Dominik85 posted:I mean you wouldn't call a drunk driver just enjoying his life, wouldn't you?
That is the absolute best analogy I've seen anywhere in this whole crisis.
Dominik85 posted:I'm not in a lockdown, I am going out but I also don't do dumbshit stuff.
People should not panic and a month ago your position was the position of reason but now situation has changed and it is not anymore.
As for the consequences they are not just endangering themselves but they are also vectors for the virus and they are not held accountable for that.I mean you wouldn't call a drunk driver juat enjoying his life, wouldn't you?
I'm certainly not panicking at all but i believe in the position of science and now every expert agrees on what to do. A month ago my position would have been unreasonable but now it is the reasonable position and you can't call people who follow the rules of the experts paranoid although many unfortunately are paranoid now.
Given that we're more or less following the Italian path, we probably should have been on a complete lockdown a month ago. Your position would have seemed like a gross overreaction then, but it was probably what should have been done. That's the nature of pandemics.
If you can believe the Chinese numbers, that's basically what they did. Martial lawed 10s of millions of people in place and started testing everyone. SK appears to have achieved basically the same effect with large numbers of tests and tracking/followup and a more voluntary version of quarantining everyone exposed.
Meanwhile, we've got a Georgia state senator who knew he was showing symptoms and went to work anyway, or Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson saying it's NBD, only 1-3% of people are going to die and we can't stop everything for just that.
I get that math is hard, but 10s of millions of people catch the flu every year. 10s of millions of people catching this means several hundred thousand to a couple million dead, and it will happen fast enough to overwhelm healthcare systems everywhere and lead to tangential additional deaths from that.
Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
The dictator, err governor of Maine shut down the state after 42 positive tests and one hospitalization. Only essential services are open. I can go out biking. I can’t stop anywhere but a grocery store or pharmacy.
I figure I’m safer in Maine than Massachusetts. Massachusetts is a major outbreak state due to an international conference three weeks ago. But now there’s no place to go.
I dodged a bullet walking through Quincy Market/Faneuil Hall when the conference was going on across the street at the Marriott conference center at Union Wharf. There were likely conference people in my midst.
I saw an article on nature.com (Nature Magazine) had the Chinese been honest and up front about what was going on from the beginning the outbreak would have likely been about 10% of what it became.
Nature.com has a reputation of being unbiased and scientifically accurate.
RJM posted:I saw an article on nature.com (Nature Magazine) had the Chinese been honest and up front about what was going on from the beginning the outbreak would have likely been about 10% of what it became.
Nature.com has a reputation of being unbiased and scientifically accurate.
That the Chinese being more upfront about it would have made a difference in its initial transmission outside of China wouldn't surprise me at all.
Thing is, the world should basically already know that would be true about a pandemic starting in China (see SARS and MERS before), and should probably be assuming anything coming out of China in this regard is much worse, potentially, than what they're claiming initially.
Which means that the US and Europe should have been far more aggressive in dealing with the spread as soon as the first cases popped up. SK appears to have cracked down almost immediately on containment, and one patient getting outside of that initial containment effort is what got them as deep as they are.
Never mind the various supply chain issues with masks and ventilators and similar resources in the US, which we should probably be addressing for the future now, not getting much more aggressive about epidemiological control in the early days is going to end up being the key detail when this eventually all gets analyzed in hindsight. It's probably going to end up having been an order of magnitude or two level difference (that is, the difference between a few hundred or thousand deaths in the US and tens or hundreds of thousands).
I suspect that when the government agrees to pass out stimulus checks a few in here are going to state that they don't need the money, that others do need it more. You're very admirable. Can I just get you my contact info?
Or go out to eat and tip a few waiters and waitresses crazy tips. Or go buy something you don't need at a local small business and give it to someone who does need it.
TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
Which US governor(s) was/were prepared?
TerribleBPthrower posted:TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
Which US governor(s) was/were prepared?
Governor of Ohio seems to have done the best
TerribleBPthrower posted:TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
Which US governor(s) was/were prepared?
I'm not sure you could say any were really prepared, and I don't know that they should really be expected to be as prepared as necessary in the absence of more of a federal push in the beginning. Some have clearly done more than others. OH was getting out in front of things awfully early. MI and NY too, though Cuomo's folksiness would drive me crazy. GA hasn't been bad, though the leadership on getting schools closed was kind of spotty in the beginning (that's where I am). SC and TX both seem to have been really lax in shutting things down, SC, in particular, was one of the last ones to close schools. Not sure how much FL could have down, but the interviews from the beaches were particularly egregious. You'd think closing those would be straightforward enough in a state that has hurricane prep built-in.
PitchingFan posted:Or go out to eat and tip a few waiters and waitresses crazy tips. Or go buy something you don't need at a local small business and give it to someone who does need it.
Or do a thousand dollar panic run on the grocery store. I just walked to the grocery store for exercise. Everything I wanted is available including stuff I thought I would have to return at 6am before the hoarders. Either people are running out of money to spend, are afraid to spend more than necessary or America is running out of kitchen shelf space.
American scenarios I have in mind based on what I’ve seen in stores ...
Next year at the dinner table, “Eat up! We have 56 boxes of pasta to go.
OR
Eat your canned beans! Otherwise we will never go through 200 rolls of toilet paper.
A thousand squares of toilet paper on the wall, a thousand squares on a roll. You take one down, pass it around, 999 squares of toilet paper on the wall.
😁
Also, the fact that I keep getting emails for cheap airline tickets everywhere is kind of absurd. I get that they're hemorrhaging money, but no one should be flying by choice at this point, especially given the number of instances of sick people already having done so.
RJM posted:PitchingFan posted:Or go out to eat and tip a few waiters and waitresses crazy tips. Or go buy something you don't need at a local small business and give it to someone who does need it.
Or do a thousand dollar panic run on the grocery store. I just walked to the grocery store for exercise. Everything I wanted is available including stuff I thought I would have to return at 6am before the hoarders. Either people are running out of money to spend, are afraid to spend more than necessary or America is running out of kitchen shelf space.
American scenarios I have in mind based on what I’ve seen in stores ...
Next year at the dinner table, “Eat up! We have 56 boxes of pasta to go.
OR
Eat your canned beans! Otherwise we will never go through 200 rolls of toilet paper.
A thousand squares of toilet paper on the wall, a thousand squares on a roll. You take one down, pass it around, 999 squares of toilet paper on the wall.
😁
Passing the squares around is a really bad idea. :-)
Dominik85 posted:I don't want to get too political but I think it is a worrying development that some people think that some scientific topics are a political opinion.
Yeah we have freedom of speech and you have the right to believe the earth is flat but you don't have the right to mandate being taken seriously if you state such a thing.
Some things are simply not best decided by opinion or majority decision but by experts and 99% of all medical experts are agreeing what to do here. It is ok to disagree with experts but then don't expect to be taken serious.
This is no attack on people on this forum, most here do know the right thing to do in this situation but more people in general. And even in general most people act sensibly but there are like 10% idiots who are endangering the "good" 90% with their stubbornness.
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own set of facts.” ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:Dominik85 posted:I don't want to get too political but I think it is a worrying development that some people think that some scientific topics are a political opinion.
Yeah we have freedom of speech and you have the right to believe the earth is flat but you don't have the right to mandate being taken seriously if you state such a thing.
Some things are simply not best decided by opinion or majority decision but by experts and 99% of all medical experts are agreeing what to do here. It is ok to disagree with experts but then don't expect to be taken serious.
This is no attack on people on this forum, most here do know the right thing to do in this situation but more people in general. And even in general most people act sensibly but there are like 10% idiots who are endangering the "good" 90% with their stubbornness.
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own set of facts.” ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams
TerribleBPthrower posted:TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
Which US governor(s) was/were prepared?
It’s probably more, “Which ones got lucky?” I live in ME and MA.
ME has had few positive tests and one hospitalization. It’s not a state with many international businesses and international research facilities.
Boston MA hosted the annual international Biogen conference. There has been a massive breakout per capita. More than 80% of the positive tests in MA connect back to the Biogen convention. It was held at the Marriott Union Wharf across the street from one of America’s biggest tourist attractions (Quincy Market/Faneuil Hall). Probably every person at the conference crossed the street several times. Boston is a very international city.
TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
It's all about the $$'s.
57special posted:TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
It's all about the $$'s.
True. Spring break is mucho bucos. Once Disney closed they should have shut down all beaches, bars, etc. DeSantis had the power to do it.
But to the point about no one was prepared, exactly, no one was prepared.
adbono posted:TerribleBPthrower posted:TPM posted:Dominik85 posted:It seems some are still doing spring break. Here are some especially bright ones interviewed
https://twitter.com/marclamont...412987191631875?s=09
Can't believe goverment isn't preventing that. I think people should be allowed to go out and for example go for a jog but be reasonable and not excessive. We don't need to lock down people in their house but if that continues they might.
This minority of people who now screems freedom and are unwilling to give away a bit of their freedom could be responsible for the majority losing way more of their freedom.
I live just west of FT Lauderdale and about an hour south from the beaches of Miami Dade County. Beaches in Palm Beach County are all a short drive from where I live.
I just CAN NOT believe that they just started closing down beaches, bars, restaurants. They even remained open since our governor, who was totally unprepared for this, declared a state of emergency.
Which US governor(s) was/were prepared?
Governor of Ohio seems to have done the best
He has done a lot. It remains to be seen whether what we have done in Ohio makes a clear difference.
RJM posted:PitchingFan posted:Or go out to eat and tip a few waiters and waitresses crazy tips. Or go buy something you don't need at a local small business and give it to someone who does need it.
Or do a thousand dollar panic run on the grocery store. I just walked to the grocery store for exercise. Everything I wanted is available including stuff I thought I would have to return at 6am before the hoarders. Either people are running out of money to spend, are afraid to spend more than necessary or America is running out of kitchen shelf space.
American scenarios I have in mind based on what I’ve seen in stores ...
Next year at the dinner table, “Eat up! We have 56 boxes of pasta to go.
OR
Eat your canned beans! Otherwise we will never go through 200 rolls of toilet paper.
A thousand squares of toilet paper on the wall, a thousand squares on a roll. You take one down, pass it around, 999 squares of toilet paper on the wall.
😁
Still nothing in the stores here. No water, toilet paper, meat, cereal, eggs, or bread. That part is crazy.
The latest from Texas.
https://www.fox26houston.com/n...ng-rooms-and-schools
Our stores are stocked pretty good in and around Houston. You can find a pictures on facebook of empty shelves, but they get restocked pretty fast. You may want the Old El Paso Stand and Stuff Doritos taco shells and they are sold out, but you can get the regular 10-pack of taco shells and get by for another day.
FWIW, in suburban Atlanta various ethnic markets around us appear to be better stocked for staples than the big chain grocery stores, and less crowded, too.
KLL posted:RJM posted:PitchingFan posted:Or go out to eat and tip a few waiters and waitresses crazy tips. Or go buy something you don't need at a local small business and give it to someone who does need it.
Or do a thousand dollar panic run on the grocery store. I just walked to the grocery store for exercise. Everything I wanted is available including stuff I thought I would have to return at 6am before the hoarders. Either people are running out of money to spend, are afraid to spend more than necessary or America is running out of kitchen shelf space.
American scenarios I have in mind based on what I’ve seen in stores ...
Next year at the dinner table, “Eat up! We have 56 boxes of pasta to go.
OR
Eat your canned beans! Otherwise we will never go through 200 rolls of toilet paper.
A thousand squares of toilet paper on the wall, a thousand squares on a roll. You take one down, pass it around, 999 squares of toilet paper on the wall.
😁
Still nothing in the stores here. No water, toilet paper, meat, cereal, eggs, or bread. That part is crazy.
I called corporate of the couple of grocery stores I shop. One is a regional corporation. One is a national corporation. I was told what I expected. There isn’t a food supply shortage. It’s just a matter of getting shelves restocked. They advised I shop early in the morning.
I spoke with the Nabisco rep in an aisle. He’s restocking the Nabisco shelves himself at his accounts to make sure product isn’t sitting on pallets out back. He said the only issue is the next delivery truck arriving. There’s plenty of food.
JMO but the NCAA cares about 2 things, hoops and football. It should be interesting to see what they come up with.
As if there was any doubt about the NCAA being scum bags.
TPM posted:JMO but the NCAA cares about 2 things, hoops and football. It should be interesting to see what they come up with.
Agree. We must remember simple logic, whoever generates the revenue controls the decisions.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:TPM posted:JMO but the NCAA cares about 2 things, hoops and football. It should be interesting to see what they come up with.
Agree. We must remember simple logic, whoever generates the revenue controls the decisions.
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