Pitching velocity necessary to succeed in college

Provi- I too am an '08 LHP. With the numbers you just gave, you'll be just fine. Keep working hard, get in the weight room and play, play, play. Coaches love lefties, especially the projectable ones.

Thanks JH. I appreciate your response. I'd also like to add that what I got out of a conversation with the coach was that my talent level was on the cusp of D-I/D-II. Meaning I could be a situational D-I pitcher if I so chose, or be a weekend starter at a D-II school. With those numbers would most of you out there agree?

Provi Celtics '08:

My son is an '08 LHP. He was told by a Pac-10 Division I coach at their camp that the minimum needed was 84-85 on the Jugs (thats 81-82 on the Stalker). Which gun did you test on? If you are 87-88+ on the Stalker, assuming you are a good pitcher with solid mechanics and 3 good pitches, you will garner top-level DI and pro interest. If you are 85+ on the Stalker, as a lefty, you'll get a lot of offers. But 81-82 and you still have a shot. Keep working hard, and long-toss!

Bum,

I tested on a Jugs at 80 topped out with consistant readings of 77-79.

Provi Celtics 08,

I think this is always a very interesting question.

My son is 4 years older than you, just beginning his junior year of college, but he's an RHP (darn). When he was in his junior and senior years of HS, we were told some general velocity ranges for various levels of college: D1 high-80s to 90+, D2 mid-80s, and D3 low-80s. And we were told that an LHP might fit in with about 2 mph less.

What we've seen since is that there is really too much variation at every level, and variation between pitchers, for those numbers to be any more than general starting points for your research. My son pitches at a D3 and we literally see successful pitchers at that level from the high 70s to high 80s and a few touching 90. Not many successful high 70s guys and they obviously have to have a LOT of the other skills you mentioned, but there are a few. A D2 school in the same city as my son's D3 had 4 or 5 pitchers topping 90 mph a year or two ago. And some of the successful pitchers we've seen at the D1 level throw mid-80s in games.

Another part of the equation is, if you throw 77-80 now, how hard will you throw in 2 years as a college freshman? You don't sound like the type of pitcher who has "topped out" so you may gain 2 mph per year with just normal maturation and continued hard work. That would put you at 81-84 as a freshman.

Best wishes to you, and keep doing your research and working hard. It sounds like you have a good future on the mound!

I agree with MN mom, always an interesting question, no one really has an answer for.

Mine pitches for a larger D1 program and most of the pitchers throw in the 90's but they also know how to pitch. Some of the lefties are 82-85+ and some now are 90-95 guys. Bum is pretty accurate about what D1 programs look for in lefties.

D1 programs vary in their needs depending upon competition. There is nothing you can do but play your best game, toss, toss, toss and wait for good old mother nature to do her job.

Provi Celti 08:

I don't think that I can speak to your velocity question any better than the folks who have already responded. I would add the following thoughts, though:

(1) The better your grades and SAT/ACT scores, the more desirable you make yourself as a recruit. Every coach is looking for strong students who can also play to put through the admissions process.

(2) Make certain that you're playing on the best summer/fall team available to you in terms of exposure to college recruiters. Show them that you can succeed consistently against top level batters.

(3) Pick one or two showcase events that tend to attract recruiters from the programs that are high on your list and make sure that you attend them when you're in good pitching shape.

(4) Make sure that recruiters who are meaningful to you know of your interest in them. Write them a personalized note, attaching your game/showcase schedule and an information sheet about yourself.

Do all of those things consistently and you'll put yourself in the best possible position to be recruited by programs of interest to you.

Best of luck to you!

Provi,

My son is an '07 lefty about 6'6". We had a recruiter in a couple weeks ago from a "big time" college. His exact words were, "Righties have to prove they can pitch, lefties have to prove they can't."
Get to some of the right showcases next summer, keep working hard and good things will happen.
Good Luck

One thing I will add is that you have to be pro active to set yourself apart. Going to show cases is great but you can get buried by trying to stand out when their are a lot of strong pitchers at the showcase. Very easy to get over looked in a small window of opportunity.
Pick some schools,and send emails and videos but make sure you follow up by phone and don't get to the point of bothering the coach.

quote:

Originally posted by SeedThrower:
We had a recruiter in a couple weeks ago from a "big time" college. His exact words were, "Righties have to prove they can pitch, lefties have to prove they can't."

The same can be said for tall kids. Or kids throwing in the mid-90's.

The title of this thread was "pitching velocity necessary to succeed in college". You don't have to have a lot of velocity to succeed, if you are truly a pitcher (as opposed to a thrower). But unfortunately, there are limits as to how much velocity you need in order to be given the opportunity to succeed.

I think PC has received some great input. He will just have to keep working hard. Sharpening his mechanics. Gaining strength & endurance. And whatever comes from that will come.

My son is an 07 LHP. Roughly the same size too. It has been a learning experience. Start working on core strength and long toss. Start now. D1's want you at 85 for a LHP. They talk about movement but they judge by the gun. My son has curves that will just buckle batters but they don't care unless you are at 84-85 or above. They want you cruising at that speed too, not just touch it. They also will want you to maintain that speed through a few innings. They really don't care how fast you run either. If you start now you can get there without too much trouble. Showcases etc are pretty much a waste until you have the velocity. Lefties are rare so that helps you. I wouldn't worry too much. Just do long toss and get a good core strength program and your velocity should jump. Get the velocity then start showcases and email coaches where you will be pitching, attend camps etc.

My viewpoint on this for whatever it may worth is this:

First of all there not a boatload of kids throwing 88 to 94 much less over 94---the majority of the kids in the 92 and up range will be drafted so we can pretty much take them out of the formula

If you can find kid throwing in the 78 to 85 range and they can "pitch' they will succeed at the college level---there also many arms throwing in the mid 70's who succeed in college

Also the point was made above in a post that a 75 MPH arm today in two years may be a 80 MPH arm


Another aspect is that a 75/78 arm that can pitch can be very effective at the college level if used in conjunction mid 80's arms on the staff


For us we would rather have a "pitcher' than a "thrower" --sure we like velocity but if the velocity does not come with control, movement and location what good is it


Just my thoughts

quote:

Originally posted by Baller26:
They talk about movement but they judge by the gun.

That sure seems to be the case, doesn't it?

I agree with TR.
I also think that regardless of speed Pitcher Instincts are very importanat. Does the pitcher react without hesitation. Does he know his cuts and which bag to cover under different circumstances.
I was watching a Pro game the other day and a reliever came in with a nice lead and blew it. He was late covering 1st because he stood there watching the play unfold. The play would have got him out of what became a disasterous inning and earned him a loss.
Lots of pitchers in D1 don't break 80 and lots do. If you can pitch and throw high 80+ you probably will get drafted. If you throw 85+ you probably will get more opportunity to show you can pitch at any level.

I'll add that you should be sure to get solid instruction. My son's greatest increases have come with of course growth but also with minor changes in his delivery.

quote:

Lots of pitchers in D1 don't break 80 and lots do.

Bobblehead, I have watched quite a bit of DI ball on the West Coast. To be honest, I don't recall very many pitchers, if any, with a velocity below 80. I have also watched a lot of DIII baseball. At the better programs, there were lefties below 80, but not in abundance. Most of those were situational pitchers because the second time through the order, they could run into some difficulty.
I think the advice being given here is great. Work as hard as you can to get stronger and better. With that type of motivation and effort, and the demonstrated ability to pitch, you will find colleges receptive.
With regard to the other question about DI vs DII, there isn't a reliable answer. The better DII's will often have stronger pitching than mid/lower DI programs.
At times, baseball recruiting can seem pretty darn nebulous and that is because it often is. Try and control what you can by getting stronger and better and keeping strong academics. With some increase in velocity, the other two combined will give you good options to pitch in college.

IFD,

Celtic; My son is a fifteen year old 08 LHP with the same numbers. He has been told by recruiters that he projects to be a low Division 1 or high division 2 pitcher, if he continues to progress and stays healthy. He was also told that good grades are also essential to getting into college baseball.

My suggestion is you also consider your ability to afford tuition. From what I have read, full scholarships are very rare. Talk to your parents. If they are like me and have several kids to help get through college, going to a good Juco for the first two years may be the best ansewer for your particular situation. If tuition money in not a problem, be very grateful.

quote:

To be honest, I don't recall very many pitchers, if any, with a velocity below 80. I have also watched a lot of DIII baseball. At the better programs, there were lefties below 80, but not in abundance. Most of those were situational pitchers because the second time through the order, they could run into some difficulty.

I have to agree with infielddad on the above. Also agree with the rest of his post!

I'm sure there are some DI pitchers who don't throw 80, but they are extremely rare! I think pitchers who throw below 80 mph should understand what their chances are without further improvement.

Once again, here is good advice IMO.

From infielddad

quote:

At times, baseball recruiting can seem pretty darn nebulous and that is because it often is. Try and control what you can by getting stronger and better and keeping strong academics. With some increase in velocity, the other two combined will give you good options to pitch in college.

If you want to play D1 ball, general rule is for LHP 85-88 and for RHP 87-90.

Most coaches will tell you they want guys that throw strikes and get guys out. However, the caveat is that this is true if they throw hard. They look at all the other "stuff" (ERA, K/BB, etc...), but the gun still rules. Most coaches we have talked to take the attitude that they can teach control, but they can't teach 90. They are always exceptions (Simmons?? the kid at UT a few years ago), but it is a hard row to hoe if you don't have the mph.

If you are throwing in the 70's and you can get guys out, you may want to look at D3. I think even at the D2 level, you're going to see gas.

quote:

If you want to play D1 ball, general rule is for LHP 85-88 and for RHP 87-90.

BigDawg,

I know you said general rule, but I still disagree. Now if you said that was for starting pitchers I might go along, but I've seen numerous DI's (yes even some of the upper echelon ) that had a many pitchers in the 82-89 range. You can play DI throwing mid 80's.

BTW, I totally agree with infielddad.

If we're going to talk about D1, we have to talk about what level of D1. Top program? Or at the bottom of the barrel. Makes a great deal of difference.

Infield dad hit it on the button. Texan also. The low to mid 80s kids who have proven they know how to pitch can get a shot at a low to mid level D1 with the right connections. Not much chance at a top D1.

The pitchers from our school who have ended up at top D1 programs were all hitting 90+, although one may not have gotten there until after going to a JC. The 90+ kids from our league typically end up at top D1s. The low to mid-80s but very effective ones typically up at mid level D1 or below.

The question becomes why does it have to be a D1? Kid out of our local D3 is 3-3 in the bigs so far after a late season call up and he was a low to mid 90s type by the time he finished his junior season at the D3.

You don't have to give up on your dream of playing at a D1. Keep working hard for that goal. At the same time keep your options open as far as D2 or D3 or even going to a JC along the way to D1.

One point where I'd disagree is that I don't think there are "many" mid 70s throwers succeeding in college baseball although there are certainly a few, especially at the NAIA or D3 level. Most mid 70s throwers don't do very well against good HS teams for more than an inning or two.

College baseball rosters are very results oriented. There are general rules of thumb...broken very often. There are two righties I know of successful at the highest levels of college baseball that work in the very low 80's....and a high 90's rightie who threw very little in college due to control issues that continue, on a larger scale today in pro baseball.

Talent and hard work can lead to a little success, which is usually rewarded with additional opportunity.

This is a great topic! It also hits me where I live, my son is this pitcher at this stage in his life. (HS senior) I don't know what it takes velocity wise to pitch in college yet , hopefully I will soon find out. That said there is a lot of good information in this thread. Texan hits the nail on the head.
Quote "The title of this thread was "pitching velocity necessary to succeed in college". You don't have to have a lot of velocity to succeed, if you are truly a pitcher (as opposed to a thrower). But unfortunately, there are limits as to how much velocity you need in order to be given the opportunity to succeed. "

Very hard to get a chance , even in high school if you don't have a lot of velocity. Being a lefty is a huge advantage , although I 'm not really sure why, good hitters seem to hit no matter which side the pitcher throws from.
The secret to this seems to be the phrase that seems to be missed alot " knowing how to pitch "
not just how to throw. Changing speeds and location and keeping the ball down in the zone and also pitch selection helps if you are down on velocity. ( a good catcher can be a great asset to this kind of pitcher) The secret is to get the hitter to hit the ball where you want it hit , not where he wants to hit it.
I witnessed a hard throwing (high 80's to low 90's ) LHP from a big southern D1 school walk or hit 11 batters in a game . Do you think he won the game? The one play in baseball you cannot defend against is the walk. If you can throw a baseball at warp speed but can't throw it for a strike when you need to what good is velocity?
Ted Williams once said that if you could shoot a baseball out of a cannon as long as it was coming at him straight ( little or no movement) he could hit it.
TR , I pray every night that what you say is possible . (selfish here I guess)
Facts as I know them are this:
1.) Academics are as important (or more) than baseball skills to college coaches.If you are a good student and baseball player your chances are much better.
2.) Regardless of what they say coaches love the gun.
3.) Left handed is better than right handed ( again I'm not quite sure why) and if you are left handed and a hard thrower then somehow you must be directly decended from God.
4.) The guy who throws with less velocity but with great control and doesn't walk anybody will get more ground ball and fly ball outs and thus will throw less pitches per inning and generally can go deeper in the game and seems to recover better to throw more often.
5.) There are guys in the majors who don't throw that hard but have great control and are doing quite well in the majors. ( Anyone know a guy named MADDOX?)

Just my humble opinions and observations , no great wisdom or knowledge here!

achance,
IMO, great post.

In the past two years, one thing that has stood out, lots of soft tossing lefties (low 80's) in smaller to mid D1 programs doing very well against power hitters from power programs.

quote:

and if you are left handed and a hard thrower then somehow you must be directly decended from God.

Haha

My son is a senior in high school. A 6'1''lefty and 165 pounds. His fastball tops at 87 and he is consistant in 85-86. The best thing he ever did was take professional pitching lessons. The coach fine tuned his delivery, taught him to think like a pitcher, developed 4 pitches he could throw for strikes, and give him self confidence. It was expensive, just like the travel ball , all the tournaments, hotels, and long rides. What I would advise is to develop strong work habits, play the toughest competition you can find,and believe in yourself. You gotta want it more than anything else! All of the above paid off this past Sunday when my son was offered a "full ride" baseball scholarship to play at the college he hoped for! Best of luck!

"full ride"---please describe

Its probably worth noting that several pitchers that performed very well in the college world series were throwing in the mid eighties. They were able to effectively change speeds and get great movement on the ball.

quote:

If you are throwing in the 70's and you can get guys out, you may want to look at D3. I think even at the D2 level, you're going to see gas

BigDawg, I am not sure how familiar you are with DII and DIII baseball. My son was a teammate this year with two drafted from very high quality DII programs. One is 84-86, occasionally touching 87-88 and was the number one guy on a team that played for the DII national championship. The other is 81-82, maximum, throws a lot of pitches and is very crafty. Seems like he is always pitching out of the stretch, but he is also one of those guys that has hitters in the dugout wondering why they are 1-5 instead of 5-5.
At the top DIII level, as I said before, throwing in the 70's isn't likely to get many innings. As an illustration, there is a very good DIII not far from you. The top 6 pitchers last year had velocities that ranged from 84 on the low side to 91 on the high. The kid at 91 could touch 93.
On the other hand, there are plenty of DII and DIII programs where a lefty throwing 77-79 will get quality innings and have a great college experience.
However, for our original poster, Provi, there is every reason to think his velocity will increase from where it is now. At 82 mph and above, a lefty can get can find a slot and play some pretty darn good college baseball.

DG,
This goes back to what it takes for success vs. what it takes to get an opportunity. You'll see a lot of pitchers at the AAA level in pro ball throwing in the mid eighties. I'm guessing that almost every one of them was able to throw high eighties or low 90s when they were drafted. Pitchers are going to have more success at the higher levels locating in the mid 80s than they are just getting the ball over at 90.

Pros and college both want kids who can throw hard because they can still have decent velocity once they teach them to back off and pitch rather than just throw hard. Remember, as good as Maddux is now he was much better when he threw a bit harder and he was able to throw low 90s out of HS.

Frank-

I agree with your post. I thought we were saying the same thing. Mid-80's is the min (as a general rule), not 79-82 regardless of which side you throw it from.

IF Dad-

If you reread my post, all I said said was that if this kid is throwing in the 70's with command and control, he may get a look a thte D3 level. The lower you go, the better chance the kid will have to play, but certainly, even at the D2 or D3 levels, they still have guys throwing gas, just not as many as D1.

His original question was about DI. I don't think it is realistic even at 81-82 (as a general rule even if you're a LHP) you will get any serious looks at the mid-top DI level. This isn't to say the kid couldn't get there. It's just stacked against him.

Velocity still rules the evaluation. If you look at the recent Area Code tryouts (at least in Texas), they culled the pitchers based on velocity. If you didn't touch 90, you probably didn't make the scrimmage round. I think there were 1 or 2 that were mid-upper 80's that got through that round, but they were LHP and didn't make the final cut. No points were given for command and control.

Hopefully in a few months I will know how important (A)academics and (B)being a LHP are in regards to being recruited. My son is is a LHP who throws mid 80's with (Ive been told) an outstanding changeup and very good curveball. Throws all three for strikes. He is 6'0 160 senior who will be the ace of the staff this upcoming year. Last year as a junior and #2 guy he threw 59 innings, 70 k's,12 walks, 56 hits and a ERA of 2.51.

Academically he is ranked #1 in his class with a GPA of 4.59 on 4.0 scale. We play for a Texas 4A school, so the competition is pretty good.
I only say this because (I'm proud) but we have not talked to any college scouts and our mailbox is not overflowing with letters. My son has sent out a few letters, but has not had much response. I do know that it hurts that he goes to summer school for college dual credit instead of playing top quality baseball. He also holds down a job. I'm sure the No Showcases attended on his resume hurts as well. This Fall we had a strong Texas Showcase team pick him up to travel with them to hopefully get some folks to see him. We are also hoping that his high school coach puts in a few good words for him as well.

Again, in a few months, I will let you know if good grades and LHP are a good combo in the eyes of a college coach.

That is a great combo but you have to be more pro active. Think of all the stud players that are out there trying to get an offer. If you sit back he might get passed by.
Pick several schools that he would like and start a campaign to send info to. DVD ,showcases are great ways to get interest. I have seen several great ball players get overlooked because they sat back and waited for coaches to knock on the door. Many coaches couldn't careless about stats. Most are interested in the level of competition.

Thanks BobbleheadDoll,

We have become more active and have our first Showcases in the DFW metroplex this and next weekend. Following those, we head to Texas A&M and then Baylor with UT to follow. Hopefully, if it is meant to be, he will attract some interest from some schools. Not those huge D1 powerhouses, but someone who might be in attendance that both academically and athletically my son is what they are looking for, and is also a school my son can succeed both on the field and in the classroom.

Theygrowupfast:

It's also not too late for your son to do a showcase. As one example, Perfect Game's WWBA 18u tournamnet is an outstanding event for being noticed. As a LHP, your son could probably get linked up with an ongoing team -- everybody always needs more pitching for these things. But if that doesn't pan out, PG will assign your son to a PG pick-up team for the tourney (for a fee, of course).

He'll miss a few days of school, but it sounds like he's strong enough academically to handle it!

In the worst case, you'll spend that last weekend in October playing baseball in sunny Jupiter, FL. Now I ask you, what else would you rather do with that weekend?

Midlo Dad,

The showcase team my son will be playing for this
Fall (DBAT) is scheduled to play in the PG/WWBA Showcase in Jupiter FL Oct. 27-30. That is the last showcase on our schedule.

Thanks MD.

theygrowupfast- the PG event in Jupiter isn't a showcase, its a tournament, the one Midlo Dad was talking about. It's one of the premiere events put on, and there will be tons of scouts roaming the complex the entire (long) weekend