Does anyone know how to correctly throw a slider without hurting their arm? I am trying to work on it but I am afraid of doing something wrong and hurting my arm.
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As with a curveball, you have to create the spin with your fingers and your hand rather than by supinating (e.g. rotating clockwise) your forearm.
Georgia
Find a "real" pitching coach in your area that you can trust and work with.
By the way what age are you?
Find a "real" pitching coach in your area that you can trust and work with.
By the way what age are you?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Georgia
Find a "real" pitching coach in your area that you can trust and work with.
By the way what age are you?
Excellent advice.
As TR asked, how old are you? According to the Braves chief orthopedist, Dr. Joe Chandler, kids shouldn't start throwing sliders until around age 18. He's done a lot of study and research on the subject, and is very convinced that kids throwing sliders at too young of an age is a big contributor to arm injuries later on.
Thanks for the advice. I am only 16 years old. Maybe it would be better to wait until I'm 18.
Yes it might and get a real good pitching coach as well
Can really screw up an arm if not thrown correctly. I agree on the age of being 18 or older. Perfect the change up,four seam fast ball, two seam fast ball, and a properly excuted curve
ball. Learn to change speeds and hit your spots.
ball. Learn to change speeds and hit your spots.
Finding a real pitching coach would be the best course of action... at 16, all you need are three pitches anyway - 4S FB, 2S FB and a changeup. Thrown properly you will get high school hitter out with just those three. Add in a curve when you are shaving regularly (e.g. your growth plates are closed) and you will be doing just fine. Mastering those pitches will keep you plenty busy until you are 18 anyway...
Its REALLY hard to wait until you've quit growing to throw the CB. My son encountered a lot of grief from coaches in both HS and summer ball when he wouldn't throw the CB. Some even tried to trick him into a pitch with a different name, but the same stress on the body. One was called a football pitch.
Bottom line:
Some kids throw the CB when they're younger and have no ill effects (that they admit). Most kids get a sore arm. The literature you find on this subject says to wait until you're done growing. How badly do you want to pitch beyond HS?
My son started the CB last August and its really a great pitch. He's 18 years old and his body can handle it. But his pitching coach is still telling him to only throw it about 8-10 times per game. Its a back-up pitch, not his bread and butter. By working on the FB and CH for years, he increased his control and velocity of these two pitches and that's what got him the college attention.
It takes a strong kid to realize that the glory days of HS are not worth the risk of injury associated with the CB (slider, splitter, etc). But be ready for pressure from HS programs. Its also tough to sit back and see the success of a HS junk pitcher who only throws 70mph. Yes, it will work against weaker HS competition, but it won't get you to college!
Be strong in your goals and your own choices. Its not the first tough decision you'll have to make in life!
Bottom line:
Some kids throw the CB when they're younger and have no ill effects (that they admit). Most kids get a sore arm. The literature you find on this subject says to wait until you're done growing. How badly do you want to pitch beyond HS?
My son started the CB last August and its really a great pitch. He's 18 years old and his body can handle it. But his pitching coach is still telling him to only throw it about 8-10 times per game. Its a back-up pitch, not his bread and butter. By working on the FB and CH for years, he increased his control and velocity of these two pitches and that's what got him the college attention.
It takes a strong kid to realize that the glory days of HS are not worth the risk of injury associated with the CB (slider, splitter, etc). But be ready for pressure from HS programs. Its also tough to sit back and see the success of a HS junk pitcher who only throws 70mph. Yes, it will work against weaker HS competition, but it won't get you to college!
Be strong in your goals and your own choices. Its not the first tough decision you'll have to make in life!
KC
Since my son falls into the "junk" category that you mentioned, I prefer to use the word "control".
Velocity is great and essential to move on to the next level but control is essential as well. The higher the level of competition the easier it is for hitters to catch up with the heaters.
I don't fully understand your position on the use of a curveball at a young age. There are many variations of the curve that kids are throwing these days that don't put anymore stress on the arm than a fastball.
Since my son falls into the "junk" category that you mentioned, I prefer to use the word "control".
Velocity is great and essential to move on to the next level but control is essential as well. The higher the level of competition the easier it is for hitters to catch up with the heaters.I don't fully understand your position on the use of a curveball at a young age. There are many variations of the curve that kids are throwing these days that don't put anymore stress on the arm than a fastball.
My son was 10 when he started throwing what I refer to as a little league curveball 11-5. He still mixes it in as a once in a while pitch. Throw it twice and a college hitter will hit it hard.
Son has never had an arm injury . His only arm problem was a stressed Ulnar last year because he couldn't keep his arm warm in freezing weather. Pulled him self in the 5th after 3 pitches because his elbow felt tight.
Learn to throw a CB properly and it can be a safe pitch. Also do all the long toss and other things that keep your arm strong.
Son has never had an arm injury . His only arm problem was a stressed Ulnar last year because he couldn't keep his arm warm in freezing weather. Pulled him self in the 5th after 3 pitches because his elbow felt tight.
Learn to throw a CB properly and it can be a safe pitch. Also do all the long toss and other things that keep your arm strong.
quote:Throw it twice and a college hitter will hit it hard.
And the more disciplined HS player, as well!
Not trying to ruffle any feathers with what is just my opinion. Only sharing what has worked for us and what our pitching coach endorses.
Maybe my use of the term junk is offensive. I'm referring to the player that has nothing but breaking pitches and experiences success at the HS level. It can be very effective and provide short term success. Its really hard to convince your teenager to stick with the plan until he grows enough to handle the CB, when his peers are seeing success with a pitch that, IMO, can hurt his arm.
Here is an informative link which supports our pitching coach's thinking:
http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/research/usedarticles/elbshopain.htm
You can read the whole article, but the conclusion is:
"The authors recommended that pitchers between the ages of 9 and 12 should limit themselves to throw only fastballs and change-ups, and not throw sliders or curveballs." American Sports Medicine Institute
We thought there were variations on the curve, as well, but our instructor says a curve is a curve and any different name won't change the stress on your arm. That's just HIS OPINION (would that be IHO?).
Parents and players will make their own choices. I was only attempting to provide our own experience, which worked for us.
I'm certainly not an expert, but I believe you can be educated without being an expert, so I read and reach my own conclusions. I'm sure you will do the same and websites like this only attempt to provide more input. Again, I'm not an expert, just another parent with another opinion! 
I respect your opinion as long as you are not Chris.
I can only tell you my experience witha 19YO LHP who has had expert Professional pitching guidance all his years of playing ball.
You can also find written professional opinions that say the oposite of what you believe.
My son's doctor is a co authour of "The Pitchers Edge" and former pitcher evaluator for the Texas Rangers. His relationship to Tom House and Nolan Ryan was formed during this time at the Texas rangers and he still flies to Texas to collaborate with them on new books. Every once in a while he checks my son out. To watch a professional work a pitcher over is a thing of beauty. He can feel, poke and prod and do things that you have never seen before. He says he has a perfect shoulder etc.
When my son started pitching he learned a method of throwing a CB that did not have the Tomahawk motion and there was no stress on his elbow. When he was 17 he developed the ML CB with a tighter rotation and it also is thrown safely. He is a junk ball pitcher with an maxed 84 FB.
The CB also concerned me but after talking to MLB coaches and him assurring me that he felt no stress on his arm he perfected the pitch.
The use of the CB was not promted by being a hero in HS or any other team. The biggest problem with a CB is that if you are not on you can have a bad day. Some days you fust don't have the feel and you can't hit spots and hang it up.
I actually felt that over throwing the fast ball can be just as dangerous.
I can only tell you my experience witha 19YO LHP who has had expert Professional pitching guidance all his years of playing ball.
You can also find written professional opinions that say the oposite of what you believe.
My son's doctor is a co authour of "The Pitchers Edge" and former pitcher evaluator for the Texas Rangers. His relationship to Tom House and Nolan Ryan was formed during this time at the Texas rangers and he still flies to Texas to collaborate with them on new books. Every once in a while he checks my son out. To watch a professional work a pitcher over is a thing of beauty. He can feel, poke and prod and do things that you have never seen before. He says he has a perfect shoulder etc.
When my son started pitching he learned a method of throwing a CB that did not have the Tomahawk motion and there was no stress on his elbow. When he was 17 he developed the ML CB with a tighter rotation and it also is thrown safely. He is a junk ball pitcher with an maxed 84 FB.
The CB also concerned me but after talking to MLB coaches and him assurring me that he felt no stress on his arm he perfected the pitch.
The use of the CB was not promted by being a hero in HS or any other team. The biggest problem with a CB is that if you are not on you can have a bad day. Some days you fust don't have the feel and you can't hit spots and hang it up.
I actually felt that over throwing the fast ball can be just as dangerous.
I read the article and I wonder the level of skill of the pitchers. ie do they have poor,good or excellent mechanics. I also wonder the level of coaching expertise as it pertains to pitchin and conditioning.
I am not sure wether that would qualify as Scientific Proof.
i am not trying to be argumentive but I watch all levels of baseball and I see injuries all the time. Our single A team used to be the Rehab Team for the Jays and half the guys I talked to injured themselves by trying to throw too hard or poor mechanics.
I am not sure wether that would qualify as Scientific Proof.
i am not trying to be argumentive but I watch all levels of baseball and I see injuries all the time. Our single A team used to be the Rehab Team for the Jays and half the guys I talked to injured themselves by trying to throw too hard or poor mechanics.
BobbleheadDoll
You are very fortunate to have had the guidance of someone at that level. Unfortunately, most youth players are not so lucky. I know there is literature to support almost every school of thought.
I guess my fear comes from the majority of the players who throw a CB and don't have help. I'd be willing to bet that most parents have no idea the difference between the two types of CB you refer to...
Again, I'm coming from our own experience, just as you are. I really believe that throwing the CB at a young age has hurt many pitcher's arms. If you focus on your FB and CH, they will get better (stronger, more control) and the CB can be introduced when the body is ready. I wish all players had the benefit of professional expertise and instruction and could have the protection your son had.
You are very fortunate to have had the guidance of someone at that level. Unfortunately, most youth players are not so lucky. I know there is literature to support almost every school of thought.
I guess my fear comes from the majority of the players who throw a CB and don't have help. I'd be willing to bet that most parents have no idea the difference between the two types of CB you refer to...
quote:When my son started pitching he learned a method of throwing a CB that did not have the Tomahawk motion and there was no stress on his elbow. When he was 17 he developed the ML CB
Again, I'm coming from our own experience, just as you are. I really believe that throwing the CB at a young age has hurt many pitcher's arms. If you focus on your FB and CH, they will get better (stronger, more control) and the CB can be introduced when the body is ready. I wish all players had the benefit of professional expertise and instruction and could have the protection your son had.
We're typing at the same time! I think our last two posts support each other!
I am big on getting proper training from an eary age.
I always stress getting proper help and I do realize that not every one can get proper help.
Unfortuanately you have to get good instruction atleast from good books. Pitching can be very hard on your arm and surjury is not always successful. I nave a cather friend who had Tommy John and it didn't work. He lost his scholarship 2 years ago and has not returned to playing baseball. Doubts he ever will.
Defintely play it on the safe side if you can't get the professional help.
You are absolutely right that you can find an expert to back any position about this.
I always stress getting proper help and I do realize that not every one can get proper help.
Unfortuanately you have to get good instruction atleast from good books. Pitching can be very hard on your arm and surjury is not always successful. I nave a cather friend who had Tommy John and it didn't work. He lost his scholarship 2 years ago and has not returned to playing baseball. Doubts he ever will.
Defintely play it on the safe side if you can't get the professional help.
You are absolutely right that you can find an expert to back any position about this.
Whenever you start throwing the curveball, I think the key is getting the right instruction - and then mastering it with that instructor. Most youth baseball coaches that I know (myself included) are not qualified to teach the curve.
Like some of other posters in this thread, I have seen many pitchers who start throwing the curveball at a young age, probably with bad mechanics, who have arm trouble. Personally, none of the kids who were the star pitchers in Little League, are still pitching now that my son is in High School. Obviously the kids went through puberty and as a result different kids matured at different rates - but it is interesting that the best pitchers at this point essentially did not pitch as 12 YOs.
My son started throwing the curveball, under the guidance of a former minor league pitcher with 10 years of coaching experience post his professional life, at the age of 14. Prior to that, he had focused on mastering the changeup as well as both fastballs. Now at 15 his curveball is still a work in progress - but he really doesn't need it yet to get hitter out. If anything, I wish we had waited another year before starting work on the curve.
Like some of other posters in this thread, I have seen many pitchers who start throwing the curveball at a young age, probably with bad mechanics, who have arm trouble. Personally, none of the kids who were the star pitchers in Little League, are still pitching now that my son is in High School. Obviously the kids went through puberty and as a result different kids matured at different rates - but it is interesting that the best pitchers at this point essentially did not pitch as 12 YOs.
My son started throwing the curveball, under the guidance of a former minor league pitcher with 10 years of coaching experience post his professional life, at the age of 14. Prior to that, he had focused on mastering the changeup as well as both fastballs. Now at 15 his curveball is still a work in progress - but he really doesn't need it yet to get hitter out. If anything, I wish we had waited another year before starting work on the curve.
Regarding youth pitchers and throwing curve balls, I'll have to look at my notes when I get home but I'm pretty sure that Dr. Chandler cautions agains throwing any kind of curve until around age 14 to 16. (Even then, as others have pointed out, it's important to learn to throw it properly.) I know there are all kind of anectodal opinions, maybe one kid started throwing the curve at 12 and his arm is ok, etc. But Dr. Chandler has been doing this research for years, and as the head orthopedist for the Braves I'd say he knows what he's talking about.
You will always have varying opinions on this subject, but what I appreciate about this thread is that we are able to discuss our differences without resorting to hot tempers! Our different opinions are just that...different opinions! A few other posters from other threads could take a lesson!
And my 75-yr-old mother-in-law, a heavy smoker for 60 years, is in perfect health (true story). Don't try to tell her that cigarettes are bad for you!
There are always exceptions to the norm and throwing the CB at an early age often hurts a pitcher's arm. Instruction and ongoing supervision are helpful.
quote:I know there are all kind of anectodal opinions, maybe one kid started throwing the curve at 12 and his arm is ok
And my 75-yr-old mother-in-law, a heavy smoker for 60 years, is in perfect health (true story). Don't try to tell her that cigarettes are bad for you!
There are always exceptions to the norm and throwing the CB at an early age often hurts a pitcher's arm. Instruction and ongoing supervision are helpful.
The only value in teaching a young pitcher how to throw a curve correctly is so that they do not try to learn to throw it incorrectly on their own. Problem is, young players who learn to throw it, like to use it because young hitters can't hit it. Same goes for the slider, which should NOT be used at all until later, much later. My son just learned to throw a slider, and will use it only as a show pitch, he is 20. He relies little on the CB.
Young pitchers need to concentrate on what has been suggested, sound mechanics, 2 seam and 4 seam FB and change up, velocity, deception.
The rest can come later on.
KC I agree with you 100% but you will always find pitching coaches and parents who feel differently, because their sons at 18,19, still show no apparent signs of injury. And a curve is a curve, there are no variations unless the pitcher is throwing what some call a slurve, CB plus slider.
I am not really sure of the usage of the term "junk". I know most pitchers prefer the term , "nasty".
Bobblehead, wondering why the need for the doctor.
Young pitchers need to concentrate on what has been suggested, sound mechanics, 2 seam and 4 seam FB and change up, velocity, deception.
The rest can come later on.
KC I agree with you 100% but you will always find pitching coaches and parents who feel differently, because their sons at 18,19, still show no apparent signs of injury. And a curve is a curve, there are no variations unless the pitcher is throwing what some call a slurve, CB plus slider.
I am not really sure of the usage of the term "junk". I know most pitchers prefer the term , "nasty".
Bobblehead, wondering why the need for the doctor.
I am involved with Travel ball(10 yr olders) in NE FL and saw about 35 curves from only two pitchers in a 6 inning game this past weekend against us. The parents and coaches all seemed to find it amusing that most of our kids were having trouble catching up to it. They were making the "it's so nasty" comments and laughing. I am fairly certain these 2 boys and their parents will regret this abuse in the future and realize that winning a 10 year old game wasn't worth it. My son only throws 2 & 4 seamer, change and a goofy knuckle(2 fingered) and he went 4 scoreless and we beat them. I completely agree with the no curve/slider until at least high school junior/senior.
JUNK
Pitches that do not break 80 but have movement and location
NASTY
A slider that looks like a 95 mph FB but all of a sudden disappears when you swing at it
Pitches that do not break 80 but have movement and location
NASTY
A slider that looks like a 95 mph FB but all of a sudden disappears when you swing at it
TPM if you have a guy who evaluates pitchers for a living 5 miles away, you use him. In Canada we have to pay for his services and he has not charged me yet. I was introduced to him by a very wealthy corporate lawyer who houses the like of Randy Johnston, Tom House Nolan Ryan and several other MLB greats while they are visiting the doctor. What parent/young pitcher would not form a relationship with this guy. A trip to his office is an experience. It always ends up outside going through son's pitching motion. He is more involved in NACAR now because the money is so much better. His eyes light up when he gets to work with a pitcher.
As far as curve balls go I guess we are real lucky. Lucky in that we got great advice and yes a lot of people laughed when hitters skrewed themselves into the ground trying to hit the junk.
I have seen kids throwing nothing but fastballs at 14-15 and they are all burned by 17-18. Most of them were early developers who have arm problems almost on que every year. I know one guy who has not made it through a season for the last 4 years. Hits 89-90 off flat gound and is built like a tank and is injured every year. 3 years ago didn't pitch 1 pitch all year.
I had complete trust in the guys who trained my son and I was not dissapointed. We are now working on his FB. I guess its a matter of thinking outside the BOX.
As far as curve balls go I guess we are real lucky. Lucky in that we got great advice and yes a lot of people laughed when hitters skrewed themselves into the ground trying to hit the junk.
I have seen kids throwing nothing but fastballs at 14-15 and they are all burned by 17-18. Most of them were early developers who have arm problems almost on que every year. I know one guy who has not made it through a season for the last 4 years. Hits 89-90 off flat gound and is built like a tank and is injured every year. 3 years ago didn't pitch 1 pitch all year.
I had complete trust in the guys who trained my son and I was not dissapointed. We are now working on his FB. I guess its a matter of thinking outside the BOX.
quote:Originally posted by gogolf18:
I am involved with Travel ball(10 yr olders) in NE FL and saw about 35 curves from only two pitchers in a 6 inning game this past weekend against us. The parents and coaches all seemed to find it amusing that most of our kids were having trouble catching up to it. They were making the "it's so nasty" comments and laughing. I am fairly certain these 2 boys and their parents will regret this abuse in the future and realize that winning a 10 year old game wasn't worth it. My son only throws 2 & 4 seamer, change and a goofy knuckle(2 fingered) and he went 4 scoreless and we beat them. I completely agree with the no curve/slider until at least high school junior/senior.
Most of the boys throwing curveballs at that age who live around here have gone nowhere. Curveballs should be illegal for that age to throw.
TR,
Thanks for the definition.
Bobblehead,
Cool about the doctor. Mine threw nothing but FB and changes and he did not burn out. And as stated in a post by PG, one never really knows why pitchers get injured, even pitchers with good mechanics get hurt. And, there is a lot more info available these days about arm injuries than when our kids (who are about the same age) were younger.
Your son may be one of the lucky ones who threw them young and will escape any problems.
I have seen infielders and outfielders come up with arm injuries which had no apparent cause, that anyone knew of.
The human body is a frail entity
The human body is a frail entity
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I have seen infielders and outfielders come up with arm injuries which had no apparent cause, that anyone knew of.
The human body is a frail entity
That's why IMO you try to do as much as you can to prevent injury!
Will anybody acknowledge that some grips on the ball thrown with a fastball arm motion can create a very good curveball?!
TPM
Our coaches have our guys at the field better than 2 hours prior to game time--the better part of the first hour is spent getting the body loose and stretched out
Our coaches have our guys at the field better than 2 hours prior to game time--the better part of the first hour is spent getting the body loose and stretched out
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM
Our coaches have our guys at the field better than 2 hours prior to game time--the better part of the first hour is spent getting the body loose and stretched out
And even when you do warm up properly things happen, just ask mine.
I do beleive that most pitchers who end up injured are somewhat of a result because parents don't realize what can happen. Not their faults, sometimes not even the coaches fault. So you take the knowledge you have and decide what you as a parent feel is best for your son, pitcher, catcher, fielder.
I am following this pitcher in my area who is ranked in top prospect for draft this year. I can almost make a predition once he gets drafted (he will)he will be sidelined, if not sooner.
quote:Will anybody acknowledge that some grips on the ball thrown with a fastball arm motion can create a very good curveball?!
Ummm, it doesn't sound like it.
Look, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on pitching, but I do know something about physics and aerodynamics. You're not going to get a ball to break without putting spin on it. A fastball has backspin of course, so the aerodynamic forces will be creating a small amount of lift. To make a curveball break it has to have forward spin, I just can't imagine that's possible without the wrist/elbow action that the medical people are saying causes problems for kids.
quote:Originally posted by StyleMismatch:
[QUOTE]
Ummm, it doesn't sound like it.
To make a curveball break it has to have forward spin, I just can't imagine that's possible without the wrist/elbow action that the medical people are saying causes problems for kids.
That's one NO!
quote:Originally posted by Georgia_Baseball:
Does anyone know how to correctly throw a slider without hurting their arm? I am trying to work on it but I am afraid of doing something wrong and hurting my arm.
There has been a lot of very good advice on this subject--especially age-specific so as not to harm a young arm. But, assuming you're (or anyone) at the proper age to learn a slider or curve without undue risk of injury/harm, there is another facet to consider. Arm slot. The arm slot you employ has a lot to do with your success with either pitch. As a personal example, my son's coaches through the years have had him throw curves (he's now 16) and he resisted (perhaps because I told him to lay off the curve!) and because he never got good results with one except sporadically, and whenever he did throw it (at the insistence of a coach), he usually would throw his changeup instead and it acted pretty much like a curve. He's always relied on his fastball(s) and his change-up. In fact, his cu has both sink and fade and has always been an "out" pitch for him. But, a couple of months ago at the Notre Dame winter camp, Coach Rooney told him to forget about throwing a curveball because his arm slot doesn't lend itself to throwing a curve at all. He has a low 3/4 slot. He told him not to change his arm slot as it was natural for him and that that slot gave all his pitches tremendous movement. He told him to work on a slider instead, as that was perfect for his particular arm slot. The next week, his private pitching coach (a former major leaguer with the Cubs & Padres) said he fully agreed with Coach Rooney and taught him a slider that day and it was an instant success. His private coach had a kid following mine for lessons who has obtained a scholarship at LSU for next year (he's a h.s. senior now) and he had him stand in against my son's "new" slider and the young man just shook his head when he saw it and said it was going to be very difficult to hit at any level. It had a sharp break of over a foot. His curve? BP pitch--one of those things you just wait on and drive over the nearest fence...
The only point I'm trying to make is to suggest that you solicit the advice of a knowledgeable coach to see which pitch is better for your arm own slot. If you're pitching like my boy, from a low 3/4, you may find that a curve isn't going to work for you. And then, there are those with the kind of arm slot that can throw both... usually a higher 3/4. (Just not at our house.)
Above all, don't try either until you're at the right age and physical maturity to attempt it safely. As good as my son's new pitch is, he won't throw it more than 3-4 times a game, if even that. He's got a mature build (6'2", 215 lbs), but he's still too young to throw it very much at all.
Hope this helps!
When you throw a fastball and it breaks, it is called a cut fastball, not a curve.
The next pitch that you find that is good for your arm will be the first one. Its all apples and oranges, in one hand you want to take care of your arm, and in the other hand you need to get people out in order to obtain a scholorship or get drafted. Risk and reward, or just risk? peace
quote:He told him not to change his arm slot as it was natural for him and that that slot gave all his pitches tremendous movement. He told him to work on a slider instead, as that was perfect for his particular arm slot. The next week, his private pitching coach (a former major leaguer with the Cubs & Padres) said he fully agreed with Coach Rooney and taught him a slider that day and it was an instant success.
Blue Sky,
Just curious... Why didn't the private instructor mention this before hand? It's kind of common knowledge that low 3/4 angle is more conducive to throwing sliders rather than curve balls.
Bluesky and Jerry,
The only problem with that LTQ you are referring with sliders is if you hang 'em good hitters will bang 'em-lol
In all seriousness I would prefer HTQ or TQ with a 12-6 or 1-7 breakingball type of guy. Those LTQ guys just seem to throw too many flat homerun/double pitches to my liking.
Jerry, we got Marrero at 6.8 in 60 yd dash which does help his cause for 1st round.
Shep
The only problem with that LTQ you are referring with sliders is if you hang 'em good hitters will bang 'em-lol
In all seriousness I would prefer HTQ or TQ with a 12-6 or 1-7 breakingball type of guy. Those LTQ guys just seem to throw too many flat homerun/double pitches to my liking.
Jerry, we got Marrero at 6.8 in 60 yd dash which does help his cause for 1st round.
Shep
I have seen many big MLB pitchers throw great sliders from different arm slots (Nen, Smoltz, Eck), but what rarely gets addressed is the path that thier arm makes on its backstroke. This has been very instumental in helping me determine wether a slider of curve should be taught. The shorter backstrokes generally end up throwng better curves while the longer back strokes have had an easier time learning the slider. Of course theres exceptions, but I have definetly noticed a trend.....P.S. I know im a brutal speller