Whoops! Who has the chisel?
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Whoops! Who has the chisel?
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Whoops! Who has the chisel?
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Dont worry Holden. We will be sitting here in five years watching this same story unfold once again. And BK will be back at Grand Valley State telling those guys there is no where he would rather be.
And the next hot shot that got some players to buy into what he was selling will be telling ND how they will have their program restored to its glory days.
And the next hot shot that got some players to buy into what he was selling will be telling ND how they will have their program restored to its glory days.
quote:I'm sorry if your sensibilities were offended. But, again, the transaction between ND and Kelly was not against any rule and was, in fact, within tradition of college football.
It concerns me regarding society when people can't distinguish between legal and ethical. One thing I've noticed about ND alums and the millions of ND fans who probably lack the intelligence to find South Bend on a map, is they have such rose colored glasses, whatever ND does must be right since they have Jesus on their side. It's why I can't stand Notre Dame and hope they continue their football abyss.
Who's going to coach Cincinnati? Kelly took the offensive and defensive coordinators and half the position coaches with him. Class act Notre Dame and Kelly!
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE]
It concerns me regarding society when people can't di/stinguish between legal and ethical. One thing I've noticed about ND alums is they have such rose colored glasses, whatever ND does must be right since they have Jesus on their side. It's why I can't stand Notre Dame and hope they continue their football abyss.
I find nothing unethical about signing a new coach after getting permission from his previous employer to enter into and complete negotiations.
I do not find ND's actions unethical, nor did I find Alabama's, Miami's and numerous other colleges' actions unethical when the acted in like manner.
From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.
I know of no ND alum who truly believes that "Jesus is on their side." I do know a number of them who believe they are on Jesus's side.
The one million dollar check from ND(Kelly buyout) to Cincy did not hurt either , did it !!!!
Why is Notre Dame continually ranked in the preseason top twenty coming off bad seasons? Notre Dame bias. The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE]
It concerns me regarding society when people can't di/stinguish between legal and ethical. One thing I've noticed about ND alums is they have such rose colored glasses, whatever ND does must be right since they have Jesus on their side. It's why I can't stand Notre Dame and hope they continue their football abyss.
I find nothing unethical about signing a new coach after getting permission from his previous employer to enter into and complete negotiations.
I do not find ND's actions unethical, nor did I find Alabama's, Miami's and numerous other colleges' actions unethical when the acted in like manner.
From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.
I know of no ND alum who truly believes that "Jesus is on their side." I do know a number of them who believe they are on Jesus's side.
How come EVERY football program Lou Holtz ever coached was placed on probation except Notre Dame even though there were lots of allegations and investigations? Notre Dame bias.
It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.
Dang RJM I guess you really dont like ND after all! I have never like ND either. But its because I have always felt they were given things others had to earn. They are constantly ranked when they have no business being ranked. Why? Because they were really good for a long time. But reality is they have not be good for a long long time. They dont play in a conference. They can hand pick their entire schedule and they do. And they still cant put a decent record in the book. Look at their schedule this year. And look who they lost to. They have been beat by Navy two years in a row. Nothing against Navy I always pull them Army and Air Force. But ND pulls in all these five star recruits and they continue to lose to national powers like UNC UCONN and Navy?
They want to be put on this pedastal of college football but when in reality was the last time they were actually relevent in college football? Twenty five years ago maybe? Everyone of their games is televised. The bottom line is I dont think there is one college football program in the nation that is more despised than ND. For many reasons. Charlie was the savior of ND football. He came in with that arrogant smug attitude and left a beat down humble character. BK comes in with the same swagger. And he will leave with the same look on his face that Charlie did. "Dam should have stayed at Cincy!"
You can walk around with a swagger , you can act like your sh@t dont stink , when you are actually really good. But to do it just because your ND when you have been average at best for the last 25 years? Maybe Bob Davie will come back when Kelly fails or maybe even Jerry Faust?
They want to be put on this pedastal of college football but when in reality was the last time they were actually relevent in college football? Twenty five years ago maybe? Everyone of their games is televised. The bottom line is I dont think there is one college football program in the nation that is more despised than ND. For many reasons. Charlie was the savior of ND football. He came in with that arrogant smug attitude and left a beat down humble character. BK comes in with the same swagger. And he will leave with the same look on his face that Charlie did. "Dam should have stayed at Cincy!"
You can walk around with a swagger , you can act like your sh@t dont stink , when you are actually really good. But to do it just because your ND when you have been average at best for the last 25 years? Maybe Bob Davie will come back when Kelly fails or maybe even Jerry Faust?
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:...I dont think there is one college football program in the nation that is more despised than ND...
They're the Dallas Cowboys of college football.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.
quote:RJM:
The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.
It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.
It's rare I am proven correct so quickly. I'll have to show my wife.
My view isn't colored. Coach May wrote a longer version of what I think. And most of the Notre Dame fans I know are obnoxious about nothing. Notre Dame football is dead. And the school is academically overrated due to it's past football reputation. Admission is only difficult because so many Catholics want to go there, not because it's a top school with academically talented kids beating down the door.quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.quote:RJM:
The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.
It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.
It's rare I am proven correct so quickly. I'll have to show my wife.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:My view isn't colored. Coach May wrote a longer version of what I think. And most of the Notre Dame fans I know are obnoxious about nothing. Notre Dame football is dead. And the school is academically overrated due to it's past football reputation. Admission is only difficult because so many Catholics want to go there, not because it's a top school with academically talented kids beating down the door.quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.quote:RJM:
The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.
It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.
It's rare I am proven correct so quickly. I'll have to show my wife.
I'll have to withdraw from this thread. I cannot fathom how I can commnicate with one who can claim no bias, yet write the posts you have written.
(Eaxamples: The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.
It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.
Notre Dame football is dead. And the school is academically overrated due to it's past football reputation.)
I'm sure we'll find other areas in which we can understand one another.
BTW, in regards to academics:
"By virtually any measurement, the University of Notre Dame wins the 2009 national championship for graduating its student-athletes.
Whether measured by the federal government in its Department of Education report or by the NCAA through its Graduation Success Rate (GSR) numbers, graduation rates for Notre Dame student-athletes rank either number one or among the handful of national leaders in all major categories among all major football-playing colleges and universities.
Notre Dame's institutional research found that Irish student-athletes ranked number one in eight of 10 major categories - ranking second in one and third in another. Those are far and away the best results for Notre Dame in the five years the NCAA has published both the GSR and federal numbers. The eight number-one rankings are four more than ever achieved in any other year (the four top rankings came in 2008).
Notre Dame led the nation in the GSR ratings for all student-athletes (at 99), while also ranking first in both the GSR and federal standings for male student-athletes (98 GSR, 88 federal), female student-athletes (100 GSR, 94 federal) and black student-athletes (97 GSR, 85 federal) -- as well as first in the GSR listing for football student-athletes (96).
Both the federal graduation-rate figures and the GSR numbers for Notre Dame student-athletes rated the Irish in five major categories among the 120 football-playing institutions in the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly Division I-A)."
I despise ND football as much or more than anyone. But the comments about ND academics are just plain wrong. In fact, since ND is one of the few national universities that focuses on undergraduate education, if anything it may be underrated. And you have no idea how much I hate having to write that...
Holden , dang it! Just because its true doesnt mean you have to say it!
I don't know that there's any way to evaluate the quality of teaching from one university to the next. Research, maybe, but not classroom instruction.
What is commonly evaluated is the caliber of the graduates. To a great extent, this is a function of the caliber of those granted admission.
Whether it's because it is the top choice of so many people of a particular religious persuasion, whether it is because of football, or whether it's for specific programs, Notre Dame has without question reached a point where its student body is of very, very high caliber. Any time you have a high ratio of applicants to available spots, competition is keen and the result is a student body of impressive credentials.
If you let your disdain for the institution lead you to ignore those facts, believing your preconceptions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that is the very definition of prejudice -- i.e., you have prejudged the issue. And when your disdain has no rational basis, what are we left to think?
Sometimes when I write something on here, I go back later and think, better that I delete that one. Just a suggestion.
What is commonly evaluated is the caliber of the graduates. To a great extent, this is a function of the caliber of those granted admission.
Whether it's because it is the top choice of so many people of a particular religious persuasion, whether it is because of football, or whether it's for specific programs, Notre Dame has without question reached a point where its student body is of very, very high caliber. Any time you have a high ratio of applicants to available spots, competition is keen and the result is a student body of impressive credentials.
If you let your disdain for the institution lead you to ignore those facts, believing your preconceptions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that is the very definition of prejudice -- i.e., you have prejudged the issue. And when your disdain has no rational basis, what are we left to think?
Sometimes when I write something on here, I go back later and think, better that I delete that one. Just a suggestion.
Based on Midlo Dad's post I think I have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that my hatred of ND football is completely rational. 
When thinking about ND it helps to separate the football program, the school itself and its graduates. As a football program say whatever negative thing you wish to say (usually it evolves around being overrated) and while they are far from perfect, at least they do things the right way as far as recruiting student-athletes and making them go to class and graduate. I think this focus trumps everything negative that detractors might have to say. The school itself is an excellent school that produces worth while contributors to our society. As far as their vocal graduates, they are, in my opinion, the reason why so many of us have such decidely mixed (at best) perspectives on the school. They are suffocating in their holy than thou attitude. Nevertheless, having said all that, I'll still ND over the current FSU mess, Miami U of the '80's, current USC mess, etc etc etc.
Money tends to corrupt, absolute money corrupts absolutely, just ask Tiger.
Money tends to corrupt, absolute money corrupts absolutely, just ask Tiger.
I am not a ND fan but I can tell you that their alumni pipeline is second to none--in fact I worked for a young man who was an ND grad and he offered to do whatever he could for my son if my son had interest in ND
quote:Besides, college football isn't big business and big bucks. It's about student-athletes.
College football is not big business !!!!
Come out of the cave sir !!!
Come out of the cave sir !!!
When you copied my post you excluded one very important part .....quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:quote:Besides, college football isn't big business and big bucks. It's about student-athletes.
4 words for you: WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!
My perception is based on kids I know who have been accepted to Notre Dame in the past few years who are not very bright kids. They're not college athletes either.quote:If you let your disdain for the institution lead you to ignore those facts, believing your preconceptions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that is the very definition of prejudice -- i.e., you have prejudged the issue. And when your disdain has no rational basis, what are we left to think?
4 words:
WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!
WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
Despite my feelings for ND athletics they have moved up my list for the "lower than whale shet" athletic programs after watching the "Outside the Lines" segment concerning FL States academic policies.
If you didn't see it, here's a link to the 15 min segment.
[url=http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/outside-the-lines-otl-florida-state-academic-
scandal/2724413759]FL State [/url]
Like that one huh, that's been going on for YEARS at FSU and it's just not in FB.
Kind of in the middle here with the way ND and the bears coach did things, couldn't ND have kept most of their coaching staff in tact,Kelly could have left, but his coaching staff remained until after the bowl game.
That's the problem when you have to wait so long for bowl games.
IMO, it's the kids that got screwed, and that's a shame. ND always seems to get away with too much.
Here's the right way. Al Golden is a class act. He's one of the up and coming college coaches. Don't be surprised if he's the next Cincinnati coach. At least he's focused on finishing his team's season.
Temple coach Golden focused on bowl
Dec 12, 8:28 pm EST
PHILADELPHIA (AP)—Temple coach Al Golden says he’s not speaking with any other schools about potential jobs after leading the Owls to their first bowl game since 1979.
Golden is widely considered a top target after transforming the Owls from one of the worst programs in football to a bowl-bound team. Temple (9-3) will play UCLA (6-6) in the EagleBank Bowl on Dec. 29 at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.
Golden interviewed twice in 2007 for the UCLA job that eventually went to Rick Neuheisel.
Golden said Saturday he doesn’t have any interviews lined up. His name has been mentioned in connection with the Cincinnati job that opened when Brian Kelly left for Notre Dame.
Temple coach Golden focused on bowl
Dec 12, 8:28 pm EST
PHILADELPHIA (AP)—Temple coach Al Golden says he’s not speaking with any other schools about potential jobs after leading the Owls to their first bowl game since 1979.
Golden is widely considered a top target after transforming the Owls from one of the worst programs in football to a bowl-bound team. Temple (9-3) will play UCLA (6-6) in the EagleBank Bowl on Dec. 29 at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.
Golden interviewed twice in 2007 for the UCLA job that eventually went to Rick Neuheisel.
Golden said Saturday he doesn’t have any interviews lined up. His name has been mentioned in connection with the Cincinnati job that opened when Brian Kelly left for Notre Dame.
That is a good man. Temple needs to reward him for a job well done, and he needs to continue to build the Temple program. As for Notre Dame, they are a non-issue and non-factor in college football period. Why so much "to-do" about an average program that is no way close to being relevant? They think they are "10", act like they are a "10" but they really are a "6". Hopefully this will be the last Notre Dame football thread in this baseball forum.
I have never been a fan of Notre Dame football, always seem to pull for whoever they're playing. Not even sure why... Maybe jealousy?
However, I wonder how many of us wouldn't be extremely proud to have our kids receive recruiting interest and a scholarship offer from the University of Notre Dame?
How can anyone blame a coach at U of Cincinnati for taking the Notre Dame job? Nothing against Cincinnati, but those two jobs are much different in many ways. Different level of expectation, tradition, national attention, fan support, resources, and compensation.
Whether they win or not, whether people love them or hate them, Notre Dame is the big time!
Also I don't quite understand why anyone would make light of Notre Dame's schedule. This year they played 8 teams that are in bowl games and 3 others who missed being bowl teams by one game. The only teams they played that are not in bowl games are all in either the Big10 or Pac10. Scheduling Michigan at Michigan (over 100,000 fans) is not what anyone would call scheduling a weak opponent. Michigan was one win from being a bowl team. Purdue beat Ohio State and lost by 2 points to Oregon (the Rose Bowl teams). Purdue was one win from being a bowl team. Washington beat Southern Cal and Arizona and they had perhaps the first QB to be drafted next year. Washington was also one win from being a bowl team.
All of Notre Dame's loses were by a touchdown or less.
I still pull for whoever Notre Dame is playing against, but at the same time have great respect for the Notre Dame football program, all their athletics and especially the university.
However, I wonder how many of us wouldn't be extremely proud to have our kids receive recruiting interest and a scholarship offer from the University of Notre Dame?
How can anyone blame a coach at U of Cincinnati for taking the Notre Dame job? Nothing against Cincinnati, but those two jobs are much different in many ways. Different level of expectation, tradition, national attention, fan support, resources, and compensation.
Whether they win or not, whether people love them or hate them, Notre Dame is the big time!
Also I don't quite understand why anyone would make light of Notre Dame's schedule. This year they played 8 teams that are in bowl games and 3 others who missed being bowl teams by one game. The only teams they played that are not in bowl games are all in either the Big10 or Pac10. Scheduling Michigan at Michigan (over 100,000 fans) is not what anyone would call scheduling a weak opponent. Michigan was one win from being a bowl team. Purdue beat Ohio State and lost by 2 points to Oregon (the Rose Bowl teams). Purdue was one win from being a bowl team. Washington beat Southern Cal and Arizona and they had perhaps the first QB to be drafted next year. Washington was also one win from being a bowl team.
All of Notre Dame's loses were by a touchdown or less.
I still pull for whoever Notre Dame is playing against, but at the same time have great respect for the Notre Dame football program, all their athletics and especially the university.
Golden has been an assistant at Penn State, Virginia and Boston College. His final destination is not going to be a mid major program. His stock is real high right now. He has a good shot at being the Cincinnati coach if they can wait until his season is over.quote:Temple needs to reward him for a job well done, and he needs to continue to build the Temple program.
Temple screwed up when their program was in such disarraay they were kicked out of the Big East. If they were still in the conference maybe Golden would stay like Greg Schiano built the program and stayed at Rutgers.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
I have never been a fan of Notre Dame football, always seem to pull for whoever they're playing. Not even sure why... Maybe jealousy?
However, I wonder how many of us wouldn't be extremely proud to have our kids receive recruiting interest and a scholarship offer from the University of Notre Dame?
How can anyone blame a coach at U of Cincinnati for taking the Notre Dame job? Nothing against Cincinnati, but those two jobs are much different in many ways. Different level of expectation, tradition, national attention, fan support, resources, and compensation.
Whether they win or not, whether people love them or hate them, Notre Dame is the big time!
Also I don't quite understand why anyone would make light of Notre Dame's schedule. This year they played 8 teams that are in bowl games and 3 others who missed being bowl teams by one game. The only teams they played that are not in bowl games are all in either the Big10 or Pac10. Scheduling Michigan at Michigan (over 100,000 fans) is not what anyone would call scheduling a weak opponent. Michigan was one win from being a bowl team. Purdue beat Ohio State and lost by 2 points to Oregon (the Rose Bowl teams). Purdue was one win from being a bowl team. Washington beat Southern Cal and Arizona and they had perhaps the first QB to be drafted next year. Washington was also one win from being a bowl team.
All of Notre Dame's loses were by a touchdown or less.
I still pull for whoever Notre Dame is playing against, but at the same time have great respect for the Notre Dame football program, all their athletics and especially the university.
Being a bowl team is almost meaningless these days. ND only played two teams ranked in the final Top 25, neither or which are there on a regular basis. Last year I believe they played one--USC.
I think there is one point that no one has brought up that makes this a positive move by Cinncy's coach and ND. IF he were to stay at Cincinnati and ND was to wait on him (which I doubt) they would get nothing but "so are you going to ND" "How do you feel about your coach going to ND" every day until the bowl game. As would a number of other coaches and teams. With this decision being made early it allows Cincinnati and other teams whose coaches were mentioned to move by the distraction and prepare for their bowl games.
By the way people hate ND for the same reasons they hate the Cowboys, Steelers, Yankees, and Lakers. Funny how nobody ever seems to hate someone like Duke Football.
By the way people hate ND for the same reasons they hate the Cowboys, Steelers, Yankees, and Lakers. Funny how nobody ever seems to hate someone like Duke Football.
Great line by the Hokie radio commentators during their last regular season game, when the Notre Dame score came across the screen:
"Next year they play 4 non-BCS schools, as well as Army, Navy, and Air Force. Heck, they'd play the Marine Corps too if they had a team..."
They do play a weak schedule. It's impossible to play top 20 opposition every week, and sometimes teams are scheduled that end up being in down years when the games are played, but this past season, before the first games were played, that great absolutely unbiased commentator, Lou "love those Irish" Holtz, said their schedule was such that he predicted a 10-1 finish, with Weiss as coach of the Year and Clausen with the Heisman Trophy.
As Maxwell Smart would say, 'Missed it by THAT much."
"Next year they play 4 non-BCS schools, as well as Army, Navy, and Air Force. Heck, they'd play the Marine Corps too if they had a team..."
They do play a weak schedule. It's impossible to play top 20 opposition every week, and sometimes teams are scheduled that end up being in down years when the games are played, but this past season, before the first games were played, that great absolutely unbiased commentator, Lou "love those Irish" Holtz, said their schedule was such that he predicted a 10-1 finish, with Weiss as coach of the Year and Clausen with the Heisman Trophy.
As Maxwell Smart would say, 'Missed it by THAT much."
Not true. Those other teams win. People don't like Notre Dame over their attitude of entitlement and thinking they're as successful as those other teams. Notre Dame's success is from a past era and their fans are still trying to live off it like it's happening now.quote:By the way people hate ND for the same reasons they hate the Cowboys, Steelers, Yankees, and Lakers. Funny how nobody ever seems to hate someone like Duke Football.
Here's a class act. It shows lot's of character and leadership. It's the molding of student athletes into men:
Players were angry and stunned when Kelly told them last Thursday—after their annual awards banquet—that he was leaving for Notre Dame. A week earlier, Kelly had told his players he was happy in Cincinnati, and said on a radio show that he was staying.
Players were angry and stunned when Kelly told them last Thursday—after their annual awards banquet—that he was leaving for Notre Dame. A week earlier, Kelly had told his players he was happy in Cincinnati, and said on a radio show that he was staying.
AH !!!! if only the days of ARA would return
Tales of Notre Dame courage and character in the Parseghian era ....quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
AH !!!! if only the days of ARA would return
Bama went undefeated and was two-time defending national champions, but did not win the national title in 1966 because voters chose to reward Notre Dame after Fighting Irish coach Ara Parseghian, with his team tied 10-10 with Michigan State with 1:10 to go, chose to play for the tie rather than attempt to win the game. The Fighting Irish and Spartans both finished 9-0-1 and were ranked #1 and #2 in the polls, while Alabama finished third.
For nearly 40 years, Parseghian has defended his end-of-the-game strategy, which left many fans feeling disappointed at the game not having some sort of resolution, Michigan State fans and other Notre Dame detractors calling him a coward, and college football expert Dan Jenkins leading off his article for Sports Illustrated by saying Parseghian chose to "Tie one for the Gipper." In that same article, Parseghian was quoted as saying, "We'd fought hard to come back and tie it up. After all that, I didn't want to risk giving it to them cheap. They get reckless and it could cost them the game. I wasn't going to do a jackass thing like that at this point."
I still have fond memories of skipping church to watch the Notre Dame Football Highlights show with Lindsey Nelson commentating in the 1970's.
I'm not a Catholic and as you can see I'm not even the best at attending church! But I guess I just don't get all the ND hating here.
The real story is that there are rising programs all over the country and with that, somebody gets crowded out. ND alums may pine for the days when they were perennial contenders but it's hard to claw your way back to that level once you fall off the perch. Too many others along side you, also trying to make the same climb.
I don't see how ND hiring a hot shot rising star coach, or how that coach's changing jobs to get a massive raise (like none of us would've done that if we'd had the opportunity!), is any different than anything anyone else is doing right now. Maybe that's the real problem.
I'm not a Catholic and as you can see I'm not even the best at attending church! But I guess I just don't get all the ND hating here.
The real story is that there are rising programs all over the country and with that, somebody gets crowded out. ND alums may pine for the days when they were perennial contenders but it's hard to claw your way back to that level once you fall off the perch. Too many others along side you, also trying to make the same climb.
I don't see how ND hiring a hot shot rising star coach, or how that coach's changing jobs to get a massive raise (like none of us would've done that if we'd had the opportunity!), is any different than anything anyone else is doing right now. Maybe that's the real problem.
It's not the hiring. It's how it was done. Then tack on the high moral ground Notre Dame and it's fans think they stand on.quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I still have fond memories of skipping church to watch the Notre Dame Football Highlights show with Lindsey Nelson commentating in the 1970's.
I'm not a Catholic and as you can see I'm not even the best at attending church! But I guess I just don't get all the ND hating here.
The real story is that there are rising programs all over the country and with that, somebody gets crowded out. ND alums may pine for the days when they were perennial contenders but it's hard to claw your way back to that level once you fall off the perch. Too many others along side you, also trying to make the same climb.
I don't see how ND hiring a hot shot rising star coach, or how that coach's changing jobs to get a massive raise (like none of us would've done that if we'd had the opportunity!), is any different than anything anyone else is doing right now. Maybe that's the real problem.
If Cincinnati was 7-5 or 8-4 and headed for the Obscure Bowl it wouldn't be a big deal. But they're on the verge of their greatest season ever, an undefeated season, and the coach walks on out on the team coerced by Notre Dame after he told the players he's not leaving.
When society only looks at the rules and ignores moral and ethical we have a problem. We have the holier than thou Notre Dame in the middle of a moral and ethical situation. When lawyers and corporate leaders see the world as mothing but rules without morals and ethics they're called out as scumbags.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
It's not the hiring. It's how it was done. Then tack on the high moral ground Notre Dame and it's fans think they stand on.
If Cincinnati was 7-5 or 8-4 and headed for the Obscure Bowl it wouldn't be a big deal. But they're on the verge of their greatest season ever, an undefeated season, and the coach walks on out on the team coerced by Notre Dame after he told the players he's not leaving.
When society only looks at the rules and ignores moral and ethical we have a problem. We have the holier than thou Notre Dame in the middle of a moral and ethical situation. When lawyers and corporate leaders see the world as mothing but rules without morals and ethics they're called out as scumbags.
1. There are differing views as to whether or not Notre Dame conducted itself in an immoral and unethical fashion. So, are you stating a personal opinion or attempting to declare facts?
2. Which then leads us to this question: Who is the arbiter of what is moral and ethical when it comes to hiring a football coach?
3. Was there this much outrage when Miami, Alabama and other colleges practiced the same hiring procedure?
It seems apparent to some (personal opinion) that some of the outrage exists because Notre Dame is involved.
1) The decision Kelly and Notre Dame made to strip Cincinnati of their coaching staff (Kelly took all his key assistants with him) before their biggest game in history is indecent. I don't want to hear about recruiting. Cincinnati's season isn't over.
2) I doubt few not involved with Notre Dame would disagree with the ethics and morality of the decision. It's about recruiting. Usually it's Nore Dame fans who try to define morality.
3) It's not right. But it's disgusting when it interferes with the best season in Cincinnati's history. Miami and Alabama have never attempted to claim the high moral ground. I don't see a Touchdown Jesus on their campus.
The nice thing is chances are nothing will change with Notre Dame football on the field. Kelly is just the new false messiah.
2) I doubt few not involved with Notre Dame would disagree with the ethics and morality of the decision. It's about recruiting. Usually it's Nore Dame fans who try to define morality.
3) It's not right. But it's disgusting when it interferes with the best season in Cincinnati's history. Miami and Alabama have never attempted to claim the high moral ground. I don't see a Touchdown Jesus on their campus.
The nice thing is chances are nothing will change with Notre Dame football on the field. Kelly is just the new false messiah.
quote:Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
4 words:
WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!
This was my prior post.
This was very similar circumstances.
There was certainly a lot of outrage directed at both parties.
Michigan also represented itself as an upstanding do-it-the-right-way institution and football program.
Putting all the ethical and moral talk aside, you can't portray yourself as being on the moral high ground, then take actions that are contrary to that position, and not expect some public outrage and venom to spew your way.
Do they step down off their moral high ground when it is convenient for them? Then expect no one to notice the contradiction?