Pitching mechanics and velocity

Your upper body may be trying to come forward before your front foot lands. Do you have any catcher-view footage?

at the the moment no i dont, but if im able to get another video i'll post it

Not a pitching coach, but I would seek an opinion of a professional pitching coach for evaluation.

I think that your mechanics look pretty good. What I see is a lack of arm speed and possibly arm strength. Not sure what kind of lifting, ab work and running you do but work at it. I see lots of thin, splindly guys like you bring it upper 80's. Arm strength and arm speed are two things I'd work on...jmho

okay thanks, throwing and strengthening my arm is something that i should be doing more often, living in canada its hard with all of the snow and how cold it gets in the winter, but thats definitly something that im going to try and do alot more of this year. I did lots of working out and running and i mean i had no problem pitching full games,its just the velocity thats concerning me.

I like a lot of what you do. The leg lift is behind the rubber, heal to catcher and high. Those are all power positions. Try not to let you shoulders go with your legs. You are counter-rotating. This will actually give you less body rotation.

Keep your shoulders square to your target area but do the same three elements of your lift. This will actually give you more torque. You stay closed for a long time in your delivery, that is good. Keep your tempo but speed it up at the end. If you get your shoulders right, you will feel as though a wave happens from the floor to the whip that will be created from your hand at delivery. You want the energy to transfer through your core and not around your core. You do that already.

I wouldn't change much, let you body work the way it is.

I agree with the posters who say work out. Getting athletic is a common theme with good pitchers. Best wishes on going forward.

Leeson,

The first thing I noticed when I watched your video last night was your lack of arm speed. Everybody agrees that working on your core and arm strength this off season is very important going into your senior year. IMO, your mechanics look pretty decent, but as Sultan suggested, a view from behind the plate would help. I'm with TPM, your best bet would be to seek out a local respected pitching coach to help guide you...rather than taking suggestions from us "Arm Chair" coaches.

Best of luck to you!

quote:

Originally posted by Leeson13:
okay thanks, throwing and strengthening my arm is something that i should be doing more often, living in canada its hard with all of the snow and how cold it gets in the winter, but thats definitly something that im going to try and do alot more of this year. I did lots of working out and running and i mean i had no problem pitching full games,its just the velocity thats concerning me.

Running doesn't strengthen your core. Try to find some pitcher specific workouts and weight gain, and I still would get an evaluation from a pitching instructor or seek out help from a scout.

Working out will help, but your immediate problem is technique. I agree with others, see a pitching coach to sort this out.

Baseball is almost non-existant where i live. I've been having to play for a team located 6 hours away from me, where i move with my grandparents each summer just to get exposure. A few years back i found a very good pitching instructor who i worked with and helped me improve significantly but things happened to him and he is no longer in this area. Money has also been an issue so im limited to the opportunites and help that i can get, but i mean now that i have some feedback i can work on some of the stuff mentioned.

I hate to do this but...

Here's a video of a pitcher that I know taken in 2007.

http://www.pitchingclips.com/players/david_kopp.htm

Not perfect but may give you an idea of where you should be at each stage in the delivery. Notice footwork, stride and where arm and torso are at foot plant.

Lot of pitchers there to look at as well.

Hope that this helps you out.

Leeson13,

Your Back Leg collapse causes your Front Leg to open like a gate and, at the same time, prematurely open your Hips. At Foot Plant, because you've already lost your Hips, you throw mostly Upper Body. Without your Lower Body connecting to your Upper Body, your velocity and command suffers.

To correct this, you must change your Front Leg position in your Starting Position so you begin your motion athletically stacked (with your weight centered within your Body).

A stacked Starting Position makes your entire motion more dynamic, will allow your Throwing Hand to become more of an extension of your Hips and allow you to realize better command/velocity.

L.A. "Skip" Fast
Pro Pitching Institute

In the video that TPM gave you, notice the front side glove on that player. You lose much when you drop the glove hand as you do, look into the concept of "equal and opposite. Also, skinny or not, your bottom half is passive (Along for the ride), power is derived from the ground up. It is very common at your age to be as fast as the arm can get you, without integrating in that lower half, you'll be trapped at max arm speed (Usually low 80's).
I think you are creating your own hurdles, Canadians have a solid spot in the majors, somehow all those other guys worked it out...I'm sure Fergie Jenkins didn't have even indoor facilities..maybe not even Ryan Dempster..so desire is the thing..if you want it bad enough, you'll find a place to work and maybe a protein shake or two to add a pound or two to your skinny self.

Thanks, thats what i was told even when i had my pitching instructor and even my dad, that it looked like i was never exploding my lower half and when he tryed getting me to do it, it just felt really weird for some reason but thats something im going to obviously have to work on doing if i want to gain more velocity. It would be great if i could get a 5-10 mph gain this year and then maybe hopefully play college ball.

Leeson13,

Exploding your Lower Half is not an action ...
Exploding your Lower Half is a reaction to your Body being athletically stacked just prior to your Foot Strike and your Glove Hand activity triggering your Lower Half explosion.

To move into your Foot Strike athletically stacked, your Coach needs to teach you how to synchronize your Arm/Leg actions while on one leg. To make maintaining a single leg athletic stack easier, you want to move into your single leg phase from an already athletically stacked Starting Position.

You use your Front Leg in your Starting Position to keep your Head vertically over your Bellybutton. You essentially use your Front Leg to keep yourself balanced much the same way a tight rope walker uses his pole to keep himself from falling off his wire.

Your motion is a kinetic chain of events. Your first plan of attack needs to be your Starting Position. Ignore this and you may find your extra 5-10 miles per hour, but you'll lack the command needed to attract lots of Baseball Scouts.

L.A. "Skip" Fast
Pro Pitching Institute

My command has never been a problem, thats one of the main reasons why im still able to pitch as effectively as i am without the overpowering velocity. I've been told by many people that i need to get my velocity up if i want to get scouted which is why im making it a higher priority at the moment. My strike outs per game have been cut in half from 10-11 to now 5-6 because of my minimal velocity gains over the past few years.

Leeson13,

I measure command by the Pitcher's ability to hit their spots, not by their results. I also measure my program's success by my ability to teach Pitchers how to stay athletically stacked through out their motion and, at Foot Strike, allow all their energy to instantly go up the Trunk and into their Throwing Hand. Their Throwing Hand moves through a consistently tiny release window with maximum Throwing Arm speed.

About you decline in strike outs ... Consider this, over the past few years, your opponents have becomes more patient and more knowledgeable about their pitch selection. From my experience, Pitchers who measure their performance in terms of their results typically put the ball over the plate more often than Pitchers whose laser-focus is motion execution.

Command and velocity go hand in hand. The more you hit your spots, the more all you energy moves through a small release window. The more energy that goes out your Throwing Hand, the greater your velocity.

To get scouted, you need both command within the strike zone (from your comment, I interpret you have command around the strike zone) and consistent Throwing Arm speed. Both are measured through your pitching chain (a one-page, spot-action pitching motion film strip) and your ability to hit your spots.

L.A. "Skip" Fast
Pro Pitching Institute

I understand what your saying, but i've had no problem hitting the catchers glove whether it be inside or outside even with my off speed pitches.

At the level im playing at if you miss your spots, or throw a ball right down the middle its getting hit hard unless your fastball is overpowering, which mine isn't, so command is something that i have to rely heavily on.

I made this thread because of my lack of velocity, not because i had a lack of command and wanted to see if there were things that i could do within my mechanics to help me improve it. Lack of arm speed and a passive lower half were things that were mentioned on here and were also mentioned to me in the past by coaches and my dad.

Leeson13,

Ask one of your Coaches to show you how to begin with an athletically stack starting position (I bet you begin your motion with all your weight over your Back Foot), synchronize your Arm/Leg movements to maintain your stack through your single leg phase and use your Glove Hand to trigger an ideal Foot Strike Sequence.

All these are extremely teachable skills. Master these and you'll immediately realize a more active lower half that produces exceptional arm speed.

L.A. "Skip" Fast
Pro Pitching Institute

Just my opinion but it appears from the video that you just need more strength (oomph) into and through release. It seems that you are perhaps so worried about how you finish (want to look good) that it may compromise any brute ability that you may have to put extra velocity on the ball. As a coach once told my son- "c'mon, throw the pi_ss out of it".

As for your mechanics- It all looks pretty good- good separation, good arm extension (straight, not bent at release), everything looks smooth and efficient, etc. You just need more "explosion" into and at release. Your follow through almost tells me that you are letting up trying to control how you look rather than just letting it all hang out. Just let er rip! You have good enough mechanics that you shouldn't mentally think about any of that- just throw the pi_ss out of it!

haha thats funny because i actually had friend on facebook comment on the video saying pretty much the same thing ! It's good to know that i'm getting alot of the same answers though in that i need to be more explosive and aggressive. Thats one thing that i am deffinitly going to work hard on this offseason.

quote:

Originally posted by Leeson13:
haha thats funny because i actually had friend on facebook comment on the video saying pretty much the same thing ! It's good to know that i'm getting alot of the same answers though in that i need to be more explosive and aggressive. Thats one thing that i am deffinitly going to work hard on this offseason.

The problem is that you are getting too many opinions.
Get on a good core, lower body workout, weight gain for the off season, then get some help with your mechanics, nothing is going to happen unless you incorporate the whole body. You keep throwing like that and you will eventually have an injury.
Explosive is just not throwing the **** out of the ball, you need specific training to achieve that goal.

Yes i have received alot of opinions, but haven't most been the same in that my mechanics look pretty good its just the lack of strength, arm speed, explosiveness etc that i'm lacking? Other people who have also watched the video have been telling me similar things, so is it not true?

quote:

Originally posted by Leeson13:
Yes i have received alot of opinions, but haven't most been the same in that my mechanics look pretty good its just the lack of strength, arm speed, explosiveness etc that i'm lacking? Other people who have also watched the video have been telling me similar things, so is it not true?

I'm saying the opposite of this. Your mechanics are not good. Otherwise, you would be throwing faster.

quote:

I'm saying the opposite of this. Your mechanics are not good. Otherwise, you would be throwing faster.

So in other words if you have good mechanics you can automatically throw hard? If that was the case nobody would play long toss and train to get stronger but i mean my mechanics cant be that bad, i spent a year working on them with a guy who could of played pro ball and i've always been complemented for my command. My mechanics are by no means perfect and yes there are some things i could probably do to make them better but i dont think there bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Leeson13:
I've been somewhat struggling this year and have been feeling like i've been getting into some bad habits like not staying tall and getting my arm up when im pitching causing me to lose some control and velocity.

Don't worry about staying tall. Your body will automatically adjust into a posture for which it has the strength to do what you're asking it to do. You wouldn't step up to the plate standing tall to swing a bat would you? Pitching is just as explosive a motion as is swinging a bat. Get into an athletic position. In fact, the closer your starting position is to the posture your body wants to adjust to, the less unnecessary movement you will have during your delivery.

quote:

I've been told that my velocity should be higher than what it is (79-81) going into my senior year, so i thought i'd get some help and feedback from here to see if it is my mechanics but would my size have anyhting to do with it? im 6'3 and only 160lbs so very skinny.

Anyway heres a video clip of me pitching..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=channel_video_title

I agree with jdfromfla that you're not using your lower half as effectively as you could. Specifically, you don't get your center of gravity moving towards the plate until after the peak of knee lift. That's too late. Many (most?) of the top pitchers in the game start forward before peak of knee lift. I'd suggest getting your hips moving sooner. But make this adjustment in small incremental steps. Make sure you lead with the front hip - not the front shoulder.

Getting yourself moving forward sooner (and possibly faster) will require proper strength in the legs (front leg, specifically) and the low back. Strength conditioning as others have suggested would be a good thing.

quote:

Any feedbacks appreciated.

I'm surprised noone mentioned that you're looking off towards 3B at front foot plant. It's common for pitchers to look down as they place their pivot foot but that's well before foot plant. Your head movement isn't necessarily a problem but be aware that it could become one if turning the head back towards home plate causes early shoulder rotation.

quote:

Originally posted by Leeson13:
haha thats funny because i actually had friend on facebook comment on the video saying pretty much the same thing ! It's good to know that i'm getting alot of the same answers though in that i need to be more explosive and aggressive. Thats one thing that i am deffinitly going to work hard on this offseason.

If you want to throw hard, you have to practice throwing hard.

I agree with the SultanofSwat. Command and velocity go hand-in-hand. Your motion is ordinarily functional and far from exceptional.

In an exceptional motion, the Pitcher uses their Arm/Leg action to channel all their energy into their Throwing Hand. In your motion, your Arm/Leg actions create a barrier redirecting your energy away from your Throwing Hand.

In my opinion, too much of well-intentioned advice in this thread talks about what you need to do. To find out how to do what everyone is talking about doing, you need someone to break you motion into your kinetic pitching chain and then tell you your personal Arm/Leg adjustments that'll channel all your energy into your Throwing Hand.

Proper motion execution measured by your pitching chain will immediately improve your command and velocity.

L.A. "Skip" Fast
Pro Pitching Institute

I agree with the above, too much talk on what you need to do instead of how to do it, which is why you need to seek out someone to show you proper mechanics (agree with SultanofSwat, they are not good).

It's all about learning to use the entire body and the kinectic chain that begins in your feet and moves throw your arm, which is there for the ride,not to do all of the work.

Your velocity will not improve just by throwing hard at this point. And FWIW, when going through adjustments you are going to lose your command.

Perhaps that is why you didn't take the advice given by that pitching coach.

Again, you won't be able to throw hard unless you make major adjustments.

I hate to see young players get info from people who have no idea what they are talking about, be careful.

Best of luck.

Leeson, spending a year with a trainer means...you spent a year with a trainer. Your mechs could have stunk at any moment before and after...keep in mind that pro's have to re-adjust all of the time. So will you if you manage to hang in there and your desire overcomes your obsticles.
This is a very interesting thread, you've got several folks wanting to assist you with some pretty good advice (Plenty of it is more meaningful than simple mechanics advice), everyone wants to help, some have more experience or different experience. Lots of cautions and caveats...be careful in doing what this site was created for (Sharing thoughts and ideas..good bad..ridiculous...it all gets put forth). I like to point to the fact that there are several very successful "guru's" out there, they all have different ideas on how to train up a pitcher. I like to recommend, particularly if you are attempting to understand something, listen to as much as you can, from as many sources as possible and then, throw out what doesn't make sense for you and use what does.
Having another p coach, who is on the ground with you is terrific advice and it is good advice because only someone who is experiencing you in person can really determine the minor adjustments that need to be made as you correct your issues (Fixing one thing may and will cause other issues). We all understand that there are difficulties for you in doing that...the difference maker will be if you can overcome those difficulties to get where you need to be. You can certainly pitch in college in the low 80's, it just won't be for a major school or in a major division, as it gets closer, you'll realize that "any" place where you can continue the dream will be good.

Good Luck..stay focused, work hard

quote:

I agree with the above, too much talk on what you need to do instead of how to do it, which is why you need to seek out someone to show you proper mechanics (agree with SultanofSwat, they are not good).

It's all about learning to use the entire body and the kinectic chain that begins in your feet and moves throw your arm, which is there for the ride,not to do all of the work.

Your velocity will not improve just by throwing hard at this point. And FWIW, when going through adjustments you are going to lose your command.

Perhaps that is why you didn't take the advice given by that pitching coach.

Again, you won't be able to throw hard unless you make major adjustments.

I hate to see young players get info from people who have no idea what they are talking about, be careful.

Best of luck.

I just dont understand how my mechanics could be that bad. Yes i may have picked up some bad habits over the past couple of years but i mean i spent alot of money to work with my pitching instructor, in which i also had to give up hockey for. He was also a college recruiter and sent a few kids down south in texas to play college ball who threw low 90's. I had absolutly no mechanics before i worked with him and had constant arm pain. I did all of the drills and worked hard when i was with him and told me that i picked up everything taught to me quickly. I even gained a little bit of velocity when i was finished with him, but the one thing that he could never really get me to do was explode and get everything moving quicker. I just talked to a kid who worked with him and has similar mechanics to me and was clocked at 86 mph and hes only going into the 9th grade, but he looks ALOT more explosive then i am. The one thing that i have heard alot of and you may have noticed my coach saying in the video is staying on top, i've found that my arm might be dragging alot more than it used to. I even had a teamate tell me this when we were playing long toss.

Leeson, I agree with jdfromfla. You will get a lot of opinions from a lot of people on here. I am not a professional pitching coach, but I would say overall, you have a pretty decent foundation for your mechanics. They are not that bad. Are there things you need to work on and get polished? Certainly. No pitcher doesn't have things they need to work on from time to time.

I also see one of the biggest things you need to work on is your explosiveness. It looks to me like you are trying very hard to stay smooth throught your delivery in order to keep your mechanics consistent. That is good for practicing and trying to develop certain aspects of your delivery, but once you have that down, you need to actually try to throw hard. If you have engrained your mechanics into muscle memory, you should be able to try to really air it out and keep the mechanics you have been working on.

I would try to take what people are trying to tell you, apply what you think applies to you and disregard what you don't think applies to you. Also, if you try to change too many things at once, it will mess everything up, especially if you do it without the help of a pitching coach.

Find yourself a good coach (I know you said it is hard to do right now), get out there and work on trying to throw harder and keep your head up. I think that doing some long toss will help in that it will help train your body to explode in the attempt to throw as far as you can. Hang in there.

quote:

I agree with the SultanofSwat. Command and velocity go hand-in-hand. Your motion is ordinarily functional and far from exceptional.

In an exceptional motion, the Pitcher uses their Arm/Leg action to channel all their energy into their Throwing Hand. In your motion, your Arm/Leg actions create a barrier redirecting your energy away from your Throwing Hand.

In my opinion, too much of well-intentioned advice in this thread talks about what you need to do. To find out how to do what everyone is talking about doing, you need someone to break you motion into your kinetic pitching chain and then tell you your personal Arm/Leg adjustments that'll channel all your energy into your Throwing Hand.

Proper motion execution measured by your pitching chain will immediately improve your command and velocity.

If my mechanics are so bad then how am i still able to be somewhat successful playing agaisnt some of the best teams in this area? Are you also saying that my pitching instructor had no clue what he was doing or are you just trying to market and advertise your pitching program? because it sure does seem like you are and if you are don't bother posting on this thread. Yes i feel that my mechanics have gotten worse from not being able to work on them with him but by no means do i think that they are "far from exceptional"

I even had an ex-pro pitcher, john upham evaluate me probably around 7-8 months ago and there were only a few things that he was trying to correct, other than that he liked me as a pitcher.

quote:

If my mechanics are so bad then how am i still able to be somewhat successful playing agaisnt some of the best teams in this area?

This is what you said first

quote:

I've been somewhat struggling this year and have been feeling like i've been getting into some bad habits like not staying tall and getting my arm up when im pitching causing me to lose some control and velocity. I've been told that my velocity should be higher than what it is (79-81) going into my senior year, so i thought i'd get some help and feedback from here to see if it is my mechanics

At your age and size, you should be able to improve your technique to significantly improve your velocity. It's that simple.

quote:

At your age and size, you should be able to improve your technique to significantly improve your velocity. It's that simple.

Ya struggling as in not doing as good as i did last year and even previous years, i had a phenominal year last year,but what i meant by some what successful was that im still winning games just not as efficiently as i once was. I have no size, so how does size help me? I dont think i can get any skinnier than i am right now and you could have the best mechanics in the world but if you dont use those mechanics explosively you still wont throw hard, you'll just have really good command and maybe average velocity

quote:

Originally posted by Leeson13:

quote:

At your age and size, you should be able to improve your technique to significantly improve your velocity. It's that simple.

Ya struggling as in not doing as good as i did last year and even previous years, i had a phenominal year last year,but what i meant by some what successful was that im still winning games just not as efficiently as i once was. I have no size, so how does size help me? I dont think i can get any skinnier than i am right now and you could have the best mechanics in the world but if you dont use those mechanics explosively you still wont throw hard, you'll just have really good command and maybe average velocity

Read Dixon's The Exceptional Player. It isn't in print anymore, but I'll PM you a link where it can be found.

Okay now I am confused. You asked for help and now you want to argue every point that they give you for help. Maybe we are getting to the root of the problem, eh?

Leeson13,

You may get a 100 different opinions here. Even going to the professionals you still may get a hundered different opinions. Do those things you can positively control that we all know improves velocity- Work harder, train harder, practice throwing harder, build your core and stabalizing muscles up more. Your mechanics really look pretty decent. Often times, when you train harder and thus end up throwing harder, your mechanics slightly tweak on their own. Mostly it's minute timing adjustments that just come naturally whn you practice harder.

quote:

Okay now I am confused. You asked for help and now you want to argue every point that they give you for help. Maybe we are getting to the root of the problem, eh?

backstopdad, im willing to take criticism its just when somebody tells me i should throw out my mechanics and that they pretty much suck it frusterates me because i worked so hard on my mechanics with my instructor. I agree with most of the suggestions that aren't telling me i have garbage mechanics because they make more sense, i worked out and trained all year but i don't think i trained the way i should of as a pitcher. I didn't throw very much, i did more long distance running vs sprints and i could have done alot more explosive exercises in the weight room. My dad even mentioned this to me after learning how pitchers should be training. If i didn't work with anyone on my mechanics then yes i would take the suggestion of getting new mechanics into consideration, i just don't feel as though my mechanics are terrible but rather that there are little things that i need to correct within my mechanics.