Does anyone have any info about the PG Top Prospect Games at Maryland in late Sept? Son got an invite. Just another showcase (no offense to PG showcases intended), or something more significant?
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I think the former - we got the invite as well. Also one for a series at Texas A&M. I imagine these are useful if you want to go to Maryland or A&M, but I'm not as sure of the value beyond that.
I think everyone got that invite, beginning to sound a little like Oprah now: You’re a top prospect, you’re a top prospect, you’re a top prospect.! It doesn’t mean anything, just another showcase folks.
But-but-but-- the invite says my son is a "top prospect" and that "only highly ranked players from Perfect Game are invited to this event."
Not to pick on PG, because my son or I regularly get baseball-related offers much like this. But it would be nice if there were less hot air in these marketing pitches. Thank goodness for this board, which has helped me be (at least slightly) realistic.
Everyone does not get those invites, I can confirm that. Not 100% sure of the criteria, but seems like you have to have a Top1000 ranking or better to get one. That's still a ton of kids I'm sure. I checked out that Maryland event roster last year and it looked like almost everyone who went eventually committed. I know the PG showcases at Lakepoint have a ton of kids who will never play college ball, so it does seem like the MD event is more geared to the players who have a better shot of playing in college.
SSBuckeye posted:Everyone does not get those invites, I can confirm that. Not 100% sure of the criteria, but seems like you have to have a Top1000 ranking or better to get one. That's still a ton of kids I'm sure. I checked out that Maryland event roster last year and it looked like almost everyone who went eventually committed. I know the PG showcases at Lakepoint have a ton of kids who will never play college ball, so it does seem like the MD event is more geared to the players who have a better shot of playing in college.
I get why they don't do it, but wouldn't it be nice if showcase invites actually said: "We are inviting the top 1,000 prospects in the classes of 2019-2021" or "We are blast emailing every single address we can find that might belong to a HS baseball player"? Alternatively, post a list of college coaches who have committed to attend (as some showcases do)? Getting verified measurables posted online at a PBR, PG or other event is valuable for sure. But I wish we "consumers" could make more informed choices about what we get when we pay to attend a given event.
Last year was the first year of Top Prospect games and there was only one event. We went and I can say there were a lot of coaches there and a lot of talented kids (definitely more than a normal showcase). This year there are at least 4-5 in different states so I think it’s much more diluted. I think the PG events that are exclusive are the National and Jr National and the Underclass and All American games.
I agree--there are so many PG events that son gets invited to, it is hard to know which ones make sense for him (exclusive/honor to be invited) vs. everyone who has ever played in little league gets invited. You can only travel (and spend the money) on so many events a year. I have become a bit cynical in this process and take every invite that tries to make it sound like my son is special as just a marketing ploy. Some will say "you are pre-approved for this event" which seems to indicate there was some selection process used, but I just assume anyone who is willing to write a check is "pre-approved."
BaseballHS--What makes the National/Jr National/Underclass/All American games exclusive? He did get an invite to the National Underclass Showcases (in various locations--FL, TX and AZ) this winter. Should we be taking that one more seriously?
The Jr. National and National events are definitely a more selective invitation. When we went this summer, I think there were 2 sessions and each had about 250 kids. Of those kids 2020 and 2021, at least half were committed to top teams already. I told my son while we were there that a lot of those kids would end up in the majors. First pitcher we faced was a 6'4 225lb lefty throwing 94mph. Masyn Winn was on his team and threw 98 across the infield. My son threw 89mph at the event and was in the 65th percentile. The kids there were all good. There were tons of coaches, everywhere as it was all played at Lake Pointe and all on one side. 2 days, 3 games. The Underclass All American was only about 150 kids for 2020 and 2021 combined. 8 teams of 20, only 2-3 uncommitted kids on each team. My son threw 90 and was in the 73rd percentile for the event and was in the 62nd percentile with an 89mph exit velo. The All American games (rising seniors) are only 50ish kids and there is a draft on tv for the two teams. It is played in San Diego at Petco park. The game is televised an it is a big deal. A lot of the kids that play in that event are drafted. They get custom gloves, shoes, etc. There were big lines to get in the stadium to watch the event. Lots of pro scouts attend. The Underclass All Americans get shirts, pants, shorts, a backpack and tickets to the big boy event.
I tend to think it is easier to stand out at some of the smaller PG events and get your name out there with good measurables. I know my son got invited to the more exclusive ones because he did well at the local one and was able to make the top velo and exit velo lists there. (It's harder to do at the big ones). The National Underclass showcases seem to be just bigger versions of the normal showcases so I would probably go to a showcase that is close and try to stand out there. Just my two cents.
Ok, got it. It's the games that are the more exclusive events over the showcases. Makes sense. We do have a local PG showcase coming up this month. At $650 for the event, we have been putting off a decision because we are not sure how helpful having a PG ranking/scouting report is. We've been focusing our efforts and our money on events where college scouts will be present (either showcases, games or camps).
What year is your son?
2020 
Ha! Guess your screen name says it all I would try PBR, they are cheaper to get measurables and depending on the state, can be very beneficial in recruiting.
No PBR events in the NW, but he did a showcase this summer run by a NW organization and has measurables from that. They post all the stats/videos on their website so you can use it as a recruiting tool, plus college coaches attended the event. Good bang for the buck.
I'm curious, though, how valuable a PG ranking/scouting report is (assuming you get a decent one)? Aside from that, I guess one advantage of doing a PG showcase is that then you are in the pool of players that can get invited to the exclusive PG game events you mentioned.
I think the rankings are good if you can use them or reference them in emails to get a coaches attention. Have you looked to see where your son might fall in your state and nationally?
And yes you have to have attended an event (showcase) to get an invite.
If your goal is exposure, WWBA and similar events are far better than any showcase PG puts on with the exception of the Jr National and National Showcase. I attended the PG All American Classic, and the game had a ton of little kids in attendance. Don’t get me wrong, there were college coaches and pro scouts there looking at “their guys” but PG pushed a lot of tickets out to local youth leagues to put butts in the seats to make it look well attended. There were maybe 2,000 people there, a vast majority under the age of 18.
Remember, if you include the guys ranked 1-500, then top 500, then top 1,000 your really looking at about 3,000 players. That’s a pretty big email list. If my player is on that list and is already committed, and realistically doesn’t have a shot at being drafted out of HS, why go?
You aren’t getting invited to the PG All American unless you are top 150 and most are draft possibilities. They are ALL committed to great schools. It’s not about college commitment at that point.
baseballhs posted:You aren’t getting invited to the PG All American unless you are top 150 and most are draft possibilities. They are ALL committed to great schools. It’s not about college commitment at that point.
Edit: I know you are going to say that it’s about improving draft stock, but let’s be realistic. This event affects about 1/10th of 1% of players. If you are in that group, you likely already know it. And I’ve seen more players go to that event and look bad that who go and impress.
So what isn’t it about then? Ego? If the event is free and it’s about ego, go for it. You won’t catch me spending a penny sending my son to an event for his (or my) ego.
GaryMe posted:baseballhs posted:You aren’t getting invited to the PG All American unless you are top 150 and most are draft possibilities. They are ALL committed to great schools. It’s not about college commitment at that point.
So what isn’t it about then? Ego? If the event is free and it’s about ego, go for it. You won’t catch me spending a penny sending my son to an event for his (or my) ego.
The players that go to the PG All American Game are showcasing themselves for the draft. It has nothing to do with ego. It also has nothing to do with attendance of fans at the game. It is one of the most highly scouted events for the MLB draft.
Draft exposure and it’s a big honor. If my son was ever fortunate enough to be invited, he would be there no doubt. You would do your son a disservice by not attending. I sat on the third row in the area next to the dugout. I assure you there were pro scouts everywhere.
After your edit....who looked bad st the event? I went to the HR derby too and left even more impressed. Not sure what your standards are but those boys were all top talent.
baseballhs posted:I think the rankings are good if you can use them or reference them in emails to get a coaches attention. Have you looked to see where your son might fall in your state and nationally?
And yes you have to have attended an event (showcase) to get an invite.
In terms of having looked at where son might fall in our state/nationally, do you simply mean by comparing his measurables against those of ranked players, or is there a better way to do that?
Yes, that’s what I meant. That and players committed at different levels.
baseballhs posted:Draft exposure and it’s a big honor. If my son was ever fortunate enough to be invited, he would be there no doubt. You would do your son a disservice by not attending. I sat on the third row in the area next to the dugout. I assure you there were pro scouts everywhere.
You were close to me, then. All I am saying is of course you go to that event, and the Underclass All American games. But the rest of the showcases with the exception of the Jr National and National showcases are used by PG as a "feeder" system to those events. If only 50 guys get to the AAC and 150 to the Underclass AAC, that's some pretty rarified air and for MOST players it isn't a rabbit hole worth chasing (for most players). The Top Prospect Showcase which was mentioned in the beginning of this thread, is not an elite event and if you think being one of 3K kids invited to an event makes you a top prospect I would argue the words "top prospect" just got watered down. And yes, this includes my kid.
baseballhs posted:After your edit....who looked bad st the event? I went to the HR derby too and left even more impressed. Not sure what your standards are but those boys were all top talent.
Not going to say names here, but there were a few players on that field that clearly didn't belong there based on what I saw, and I go regularly to that event.
I will say this, there was at least one pitcher I see regularly who looked the best I have ever seen him on the mound at the AAC, one who has never looked that good. Another I see regularly underperformed in my eyes. But I have the advantage of having seen these players on a regular basis to make that judgment.
While this thread is live: For a P, is there any added value to attending a PG showcase in addition to PG tournaments? My son will pitch in a couple of WWBA events this year--which means his velo and some other stats will be posted to his PG profile. If he attends a showcase, he gets a PG grade -- is there any other benefit? (I don't really want to open the "how much is a PG grade worth" can of worms again.)
Chico Escuela posted:While this thread is live: For a P, is there any added value to attending a PG showcase in addition to PG tournaments? My son will pitch in a couple of WWBA events this year--which means his velo and some other stats will be posted to his PG profile. If he attends a showcase, he gets a PG grade -- is there any other benefit? (I don't really want to open the "how much is a PG grade worth" can of worms again.)
It’s hard to know what has worked and what hasn’t. My son went to two PG showcases: one before freshman year and one before sophomore year. Results from those got him invited to the Junior national and the underclass all American. The Junior national provided exposure. One thing you get from the showcases that you don’t really get at the WWBA is a write up (unless you get a scout blog write up). If you don’t have top velo but do you have a great movement it would be noted on your profile. They also do you uncommitted spotlights on Twitter. Again who knows what is helping and what isn’t . We tried to do a variety of things and hoped it would all come together.
I defer to someone who is pro-PG, I have worn my con-PG argument out. My take is this: if you think that by going to a PG showcase it's going to give your recruiting a boost, go for it. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't. I'm not talking about the top 1% of players. I am talking about the guys who aren't in that group. If your targeted schools are going to be in attendance, go for it, money well spent. More likely than not they will not be there.
I haven't shared this before I don't think, but my son's recruiting included 1 PG showcase. Don't think I am anti-PG because of that event. I'm not, he did well, got a good grade, made top prospect list/team, etc. It's just that it had ZERO impact on my son's recruiting. That's why I say spend your money on events where you are going to be guaranteed he is going to be seen by your target schools. That may be headfirst, showball, or the college's camps. Take tons of video. TONS! Email every school your kid is interested in and can reasonably expect them to be interested in him. Then email 100 more that fit the same criteria except that they aren't schools you are targeting. Is your kid a pitcher or better yet a LHP? You just got a golden ticket to a better than average shot of playing at the next level over a position player.
GaryMe posted:I defer to someone who is pro-PG, I have worn my con-PG argument out. My take is this: if you think that by going to a PG showcase it's going to give your recruiting a boost, go for it. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't. I'm not talking about the top 1% of players. I am talking about the guys who aren't in that group. If your targeted schools are going to be in attendance, go for it, money well spent. More likely than not they will not be there.
I haven't shared this before I don't think, but my son's recruiting included 1 PG showcase. Don't think I am anti-PG because of that event. I'm not, he did well, got a good grade, made top prospect list/team, etc. It's just that it had ZERO impact on my son's recruiting. That's why I say spend your money on events where you are going to be guaranteed he is going to be seen by your target schools. That may be headfirst, showball, or the college's camps. Take tons of video. TONS! Email every school your kid is interested in and can reasonably expect them to be interested in him. Then email 100 more that fit the same criteria except that they aren't schools you are targeting. Is your kid a pitcher or better yet a LHP? You just got a golden ticket to a better than average shot of playing at the next level over a position player.
I guess my question is, how do you know it hasn’t worked? Does your son reference his profile when he emails Coaches? Do you know if Coaches have looked him up on perfect game? I don’t think it gets you recruited but I think it legitimizes who you are as a player when you have verified stats. If you’ve repeated them a few times and been a top prospect multiple times, I don’t see how that hurts you when coaches do research. Maybe it doesn’t help, and I certainly don’t think it’s the only way. It’s one tool. Most people have to utilize multiple tools during the recruiting process.
Chico Escuela posted:While this thread is live: For a P, is there any added value to attending a PG showcase in addition to PG tournaments? My son will pitch in a couple of WWBA events this year--which means his velo and some other stats will be posted to his PG profile. If he attends a showcase, he gets a PG grade -- is there any other benefit? (I don't really want to open the "how much is a PG grade worth" can of worms again.)
IMHO, as a pitcher what you really need is the verified velo. You can get that at a PG tournament or even if PBR shows up to your high school game. My son never attended a showcase but he did have verified velo.
Yes, we had that on his resume. Not one school told us "We're recruiting you because of that blistering 7.35 60-yd dash you ran back in 2016."
You can give PG your $$$, not gonna try to talk you out of it if you feel that works for you, but my mantra stays the same: The same number of colleges were looking for the same number of guys before all the showcase organization came reaching into our wallets, and had no trouble finding them. The only thing that has changed is these organizations are profiting off of the recruiting process.
Just to put it in perspective, BaseballHS, in the 3 years I have been engaged with my son in recruiting exposure for high school, there has not been a single day that he has not received an e-mail for a showcase, camp, etc. Not one day.
And yes, my son is committed to a D1
We get them everyday too. I think everyone has to utilize different tools based on their circumstances. We don't play for a power summer team so we utilized showcases (PB and PBR) and email. I think they worked for us. I think it is probably a little bit of a different recipe for everyone.
agree
GaryMe posted:
You can give PG your $$$, not gonna try to talk you out of it if you feel that works for you, but my mantra stays the same: The same number of colleges were looking for the same number of guys before all the showcase organization came reaching into our wallets, and had no trouble finding them. The only thing that has changed is these organizations are profiting off of the recruiting process.
That is where I will respectfully disagree with you. Before Perfect Game, before PBR, and before Travel Ball became so widespread, in many (most?) parts of the country, prospective recruits' hands were entirely tied by the Legion Ball & High School coaches, who often played tons of mind games and politics with those athletes.
Didn't kiss the behind of the High School/Legion coach? Too bad, you were out of luck. Maybe you were the second best Catcher in your state but the best Catcher happened to play for your high school. Also out of luck. Or maybe you just were unfortunate enough to play for coaches who didn't teach the game, or didn't develop players or didn't help with recruiting. Again, out of luck!
Heck, here in Wisconsin, there is one D1 team in our entire state, and it is a mid major. Before the era of Travel Ball & Perfect Game, it was exceedingly rare for a Wisconsin kid to play D1 or get drafted. Now there are dozens of WI kids each year playing D1 and several in every draft. Kids have any opportunity to be "free agents", they can market themselves at showcases, they can play for various levels of travel teams, they can get seen. They are independent of the inside politics of their small pond. That is a tremendously good thing.
Now I can certainly understand the merits of arguments either way on PBR vs Perfect Game, or Showcases vs Camps vs Tournaments, but things were most decidely not even close to better back in the old days, not around here anyways.
A lot has changed. Players can create their own opportunities now.
3and2Fastball posted:GaryMe posted:
You can give PG your $$$, not gonna try to talk you out of it if you feel that works for you, but my mantra stays the same: The same number of colleges were looking for the same number of guys before all the showcase organization came reaching into our wallets, and had no trouble finding them. The only thing that has changed is these organizations are profiting off of the recruiting process.
That is where I will respectfully disagree with you. Before Perfect Game, before PBR, and before Travel Ball became so widespread, in many (most?) parts of the country, prospective recruits' hands were entirely tied by the Legion Ball & High School coaches, who often played tons of mind games and politics with those athletes.
Didn't kiss the behind of the High School/Legion coach? Too bad, you were out of luck. Maybe you were the second best Catcher in your state but the best Catcher happened to play for your high school. Also out of luck. Or maybe you just were unfortunate enough to play for coaches who didn't teach the game, or didn't develop players or didn't help with recruiting. Again, out of luck!
Heck, here in Wisconsin, there is one D1 team in our entire state, and it is a mid major. Before the era of Travel Ball & Perfect Game, it was exceedingly rare for a Wisconsin kid to play D1 or get drafted. Now there are dozens of WI kids each year playing D1 and several in every draft. Kids have any opportunity to be "free agents", they can market themselves at showcases, they can play for various levels of travel teams, they can get seen. They are independent of the inside politics of their small pond. That is a tremendously good thing.
Now I can certainly understand the merits of arguments either way on PBR vs Perfect Game, or Showcases vs Camps vs Tournaments, but things were most decidely not even close to better back in the old days, not around here anyways.
A lot has changed. Players can create their own opportunities now.
3and2,
I think if pre-PG/PBR a player had the chops to play college baseball (in their opinion) but wasn't getting any love from local coaches, they probably needed to do then the same thing they do today - cast a wider net, move to a different club that is going to help the recruiting process. I would also counter-argue that the proliferation of rust-belt players is as much a product of the information age as it is PG and PBR. Back when Johnny drove a 1976 Ford Granada, you either had to be connected to a coach who had connections or you were toast I guess. I would say the same is true today to a degree, however players as you stated are "free agents" and can market their skills over a much broader geographic area.
PBR and PG do provide a service, and that is that they aggregate a large number of college coaches and pro scouts to their higher level tournaments. The showcase aspect of it, to me, is of marginal effect. Hell, if it's just about being able to see verified metrics, I need to start a business going around the country clocking 60's and gunning kids off the mound for far less $$$, because who cares if the kid can hit the broad side of a barn, if he throws 90+ he's on the radar of schools, right?
And I would also say with the regional nature of recruiting we currently see, what has really changed?
GaryMe posted:baseballhs posted:Draft exposure and it’s a big honor. If my son was ever fortunate enough to be invited, he would be there no doubt. You would do your son a disservice by not attending. I sat on the third row in the area next to the dugout. I assure you there were pro scouts everywhere.
You were close to me, then. All I am saying is of course you go to that event, and the Underclass All American games. But the rest of the showcases with the exception of the Jr National and National showcases are used by PG as a "feeder" system to those events. If only 50 guys get to the AAC and 150 to the Underclass AAC, that's some pretty rarified air and for MOST players it isn't a rabbit hole worth chasing (for most players). The Top Prospect Showcase which was mentioned in the beginning of this thread, is not an elite event and if you think being one of 3K kids invited to an event makes you a top prospect I would argue the words "top prospect" just got watered down. And yes, this includes my kid.
My son got an invite to the nat'l underclass showcase - while we have no illusions about making the 'game' your feedback is helpful re 'feeding' into the main event. He feels like he didn't show all that well earlier this year and wants another crack. Is there any sort of scouting presence at the showcases or is it just PG evaluation? Thanks,
The Jr. National and National Showcases at Lakepointe (last year they were early June) have tons of colleges coaches. The All American Games were more pro scouts. At the Underclass All American Games there were a few coaches, but most California area coaches.
We never did Showcase with PG, did with PBR. PBR is required to get to the Futures Game which is one of the most recruited events in Eastern US even over WWBA. No more than 2 adjoining fields at any given time and almost every Major D1 east of Mississippi there.
I think not doing Showcase hurt mine in PG ranking if that matters and maybe invites to the big events. We spent our money on tournaments because I knew coaches would be at Lakepointe. He has played in 29 PG tournaments so far and has at least 3 to go.
Again, one of those decisions you will have to make. PBR for sophomore and down is required especially if you want to be seen by Major D1's in the East. I never would have guessed it until I saw it twice myself.
I agree that the Futures is by far the best thing we have done in terms of exposure, second is the Jr. National.
PitchingFan posted:We never did Showcase with PG, did with PBR. PBR is required to get to the Futures Game which is one of the most recruited events in Eastern US even over WWBA. No more than 2 adjoining fields at any given time and almost every Major D1 east of Mississippi there.
I think not doing Showcase hurt mine in PG ranking if that matters and maybe invites to the big events. We spent our money on tournaments because I knew coaches would be at Lakepointe. He has played in 29 PG tournaments so far and has at least 3 to go.
Again, one of those decisions you will have to make. PBR for sophomore and down is required especially if you want to be seen by Major D1's in the East. I never would have guessed it until I saw it twice myself.
Thanks for that. Wasn't aware it was must do for the geography you suggest. Will look into it.