On the verge of a decision.

How can anyone provide advice without knowing anything about the schools, your baseball and academic ability and your motivations and goals?

Hey 2017,

How good is the scholarship from the JUCO?  Do you need the money?  If you're thinking about D3s, I'm guessing you don't.

As people in here have said before, money means love, as well as a better chance to play in the spring.  D3s can't really do anything athletically to help you financially.  They can give academic aid.  Have either done this?

What are the pros and cons of the three schools?

Personally, my family is considering JUCO for my son due to a couple of reasons.  1) Financial help with school that is greater than that at other 4 year schools.  2) It will give him a chance to physically mature and improve his game in order to possibly see better opportunities down the road.  4 year schools will still be there later, and the total cost of school will be reduced.

Give us some more information.

All the best.

TE

TE, really appreciate the reply!

1. I have verbally recieved the max scholarship for the Juco. The max is only about 15% of tuition.

2. This Juco is the highest level of baseball in the state, and only about 1hr away from home. No on-campus housing though. So it would have to be apartment living. The D3's are about 5 hours away in a different state.

3. Both coaches of the D3 schools have said they could "pull some strings" in regards financially if needed.

4. Both D3's have housing and lunch rooms, but they have 1,800 and 800 students respectively. Not very big towns around the D3's.

5. The field on my higher ranked D3 is a very short field. (320/305 lines and 385 center). That's a plus for me (1B/3B). Compared to the Juco at (330 lines, 400 center).

6. All places have good fields and facilities/weight room. And all the coaches seem like good people.

Sorry for the rambling but tried to get good info out there.

Is your son going through this recruiting process now?

Thank you very much!

Just looked at your profile. I know which 2-year you're talking about...D3s, not so sure (although I have an idea--just dunno if you're talking Wisconsin or Iowa.) 

I'm going to be blunt. I don't think you're looking at this through the right lens (admittedly, I'm drawing this conclusion based on the factors you listed in your last post.) You need to go to a school that is right for you academically and socially. I don't see baseball being in your future after college, so what school would you go to if you couldn't play? 

I don't know what you do for fun, but I'm VERY familiar with the town where the 2-year is. Not much to do there for social life, but if you're more laid-back, it could be a good fit. It's more a school for non-traditional students, so take that as you will.

I'm thinking along the same lines as Matt13 based upon what you've posted.  I love college baseball and I think it provides a great 2 or 4 year opportunity for many young men to get an education and play baseball.  However, I'd be focused on year 3 or 5....your professional career (whatever path you choose) and paying off any financial obligations.   Look into your crystal ball and determine what is going to be most important in year 3 or 5 because baseball will most likely be in the rear view mirror.   Which ever school matches up best to accomplish your career goals is where I'd strongly consider. 

Good luck!

Respectfully disagree here.  There is no difference between English and Psych 101 at a JUCO verses Harvard and Yale.  The young man goes to the JUCO and does well academically, he'll set himself for admittance to some of the finest academic four-year institutions in the country while saving himself thousands and thousands of dollars in tuition.  The only thing that matters (on his resume) is where his final degree is from - not whether or not he attended a JUCO.  Moreover, he'll have the chance to get better at baseball in the meantime and possibly set himself up for a better four year baseball opportunity down the road than what is currently being offered. 

To the young man in question, you can always, always go back and "undo" a bad education decision although I admit - it will likely cost you a lot more money if that is the case.  I know that JUCO, however, is not a bad education decision. 

You cannot go back and undo a bad baseball decision.  Pick the best baseball option "now" while the window is still open to you and absolutely make sure you follow-up on your academics after your baseball career is behind you. 

2017_Grad posted:

TE, really appreciate the reply!

1. I have verbally recieved the max scholarship for the Juco. The max is only about 15% of tuition.

2. This Juco is the highest level of baseball in the state, and only about 1hr away from home. No on-campus housing though. So it would have to be apartment living. The D3's are about 5 hours away in a different state.

3. Both coaches of the D3 schools have said they could "pull some strings" in regards financially if needed.

4. Both D3's have housing and lunch rooms, but they have 1,800 and 800 students respectively. Not very big towns around the D3's.

5. The field on my higher ranked D3 is a very short field. (320/305 lines and 385 center). That's a plus for me (1B/3B). Compared to the Juco at (330 lines, 400 center).

6. All places have good fields and facilities/weight room. And all the coaches seem like good people.

Sorry for the rambling but tried to get good info out there.

Is your son going through this recruiting process now?

Thank you very much!

There are some salient pieces of advice in this thread already.   Do make sure that you try to make a decision based on things outside of baseball as much as possible.  But, hey.  If you go to the JUCO and things don't work out baseball wise, or you just can't stand it there, you can always move on to a four year school.  Like I say, they will be there two years down the road.  JUCO can be a place to try to prove yourself and leverage your way into a more preferable program for you.

Some people fall in love with a D3 campus, etc. and choose that route.   D3s can be kind of brutal.  a whole bunch of guys will show up for fall practice.  You too will essentially be a walk on.  The coach may still cut you.    But nothing quite beats campus life.   Have you fallen in love with campus life?   

I think that if you find a college where you feel as though you fit-in this is indicative of it being an intellectual and philosophical/theological match for you, and is a good sign of it's possibly being right for you.  That can sometimes be hard to judge, however, without spending time there in residence. 

Again though, sometimes you muddle through a couple of years at a place where you don't fit in, in order to get to a place where you do.

Since you haven't committed to either of the D3s, it sound like you may have aspirations of something bigger and better.  Am I wrong?   I don't think there's anything wrong with that.   

I'm going to edit my statement to take into consideration what Cabagedad said above.   JUCO can most certainly be leveraged into much greater things - academically and athletically.   Psych 101 is the same wherever you are.  It's about where and how you finish

If you want to try to leverage JUCO ball into something bigger, hey go ahead.   It's a calculated gamble that is not terribly risky.  As the Atlanta Rhythm Section once said, "Life is a gamble, all along.  The winners are losers who keep moving on."

As I stated before.  We are almost certainly going to go the JUCO route.  For financial reasons mostly.  But it will be a great chance to parlay the experience into bigger things down the road.

All the best,

TE

I'd look a bit more deeply into figuring out which school is a better social and academic fit.  Freshman are hard pressed to get playing time and unless you have social opportunities and classes/major opportunities which absorb you, putting all your eggs into the baseball basket is risky.  Commuter schools and residential schools have totally different atmospheres; commuter schools are tough for first year students who are not living at home.

(I would express my disagreement with the concept that courses are the same regardless of college; the book may be the same, but the teaching, environment, resources, tests, and depth are not the same across the board.  If it were true that it's all the same, companies would simply throw darts at a board in determining which colleges should be tapped for future employees.  A quick look at the rosters of companies which appear on campus and jobs they are seeking to fill during job season demonstrate the differences employers believe exist.)

Thanks everybody, I'll try and answer the questions from the recent posts.

So my thinking overall before this post (baseball wise) was 'if you commit to a D3, and if you hit the weight room hard and end up succeeding on the field, their is no real possibility of moving on.' You do the same at a Juco, and it's a much stronger possibility.

Academic wise - im fine GPA and ACT wise. But it is a plus for me to save money through the Juco, and have the baseball opportunity in place.

As for hopes of moving up levels, I think it's human nature to want to play at the highest level you can and succeed. And I feel confident if I go the Juco route, I would be able to make D1 or D2. Back in June I faced pitchers in a showcase who sat 86-88. I seen the ball well against them and I hit them well. One of the players I faced then recently committed to a D1.

Socially, I don't NEED the 'party' lifestyle, but in college I imagine it's going to happen. It would be more enjoyable if it were around college students. 

The Juco though has more unknowns: Apartments, food, more on your own type of atmosphere.

Thank you to everyone who has commented. This site is great as always.

Good luck 2017; sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and a good grasp of your situation so I'm sure you'll make a good choice and make the most of it.

Just want to make a couple of points:

1 - It was pointed out that D3 baseball can be brutal.  It can, but that's equally true at many Jucos. Our local JC cuts  or redshirts 2/3 of the players who come out, and most of these are legit guys.  And of course most of the guys who make the team do not become starters.  So there are no guarantees anywhere in that regard.  But you know how  you match up better than we do.

2 - There's some disagreement above about the value of Juco education.  Leaving aside baseball for the moment, as well as the pleasures of being at a 4-year school for 4 years,  I agree with Cleveland Dad in that it doesn't matter where you do your freshman and sophomore  years if you transfer to a good 4-year school afterwards. But that's a really big if.  Using the example of our local JC again, every year hundreds of students transfer to the University of California system, the Cal State system, and even schools like Stanford and Harvard. And like CD says, once they finish at UCLA, Cal, etc. it doesn't matter very much where they started.  But getting back to that big if, many thousands more JC students never complete a 4 year degree.  No doubt the situation is similar where you are.

So a  JC can be a great choice if you're a highly motivated and disciplined student, or if you're looking for a 2 year certificate program, or even if you don't know what you want. But if you want a much higher likelihood of finishing a 4-year degree, you're better off going to a 4 year school to begin with.

Another thing to think about...again, this is me being familiar with the town (I used to work there, and my ex went to the school you're considering in between 4-years,) the availability of rentals on a college-student budget are slim, and nothing is within walking distance. It may be worth considering biting the bullet and driving the hour each way each day, unless you've already happened to find something that works (like someone subletting or a room for rent from a homeowner.)

I can't stop laughing at the thought that English and Psych 101 aren't any different at a JUCO than at an elite academic school!  

Read Frank Bruni's book or his columns.

JCG, don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I don't need to read his opinion.  I'm living it now with my two college kids.  

The 100 level academics may be the same regardless of the college. But the competition in the classroom is absolutely not the same due to the students.

I would respectfully ask you to reread my post above. You graduated from UCLA, correct? Is there any difference to employers between a 4 year UCLA grad and a student who graduated magna cum laude from UCLA after transfer from SMJC? My wife, who is among many who went that route, would say there is not.

There is a difference.  Approximately $70k - $120k.  By that I mean, added cost of tuition to attend UCLA for two extra years as a resident or non-resident.  

JCG posted:

I would respectfully ask you to reread my post above. You graduated from UCLA, correct? Is there any difference to employers between a 4 year UCLA grad and a student who graduated magna cum laude from UCLA after transfer from SMJC? My wife, who is among many who went that route, would say there is not.

There are two kinds of students at SMJC. Those who will get to UCLA and those who won't. Some of those who won't are because they weren't pushed in the classroom. Or they weren't challenged by lack of competition. My daughter took two courses in the summer at the local JC. She said the difference in the brainpower in the room between her college and the JuCo was staggering.

Teaching Elder posted:

There is a difference.  Approximately $70k - $120k.  By that I mean, added cost of tuition to attend UCLA for two extra years as a resident or non-resident.  

It depends on the family's finances whether the cost is relevant. Even adjusting for the time value of money it wasn't anywhere near that expensive when I attended.

http://www.aim.ucla.edu/profiles/cds2.aspx#cdsG

google _______________ University Common Data Set

I have started a new thread to discuss academic differences. 

Good luck, 2017_Grad!  I wish you well. 

Don't forget the motivation of baseball.  My brother would have never started or finished his 4 year degree without baseball...  Baseball that stared and finished at a JC.  

real green posted:

Don't forget the motivation of baseball.  My brother would have never started or finished his 4 year degree without baseball...  Baseball that stared and finished at a JC.  

bolded is very good point, I wouldn't have made it out of HS without baseball.

I posted something similar on another thread but I believe that I can offer some insights that may be relevant here. I have 2 sons playing baseball, 1 at an academic D3 in the Midwest and another at our local So Cal Juco.  One son wanted to go to an academic school but still play baseball and D3 fit the bill. My other son turned down 2 NAIA schools with baseball scholarships because he wanted to try to get his grades up and possibly to transfer to a more academic and/or d1/d2 school that what he could have done straight out of HS. Academic schools were off the board for him. He is also young for his age so the Juco would also give him a chance to mature for a year. 

Have you looked at the presentage of sophomores from the Juco that go on and transfer and to where? Many Juco ball players still do not transfer to  D1 or even D2. What are the chances of starting at the JUCO? Some can be very competitive.  If you are not a 2 year starter the chances of going to D1 or D2 drop. 

In regards to school and putting baseball aside, the cost going the JUCO route is better for the vast majority of families, however if you come from a low income family and especially if you have descent grades such as B's or better, many 4 years have institutional aid and grants to supplement the state and Federal aid offered so the cost of a 4 year school may not be out of reach at all and in some cases be next to 0

If financing the school is not going to be problem, fill out the fafca and css forms and apply EA or RD to the d 3 schools. If you get in compare what they give in aid.  We found that the private schools' aid can vary by as much as 10-20 K.  The merit scholar scholarship from my son's academic D3  made the cost competitive to the local cal university system. 

Finally talk it over with your parents and coaches, those adults who know you best and weigh the pros and cons. 

Good luck