk as it should be their choice. And definitely not imposed on the healthy! How else can we continue to function as a society? Even with our current "lockdown" we continue to function so are we really quarantined? I say medically no, but economically yes.
But really I was just quoting my two new favorite CA doctors... 🙂
Your statement using the words quarantine the sick were absolutely correct choice of words. It’s my use of the word quarantine, referring to those at risk that is a poor choice.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Does anyone think this situation could result in some permanent conference realignments? Would a school be able to use this to get out of a conference agreement and join another conference?
I think there will be some of this in the case of group of 5 or FCS schools.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:Sorry if this has been shared. It's long at 50 minutes. It's about to go viral in my opinion. It's a statistical analysis by two doctors (Bakersfield CA) and the gist of it is that the decisions we made initially were appropriate as we didn't have any data on the virus. However, we now have enough data to understand the spread and death rates and perhaps we should open things back up. If you get offended by comparing this to the flu skip to 20 minutes and watch from there.... It also talks about the unintended consequences of staying at home and the issues that creates (non-ecomonic issues). I have no doubt this will be ripped apart and become a political football but it's a good listen if you have the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be
Fire in the hole!
Wow! Very scary that this video has been removed from youtube. I am so glad you posted and I had the opportunity to watch. I had a feeling this might happen to the video, but was hoping liberty would prevail.
@RoadRunner posted:Wow! Very scary that this video has been removed from youtube. I am so glad you posted and I had the opportunity to watch. I had a feeling this might happen to the video, but was hoping liberty would prevail.
It's still there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJTW1lTfTM
Now in all one segment over an hour long instead of a 51 minute segment and a 12 minute segment.
@FoxDad posted:It's still there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJTW1lTfTM
Now in all one segment over an hour long instead of a 51 minute segment and a 12 minute segment.
Well, not still there but rather another upload. No guarantee it will remain there! But I'm sure someone else will just load it again!
@James G posted:Absolutely insane.
It is the Atlantic, you have better chance of little green men storming DC
@RoadRunner posted:Wow! Very scary that this video has been removed from youtube. I am so glad you posted and I had the opportunity to watch. I had a feeling this might happen to the video, but was hoping liberty would prevail.
Someone must have saved the video and reposted. It can be found by searching “Dr Erickson COVID.”
@old_school posted:It is the Atlantic, you have better chance of little green men storming DC
Dr Erickson’s video was removed as You Tube will not allow information that disagrees with the WHO. It’s pure censorship of free speech, of dissent. Is this the direction of the country?
@RJM posted:Dr Erickson’s video was removed as You Tube will not allow information that disagrees with the WHO. It’s pure censorship of free speech, of dissent. Is this the direction of the country?
🙏God I hope not.
Well, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine issued a joint statement on physician information, stating that "These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19":
https://www.acep.org/corona/CO...cian-misinformation/
Now, it may indeed be censorship to remove videos that provide misleading information, but on the other hand, isn't YouTube a private company? So, aren't they free to do what they like? Censorship would be if the government told them to take it down.
They are private. But when all of the main social media outlets lean one way and censor info they don’t like, that’s dangerous. Everything about covid 19 has been misinformation/trial and error. L
It is unfortunate that anyone had to pass from this virus. But based on the numbers and trends in my old home state of Ohio, I'm betting the Buckeyes are full go this fall in the classroom and on the gridiron.
753 total total deaths in a state of 11.5 million
0 under the age of 30,
16 under the age of 50,
median age of 79
364 of those deaths being age 80 or greater
In my adopted home state of Georgia with a population of 10.6 million and 1,033 total deaths, that has taken ridiculous criticism from all sides, the graph of daily toll from Covid-19 per the Georgia Department of Health looks like this:
Yes, there will be continue more unfortunate deaths in OH, GA, and the rest US. But the classes will be full in Athens, the Dawgs will be barking. As they will in most areas of the country.
Unreasonable people will continue to regurgitate Fauci, Trump, the media, and BS medical organizations that don't really care about you and your well-being. Reasonable people won't believe me, the media, Dr Fauci, the docs in Bakersfield, Trump, Pence, etc. Reasonable people will continue or start viewing the data themselves and decide for themselves. If they do this, campuses will be back, sports will be back, and our country will be back. I know we are still mostly reasonable.
@anotherparent posted:Well, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine issued a joint statement on physician information, stating that "These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19":
https://www.acep.org/corona/CO...cian-misinformation/
Now, it may indeed be censorship to remove videos that provide misleading information, but on the other hand, isn't YouTube a private company? So, aren't they free to do what they like? Censorship would be if the government told them to take it down.
I don't know AP - earlier today you were downplaying the opinion of an emergency physician since he wasn't an epidemiologist and tonight you are using emergency physician associations as arguments to prove other doctors' opinions are not relevant. I am sure you will square that circle....
@anotherparent posted:Well, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine issued a joint statement on physician information, stating that "These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19":
https://www.acep.org/corona/CO...cian-misinformation/
Now, it may indeed be censorship to remove videos that provide misleading information, but on the other hand, isn't YouTube a private company? So, aren't they free to do what they like? Censorship would be if the government told them to take it down.
Hell yes it’s censorship, and its your opinion that the info is misleading and for YouTube to play Big Brother and censor information provided by practicing physicians is a TRAVESTY. If what the doctors did was so bad take their license but never censor them.,If they are wrong their practice will go under. I hope they sue YouTube for violating the constitution. Let informed adults make informed decisions PERIOD
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:I don't know AP - earlier today you were downplaying the opinion of an emergency physician since he wasn't an epidemiologist and tonight you are using emergency physician associations as arguments to prove other doctors' opinions are not relevant. I am sure you will square that circle....
The doctors on YouTube were not epidemiologists either, so what's your point? There are epidemiologists and biologists who say that their methodology was very flawed:
https://calmatters.org/health/...-spread-conclusions/
https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstr.../1254481543759683584
There are more detailed critiques out there, too. The organizations that condemned the YouTube doctors are not one doctor, they are representatives of large numbers of doctors. They are doing the right thing by saying that bad science should not be used as evidence for action.
At base, there is little dispute (although there are questions) that getting everyone sick will create herd immunity. That is what all these doctors are pushing. What people dispute is how many people will die to achieve that. The YouTube doctors' methodology is very flawed, and their estimates of the infection rate, which are not at all representative, are used to minimize the number of deaths. The NY doctor had no methodology, he just had intuition.
Let's say we open everything up right now. Most people aren't going to go back to normal immediately, without a lot more reassurance than bad science. Everyone from the CDC and the Task Force on down understand that they need to be able to reassure everyone that the benefits of opening will be better than the risks. Yes, the economic damage is terrible, but it won't get better without confidence across the country. Just saying "lots of people have to die to achieve herd immunity" does not really inspire confidence in individuals. Why don't we wait until we can offer more reassurance that we know what to do with people who get sick?
I strongly believe that there will very soon be good data on which to base decisions, and that there will be treatments, and even vaccines, by late summer. I hope as much as anyone that colleges will start up on schedule.
For Orange County people
https://www.foxla.com/news/the...tter_impression=true
Ohioians...seems odd...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news.../ar-BB13hCGg?ocid=st
Illinois turn of events
https://www.washingtonexaminer...tter_impression=true
anotherparent I’m not sure if you watched the video of the doctors but they never stated their goal was herd immunity. They stated the CV was much more prevalent among the population than the scientific community thought as the USC study found. Stanford also found similar rates of infection. https://pressroom.usc.edu/prel...d-19-study-released/
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten...020.04.14.20062463v1
The real issue, and many are taking notice, is the attempt by media, government and influencers to squelch any dissenting thought or opinion. This is more dangerous than a dozen Coronaviruses.
@anotherparent posted:The doctors on YouTube were not epidemiologists either, so what's your point? There are epidemiologists and biologists who say that their methodology was very flawed:
https://calmatters.org/health/...-spread-conclusions/
https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstr.../1254481543759683584
There are more detailed critiques out there, too. The organizations that condemned the YouTube doctors are not one doctor, they are representatives of large numbers of doctors. They are doing the right thing by saying that bad science should not be used as evidence for action.
At base, there is little dispute (although there are questions) that getting everyone sick will create herd immunity. That is what all these doctors are pushing. What people dispute is how many people will die to achieve that. The YouTube doctors' methodology is very flawed, and their estimates of the infection rate, which are not at all representative, are used to minimize the number of deaths. The NY doctor had no methodology, he just had intuition.
Let's say we open everything up right now. Most people aren't going to go back to normal immediately, without a lot more reassurance than bad science. Everyone from the CDC and the Task Force on down understand that they need to be able to reassure everyone that the benefits of opening will be better than the risks. Yes, the economic damage is terrible, but it won't get better without confidence across the country. Just saying "lots of people have to die to achieve herd immunity" does not really inspire confidence in individuals. Why don't we wait until we can offer more reassurance that we know what to do with people who get sick?
I strongly believe that there will very soon be good data on which to base decisions, and that there will be treatments, and even vaccines, by late summer. I hope as much as anyone that colleges will start up on schedule.
So what's the end game? Where do you suppose the virus is going to go? Will it disappear? Go into hiding? Or cease to exist? What "good" data do you think we are waiting for? What do you suppose that data going to tell us? Here are some possibilities:
1. We've all been infected and people died. Go back to normal except wait, we haven't proved antibodies will prevent us from getting it again. So there is no need to wait on a vaccine because it won't work anyway. So perhaps we should remain in lockdown.
2. We haven't all been infected yet even though a lot of people died so we should all remain in lockdown for a virus that's not going away. After all, we don't want more people to die. Wait on vaccine except, wait, it may not work because antibodies may not protect us.
3. Half the population is infected so we need to remain in lockdown so the other half doesn't get infected. Should we be waiting on that vaccine?
4. Some different ratio of the previous three. And still wait on that vaccine?
Sounds like the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine jointly and emphatically have this all figured out. Because they sure seem pretty confident making that statement.
That H1N1pdn09 virus is still hanging around killing people. Guess we should still be in hiding from that pandemic 11 years ago. Because the swine flu sure hasn't gone away. Oh yeah. it originated in California. Maybe China and the rest of the world should have sued us for letting it spread around the world.
Keep waiting on that reassurance.
The rest of us will use common sense.
I hope it's all true about the numbers infected. Those other CA studies said 4%. In NYC, they say it's 25% who have antibodies. That would be great. I hope they come up with a vaccine, I hope that antibodies in convalescent plasma is a treatment, I hope that anti-inflammatories can control serious cases, I hope that Remdesivir works, I hope that Pepcid works (that is a thing), etc. . . People are doing clinical trials on all these things now, doctors and nurses are doing great work, and every day they know more. Every day people who might have died in the early days of this new illness are now surviving. I have great hope.
I hope there is college football in fall 2020 (isn't that the point of this thread?)
One note: there is, in fact, a vaccine for H1N1.
Orange County (CA) board of supervisors voted 5-0 to re-open businesses (local cities can continue to keep things closed if they want to). Parks, trails and beaches will open. Churches, entertainment and sports venues (including youth sports) are allowed to open. They are recommending physical distancing at workplaces, and recommending that sick, older and at-risk people continue to stay home.
