Offering Information

As a coach my responsibility to the player is to be honest with any college coach or scout who might contact me.

One way to ease the situation is to tell the coach my thoughts but suggest that if he has the chance the coach might want to check him out in action. I have done this on occasion and had coaches respond with "you were right" after they saw him.


I also feel it is my responsibility to tell them about the kids personality and any family situations that may be there.

Integrity is a key in this process---screw up once and word will get around very rapidly

I'm with TR you have to be honest with the college coach. If you don't see the same thing that he does then tell him something like "Coach thanks for calling about ________ but I'm not sure if I can agree with you on his level of talent. I would really think he would struggle at your level of play because he ____________. If you would like a schedule of our games so you might be able to watch him let me know and I will get it to you so you can see for yourself. I know that's my opinion and you need to make your own decision but I would love to help out in any way I can."

If a college coach signs a kid without really seeing him at some point - game, showcase, camp - then it's his fault. I don't want to build up some kid and then all of a sudden he falls completely short of expectations at that level. You can probably get away with it once but if you keep doing it over and over then you destroy your credibility. Eventually you might have a kid who can play at that level and the coach will blow you off because nobody else has lived up to your billing of them.

Besides it's your job to do what's best for the kid. Promoting him for a level he is not able to play at is setting him up for failure. Push him to a level they can compete at.

TRHit,
What makes you think it is even remotely your responsibility to talk about your players family situation with another coach?

Perhaps you should step back for a minute and think about the trust and confidentiality that player expects from you.

It is about what's best for the player right???

Do you worry about the liablity of discussing those issues?

Its all about credibility. You either have it or you dont. You will not have credibility if you are not honest with the coaches that call you about a player. Then when you have a player it will hurt your ability to help him. Just like if you do have credibility all you have to do is make a call and they are there.

It is your responsibility to tell the truth. If you do not feel the player is capable of playing at that level then you say so. If you believe he can you say so. College coaches will ask "What kind of kid is he coach?" "What kind of home life does he have?" "How are the parents?" "Does he work hard?" "Is he a good student." "How would you say his personal make up is?"

They are going to come see the kid play if you have credibility and they like what they hear. If you dont have any credibility they wont even call you. And if you call them and you dont have any credibility they are not even listening to a word you say.

The fact is it is very important to the coaches what kind of home life , parents and what type of kid the player is. If you want to be able to help the players that can actually play at the next level you have to be honest about the ones that can not. If you are not willing to be honest and truthfull you will be left out of the equation. Because you will have a rep as a guy that has no credibility.

.
As you are not the only source...

As you will not be the one making the decision...

Give an honest opinion but most always follow up with, "...He's worth taking a look at..."

Have seen some kids I'da swore didn't belong get scooped up..

44
.

I would answer all questions honestly and would not editorialize about the kids personal or home life unless asked to do so. The exception to that would be if there is a personal or home-life issue that is overriding in the kids life.

I think suggesting that a kid be seen in action is a good one.

Just state the facts as honestly as possible...if teh talent evaluator is worth his weight, he'll figure it out.

One thing to remember is that the majority of talent evaluators didn't just fall off the turnip truck, they know what is going on.

When my son was being recruited I tried to find out as much as I could about the coaches so why shouldn't a coach do the same? And if he's making the phone call that means he is really interested in finding out all he can about a player and it is that coaches (the one receiving the call) responsibility to tell him honestly how he feels about things on the field and off the field.

I am not sure that some people realize that many coaches recruit players for several reasons (besides ability). Chemistry is very important, beleive it or not that can make or break your team. You need different personalities to mesh, you need some chiefs and you needs some indians. If your team is too lopsided, it won't work, no matter how much talent you have or don't have on the team.

Personally if a coach called inquiring about son and never asked about other things besides how he plays baseball, I am not sure I would want him to play for that coach. JMO.

As TR and Coach2709 stated, honesty is the key.

TR also touched on this and I think it is the part that is hard for a College coach to access and that is how the kid does in class, how he adapts to a leadership roles, how does he take direction, how does he react to his peers, how does he handle defeat, how is his family life, how does he respect others, has his behavior been consistent over the years, hows the ego. These are questions that I feel are right up the HS coaches alley and probably only he knows those answers as they relate to Baseball. As long as it's done with honesty, these answers are a college coaches gifts.

Physical ability many times are in the eye of the beholder, but social skills, read over time and are usually right on target, and I feel that a college coach would respect anyone who would provide him information that is not in a stat book or happens between the lines.

Sorry Coach May, I think I jump on your thoughts

I had a few years ago I had coached a number of teammates of a well know potential high draft pick. He later went in the high in the draft. Anyways I heard a ton of not so good stories about the players make up and other issues about him. Everyone who knew the player knew about this stuff. Many scouts either overlooked it or did not do their homework and asked around.

The player did not sign and got into major trouble in college, tossed off his college team. Still many MLB scouts still made excuses for his behavior.

No problem rz you are 100% correct. What a coach can see does not bother him. If he likes what he sees he has that one figured out. Its what they can't see that troubles them. Those are the things they want to find out. And the only way to find out is to ask those that are in the best posistion to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Mendozaline:
TRHit,
What makes you think it is even remotely your responsibility to talk about your players family situation with another coach?

Perhaps you should step back for a minute and think about the trust and confidentiality that player expects from you....

I couldn't agree with you more Mendozaline. And welcome to the HSbaseballweb?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
As a coach my responsibility to the player is to be honest with any college coach or scout who might contact me.

One way to ease the situation is to tell the coach my thoughts but suggest that if he has the chance the coach might want to check him out in action. I have done this on occasion and had coaches respond with "you were right" after they saw him.


I also feel it is my responsibility to tell them about the kids personality and any family situations that may be there.

Integrity is a key in this process---screw up once and word will get around very rapidly
______________________________________________
It is not a case of do I think so or not, it is a question of condemnation without solid proof

For Me I have no decision as yet and as I said regarding Bonds show me solid proof.

Some questions for McNAmee which nobody answered:

Why was he off the police force in three years?---was he thrown off because of the rape escapade and his lying?

Why was he a MLB employee with a sham of a PHD degree? Does that "degree" give him the right to give injections of any kind?

If the Mitchell Report and investigation was so complete how come all this new "stuff", I won't call it evidence, is just now coming to light?



TRhit

Probably just me, but I have trouble with the apparentdifferences in these two posts, and others on similar issues.

Mendozaline

I answer their questions---their is no confidentiality involved ---he plays for our program --I want the kid to have the best shot he can have in the right place and have the coach fully aware of what type of person he is getting--all this PC garbage is not even in my picture--

Let me give you an example---I had a player a few years back who was Latino and I got a call from a college in the midwest about him-- their entire team was blond and freckle faced---get the picture--I asked the coach if he realized that the young man he was talking to me about was Latino----silence on the other end of the line-- I told him I am not sending the young man out there where he will be totally out of place-- he was the only person in his household who spoke english ---is this PC I doubt it---BUT---the kid could have gone there and been totally lost---we care about our kids and their futures--

Does that answer your concerns?

infielddad


Do you realize that if you stand at the Canadian border and look south your are no longer on the left out coast but your governor stills speaks funny and used steroids

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
infielddad


Do you realize that if you stand at the Canadian border and look south your are no longer on the left out coast but your governor stills speaks funny and used steroids

For those of you watching at home, this post illustrates the point I made in another topic.

ESTONE

Sit back and enjoy and do not be too quick to judge

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Mendozaline

I answer their questions---their is no confidentiality involved ---he plays for our program --I want the kid to have the best shot he can have in the right place and have the coach fully aware of what type of person he is getting--all this PC garbage is not even in my picture--

Let me give you an example---I had a player a few years back who was Latino and I got a call from a college in the midwest about him-- their entire team was blond and freckle faced---get the picture--I asked the coach if he realized that the young man he was talking to me about was Latino----silence on the other end of the line-- I told him I am not sending the young man out there where he will be totally out of place-- he was the only person in his household who spoke english ---is this PC I doubt it---BUT---the kid could have gone there and been totally lost---we care about our kids and their futures--

Does that answer your concerns?

What right did you have to potentially adversely impact that young man's option that he had earned.
Didn't he deserve to discuss the situation with that college coach and make the decision if it was a "fit" or not.
For me it is hard to fathom someone saying that "he plays on our program...there is no confidentiality."
For me, that is an amazing post.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Mendozaline

I answer their questions---their is no confidentiality involved ---he plays for our program --I want the kid to have the best shot he can have in the right place and have the coach fully aware of what type of person he is getting--all this PC garbage is not even in my picture--

Let me give you an example---I had a player a few years back who was Latino and I got a call from a college in the midwest about him-- their entire team was blond and freckle faced---get the picture--I asked the coach if he realized that the young man he was talking to me about was Latino----silence on the other end of the line-- I told him I am not sending the young man out there where he will be totally out of place-- he was the only person in his household who spoke english ---is this PC I doubt it---BUT---the kid could have gone there and been totally lost---we care about our kids and their futures--

Does that answer your concerns?

Please also be sure to mention if the kid lacks proper table manners, personal hygeine, has a lisp, braces on his teeth, or a cow lick in his hair. I wouldn't want a kid to feel out of slightly place on a team full of white fashion models.

Such micro-management and the usurping of the recruiting process is irresponsible and probably illegal.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Let me give you an example---I had a player a few years back who was Latino and I got a call from a college in the midwest about him-- their entire team was blond and freckle faced---get the picture--I asked the coach if he realized that the young man he was talking to me about was Latino----silence on the other end of the line-- I told him I am not sending the young man out there where he will be totally out of place-- he was the only person in his household who spoke english ---is this PC I doubt it---BUT---the kid could have gone there and been totally lost---we care about our kids and their futures--

WOW! In my business, that is a lawsuit sure to happen. Plain and simple. To me that is an incredible story to share publicly.

One of the funniest, and at the same time saddest, things about the Archie Bunker character was that he never realized just how bigoted he was.

justbaseball

the boy went where he was at ease

WOW---my butt---I would rather be honest and up front than PHONY so as to be PC !!!!

Maybe someday a player and his parents will be able to make a sound decision without having their hands held. We can only hope.

While its true that college coaches are probably looking for insights into players makeup that are not readily apparent, I think high school and travel coaches must be careful.

Similar to when calling companies for a reference on an former employee...often, it is what is NOT said that is most interesting.

I am not suggesting that high school/travel coaches not be truthful....but college coaches should make the decision on a kid and not have the decision made for them. The reality though is that hs/travel coaches develop relationships with college coaches over the years and - like in business - the college coach depends upon the hs/travel coach that they know so well to tell them "you want this kid" or "stay away".

There is no question it is a very tricky situation.

Who are you to decide what was best for that young Latino?
I can just hear it now in the athletic department: cross off that kid from our list. Just learned he is a Latino.
I wonder if the silence on the phone by that coach was "astonishment" and a quick assessment of legal liability. Did the coach happen to end the call saying thanks TR for letting me know he was Latino?
As justbaseball said, people get sued, justifiably.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
One of the funniest, and at the same time saddest, things about the Archie Bunker character was that he never realized just how bigoted he was.

Very insightful CADad.

TR - Neither I nor anyone else will ever teach you anything. You appear to be set in your views. I lived in Blacksburg, Virginia when Va. Tech had their very first black basketball player. I would imagine that some folks thought he wouldn't be "at ease" in a small southern town surrounded by white folks. Lucky for all of us that he and his coach didn't hold that against him.

I imagine Jackie Robinson didn't feel at ease either early in his career. Lucky for us he overlooked that.

I suggest it is NOT your place to make decisions about where a certain kid will feel comfortable for him (most especially along the lines of race).

You will likely respond with something snippy as usual. I don't really care, you don't have a leg to stand on in this debate.

Infielddad

In fact the coach thanked me and said "you are right. I don't think it would work"

You know sometimes being upfront and BLUNT works

Wow, how revealing!

How insulting. This isn't honesty, this is distorted perception. You may say you were trying to "protect" the recruit, then you sit down with the recruit and discuss your concerns. Then it's up to him and his family to decide what's best. Where DOES a coach draw the line?

We had ONE latin player on the team, the fans, the team, the coaches, everyone just adored him. It didn't bother him in the least. We also had ONE black player, they loved him too. We also had one jewish player, they loved him too. Would you say those were not good fits in South Carolina?

TR, I think he meant it probably wouldn't work in the 1920's.

The Cajuns have 2 or 3 of everybody, I think, including a japanese trainer.

Don't you guys get the picture?? TR might not have any tact ...but he's ALWAYS right!!

C'mon man ... get over yourself.

TPM

Again you speak with no knowledge of the situation just as the others are doing--

What I did , WOW ,whether you like it or not worked


BTW dont you always speak of FIT

ESTONE

I am glad you know me so well---I have been known to be wrong mnay times

DAD04
Again you have no idea what I mean---I am not even sutre that you know what you mean

Well you might need to explain why you steer coaches away from players based on race. I'm not sure that is understood. Was that at the players request, or the coaches request?

If I'm a non-white player looking to maximize recruiting opportunities, why would I ever play for you?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

Again you speak with no knowledge of the situation just as the others are doing--

What I did , WOW ,whether you like it or not worked


BTW dont you always speak of FIT

ESTONE

I am glad you know me so well---I have been known to be wrong mnay times

DAD04
Again you have no idea what I mean---I am not even sutre that you know what you mean

I don't know you ... and unfortunately its getting to where I'm not sure I want to. All of your posts are either confrontational with everyone, as if they are wrong or misguided etc. etc. OR your post is very self righteous.

It would just be nice if you'd lighten the rhetoric a little.

All of the above is completely aside from the relatively asanine comments you've made above.

quote:

What I did , WOW ,whether you like it or not worked

It did NOT work! For that young man, you took away HIS ability to make a decision for himself. If your account is correct (?), then the coach was complicit in the overall act.

This is very sad. I am not surprised one single bit that it happened. But it is very, very disappointing nonetheless.

TR,
The fit is for the player and family to decide, NOT YOU. You created a negative perception in that coaches mind, don't try to defend what you did.

If you had concerns for the player you could have talked to him about it, then he could have decided what was best for him, not you.

You always tell us that you let your son decide, yet you took that outof teh players hands. Sad.

This is an unbelievably important but terribly sad thread.
If it is true this college coach stopped recruiting a young man based on learning of his race, it shows the impact that travel coaches and others might have.
It paints a distasteful picture that, without his knowledge, the race of any high school student athlete would be included in a discussion of his ability to attend a college and play baseball at that college, or more importantly, be used by a college coach and travel team coach to disqualify a potential student athlete.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
This is an unbelievably important but terribly sad thread.
If it is true this college coach stopped recruiting a young man based on learning of his race, it shows the impact that travel coaches and others might have.
It paints a distasteful picture that, without his knowledge, the race of any high school student athlete would be included in a discussion of his ability to attend a college and play baseball at that college, or more importantly, be used by a college coach and travel team coach to disqualify a potential student athlete.

There is definately power and responsiblity that goes with the coaching shorts. Most of the time coaches do the right thing, I think. Sometimes power is abused. I've seen it before first hand at the travel level.

Typical "left out coast" thinking---it had nothing to do with race---it had to do with proper fit---the kid would have been home before the first quarter break---

I am far from being a bigot, despite the posters thoughts---check out our roster every year and that roster is by invite

I have had Jewish players turn down offers from school,because there were notenough Jewish students there--- we are talking FIT once again

As a coach are we not supposed to look for the best situation for a player BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE ???

TPM

Again you speak out of place---do you know how much the player and his family conversed with me regarding this?---I THINK NOT !!!!!


Again you are way off base

quote:

As a coach are we not supposed to look for the best situation for a player BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE ???

Does the kid have any say in where he goes? TR, editorializing on behalf of a player and his family, based on YOUR experience is not part of your job, imo. You assume the player and his family don't have the skills to make an important decision, based on THEIR experiences, needs and desires.

If that was true how did they ever make the decision to play for your team? You are a coach, not a puppet master.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

I have had Jewish players turn down offers from school,because there were notenough Jewish students there--- we are talking FIT once again

As a coach are we not supposed to look for the best situation for a player BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE ???

You are not supposed to look for the right fit, they are. Possibly that might have been in the players best interest, but again that was for HIM to decide. Again telling that to the coach eliminated the players chance to make his own decision.

I am assuming those players made that decision on their own based on what was best for them, why wouldn't you give the "latin" player the same consideration?