Notre Dame Football

recruiting.

It is a critical time for recruiting for all colleges. The only chance ND has to keep its early recruits is to get a coach on board ASAP.

Smart move by ND. Cincinnati and its players, however, are left in the lurch, and unfairly so in a perfect world.

Very unclassy on the part of ND, but I'm not sure what else could have been expected. It's a big, big business.

I'm not sure who is unclassy in this:

1. Notre Dame
2. Brian Kelly
3. The coach-changing process?

Wouldn't Kelly beating Florida be a great recruiting tool for him as he moves to ND?

As a devout Hokie fan, my reaction to Notre Dame is:


yawn, ho hum

When the now former players don't even applaud, with some walking out of the "farewell meeting", it shows that Kelly has a character issue. He hasn't impressed me with his demeanor on TV with his players and coaches in the slightest.

I suspect the ND roller coaster will continue, which is fine with me. They seem to want to be the New York Yankees of college football, but even with their own TV network (NDBC), their track record in recent years isn't good. You can't buy college players, and lots of big time schools have overwhelming facilities and programs. Some day they will figure out they need to join a good conference.

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"I suspect the ND roller coaster will continue, which is fine with me."

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Not only is the head coach leaving, but his coordinators and several position coaches are going with him. Cincinatti is screwed from a recruiting standpoint. Will the waterboy coach the bowl game? I wouldn't take Cincinatti and twenty points against Florida.

quote:

I'm not sure who is unclassy in this:

1. Notre Dame
2. Brian Kelly
3. The coach-changing process?

It for sure is Notre Dame. To make an announcement during ESPN's awards show last night was tacky. To take attention away from well deserving players who proved it on the field to get attention on your off the field coaching change speaks volumes about that school.

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I've got just the recipe to make Cincinnati a winner!

AWARD-WINNING CINCINNATI CHILI RECIPE

My friend has won every Chili Cookoff and Super Bowl bet she has ever entered with this recipe. It is unique in that it is spiced with cinnamon, chocolate, and one very effective ingredient guaranteed to move a team. It is served over vermicelli or thin spaghetti. To top it off, use cheese, pinto and/or kidney beans, onion, oyster crackers and Frank's Red Hot©. Make this recipe only if proper facilities are in place to handle the results.

Winning Cincinnati Chili

1 PICK-UP LOAD ground beef.
150 LB medium onion, finely chopped.
200 cloves of garlic, minced.
20 CUPS chili powder.
1 KNAPSACK unsweetened cocoa.
1 5 LB BAG EACH dry mustard, cumin, paprika and salt.
12 CUPS EACH cayenne pepper and black pepper.
6 CUPS EACH allspice, cardamom, cinnamon and cloves.
2 30 GAL TRASH CANS (preferably clean) crushed tomatoes (or in this case oranges).
10 #10 CANS tomato sauce.
3 CASES Fleets Phospho-Soda© colonoscopy prep kits.
Run the hose for a minute or two for water or suit to taste.

Cook ground beef (don't forget to take it out of the truck), onions, and garlic in the largest pan you have ever seen or 400 Dutch ovens over medium high heat until meat loses red color (or until the headlights turn off if you forgot to remove the truck). Pour off drippings, and if necessary crankcase oil, brake fluid, and coolant. Stir in remaining ingredients. Bring to boil, reduce heat, adjust the seat, and simmer uncovered for 1-1 1/2 hours or 150 miles whichever comes first.

Serve over vermicelli, thin spaghetti noodles, or those wiring harnesses you won't be needing anymore.

Top with:

Finely shredded cheddar cheese.
Pinto and/or kidney beans.
Finely chopped onion.
Oyster crackers.
Frank's Red Hot©.
Any knobs, change, or bottle caps that cooked loose.

Feeds one highly ranked football team.



With a smiling face and restrained laughter serve to the entire voracious Gator team. Stand way, way back and enjoy!

And a reminder...don't skimp on the porta-potties. And it will help to keep the doors propped open! Oh...the firehose. Have a few of those handy.





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quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

I'm not sure who is unclassy in this:

1. Notre Dame
2. Brian Kelly
3. The coach-changing process?

It for sure is Notre Dame. To make an announcement during ESPN's awards show last night was tacky. To take attention away from well deserving players who proved it on the field to get attention on your off the field coaching change speaks volumes about that school.

In their eyes nothing is bigger and more important than Notre Dame football. It's why they're so easy to root against.

I love all this ND stuff--I had a carpenter forman years back, strict catholic, who used to argue with me that they didn't do "favors" for the football recruits when they were annually in the Top 10---now that the playing field has leveled things ain't the same---the ND people do not realize it yet but they are now just like all the other football "powers"

And yeah I understand the business end of it all but Kelly screwed his Cincy kids--You had to like the Cincy senior who stated publicly that " we made the plans--he isn't needed--we will do what we have to"

Kids transfer and get a one year sit out--coaches transfer and the school they leave gets a Million dollar payoff while,the coach gets a huge increase in pay and no penalty to the coach--Yeah Right !!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Wouldn't Kelly beating Florida be a great recruiting tool for him as he moves to ND?

The devils advocate asks.......

Wouldn't a blue chip prospect be impressed if the future ND coach would rather sit in his living than on the sideline with another team playing in a BCS bowl? Many would think it is showing a commitment to his new program.

This seems like the perfect time to recruit because many of the power teams you are competing for recruits with are preparing for a bowl.

quote:

Kids transfer and get a one year sit out--coaches transfer and the school they leave gets a Million dollar payoff while,the coach gets a huge increase in pay and no penalty to the coach--Yeah Right !!!!!

Here's the one I hate. The coach leaves just ahead of the NCAA hound dogs. The team ends up on probation, the players can't do a bowl trip and the coach gets away free at a new program.

Lou Holtz was caught cheating everywhere but Notre Dame. Did he find God at Notre Dame? I doubt it. The joke used to be every time Holtz was caught cheating at Notre Dame a second tier program in the region would be put on probation as a warning the NCAA is watching.

quote:

screwed his Cincy kids

Trhit

Nothing wron with taking the job but the timing is just awful. why Notre Dame and Kelly could not have waited till after the Bowl game is beyond me. Those players at cincinatti were never thought of in this matter. Who cares about them? Well evidently no one involved. Sad

Just think of the chaos we would have had if they would not have added a second to the clock in the Big 12 championship....

1-Texas would not be in the championship,
2-TCU would still be ticked off because Cincy would be in,
3-Cincy would be playing for the mythical NC without a headcoach.

Wow.

What bugs me the most about this kind of thing is that you are always hearing from coaches about staying with the program, the team is more important than the player. Sacrifice for the good of the team.

Then a big time coach pulls this !@#@#. No wonder there isn't any loyalty. The me first attitude starts at the top and works its way to the players. Not the other way around.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:

The me first attitude starts at the top and works its way to the players. Not the other way around.

Narcissim at it's finest!

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Just think of the chaos we would have had if they would not have added a second to the clock in the Big 12 championship....

1-Texas would not be in the championship,
2-TCU would still be ticked off because Cincy would be in,
3-Cincy would be playing for the mythical NC without a headcoach.

Wow.

If Cincy was in the "snicker" "snicker" national chapionship game there is no way he takes the Notre Dame job. He's getting ripped enough as it is but imagine how bad it would be if he did that.

Probably wait until after the "giggle" "giggle" national championship game to take the job if he did. But that would still get him roasted.

The NCAA should implement a rule coaches can't be interviewed until their season is over. It's the only way to protect the players.

There's nothing wrong with Kelly taking the Notre Dame job. It's considered one of the most prestigious coaching jobs in sports. But the timing was classless by Kelly and Notre Dame. The hell with recruiting. Show some respect and class. You don't walk out of a real job the day you submit your resignation unless the company shows you the door.

Besides, college football isn't big business and big bucks. It's about student-athletes.

Under his breath the evil side of rz1 is saying

quote:

How soon we forget what these kids are going to school for. It's not for a BCS bowl, its for an education (tuition, room, board). The backside is athletics and the pursuit of a potential pro contract. We also forget that the coaches contract is not with the NCAA, it's with the school or maybe we want the NCAA have more power than it now has. Maybe Cinci should have written in his contract that he could not pursue/interview/accept another job until the ongoing season was completed.

These are not necessarily my opinions, rather an argument from another dimension.

Put yourself in Kelly's spot, Would you have done different? Would you have sacrificed your families lifelong financial well-being and your professional dream for 80 kids who will be gone, and for the most part out of your life in 3 years or less?

If yes, you would do different, then the Univ of Cinci is your retirement village.

Put yourself in the ND AD's spot, Would you have done different? If you were the CEO of a top 10 corp and the R&D group reported that you would lose the patents on new products unless they could be secured promptly, and the bean counter said future years like the past are not acceptable, and the Sales Dept predicted that a sudden earth shaking news flash would be the best thing for future profits. Would you postpone that hiring decision for a more "pc" time?

If yes, you would do different, then that golden dome over your office may be replaced with golden arches.

I do see the method behind Kelly's and ND maddness. Do I like it....personally no, but, it's their business and not mine. If this hiring scenario were to happen at Freakin U, not a post would be mentioned on this site but the same number of players lives would be affected.

IMO, The monster was created and supported by the media and ever growing alumni numbers with deep pockets, loud voices, and selfish values.

In baseball it also happens at all levels, but to different degrees. From LL's to travel teams to HS, to college to pros there will always be someone trying to buy/steal the top rung. As parents we can use these examples as a tool to teach our kids that the world is not a bed of roses but if you give 110% on and off the field, be your own person, respect others, you will succeed, and have a good chance of beating the system on your terms.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Nothing wron with taking the job but the timing is just awful. why Notre Dame and Kelly could not have waited till after the Bowl game is beyond me. Those players at cincinatti were never thought of in this matter. Who cares about them? Well evidently no one involved. Sad

That's what I'm trying to say. Of course, he should take the job but they should have waited until after the bowl game. I don't believe for one minute that three weeks of non-recruiting would hurt ND.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
The NCAA should implement a rule coaches can't be interviewed until their season is over. It's the only way to protect the players.

No kidding. There are so many NCAA rules, this would be one that actually makes sense.

Kelly was their choice. Had he insisted on keeping mum until after the bowl game, ND might not have preferred that but would've done it to get their top guy. ND would not settle for # 2 over this issue.

Bottom line, Kelly put 3 weeks of recruiting time for his new job ahead of the bowl game for his current team.

I know he'll face immediate pressure to turn the program around, but that just plain stinks.

When destiny calls you follow your calling or it passes you by. That is the truth for all of us. Those who ignore their calling usually live to regret that decision. Happiness is in the attempt to accomplish the greatest challenge of your life. All else shrinks to insignificance. Isn't that the same with all of these boys who aspire to play in the Big Show one of these days. What do you say to them, should they put their chance off to appease the idea of loyalty to a place in time, not loyalty to the dream you have been working your whole life to achieve? I don't think so. Coach Kelly did the right thing for his future, his family and for ND. Cincinnati will survive Coach Kelly, and his players who love him will wish him well and prepare for their opportunity to show the appreciation to him for leading them to a 12-0 season. Now it is time for them to come together and show that they are men who can apply the lessons they have been taught. For BB players it is always about the next at-bat, the next pitch, the next fielding opportunity. What are you going to do with it is always the question. For coaches it is no different. It is always about the next game, the next opponent, and yes the next team. That's the truth of the sports entertainment business. You better understand it or you will not survive very long in the extreme competitive environment it is.
JMO

The timing of recruiting requires this kind of timing of signing coaches.

Neither Notre Dame nor Kelly have done anything immoral, in violation of NCAA rules nor anything that is not common practice when a University and a Coach "find" one another.

I wish them both well.

Actually, Jimmy, you can make a strong argument that what ND did is immoral to the core. This is a Catholic school, espousing strong Christian values and trying to change the world.

What they failed to do here is practice the Golden Rule.

Even if it is business as usual in big time college football, the behavior of the institution that is ND in this situation is no less than disgusting, unethical and, yes, even immoral. Even if a recruiting advantage would have been lost -- and it would have been -- ND could have -- and should have -- waited until Cincinnati finished is season. It was the only right and moral thing to do.

For Kelley, no surprise. For ND, I guess no surprise either.

As a Catholic, I am so happy I never had any desire ever to even apply to the place and happier still that none of my kids did. It has nothing special to offer at all. It only pretends to.

I'm sorry if your sensibilities were offended. But, again, the transaction between ND and Kelly was not against any rule and was, in fact, within tradition of college football.

It may be one you disagree with, but is has nothing to do with the golden rule. Notre Dmae has a responsibility to its players and program and we would be criticizing them if they risked their program and waited while other teams signed the better coaches available.

Coaches deciding to leave a bowl bound team happens often. A coach getting a team to a bowl, or the March Tournament in the case of basketball, is often done with this as the objective. You might argue that the players are agrieved parties, and you'd be right. Unintended consequences are a b!tch.

As a Catholic and a father of an alum, I am proud of what ND teaches and how it fulfills its mission.

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Don't keep 'em in the package jemaz...open it up and pass 'em out!






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quote:

jemaz quote:
It has nothing special to offer at all. It only pretends to.

So true jemaz.

The funny part is I have respected many Notre Dame athletes as great competitors and for the most part are quality people outside their sport. IMHO, the academics is quality but the Athletic dept hides behind the cloak of Catholicism for financial gain and an excuse to get into blue chippers homes, and that is so wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

jemaz quote:
It has nothing special to offer at all. It only pretends to.

So true jemaz.

The funny part is I have respected many Notre Dame athletes as great competitors and for the most part are quality people outside their sport. IMHO, the academics is quality but the Athletic dept hides behind the cloak of Catholicism for financial gain and an excuse to get into blue chippers homes, and that is so wrong.

Spoken as one who, it would appear, does not have first hand experience with that of which he speaks.

My daughter experienced the University working to fullfill its mission statement and mission (http://www.nd.edu/aboutnd/mission-statement/) in her classrooms, sport team, on campus life and during university organized work-stays in impoverished areas of South America and the United States, building homee and schools, digging wells and irriagation systems and educationing the people in hygiene, health, food safety and self advocacy.

I do not suggest that ND has a monopoly on this, but neither do they "hide behind" their catholicism and ignore their obligations.

Quote by Tx-Husker:
Just think of the chaos we would have had if they would not have added a second to the clock in the Big 12 championship....

I think you meant to say- Just think of the chaos we would have had if they would not have added put back the second on the clock in the Big 12 championship....

No, I said it right workinghard. Official game clock on the field said 00:00. ABC's clock said 00:01. The changed the official clock to match ABC's clock.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
No, I said it right workinghard. Official game clock on the field said 00:00. ABC's clock said 00:01. The changed the official clock to match ABC's clock.

Neither the scoreboard clock nor the tv clock are the official time. There's a game official with an official clock somewhere in a booth.

So sorry to mispeak, RJM. The official game clock said 00:00. ABC's clock said 00:01. The changed the official clock to match ABC's clock.

If Cinncinnati beats Florida, without their head coach, I will declare the Bearcats national champions!

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Spoken as one who, it would appear, does not have first hand experience with that of which he speaks...

...I do not suggest that ND has a monopoly on this, but neither do they "hide behind" their catholicism and ignore their obligations.

Jimmy03,
If you read my post I have much respect for the institution, their mission, and the graduates. I will question the Athletic Departments facade of following that Catholic mission statement. The ND Athletic dept did not line it's pockets by following that same golden rule.

quote:

If Cinncinnati beats Florida, without their head coach, I will declare the Bearcats national champions!

Would that make them the "VD National Champions"? Not sure I want to see that trophy.

Husker,

I'll prevent from putting the smiley face this time since you sound so bitter.

The better team usually finds a way of winning controversial or close games. You know, kind of like New Orleans did last week vs Washington.

(1) Alabama vs (2) Texas for the BCS National Championship!

It is what it is........

I'm not bitter. Nebraska's defense played fantasic...just like they have all year. Offense sucked wind. You get 100 yards of offense and you won't win many games. You never heard me say Texas wasn't the better team.

quote:

The timing of recruiting requires this kind of timing of signing coaches.

the timing for recruiting for who? Notre Dame. What about the recruiting for Cincinatti.

All I hope for is that we are back here at the end of Kelly's contract questioning the never-ending hypocrisy of ND and looking back on five more years of mediocrity.

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Whoops! Who has the chisel?






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Dont worry Holden. We will be sitting here in five years watching this same story unfold once again. And BK will be back at Grand Valley State telling those guys there is no where he would rather be.

And the next hot shot that got some players to buy into what he was selling will be telling ND how they will have their program restored to its glory days.

quote:

I'm sorry if your sensibilities were offended. But, again, the transaction between ND and Kelly was not against any rule and was, in fact, within tradition of college football.

It concerns me regarding society when people can't distinguish between legal and ethical. One thing I've noticed about ND alums and the millions of ND fans who probably lack the intelligence to find South Bend on a map, is they have such rose colored glasses, whatever ND does must be right since they have Jesus on their side. It's why I can't stand Notre Dame and hope they continue their football abyss.

Who's going to coach Cincinnati? Kelly took the offensive and defensive coordinators and half the position coaches with him. Class act Notre Dame and Kelly!

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE]
It concerns me regarding society when people can't di/stinguish between legal and ethical. One thing I've noticed about ND alums is they have such rose colored glasses, whatever ND does must be right since they have Jesus on their side. It's why I can't stand Notre Dame and hope they continue their football abyss.

I find nothing unethical about signing a new coach after getting permission from his previous employer to enter into and complete negotiations.

I do not find ND's actions unethical, nor did I find Alabama's, Miami's and numerous other colleges' actions unethical when the acted in like manner.

From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.

I know of no ND alum who truly believes that "Jesus is on their side." I do know a number of them who believe they are on Jesus's side.

The one million dollar check from ND(Kelly buyout) to Cincy did not hurt either , did it !!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
[QUOTE]
It concerns me regarding society when people can't di/stinguish between legal and ethical. One thing I've noticed about ND alums is they have such rose colored glasses, whatever ND does must be right since they have Jesus on their side. It's why I can't stand Notre Dame and hope they continue their football abyss.

I find nothing unethical about signing a new coach after getting permission from his previous employer to enter into and complete negotiations.

I do not find ND's actions unethical, nor did I find Alabama's, Miami's and numerous other colleges' actions unethical when the acted in like manner.

From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.

I know of no ND alum who truly believes that "Jesus is on their side." I do know a number of them who believe they are on Jesus's side.

Why is Notre Dame continually ranked in the preseason top twenty coming off bad seasons? Notre Dame bias. The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.

How come EVERY football program Lou Holtz ever coached was placed on probation except Notre Dame even though there were lots of allegations and investigations? Notre Dame bias.

It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.

Dang RJM I guess you really dont like ND after all! I have never like ND either. But its because I have always felt they were given things others had to earn. They are constantly ranked when they have no business being ranked. Why? Because they were really good for a long time. But reality is they have not be good for a long long time. They dont play in a conference. They can hand pick their entire schedule and they do. And they still cant put a decent record in the book. Look at their schedule this year. And look who they lost to. They have been beat by Navy two years in a row. Nothing against Navy I always pull them Army and Air Force. But ND pulls in all these five star recruits and they continue to lose to national powers like UNC UCONN and Navy?

They want to be put on this pedastal of college football but when in reality was the last time they were actually relevent in college football? Twenty five years ago maybe? Everyone of their games is televised. The bottom line is I dont think there is one college football program in the nation that is more despised than ND. For many reasons. Charlie was the savior of ND football. He came in with that arrogant smug attitude and left a beat down humble character. BK comes in with the same swagger. And he will leave with the same look on his face that Charlie did. "Dam should have stayed at Cincy!"

You can walk around with a swagger , you can act like your sh@t dont stink , when you are actually really good. But to do it just because your ND when you have been average at best for the last 25 years? Maybe Bob Davie will come back when Kelly fails or maybe even Jerry Faust?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:...I dont think there is one college football program in the nation that is more despised than ND...

They're the Dallas Cowboys of college football.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.

quote:

RJM:

The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.

It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.

It's rare I am proven correct so quickly. I'll have to show my wife.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.

quote:

RJM:

The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.

It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.

It's rare I am proven correct so quickly. I'll have to show my wife.

My view isn't colored. Coach May wrote a longer version of what I think. And most of the Notre Dame fans I know are obnoxious about nothing. Notre Dame football is dead. And the school is academically overrated due to it's past football reputation. Admission is only difficult because so many Catholics want to go there, not because it's a top school with academically talented kids beating down the door.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

From your post, you seem to have a disdain for ND and it just may be coloring your opinion.

quote:

RJM:

The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.

It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.

It's rare I am proven correct so quickly. I'll have to show my wife.

My view isn't colored. Coach May wrote a longer version of what I think. And most of the Notre Dame fans I know are obnoxious about nothing. Notre Dame football is dead. And the school is academically overrated due to it's past football reputation. Admission is only difficult because so many Catholics want to go there, not because it's a top school with academically talented kids beating down the door.

I'll have to withdraw from this thread. I cannot fathom how I can commnicate with one who can claim no bias, yet write the posts you have written.

(Eaxamples: The entire Notre Dame aura makes me sick. It's obnoxious.

It pleases me Notre Dame sucks in football. Now let's drive a stake through the reputation's heart with Kelly karma.

Notre Dame football is dead. And the school is academically overrated due to it's past football reputation.)

I'm sure we'll find other areas in which we can understand one another.

BTW, in regards to academics:

"By virtually any measurement, the University of Notre Dame wins the 2009 national championship for graduating its student-athletes.

Whether measured by the federal government in its Department of Education report or by the NCAA through its Graduation Success Rate (GSR) numbers, graduation rates for Notre Dame student-athletes rank either number one or among the handful of national leaders in all major categories among all major football-playing colleges and universities.

Notre Dame's institutional research found that Irish student-athletes ranked number one in eight of 10 major categories - ranking second in one and third in another. Those are far and away the best results for Notre Dame in the five years the NCAA has published both the GSR and federal numbers. The eight number-one rankings are four more than ever achieved in any other year (the four top rankings came in 2008).

Notre Dame led the nation in the GSR ratings for all student-athletes (at 99), while also ranking first in both the GSR and federal standings for male student-athletes (98 GSR, 88 federal), female student-athletes (100 GSR, 94 federal) and black student-athletes (97 GSR, 85 federal) -- as well as first in the GSR listing for football student-athletes (96).

Both the federal graduation-rate figures and the GSR numbers for Notre Dame student-athletes rated the Irish in five major categories among the 120 football-playing institutions in the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly Division I-A)."

I despise ND football as much or more than anyone. But the comments about ND academics are just plain wrong. In fact, since ND is one of the few national universities that focuses on undergraduate education, if anything it may be underrated. And you have no idea how much I hate having to write that...

Holden , dang it! Just because its true doesnt mean you have to say it!

I don't know that there's any way to evaluate the quality of teaching from one university to the next. Research, maybe, but not classroom instruction.

What is commonly evaluated is the caliber of the graduates. To a great extent, this is a function of the caliber of those granted admission.

Whether it's because it is the top choice of so many people of a particular religious persuasion, whether it is because of football, or whether it's for specific programs, Notre Dame has without question reached a point where its student body is of very, very high caliber. Any time you have a high ratio of applicants to available spots, competition is keen and the result is a student body of impressive credentials.

If you let your disdain for the institution lead you to ignore those facts, believing your preconceptions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that is the very definition of prejudice -- i.e., you have prejudged the issue. And when your disdain has no rational basis, what are we left to think?

Sometimes when I write something on here, I go back later and think, better that I delete that one. Just a suggestion.

Based on Midlo Dad's post I think I have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that my hatred of ND football is completely rational.

Despite my feelings for ND athletics they have moved up my list for the "lower than whale shet" athletic programs after watching the "Outside the Lines" segment concerning FL States academic policies.

If you didn't see it, here's a link to the 15 min segment.

FL State

When thinking about ND it helps to separate the football program, the school itself and its graduates. As a football program say whatever negative thing you wish to say (usually it evolves around being overrated) and while they are far from perfect, at least they do things the right way as far as recruiting student-athletes and making them go to class and graduate. I think this focus trumps everything negative that detractors might have to say. The school itself is an excellent school that produces worth while contributors to our society. As far as their vocal graduates, they are, in my opinion, the reason why so many of us have such decidely mixed (at best) perspectives on the school. They are suffocating in their holy than thou attitude. Nevertheless, having said all that, I'll still ND over the current FSU mess, Miami U of the '80's, current USC mess, etc etc etc.

Money tends to corrupt, absolute money corrupts absolutely, just ask Tiger.

I am not a ND fan but I can tell you that their alumni pipeline is second to none--in fact I worked for a young man who was an ND grad and he offered to do whatever he could for my son if my son had interest in ND

quote:

Besides, college football isn't big business and big bucks. It's about student-athletes.

College football is not big business !!!!


Come out of the cave sir !!!

quote:

Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:

quote:

Besides, college football isn't big business and big bucks. It's about student-athletes.

4 words for you: WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!

When you copied my post you excluded one very important part .....

quote:

If you let your disdain for the institution lead you to ignore those facts, believing your preconceptions in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that is the very definition of prejudice -- i.e., you have prejudged the issue. And when your disdain has no rational basis, what are we left to think?

My perception is based on kids I know who have been accepted to Notre Dame in the past few years who are not very bright kids. They're not college athletes either.

4 words:
WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Despite my feelings for ND athletics they have moved up my list for the "lower than whale shet" athletic programs after watching the "Outside the Lines" segment concerning FL States academic policies.

If you didn't see it, here's a link to the 15 min segment.

[url=http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/outside-the-lines-otl-florida-state-academic-
scandal/2724413759]FL State [/url]

Like that one huh, that's been going on for YEARS at FSU and it's just not in FB.

Kind of in the middle here with the way ND and the bears coach did things, couldn't ND have kept most of their coaching staff in tact,Kelly could have left, but his coaching staff remained until after the bowl game.

That's the problem when you have to wait so long for bowl games.

IMO, it's the kids that got screwed, and that's a shame. ND always seems to get away with too much.

Here's the right way. Al Golden is a class act. He's one of the up and coming college coaches. Don't be surprised if he's the next Cincinnati coach. At least he's focused on finishing his team's season.


Temple coach Golden focused on bowl
Dec 12, 8:28 pm EST

PHILADELPHIA (AP)—Temple coach Al Golden says he’s not speaking with any other schools about potential jobs after leading the Owls to their first bowl game since 1979.

Golden is widely considered a top target after transforming the Owls from one of the worst programs in football to a bowl-bound team. Temple (9-3) will play UCLA (6-6) in the EagleBank Bowl on Dec. 29 at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.

Golden interviewed twice in 2007 for the UCLA job that eventually went to Rick Neuheisel.

Golden said Saturday he doesn’t have any interviews lined up. His name has been mentioned in connection with the Cincinnati job that opened when Brian Kelly left for Notre Dame.

That is a good man. Temple needs to reward him for a job well done, and he needs to continue to build the Temple program. As for Notre Dame, they are a non-issue and non-factor in college football period. Why so much "to-do" about an average program that is no way close to being relevant? They think they are "10", act like they are a "10" but they really are a "6". Hopefully this will be the last Notre Dame football thread in this baseball forum.

I have never been a fan of Notre Dame football, always seem to pull for whoever they're playing. Not even sure why... Maybe jealousy?

However, I wonder how many of us wouldn't be extremely proud to have our kids receive recruiting interest and a scholarship offer from the University of Notre Dame?

How can anyone blame a coach at U of Cincinnati for taking the Notre Dame job? Nothing against Cincinnati, but those two jobs are much different in many ways. Different level of expectation, tradition, national attention, fan support, resources, and compensation.

Whether they win or not, whether people love them or hate them, Notre Dame is the big time!

Also I don't quite understand why anyone would make light of Notre Dame's schedule. This year they played 8 teams that are in bowl games and 3 others who missed being bowl teams by one game. The only teams they played that are not in bowl games are all in either the Big10 or Pac10. Scheduling Michigan at Michigan (over 100,000 fans) is not what anyone would call scheduling a weak opponent. Michigan was one win from being a bowl team. Purdue beat Ohio State and lost by 2 points to Oregon (the Rose Bowl teams). Purdue was one win from being a bowl team. Washington beat Southern Cal and Arizona and they had perhaps the first QB to be drafted next year. Washington was also one win from being a bowl team.

All of Notre Dame's loses were by a touchdown or less.

I still pull for whoever Notre Dame is playing against, but at the same time have great respect for the Notre Dame football program, all their athletics and especially the university.

quote:

Temple needs to reward him for a job well done, and he needs to continue to build the Temple program.

Golden has been an assistant at Penn State, Virginia and Boston College. His final destination is not going to be a mid major program. His stock is real high right now. He has a good shot at being the Cincinnati coach if they can wait until his season is over.

Temple screwed up when their program was in such disarraay they were kicked out of the Big East. If they were still in the conference maybe Golden would stay like Greg Schiano built the program and stayed at Rutgers.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I have never been a fan of Notre Dame football, always seem to pull for whoever they're playing. Not even sure why... Maybe jealousy?

However, I wonder how many of us wouldn't be extremely proud to have our kids receive recruiting interest and a scholarship offer from the University of Notre Dame?

How can anyone blame a coach at U of Cincinnati for taking the Notre Dame job? Nothing against Cincinnati, but those two jobs are much different in many ways. Different level of expectation, tradition, national attention, fan support, resources, and compensation.

Whether they win or not, whether people love them or hate them, Notre Dame is the big time!

Also I don't quite understand why anyone would make light of Notre Dame's schedule. This year they played 8 teams that are in bowl games and 3 others who missed being bowl teams by one game. The only teams they played that are not in bowl games are all in either the Big10 or Pac10. Scheduling Michigan at Michigan (over 100,000 fans) is not what anyone would call scheduling a weak opponent. Michigan was one win from being a bowl team. Purdue beat Ohio State and lost by 2 points to Oregon (the Rose Bowl teams). Purdue was one win from being a bowl team. Washington beat Southern Cal and Arizona and they had perhaps the first QB to be drafted next year. Washington was also one win from being a bowl team.

All of Notre Dame's loses were by a touchdown or less.

I still pull for whoever Notre Dame is playing against, but at the same time have great respect for the Notre Dame football program, all their athletics and especially the university.

Being a bowl team is almost meaningless these days. ND only played two teams ranked in the final Top 25, neither or which are there on a regular basis. Last year I believe they played one--USC.

I think there is one point that no one has brought up that makes this a positive move by Cinncy's coach and ND. IF he were to stay at Cincinnati and ND was to wait on him (which I doubt) they would get nothing but "so are you going to ND" "How do you feel about your coach going to ND" every day until the bowl game. As would a number of other coaches and teams. With this decision being made early it allows Cincinnati and other teams whose coaches were mentioned to move by the distraction and prepare for their bowl games.

By the way people hate ND for the same reasons they hate the Cowboys, Steelers, Yankees, and Lakers. Funny how nobody ever seems to hate someone like Duke Football.

Great line by the Hokie radio commentators during their last regular season game, when the Notre Dame score came across the screen:

"Next year they play 4 non-BCS schools, as well as Army, Navy, and Air Force. Heck, they'd play the Marine Corps too if they had a team..."


They do play a weak schedule. It's impossible to play top 20 opposition every week, and sometimes teams are scheduled that end up being in down years when the games are played, but this past season, before the first games were played, that great absolutely unbiased commentator, Lou "love those Irish" Holtz, said their schedule was such that he predicted a 10-1 finish, with Weiss as coach of the Year and Clausen with the Heisman Trophy.

As Maxwell Smart would say, 'Missed it by THAT much."

quote:

By the way people hate ND for the same reasons they hate the Cowboys, Steelers, Yankees, and Lakers. Funny how nobody ever seems to hate someone like Duke Football.

Not true. Those other teams win. People don't like Notre Dame over their attitude of entitlement and thinking they're as successful as those other teams. Notre Dame's success is from a past era and their fans are still trying to live off it like it's happening now.

Here's a class act. It shows lot's of character and leadership. It's the molding of student athletes into men:

Players were angry and stunned when Kelly told them last Thursday—after their annual awards banquet—that he was leaving for Notre Dame. A week earlier, Kelly had told his players he was happy in Cincinnati, and said on a radio show that he was staying.

AH !!!! if only the days of ARA would return

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
AH !!!! if only the days of ARA would return

Tales of Notre Dame courage and character in the Parseghian era ....

Bama went undefeated and was two-time defending national champions, but did not win the national title in 1966 because voters chose to reward Notre Dame after Fighting Irish coach Ara Parseghian, with his team tied 10-10 with Michigan State with 1:10 to go, chose to play for the tie rather than attempt to win the game. The Fighting Irish and Spartans both finished 9-0-1 and were ranked #1 and #2 in the polls, while Alabama finished third.

For nearly 40 years, Parseghian has defended his end-of-the-game strategy, which left many fans feeling disappointed at the game not having some sort of resolution, Michigan State fans and other Notre Dame detractors calling him a coward, and college football expert Dan Jenkins leading off his article for Sports Illustrated by saying Parseghian chose to "Tie one for the Gipper." In that same article, Parseghian was quoted as saying, "We'd fought hard to come back and tie it up. After all that, I didn't want to risk giving it to them cheap. They get reckless and it could cost them the game. I wasn't going to do a jackass thing like that at this point."

I still have fond memories of skipping church to watch the Notre Dame Football Highlights show with Lindsey Nelson commentating in the 1970's.

I'm not a Catholic and as you can see I'm not even the best at attending church! But I guess I just don't get all the ND hating here.

The real story is that there are rising programs all over the country and with that, somebody gets crowded out. ND alums may pine for the days when they were perennial contenders but it's hard to claw your way back to that level once you fall off the perch. Too many others along side you, also trying to make the same climb.

I don't see how ND hiring a hot shot rising star coach, or how that coach's changing jobs to get a massive raise (like none of us would've done that if we'd had the opportunity!), is any different than anything anyone else is doing right now. Maybe that's the real problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I still have fond memories of skipping church to watch the Notre Dame Football Highlights show with Lindsey Nelson commentating in the 1970's.

I'm not a Catholic and as you can see I'm not even the best at attending church! But I guess I just don't get all the ND hating here.

The real story is that there are rising programs all over the country and with that, somebody gets crowded out. ND alums may pine for the days when they were perennial contenders but it's hard to claw your way back to that level once you fall off the perch. Too many others along side you, also trying to make the same climb.

I don't see how ND hiring a hot shot rising star coach, or how that coach's changing jobs to get a massive raise (like none of us would've done that if we'd had the opportunity!), is any different than anything anyone else is doing right now. Maybe that's the real problem.

It's not the hiring. It's how it was done. Then tack on the high moral ground Notre Dame and it's fans think they stand on.

If Cincinnati was 7-5 or 8-4 and headed for the Obscure Bowl it wouldn't be a big deal. But they're on the verge of their greatest season ever, an undefeated season, and the coach walks on out on the team coerced by Notre Dame after he told the players he's not leaving.

When society only looks at the rules and ignores moral and ethical we have a problem. We have the holier than thou Notre Dame in the middle of a moral and ethical situation. When lawyers and corporate leaders see the world as mothing but rules without morals and ethics they're called out as scumbags.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
It's not the hiring. It's how it was done. Then tack on the high moral ground Notre Dame and it's fans think they stand on.

If Cincinnati was 7-5 or 8-4 and headed for the Obscure Bowl it wouldn't be a big deal. But they're on the verge of their greatest season ever, an undefeated season, and the coach walks on out on the team coerced by Notre Dame after he told the players he's not leaving.

When society only looks at the rules and ignores moral and ethical we have a problem. We have the holier than thou Notre Dame in the middle of a moral and ethical situation. When lawyers and corporate leaders see the world as mothing but rules without morals and ethics they're called out as scumbags.

1. There are differing views as to whether or not Notre Dame conducted itself in an immoral and unethical fashion. So, are you stating a personal opinion or attempting to declare facts?

2. Which then leads us to this question: Who is the arbiter of what is moral and ethical when it comes to hiring a football coach?

3. Was there this much outrage when Miami, Alabama and other colleges practiced the same hiring procedure?

It seems apparent to some (personal opinion) that some of the outrage exists because Notre Dame is involved.

1) The decision Kelly and Notre Dame made to strip Cincinnati of their coaching staff (Kelly took all his key assistants with him) before their biggest game in history is indecent. I don't want to hear about recruiting. Cincinnati's season isn't over.

2) I doubt few not involved with Notre Dame would disagree with the ethics and morality of the decision. It's about recruiting. Usually it's Nore Dame fans who try to define morality.

3) It's not right. But it's disgusting when it interferes with the best season in Cincinnati's history. Miami and Alabama have never attempted to claim the high moral ground. I don't see a Touchdown Jesus on their campus.

The nice thing is chances are nothing will change with Notre Dame football on the field. Kelly is just the new false messiah.

quote:

Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
4 words:
WVU - Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
That's working out real good!!!

This was my prior post.
This was very similar circumstances.
There was certainly a lot of outrage directed at both parties.
Michigan also represented itself as an upstanding do-it-the-right-way institution and football program.

Putting all the ethical and moral talk aside, you can't portray yourself as being on the moral high ground, then take actions that are contrary to that position, and not expect some public outrage and venom to spew your way.

Do they step down off their moral high ground when it is convenient for them? Then expect no one to notice the contradiction?

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
1) The decision Kelly and Notre Dame made to strip Cincinnati of their coaching staff (Kelly took all his key assistants with him) before their biggest game in history is indecent. I don't want to hear about recruiting. Cincinnati's season isn't over.

I believe Kelly offered to coach Cincinnati's bowl game and it was Cincy that decided he wouldn't. Am I wrong?

quote:

2) I doubt few not involved with Notre Dame would disagree with the ethics and morality of the decision. It's about recruiting. Usually it's Nore Dame fans who try to define morality.

I knew this was coming...the old "everybody agrees..." argument. This is usually made when one doesn't really know the stats and decides that he and those who think like him are the majority.

This is then followed by a crass generalization beginning with "usually" that is about as accurate as the first statement.

Even freshman debaters learn quickly not to rely on these types of arguments.

quote:

3) It's not right. But it's disgusting when it interferes with the best season in Cincinnati's history. Miami and Alabama have never attempted to claim the high moral ground. I don't see a Touchdown Jesus on their campus.

Again, it's not right according to whom? You? The NCAA? Some religous tract?

"Immoral" and "unethical" are strong words with well defined meanings. I could agree that in one's opinion the action could be so considered, but to make a universal claim as a statement of fact is quite a leap.

This is similar to calling a coach a liar. I never do it. It's a strong word with harsh implications. Even when I suspect a coach may be lying to me, I choose to refer to him as being mistaken, incorrect or forgetful.

Oh, and ND is a Christian school. The image of Christ was not intended to be "Touchdown" Jesus. That reference started as a joke and remains so to those who understand its history. Those who don't understand the history of it choose to accept the joke as reality. It's a pity.

I never heard ND, in this entire affair, justify their actions by putting themselves above anyone. And you're correct, neither did Miami, Alabama nor any other college of which I am aware.

quote:

The nice thing is chances are nothing will change with Notre Dame football on the field. Kelly is just the new false messiah.

Another another religious dig. Very nice.

First, take your religious card and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine. I'm Jewish. I've seen enough religious prejudice in my life. I just don't wear it like a chip on my shoulder 99% of the time like you're trying to do now. I don't find myself to be superior for being a descendant of King David. I know plenty of Notre Dame alumus and parents who think they're better than others due to their affiliation with the school. I meant messiah in terms of leading Notre Dame to the football holy land (national championship).

Blather on all you want. A lot of people don't like Notre Dame. It's not about being anti-winner. It's about the attitude Notre Dame, it's alumnus and their fans portray. None of you will ever get it. It's so obnoxious and you can't even see it because Notre Dame people genuinely believe their superiority.

So, now, Butch Jones is leaving Central Michigan (who plays Troy in the Jan 6 GMAC Bowl) to take the job at Cincinnati (who plays Florida Jan 1 in the Sugar Bowl) to replace Brian Kelly, whom he replaced at Central Michigan when Kelly went to UC.

I'm not really a Notre Dame fan, but sure did like that movie... "Rudy"!

I do have some friends who are die hard Irish fans. (doesn't everyone?) They kind of remind me of Packer fans. In fact, some of them are Packer fans!

The tradition at Notre Dame is something special. It's cool when the only goal or satisfaction is to win the National Championship. Not many programs that think that big.

Guess I thought Kelly could have handled things a bit differently. I'm sure he had his reasons. I'm just glad they didn't grab the Iowa coach.

Maybe Kelly was concerned how he might be regarded after that bowl game against Florida.

Notre Dame was terrible on defense... Very good on offense! That was why they got rid of thje coach.

I know Cincinnati won all there games, but they sure didn't do it by being a great defensive team.

The last 4 games Cincy gave up a 146 points.
The last 4 games Notre Dame gave up 111 points. ND was 0-4, Cincy was 4-0

Two teams played both Cincy and ND in those last 4 games. U Conn lost to Cincy 47-45. Pitt lost 45-44.
U Conn beat ND in 33-30 in 2 overtimes. Pitt beat ND 27-22. Pitt and U Conn scored 52 points in 2 games plus two overtimes wins against ND. Pitt and U Conn scored 89 points in two loses to Cincy.

In the other two games Cincy played Illinois while giving up 36 to arguably the worst team in the Big10. Illinois 0 points against Ohio State. Cincy beat West Virginia 24-21.

Notre Dame's other two games were against Stanford (45-38 loss) and Navy (23-21 loss)

Doesn't it seem like Florida will win the Sugar Bowl be the 40 point rule?

This all tells me that while there's no question that Cincinnati was by far the better team with by far the best record... They didn't really appear to be any better than Notre Dame on defense. It's too bad they didn't play each other, score might have been 100 to 94.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I'm not really a Notre Dame fan, but sure did like that movie... "Rudy"!

Surely, we can all agree on that!

Cleveland Dad...

Rudy gets a thumbs up from me!

Yeah, and we all hated Ara Pareseghian!

Change for the sake of change is what I see in this hire. Yes Kelly is the next new hot thing in the coaching ranks. But recruiting and winning at ND is a whole different animal than recruiting and winning at Cincy. ND's offense was top tier. Their defense was pathetic and was the reason they were out looking for a new coach. Their lack of speed and athletes on defense was obvious. If you look at UF , Florida , Texas , Alabama , just take a look at their defense and the depth on defense. Tremendous speed all over the field with outstanding athletes who all can run with great size.

Its just a total different era in college football. These top tier high school football players would rather play for the USC's LSU's Bama's Florida's Oregon's of the college world than ND. ND can not get the number's of these kids in school that these other top programs can get in to school. None of these 16 17 18 year old kids know who the Gipper is folks. Their past glory days were well before these young players of today were even born or even thought about. In other words the only people who believe or think of ND as a football power are forty and fifty years old are ND fans and or alumni.

ND was on top for many years. So was Army when they were winning National Championships and Heisman trophies. The fact is no coach can solve the problem of why they are no longer a national power. Unless ND is willing to allow "alot" of kids to get in school to play football that otherwise could not get in. Unless ND is willing to sell its reputation to the Devil in order to regain its glory days. Nothing has changed with this coaching hire.

What surprises me is the point that PG brought up. They hired an offensive guru. A guy that outscores his opponents. If you have some outstanding skill guys and you can really scheme well you can score. But if you dont have the studs on defense you can not win big in college football. And you better have alot of them.

The timing of the hire is not ND's fault imo. This happens all the time in college football. If they wanted to portray themselves as being above all of this then dont pursue him until after the bowl game and take your lumps what ever they may be for waiting. In other words take the high ground. What they proved is they are no different than anyother college program. The problem is they want everyone to believe they are.

The fact is ND its not the 50's or 60's or even 70's anymore. Everything has changed. Except you ND. So either be the Stanford Northwestern and hope to be good every once in awhile or continue to believe you are still elite in the college football world and change coaches every five years.

quote:

Blather on all you want. A lot of people don't like Notre Dame. It's not about being anti-winner. It's about the attitude Notre Dame, it's alumnus and their fans portray. None of you will ever get it. It's so obnoxious and you can't even see it because Notre Dame people genuinely believe their superiority.

RJM, tough week at work or are you like this on purpose?
BTW, I checked in the thread about supporting the HSBBW. I didn't see you post in that one...and that may be the only one you didn't.
Seems like Julie deserves your support, at least in my opinion.
So, now to your points:
I know a number of Notre Dame grads.
Among them is a former QB, who walked on at #8 in the depth chart. Stuck with it and ended up starting some games his senior year. He is very proud of his alma mater. But he is also one of the nicest young men I know. He will now be graduating from the MBA program at Stanford and moving to NYC where he was one of the first hires by a multi-national powerhouse.
Still recognizes he puts his pants on one leg at a time. Our group of frieds loves to tease him about being a Golden Domer. My son the DIII kid and Pat, the ND QB have one great relationship. For Halloween, our son dressed up as a 1961 Columbia football player as a tribute to our good friend, and the President of their Board of Trustees. The ND kid dressed up as a baseball player..our son.
Another grad and good friend is Ted Robinson, the announcer. Great, great guy. Loves ND. Met his wife there. His children attended and one tried to walk on in baseball. Great family just like so many families.
I cannot imagine two better alums from ND and two nicer, more generous, bright, articulate and friendly people than these two, and they are just 2 examples.
I am not sure why you find it so appealing to lump "us" or a "lot of people" with your feelings about ND and its alums. Personally, I could say you have a lot of "arrogance" yourself thinking you "speak" for a "lot of people" but I won't and don't feel you do.
People are people whether they graduate from ND, Stanford or the University of Montana, or don't graduate from anywhere.
Some are arrogant, some are the best people you can find.
Maybe lumping and categorizing works for you.
But, to be honest, it isn't very appealing.
Just to make things accurate going forward, if you want to excoriate ND and its alums for reasons personal to you, excoriate all you want.
From where I sit, I would ask that you not try and speak for anyone other than yourself.

Coach May,

Actually ND has been close to the top in recent years.

2005 they were 9-2 and lost to Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl. Ohio State played in three recent national championships and won it all in 2002.

Their two loses were in overtime to Michigan State and a 34-31 loss to USC. USC won two national championships and played in a couple of others in the 2000s.

In 2006 they were 10-1 (losing to Michigan) before losing to USC and then LSU in the Sugar Bowl. LSU was a national champs in the 2000s.

Those are two BCS bowls in back to back years and only a few years ago.

Also Notre Dame was 11-1 under Lou holtz in 1993 and 12-1 in 89. And they actually won the national championship in 88.

Notre Dame might be down, but I'd be surprised if they stay down forever. They sure lost a lot of close games the past two years.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I'm not really a Notre Dame fan, but sure did like that movie... "Rudy"!

Surely, we can all agree on that!

Wait, wait, wait wait. Obviously there was a "hanging chad" problem when my vote was recieved. That movie put me to sleep.

I have heard that the "real" Rudy was not that well liked at ND and was not at all what the movie depicted---just what I was told

And you have to go and ruin my whole theory by bringing up little things like facts!

Maybe it just seems like a long time? You know when you start getting old your memory just aint what it used to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
And you have to go and ruin my whole theory by bringing up little things like facts!

Maybe it just seems like a long time? You know when you start getting old your memory just aint what it used to be.

Coach, you're safe. PG left out "The Rest of the Story." It can be summarized in two parts. First, as was typical until (finally!) this year, ND was grossly overrated those years. Second, they didn't just lose those BSC bowl games in which they did not belong in the first place, they were SLAUGHTERED!! I believe the streak of bowl losses got up to 9 before they travelled halfway around the world last year to beat up on a Hawaii team that should be playing 1-AA.

So I don't think you can really characterize them as "close to the top" even then.

I have some good friends who are ND alums. I can't lump all alums together as obnoxious. But I CAN lump all ND football fans together in that category--even my friends on Saturdays in the fall.

Now it's time to focus on Northwestern's impending upset of Auburn!

quote:

Now it's time to focus on Northwestern's impending upset of Auburn!

When NW upset WI this year a reporter asked why it looked like NW knew what what play was coming and the UW player said matter-a-factly "They're a lot smarter than us"

I will pulling for NW. I became a fan a few years back when they had that great run. There are certain programs I have always pulled for when they are not playing my fav team. Stanford has always been one as well. I was a big Jim Plunkett fan growing up. And I know if your playing at Stanford you are also a student athlete and not a hired gun.

After watching that 30/30 episode on ESPN about the U and then the program done by ESPN on FSU and its scandal its becoming increasingly harder for me to pull for some of these programs. Maybe we need two divisions. Those that do it with true student athletes and those that dont.

Just when you think the fire is out a hidden ember flares up and the flames rage again.

I'm laying odds on which thread ends first, this one or the climate change one.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
I will pulling for NW. I became a fan a few years back when they had that great run.

lol, Coach May, how about their not so great run? A fellow from my HS went to Northwestern in 1977. Poor guy wound up on ESPN's 'third worst college football team of all time'.

trivia- who was the coach of that Northwestern team?

quote:

I checked in the thread about supporting the HSBBW. I didn't see you post in that one...and that may be the only one you didn't.

Aren't we smug this week! I didn't realize I had to lay claim to my donation. I just did it, like last time there was a need.

Thanks for making the donation.
Julie won't say it, but it means a lot.
Actually, it means a lot to everyone. Being a member of this site, I am one of them.
Nothing smug about it.
Just thought it would be a good place we might look to find some balance and agreement this week.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

By the way people hate ND for the same reasons they hate the Cowboys, Steelers, Yankees, and Lakers. Funny how nobody ever seems to hate someone like Duke Football.

Not true. Those other teams win. People don't like Notre Dame over their attitude of entitlement and thinking they're as successful as those other teams. Notre Dame's success is from a past era and their fans are still trying to live off it like it's happening now.

HAHA yeah but I doubt many of us (and yes that includes me) ND haters just started watching college football. Most new college football fans don't care one way or another about ND. Those of us that do have strong feeling about them, good or bad, developed those feelings years ago.

I do have to agree with PG though, IMO some of Coach Kelly's decision to leave may have had something to do with avoiding the 50 point spanking Cinncy is about to get.

quote:

And you have to go and ruin my whole theory by bringing up little things like facts!

Maybe it just seems like a long time? You know when you start getting old your memory just aint what it used to be.

I can't remember if my memory was any better when I was younger.

quote:

Coach, you're safe. PG left out "The Rest of the Story." It can be summarized in two parts. First, as was typical until (finally!) this year, ND was grossly overrated those years. Second, they didn't just lose those BSC bowl games in which they did not belong in the first place, they were SLAUGHTERED!!

And you have to go and ruin my whole theory by bringing up little things like facts!

quote:

Coach Scotty quote:
I do have to agree with PG though, IMO some of Coach Kelly's decision to leave may have had something to do with avoiding the 50 point spanking Cinncy is about to get.

Wouldn't Cinncy be in a win/win situation by throwing Kelly off campus. If they win the game they can say he was expendable, if they lose they can blame it turmoil initiated in South Bend.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
Just when you think the fire is out a hidden ember flares up and the flames rage again.

I'm laying odds on which thread ends first, this one or the climate change one.

S

There's a global warming thread? Where?? I want in on that one too!!!

Do not see any global warming here in the Northeast

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Coach Scotty quote:
I do have to agree with PG though, IMO some of Coach Kelly's decision to leave may have had something to do with avoiding the 50 point spanking Cinncy is about to get.

Wouldn't Cinncy be in a win/win situation by throwing Kelly off campus. If they win the game they can say he was expendable, if they lose they can blame it turmoil initiated in South Bend.

Yeah good point.