what are the best workouts or ways to improve core strength, stamina, and velocity?
should hips and shoulders be rotating at the same time, or hips before shoulders. if you know the answer include a video link to show.
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quote:Originally posted by shppirate09:
should hips and shoulders be rotating at the same time, or hips before shoulders. if you know the answer include a video link to show.
Go to pitchingclips.com for all the video you want.
quote:Originally posted by shppirate09:
should hips and shoulders be rotating at the same time, or hips before shoulders. if you know the answer include a video link to show.
In a high-level throw, the hips rotate before the shoulders. Hips rotating with the shoulders (or shoulders first) is the mark of a low-level throw.
Here's high-speed film of Jeff Weaver. Watch his hips open first as his GS foot plants.
You can see this in most clips by opening it up with QuickTime and going through it frame by frame with the arrow keys.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CHRIS
The other thread shows that you know squat other than you can read, look at pictures and then post them and offer your unqualified opinion regarding what you "think"---please stop offering advice on a topic you have shown you are quite unknowing about
Have you found a REAL COACH for your son yet? I hope so
1. Nothing in Chris's "last" post is wrong.
2. You posting just to attack and contribute zero is weak.
3. Telling his son to get a real coach is so bush. My Dad screwed me up, Im going to screw up my son, and hopefully he will screw up his....Just like Im sure you screwed up yours. This is every parents right.
I have to agree. The personal attacks are getting old. I know I don't have to read them but when I click on a link because I want to find out more about the topic and then read this ****, it's annoying. I personally could care less about what you think of Chris. Bring it up with him privately.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CHRIS
The other thread shows that you know squat other than you can read, look at pictures and then post them and offer your unqualified opinion regarding what you "think"---please stop offering advice on a topic you have shown you are quite unknowing about
Have you found a REAL COACH for your son yet? I hope so
As a great man once said, "There you go again."
CHRIS
At least I know what my limitations are regarding ptiching---that is why I have pitching coaches--But I know when I see a cyberspace cowboy who knows squat and is apt to lead people in the wrong direction
And at least it was a great man who said " There you go again"---by the way who was the great man and where did you READ THAT ???
At least I know what my limitations are regarding ptiching---that is why I have pitching coaches--But I know when I see a cyberspace cowboy who knows squat and is apt to lead people in the wrong direction
And at least it was a great man who said " There you go again"---by the way who was the great man and where did you READ THAT ???
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CHRIS
At least I know what my limitations are regarding ptiching---that is why I have pitching coaches--But I know when I see a cyberspace cowboy who knows squat and is apt to lead people in the wrong direction
And at least it was a great man who said " There you go again"---by the way who was the great man and where did you READ THAT ???
Why don't you just PM me with your personal attacks rather than filling up the boards with your garbage?
what about workouts that increase velocity? any books or programs that would help me improve myself before trying out for a varsity baseball team
quote:Originally posted by shppirate09:
what about workouts that increase velocity? any books or programs that would help me improve myself before trying out for a varsity baseball team
In terms of strength, focus on exercises that work the muscles that rotate the torso. That includes things like Pilates.
You don't need to bench press heavy weight, and that can be bad for your shoulder. Instead, Google "Throwers Ten".
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Chris
If I did that nobody would know that people, such as I , think you are a sham !!!
Whatever...
This kind of back and forth is one of the reasons I have been posting less lately. Back to your corners, boys! Marquess of Queensbury Rules! (Gloves On, no cheap shots.)
I mean, I get it already. thepain thinks he's an expert, and tr thinks he's a pain. The rest of us don't give a hoot! It's all gotten too negative and has hijacked this site so that, no matter what issue is brought up regarding pitching it turns into this BS.
TR, I respect you and your knowledge, but you're way too prone to attack. HSBBW is a forum for everyone, even stupid laymen like me, not just "qualified" people. Like Pain has said many times if you don't like what he says tell him WHY. (In the words of our forefather, "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.) These personal attacks only serve to erode your credibility, not the Pain's.
Pain, you set yourself up for this because of your elaborate, nearly medically-descriptive posts which may give people the false impression you know more than the rest of us. That's a bit arrogant. Just back off a little, add "IMHO" to your posts and quit subjecting us to so many camera shots and I believe we could have..
Peace in Our Time.
I mean, I get it already. thepain thinks he's an expert, and tr thinks he's a pain. The rest of us don't give a hoot! It's all gotten too negative and has hijacked this site so that, no matter what issue is brought up regarding pitching it turns into this BS.
TR, I respect you and your knowledge, but you're way too prone to attack. HSBBW is a forum for everyone, even stupid laymen like me, not just "qualified" people. Like Pain has said many times if you don't like what he says tell him WHY. (In the words of our forefather, "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.) These personal attacks only serve to erode your credibility, not the Pain's.
Pain, you set yourself up for this because of your elaborate, nearly medically-descriptive posts which may give people the false impression you know more than the rest of us. That's a bit arrogant. Just back off a little, add "IMHO" to your posts and quit subjecting us to so many camera shots and I believe we could have..
Peace in Our Time.
The endless name-calling and personal attack bs gets in the way of the purpose of this forum-to help dads like me help their kid get better and stay healthy. If you disagree, simply say so and give your OPINION AND POINT OF VIEW ON THE TOPIC, without all the personal cr*p.
Ever heard of the 1st Amendment?
The problem here is, TPainG claims to be a major league scout and advisor. From what I've seen here, no one who's been in the trenches wants to spoon feed TPainG information they've worked hard for to understand in detail. And while some admire TPainG's efforts, he makes statements that simply aren't true or are meaningless. Continued efforts by TPainG to show his prowess gets old and makes most here upset that he's allowed to continue to post....freedom of the press and all that, but at some point, a line has to be drawn.
What should we do????
What should we do????
It can be done with respect and dignity
rhe 1st amendment guarantees your freedom to speak, but it doesn't say anyone has to take you seriously.
What makes me crazy is that some people like Chameleon and TR never say WHY tpg's stuff is wrong. Give YOUR analysis and opinion-that way we have an alternative. When his is the only opinion/analysis from which to choose, then there is no choice. It's like having an election with only one candidate...
I am here seeking wise counsel from those who knme more than I, so if you want to help, please do so. The personal attacks help no one.
What makes me crazy is that some people like Chameleon and TR never say WHY tpg's stuff is wrong. Give YOUR analysis and opinion-that way we have an alternative. When his is the only opinion/analysis from which to choose, then there is no choice. It's like having an election with only one candidate...
I am here seeking wise counsel from those who knme more than I, so if you want to help, please do so. The personal attacks help no one.
Gentlemen
Read what I have posted and not read it in a PC fashion--- TPG is a sham and many will read what he says and believe him---anyone can read websites and books and then rec gurgitate like a "expert"
I know my limitations on pitching--that is why I have real live coaches who have played the game at high levels who work with our kids
To be honest I feel sorry his kid because the kid may end up like he did with a bad arm before he is a teen
Bum
I have no problem with being open to attack especially when I am trying protect kids and dads who want to learn the correct methods--- yes we can all have opinions but his isnt a opinion--it is a decision that he has all the answers and he has none
LHPDAD
Respect and dignity only come when it is earned not when you make claims that are totally foolish
Read what I have posted and not read it in a PC fashion--- TPG is a sham and many will read what he says and believe him---anyone can read websites and books and then rec gurgitate like a "expert"
I know my limitations on pitching--that is why I have real live coaches who have played the game at high levels who work with our kids
To be honest I feel sorry his kid because the kid may end up like he did with a bad arm before he is a teen
Bum
I have no problem with being open to attack especially when I am trying protect kids and dads who want to learn the correct methods--- yes we can all have opinions but his isnt a opinion--it is a decision that he has all the answers and he has none
LHPDAD
Respect and dignity only come when it is earned not when you make claims that are totally foolish
quote:Originally posted by cap_n:
What should we do????
You have a PM.
TR,
Thanks, TR. I understand your frustration and I agree that some if not most of what TPG says is rhetorical and nonsensical. Some poor dad's simple question "how do I add velocity?" suddenly turns into convuluted discussions about inverted M's or W's or whatnot. A simple question is never answered to any degree that a kid or dad could could understand much less turn into action because it is lost in undecipherable dialogue.
An approach we might consider is to ignore him or at least ask the moderator to ask him to minimize the repeated pitching graphics. That way, he can have his say without clogging the thread and snuffing out other voices.
I hope it doesn't come to that, however, so here's my pitch to TPG's good sense:
TPG, I wish you would consider for a moment that posting repeated graphics, duplicated arguments that have been talked about in other threads, and such just adds a lot of ill will here. If all you want is controversy to make a name for yourself, I guess it makes sense, but I'm hoping that's not the case. There are a lot of good people here--some of them important in the baseball world now and some who may exert a great deal of influence in the future--so if you want to build friendships that may further your cause or career, would you please consider how the rest of us feel? Perhaps just include a link so those who may be interested can open it up and read it and those who wish to skip it can move on. Just a thought. Thanks.
Thanks, TR. I understand your frustration and I agree that some if not most of what TPG says is rhetorical and nonsensical. Some poor dad's simple question "how do I add velocity?" suddenly turns into convuluted discussions about inverted M's or W's or whatnot. A simple question is never answered to any degree that a kid or dad could could understand much less turn into action because it is lost in undecipherable dialogue.
An approach we might consider is to ignore him or at least ask the moderator to ask him to minimize the repeated pitching graphics. That way, he can have his say without clogging the thread and snuffing out other voices.
I hope it doesn't come to that, however, so here's my pitch to TPG's good sense:
TPG, I wish you would consider for a moment that posting repeated graphics, duplicated arguments that have been talked about in other threads, and such just adds a lot of ill will here. If all you want is controversy to make a name for yourself, I guess it makes sense, but I'm hoping that's not the case. There are a lot of good people here--some of them important in the baseball world now and some who may exert a great deal of influence in the future--so if you want to build friendships that may further your cause or career, would you please consider how the rest of us feel? Perhaps just include a link so those who may be interested can open it up and read it and those who wish to skip it can move on. Just a thought. Thanks.
Guess I disagree with some of what Chris does here as well.
On the other hand I’ve found out (not through him) that he actually is associated with a Major League organization that has one of the most well known and respected pitching coaches in the game. This same Major League pitching coach worked closely with Doc Andrews to develop injury prevention techniques. This technology is about to be introduced nation wide.
I do think that some of what Chris writes is beyond his area of research. Guess I just don’t see how he is “hurting” anyone, least of all young kids. This is a message board and any father or young kid that would take anything said here as the gospel just isn’t wise enough. We should worry more about the coaches and parents who actually are hurting kids on a regular basis.
Once again, I don’t agree with Chris on many things. But realizing that no one knows everything regarding pitching/throwing, and never will, why not consider someone’s ideas. Then if you disagree… just say so. I actually think all the discussion is a good thing. It causes more discussion! Without people like Chris, others may not have added their thoughts at times. All those thoughts are important.
If we look at past threads, we can find there’s been disagreement with most anything or anybody. Even the fact that Iowa has the best sweet corn!
That said, I do think the W vs M thing is getting a bit redundant! But does anyone disagree with “everything” he has posted? Isn’t it obvious that he has a passion for this and that he has spent a lot of time researching the topic. It doesn’t appear to be profit motivated, near as I can tell. I’d hate to think what it would be like if we would all agree on everything or everybody all the time.
Sorry, but I feel what Chris has posted might bother some people, but I don’t think it is harming anyone.
On the other hand I’ve found out (not through him) that he actually is associated with a Major League organization that has one of the most well known and respected pitching coaches in the game. This same Major League pitching coach worked closely with Doc Andrews to develop injury prevention techniques. This technology is about to be introduced nation wide.
I do think that some of what Chris writes is beyond his area of research. Guess I just don’t see how he is “hurting” anyone, least of all young kids. This is a message board and any father or young kid that would take anything said here as the gospel just isn’t wise enough. We should worry more about the coaches and parents who actually are hurting kids on a regular basis.
Once again, I don’t agree with Chris on many things. But realizing that no one knows everything regarding pitching/throwing, and never will, why not consider someone’s ideas. Then if you disagree… just say so. I actually think all the discussion is a good thing. It causes more discussion! Without people like Chris, others may not have added their thoughts at times. All those thoughts are important.
If we look at past threads, we can find there’s been disagreement with most anything or anybody. Even the fact that Iowa has the best sweet corn!
That said, I do think the W vs M thing is getting a bit redundant! But does anyone disagree with “everything” he has posted? Isn’t it obvious that he has a passion for this and that he has spent a lot of time researching the topic. It doesn’t appear to be profit motivated, near as I can tell. I’d hate to think what it would be like if we would all agree on everything or everybody all the time.
Sorry, but I feel what Chris has posted might bother some people, but I don’t think it is harming anyone.
PGSTAFF
The problem is that even though people should not take what is posted on the internet as "gospel" there are way too many who do take it "as gospel".
The problem is that even though people should not take what is posted on the internet as "gospel" there are way too many who do take it "as gospel".
PG,
I couldn't agree more. In my limited time here I have never read of someone taking Chris' advice and then posting that their arm is destroyed because of it. Again what Chris posts is his opinion or fact. As a reader I can choose to value it or ignore it. But at least it's on topic. If I want to read or listen to these personal and IMO childish attacks, I'll go listen to my kids argue.
But as for the topic, IMO...Anyone who is serious about increasing velocity, considering a pitcher's workout or anything like that probably should do it under the watchful eye of a pitching coach. Again just another opinion.
I couldn't agree more. In my limited time here I have never read of someone taking Chris' advice and then posting that their arm is destroyed because of it. Again what Chris posts is his opinion or fact. As a reader I can choose to value it or ignore it. But at least it's on topic. If I want to read or listen to these personal and IMO childish attacks, I'll go listen to my kids argue.
But as for the topic, IMO...Anyone who is serious about increasing velocity, considering a pitcher's workout or anything like that probably should do it under the watchful eye of a pitching coach. Again just another opinion.
quote:Anyone who is serious about increasing velocity, considering a pitcher's workout or anything like that probably should do it under the watchful eye of a pitching coach. Again just another opinion.
Pat H,
BINGO! And you should add "GOOD" pitching coach who really cares! I think we would nearly
all share your opinion on that!
TR,
You have stated that pitching is not your strong point and that is why you have good pitching coaches. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything that Chris has ever said that could possibly harm a young pitcher. And hasn't he stated (earlier on) that these are just his opinions based on his research and it is still a work in progress. In fact, I thought he once said that he expects people to disagree.
There are some very knowledgable experienced people who contribute here. Some who disagree with Chris. Why would a young kid or parent just read what Chris has to say without considering what those who disagree with him have to say?
Whether agree or disagree I respect anyone who puts this kind of time and effort into something.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Chris
If I did that nobody would know that people, such as I , think you are a sham !!!
You're fooling yourself in thinking you are so important. Many of us don't care who you think is a sham.
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
This kind of back and forth is one of the reasons I have been posting less lately. Back to your corners, boys! Marquess of Queensbury Rules! (Gloves On, no cheap shots.)
I mean, I get it already. thepain thinks he's an expert, and tr thinks he's a pain. The rest of us don't give a hoot! It's all gotten too negative and has hijacked this site so that, no matter what issue is brought up regarding pitching it turns into this BS.
TR, I respect you and your knowledge, but you're way too prone to attack. HSBBW is a forum for everyone, even stupid laymen like me, not just "qualified" people. Like Pain has said many times if you don't like what he says tell him WHY. (In the words of our forefather, "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.) These personal attacks only serve to erode your credibility, not the Pain's.
Pain, you set yourself up for this because of your elaborate, nearly medically-descriptive posts which may give people the false impression you know more than the rest of us. That's a bit arrogant. Just back off a little, add "IMHO" to your posts and quit subjecting us to so many camera shots and I believe we could have..
Peace in Our Time.
Bum,
I agree with most of your comments but this:
"I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
and this:
"Just back off a little, add "IMHO" to your posts and quit subjecting us to so many camera shots"
are a contradiction.
quote:Originally posted by cap_n:
The problem here is, TPainG claims to be a major league scout and advisor. From what I've seen here, no one who's been in the trenches wants to spoon feed TPainG information they've worked hard for to understand in detail. And while some admire TPainG's efforts, he makes statements that simply aren't true or are meaningless. Continued efforts by TPainG to show his prowess gets old and makes most here upset that he's allowed to continue to post....freedom of the press and all that, but at some point, a line has to be drawn.
What should we do????
Do nothing. The day this site starts censoring is the day it becomes useless.
I could care less whether TPG claims he is a scout or not. I take the information he presents and I evaluate it for what it's worth. I don't accept it just because he may be a scout. Besides, I think the only time he has tooted the "I'm a scout" horn is when he was provoked.
quote:Originally posted by handyrandy:
rhe 1st amendment guarantees your freedom to speak, but it doesn't say anyone has to take you seriously.
What makes me crazy is that some people like Chameleon and TR never say WHY tpg's stuff is wrong. Give YOUR analysis and opinion-that way we have an alternative. When his is the only opinion/analysis from which to choose, then there is no choice. It's like having an election with only one candidate...
I am here seeking wise counsel from those who knme more than I, so if you want to help, please do so. The personal attacks help no one.
Bingo!
Those who shoot down TPG without offering their own info come across as doing nothing more than trying to demonstrate how much they know. Unfortunately, without any substance, the rest of us have no reason to believe them either.
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
There are a lot of good people here--some of them important in the baseball world now and some who may exert a great deal of influence in the future--
Are you implying TPG is not a good person? How do you justify that?
quote:so if you want to build friendships that may further your cause or career, would you please consider how the rest of us feel?
Please don't presume to think you can speak for everyone. I don't necessarily agree with everything TPG posts but I have no problem with him posting his thoughts and ideas as long as they are genuine and on-topic. If he posts something I disagree with, and I feel strongly enough about it, I'll post my own thoughts. It's no big deal.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
PGSTAFF
The problem is that even though people should not take what is posted on the internet as "gospel" there are way too many who do take it "as gospel".
This is just an unsubstantiated assumption.
My apologies to the original poster for continuing the hijack of this thread. 
quote:"I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
and this:
"Just back off a little, add "IMHO" to your posts and quit subjecting us to so many camera shots"
are a contradiction.
Wrong. The paragraph you quote began with "I wish you would consider.." This is a request for civility, not a demand which intends to silence his voice. Just because I would defend to the death your right of First Ammendment doesn't mean I won't call you a knucklehead when you speak in tongues. I've got my opinion, too.
quote:Originally posted by Roger Tomas:quote:Originally posted by Bum:
There are a lot of good people here--some of them important in the baseball world now and some who may exert a great deal of influence in the future--
Are you implying TPG is not a good person? How do you justify that?quote:so if you want to build friendships that may further your cause or career, would you please consider how the rest of us feel?
Please don't presume to think you can speak for everyone. I don't necessarily agree with everything TPG posts but I have no problem with him posting his thoughts and ideas as long as they are genuine and on-topic. If he posts something I disagree with, and I feel strongly enough about it, I'll post my own thoughts. It's no big deal.
You are way off-base, Roger. I made no such implication that the TPG was not a good person. In fact, if you read my post I fairly well defended giving him his voice. Second, is asking him to "consider how the rest of us feel" speaking for everyone? I hope so. I think no matter the issue, right or wrong, we should consider how others feel. Otherwise, it is not discourse it is mere spouting. You are making up issues that don't exist.
Right, wrong or indifferent, TPainG answered the question. Please continue on this topic.
Thanks,
Thanks,
i have no problem with what tpg says because hes actually said something that has to do with pitching! ever since hes written his two cents there have been numerous comments on what a sham he is, nothing thats relevant to what i was seeking. i understand you may not like or agree with what he has to say, completely understandable, but could you say what will help with getting an idea of what to do?
Increased velocity will come through improving your mechanics, getting stronger and growing. You have no control over the latter.
Getting stronger will be best accomplished by a baseball oriented strength training program. Perhaps the best way to do this would be to find a good strength training facility that has a program designed around baseball. Once you have trained there for a while, you can probably then proceed on your own by following the regimen you were taught.
Be sure to keep your protein intake up since you are working out hard. You don't need supplements, just eat lots of protein containing foods.
Keep the rotator cuff balanced by doing the Jobe elastic band exercises. This is very important.
Running and agility training will help as well.
Improving your mechanics will probably require working with a top notch pitching coach. Sadly, top notch pitching coaches can be difficult to find. The majority of the pitchers can gain mph faster through improving their mechanics than through any other means.
Sorry you have had to wade through so much dust & smoke in this thread.
Getting stronger will be best accomplished by a baseball oriented strength training program. Perhaps the best way to do this would be to find a good strength training facility that has a program designed around baseball. Once you have trained there for a while, you can probably then proceed on your own by following the regimen you were taught.
Be sure to keep your protein intake up since you are working out hard. You don't need supplements, just eat lots of protein containing foods.
Keep the rotator cuff balanced by doing the Jobe elastic band exercises. This is very important.
Running and agility training will help as well.
Improving your mechanics will probably require working with a top notch pitching coach. Sadly, top notch pitching coaches can be difficult to find. The majority of the pitchers can gain mph faster through improving their mechanics than through any other means.
Sorry you have had to wade through so much dust & smoke in this thread.
Texan-
Very well stated, especially.....
Very well stated, especially.....
quote:The majority of the pitchers can gain mph faster through improving their mechanics than through any other means.
Throw more. Texan is right on in his recommendations but I think the #1 reason kids don't develop velocity is that they do not long-toss and throw enough. And I don't mean just throwing 2-3 times a week in-season. I mean 5-6x week year-round! Long-toss protects the arm by keeping it stretched out and ready to perform and it also enhances arm speed. Do a Google search on "Alan Jaeger" and his long-toss program. He has worked with Barry Zito and many others to help build cannon arms. Good luck.
I will add, from personal experience, that if the arm is use to constant throwing year around (which I'm not speaking out against) and then goes into a rest period. So lets say for example you throw 7 straight months and then rest for 1 months of no throwing, it is possible the arms muscles (in my case in the back) may not "set" back in the right position after the 7 months. Meaning you will feel pain and lose velocity after a month of rest. If you must rest (which I think can help if done properly), make sure all your muscles, bones and such are "in place." I'm not a doctor, no, but I've gone through it, just advice to think about.
My 17 y.o. LHP son, just 5'10", has thrown year-round 5-6x week since age 12. At that time, I couldn't find him a team until 1/2 way through the season because he was told his arm was weak.
Each year he has consistently gained in velocity compared to his peers, and he was recently selected by the Seattle Mariners to their NW team which will compete in the Mariner Cup in August. His fastball is now upper 80's and still rising.
He has never had an arm problem. I know there are some who say shutdown completely in the offseason. I cannot address how successful that strategy is, since my kid has not done it. I believe his strategy (throw more often, not less!) is what has made him as good as he is today. Kids just do not throw enough today.
Each year he has consistently gained in velocity compared to his peers, and he was recently selected by the Seattle Mariners to their NW team which will compete in the Mariner Cup in August. His fastball is now upper 80's and still rising.
He has never had an arm problem. I know there are some who say shutdown completely in the offseason. I cannot address how successful that strategy is, since my kid has not done it. I believe his strategy (throw more often, not less!) is what has made him as good as he is today. Kids just do not throw enough today.
