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As the father of a high school pitcher, I'm interested in your opinions on this issue. Thank you.
i think they should the argument with would bats is that they may break and hurt someone, but off of a metal bat the ball comes at almost twice the speed than that of a wood bat, being a pitcher myself i would much rather have the bat come at me rather than the ball.
During my sophomore year of college our league only allowed wood bats. During non-conference play we used metal, but every game in conference was played with wood, including the conference tournament.
It was a difficult adjustment as a hitter, especially in early March when snow was falling and the temperature was freezing!
We still hit the ball well, including a high team BA and led the league in home runs. When we played out of conference we mashed, including sweeping the NCAA regionals and dropping 17 runs in game 1 of the D2 World Series.
So the wood bats made us all better hitters.
The games flew by typically taking around 2 hours for a 9 inning game.
It was a great experience (maybe not at the time as a hitter) and it certainly made us all better ball players.
I am all for it, but the metal bat companies have tremendous lobbying power.
It was a difficult adjustment as a hitter, especially in early March when snow was falling and the temperature was freezing!
We still hit the ball well, including a high team BA and led the league in home runs. When we played out of conference we mashed, including sweeping the NCAA regionals and dropping 17 runs in game 1 of the D2 World Series.
So the wood bats made us all better hitters.
The games flew by typically taking around 2 hours for a 9 inning game.
It was a great experience (maybe not at the time as a hitter) and it certainly made us all better ball players.
I am all for it, but the metal bat companies have tremendous lobbying power.
Our high school league is using wood this year. A pitcher got hit in the face last year and they're trying to avoid that again. It'll be a tough spring for hitters, but we'll mash during the summer when we go back to metal.
Jon Doyle,
Was it your experience that there were more line drives with wood compared to metal? That is what I've heard.
Was it your experience that there were more line drives with wood compared to metal? That is what I've heard.
I wouldn't hazard a guess about the incidence of line drives between the two; but, it's indisputable that the ball's exit velocity is higher off of metal. Higher exit velocity translates into greater risk to pitchers and, to a somewhat lesser extent, players at the corners.
Beyond that, it becomes a different game when metal bats are put in the hands of college players. There are WAY too many bloop singles hit off the handle that fly barely over infielders' heads, line drive home runs, etc.
There's a reason why the best summer leagues play with wood. The professional's game is the way it should be played at that age and talent level.
How or when will it change, you might ask? The answer is "never."
To find the reason, all you have to do is pick up a copy of a major baseball publication and see a bat company's full page ad, touting its metal bats in use at an impressive list of college baseball programs. The cash and/or equipment that the bat companies provide in return for the endorsement is too important to the universities involved. Since the bat companies can't look to the pros for endorsements of their metal bats, they're required to turn to the colleges by default.
Beyond that, it becomes a different game when metal bats are put in the hands of college players. There are WAY too many bloop singles hit off the handle that fly barely over infielders' heads, line drive home runs, etc.
There's a reason why the best summer leagues play with wood. The professional's game is the way it should be played at that age and talent level.
How or when will it change, you might ask? The answer is "never."
To find the reason, all you have to do is pick up a copy of a major baseball publication and see a bat company's full page ad, touting its metal bats in use at an impressive list of college baseball programs. The cash and/or equipment that the bat companies provide in return for the endorsement is too important to the universities involved. Since the bat companies can't look to the pros for endorsements of their metal bats, they're required to turn to the colleges by default.
I agree with Prepster --wood will never happen in collge
Our travel team plays wood as often as we can because we simply like playing with it
College coaches want to see aluminum because that is what they play with
Our travel team plays wood as often as we can because we simply like playing with it
College coaches want to see aluminum because that is what they play with
I agree with you Prepster...the reason for metal over wood is all about money and marketing...not about history or nostalgia...certainly not about safety...that is a shame.
And we all know the value of shame these days...the exact opposite of the MasterCard commercials...worthless.
And we all know the value of shame these days...the exact opposite of the MasterCard commercials...worthless.
I think what needs to happen is MLB stepping in and underwriting the college programs with wood bat money, at least for a start up period. The NCAA could mandate the change to wood, but only if the member schools could afford it. I still don't quite understand the argument that the big bat companies will cease to thrive. They are surely making decent profits off of wood bat sales right now.
I hope this topic sparks a few of you HSBBWebsters to take action. We could write a letter to the NCAA. If nothing else, keep the debate alive and maybe someday our grand kids will reap the benefits.
The National Collegiate Athletic Association
700 W. Washington Street
P.O. Box 6222
Indianapolis, Indiana 46206-6222
Here's a link to e-mail the NCAA Public RelationsStaff.
http://www.ncaa.org/cgi-bin/staffmailform2.pl?id=pmr@nc...CAA+Public+Relations
I hope this topic sparks a few of you HSBBWebsters to take action. We could write a letter to the NCAA. If nothing else, keep the debate alive and maybe someday our grand kids will reap the benefits.
The National Collegiate Athletic Association
700 W. Washington Street
P.O. Box 6222
Indianapolis, Indiana 46206-6222
Here's a link to e-mail the NCAA Public RelationsStaff.
http://www.ncaa.org/cgi-bin/staffmailform2.pl?id=pmr@nc...CAA+Public+Relations
Thanks for the link spizzle...I'm going to contact them.
Baseball is the type of sport where arguments can be made to change by going back instead of forward...our efforts would not necessarily fall on deaf ears.
Baseball is the type of sport where arguments can be made to change by going back instead of forward...our efforts would not necessarily fall on deaf ears.
As a traditionalist (most umires are) I would love to see the return to wood from college and youth baseball...the games are better and I will never feel the same way about a "ping" and I do about the "crack of the bat"....
That being said....it will never happen....
To us baseball is a sport, a pastime.....to those in control its a business.....Business dictates doing whats best for the bottom line...
To expect MLB to get involved with subsidizing non-pro baseball is not realistic in my opinion.... You will see some leagues change but on the whole I'm afraid Metal is here to stay.....
That being said....it will never happen....
To us baseball is a sport, a pastime.....to those in control its a business.....Business dictates doing whats best for the bottom line...
To expect MLB to get involved with subsidizing non-pro baseball is not realistic in my opinion.... You will see some leagues change but on the whole I'm afraid Metal is here to stay.....
There was certainly not more lines drives with wood than with metal. However, I saw some of weirdest swings/hits with wood. That is what happens when you take kids who had only used metal bats in game play (most of us were using wood in practice for a number of years at that point)and throw lumber in their hands.
My average dropped significantly down to 309 I believe and I still would prefer wood. There were no 4 hour, 21-19 games with wood that year.
My average dropped significantly down to 309 I believe and I still would prefer wood. There were no 4 hour, 21-19 games with wood that year.
As a rule batting averages will drop when you are required to use wood.
Does your comment mean you learned "how to hit"
with wood and that made you a better hitter?
** Bum - The Northeast10 conference is all wood.
quote:So the wood bats made us all better hitters
Does your comment mean you learned "how to hit"
with wood and that made you a better hitter?
** Bum - The Northeast10 conference is all wood.
If Wooden bats won't happen, how about changing the BESR formula - perhaps take 10% off of the allowed exit speed. After all, the original idea of BESR was to take some zip out of the bats and return the game more to a balance between pitcher and hitter.
If they got it right, wood vs metal would be a preference not a performance advantage. I'd love to see metal reduced to the point where it became a tough choice for hitters - and we saw some of each in a game...
If they got it right, wood vs metal would be a preference not a performance advantage. I'd love to see metal reduced to the point where it became a tough choice for hitters - and we saw some of each in a game...
Chill,
I think it did a bit of both. Yes, we certainly learned to hit with wood.
But I also believe if wood bats are used certain mechanical flaws wokr themselves out to a certain extent. More solid contact, more consistant contact, improved path to the ball and a longer extension through the ball are some of the techniques that improved in my experiences.
Then when the metal bats were put back into out hands we really put a beating on the ball. Maybe that was all confidence. Who knows.
I think it did a bit of both. Yes, we certainly learned to hit with wood.
But I also believe if wood bats are used certain mechanical flaws wokr themselves out to a certain extent. More solid contact, more consistant contact, improved path to the ball and a longer extension through the ball are some of the techniques that improved in my experiences.
Then when the metal bats were put back into out hands we really put a beating on the ball. Maybe that was all confidence. Who knows.
Here's one to think about. A maple bat costs about $59 for a college player who will use maybe 5 bats in a season due to breakage and wear. Cost equals $295. A good alum college bat runs $275-300. The wood bat costs more to produce as a percentage of sales price. The alum bats have a much larger profit margin compared with cost to produce. Ncaa loves the hype and long ball offense that comes with the alum. It will probably never change.
Coachric-
Exactly. Chicks dig the long ball....and even more importantly, Bat Co.s love their profit margin on metal. That's why bat makers have deals with many top college programs, because they can afford to give 'em away. But do they need to?
What if Bat Co.s cut their marketing and R&D expenses out of neccesity? Couldn't college programs make some minor budget modifications? ($295 x 18 position players = about $5300 per year if we use Coachric's figures). Bottom line for Bat Co.s is the same!
I think college programs would find a way to get it done, MLB could just make it easy. I can see it working out for all parties. Bat Co.s get their profit, pitchers get the inside of the plate back, hitters get their dignity back, and we can all reclaim our college game.
Aluminum is for beer cans and leftovers. Let the adult t-ballers use metal. MLB is the model, and last time I checked they still use wood. Why can't the rest of baseball do the same?
Exactly. Chicks dig the long ball....and even more importantly, Bat Co.s love their profit margin on metal. That's why bat makers have deals with many top college programs, because they can afford to give 'em away. But do they need to?
What if Bat Co.s cut their marketing and R&D expenses out of neccesity? Couldn't college programs make some minor budget modifications? ($295 x 18 position players = about $5300 per year if we use Coachric's figures). Bottom line for Bat Co.s is the same!
I think college programs would find a way to get it done, MLB could just make it easy. I can see it working out for all parties. Bat Co.s get their profit, pitchers get the inside of the plate back, hitters get their dignity back, and we can all reclaim our college game.
Aluminum is for beer cans and leftovers. Let the adult t-ballers use metal. MLB is the model, and last time I checked they still use wood. Why can't the rest of baseball do the same?
Let me say this about maple bats, if I may:
We get roughly 24 a year for our team and showcases---if 5 break that is a lot and the company replaces them rapidly--- colleges could do it--but it won't happen because the margin of profit and the high offensive numbers are too good
OH and by the way--chicks dont dig the long ball--they dig the good looking baseball players who have smarts as well
Another aspect to consider-- if everyone goes to wood will there be enough wood to go around to meet the needs
For me there is nothing like baseball played with wood which is why our Warwick Tournament is wood and we get games done in under 2 hours and it is great baseball.
We get roughly 24 a year for our team and showcases---if 5 break that is a lot and the company replaces them rapidly--- colleges could do it--but it won't happen because the margin of profit and the high offensive numbers are too good
OH and by the way--chicks dont dig the long ball--they dig the good looking baseball players who have smarts as well
Another aspect to consider-- if everyone goes to wood will there be enough wood to go around to meet the needs
For me there is nothing like baseball played with wood which is why our Warwick Tournament is wood and we get games done in under 2 hours and it is great baseball.
Son prefers to hit with wood......in high school he hit in games with the metal, but practiced with the wood.....and then played wood summer teams....we found it more expensive to keep up with the wood bats.....
Arizona JuCo's are all wood......a start?
Arizona JuCo's are all wood......a start?
Another factor regarding wood bats--the hitter has to learn how to hit with them--learn the correct handling of the bat and they won't be breaking
Son knows how to hit....and the wood bats kept breaking.....we think leaving them out in his closed up car, all summer long, in Southern Arizona had something to do with their quick demise.....it will be interesting to see if they have a longer life span this summer in SoCal.....
quote:Originally posted by 08Dad:
If Wooden bats won't happen, how about changing the BESR formula....
I had a similar thought. If one of the major arguments against moving to wood is the replacement cost (especially for high schools and some college programs), then, given sufficient pressures (NCAA, public outcry, etc.), why could the bat makers not produce a metal bat with the performance level of wood? Certainly they have the technology.
Granted the offensive production would change but that's not all bad as others have mentioned.
Things that make you go hummm....
It sure is nice to see the results (so far) of this poll. Speaks volumes about HSBBW members.
Thanks, for starting the poll "Bum"!
Thanks, for starting the poll "Bum"!
Empire JC Conference in CO and KS is all wood, though they revert to metal for regionals and beyond.
One more thing...
If college and LL were to go to wood, it would take less than ten years to rid the baseball world of that horrible ping, and most seem to agree would be a good thing. Thanks for the poll Bum. Lets keep the debate alive.
One more thing...
If college and LL were to go to wood, it would take less than ten years to rid the baseball world of that horrible ping, and most seem to agree would be a good thing. Thanks for the poll Bum. Lets keep the debate alive.
Thanks to everyone..
Just last year my kid took a wicked line shot at his head. We were taping and even in slo-mo for the life of me I can't see how he got that glove up in time. If it were against a college hitter he would have been seriously injured or worse.
A few years back a kid in Montana died in a legion game from a comebacker off a metal bet. Scary stuff, but what do you do as a parent? I don't dare mention the risk to my kid as it might change his mental focus and pitching mechanics and do more harm than good..
I can almost understand metal bats in high school, as there can be legitimate cost issues, but in college it seems dangerous and unnecessary. I would also think MLB would get a better idea of their "investment" by looking at kids swinging the real deal.
Some here have pointed out that there are really no longer cost savings with non-wood. I just bought a $300 bat for my son for high school play this year, and I'm sure he'll be one-upped next year by a teammate with a $400 bat. (And we wonder why baseball is having a hard time attracting innercity youth?)
Maybe some of you bright HSBBW guys could form a lobby. Thanks for the input.
BUM
Just last year my kid took a wicked line shot at his head. We were taping and even in slo-mo for the life of me I can't see how he got that glove up in time. If it were against a college hitter he would have been seriously injured or worse.
A few years back a kid in Montana died in a legion game from a comebacker off a metal bet. Scary stuff, but what do you do as a parent? I don't dare mention the risk to my kid as it might change his mental focus and pitching mechanics and do more harm than good..
I can almost understand metal bats in high school, as there can be legitimate cost issues, but in college it seems dangerous and unnecessary. I would also think MLB would get a better idea of their "investment" by looking at kids swinging the real deal.
Some here have pointed out that there are really no longer cost savings with non-wood. I just bought a $300 bat for my son for high school play this year, and I'm sure he'll be one-upped next year by a teammate with a $400 bat. (And we wonder why baseball is having a hard time attracting innercity youth?)
Maybe some of you bright HSBBW guys could form a lobby. Thanks for the input.
BUM
bum- a lot of people can try, but I agree it will never work.
I'm 15 and during the summer we used wood and i loved it. You get some guys 6'3", 230 at 17 years old and benching twice your body weight someone is going to get hurt. I can see the argument "a line drive is a line drive", but let the game be pure. The best hitters aren't going to have any issue adjusting to wood. I pitched against Pedro Alvarez over the summer, a Red Sox draft pick and current Vanderbilt infielder. Pedro is 6'2" about 218 he said. We were playing at the University of Delaware if anyone is familiar with the field. With a wood bat he cleared a 12 ft. fence some 380 ft. away in left center, over a row of trees and into a s****r goal probably another 75-80 feet back (luckily it was off of a reliever, not me
). After seeing a high school baseball player hit the ball that hard, that far with that sort of brute strength, I cannot argue that metal bats should be allowed at the college level, because they are all that strong
I'm 15 and during the summer we used wood and i loved it. You get some guys 6'3", 230 at 17 years old and benching twice your body weight someone is going to get hurt. I can see the argument "a line drive is a line drive", but let the game be pure. The best hitters aren't going to have any issue adjusting to wood. I pitched against Pedro Alvarez over the summer, a Red Sox draft pick and current Vanderbilt infielder. Pedro is 6'2" about 218 he said. We were playing at the University of Delaware if anyone is familiar with the field. With a wood bat he cleared a 12 ft. fence some 380 ft. away in left center, over a row of trees and into a s****r goal probably another 75-80 feet back (luckily it was off of a reliever, not me
). After seeing a high school baseball player hit the ball that hard, that far with that sort of brute strength, I cannot argue that metal bats should be allowed at the college level, because they are all that strong
J H, sounds like you're a good player. I've heard the pitch that is most likely to be a comebacker is low and away.
Good luck and stay safe.
Good luck and stay safe.
My son's JUCO league used wood bats and the games were much more interesting to watch. 2-1, 3-2 etc. Very rarely was there a blowout. He is now playing D1 and had to learn to not pitch inside on metal bats. I think it will take a televised game with a death to get rid of the f***ing metal bats. The scouts hate them as well. A couple of years ago I spoke with a Padres scout who was on his way to see a player with a lot of homeruns, the player was not drafted, must have been the metal bat.
bum- I'm alright, I can hold my own but there's still a lot to work on.
I agree the pitch to come back most is low and away. I actually find most fastballs I throw don't come back, but the changeups do. If my changeup isn't on and the batter can sit back, it can be pretty scary seeing a ball coming at you 125 mph from 60 feet away.
I agree the pitch to come back most is low and away. I actually find most fastballs I throw don't come back, but the changeups do. If my changeup isn't on and the batter can sit back, it can be pretty scary seeing a ball coming at you 125 mph from 60 feet away.
I'm all for wood in college and HS too. It was good enough for me, and today's kids are no better than me (well, talent-wise they are, but you know what I mean).
My son is 16, a HS Junior, 6' tall and 175 lbs. He hit a ball in a game last week with a metal bat WAY BELOW the sweet spot and it hit the base of the wall in LF 340 feet away. With wood it would have been a routine fly out.
A nearby JUCO pitcher is pitching his SOPH year this year with one eye.
Another friend's son got hit in the face twice in HS while on the mound. He was one of the better pitchers in the state. He is currently in college and GLAD he doesn't pitch any more. In fact, he lost interest in even playing. Is it any wonder?
My son also pitches, and I cringe every time he's on the mound.
My son is 16, a HS Junior, 6' tall and 175 lbs. He hit a ball in a game last week with a metal bat WAY BELOW the sweet spot and it hit the base of the wall in LF 340 feet away. With wood it would have been a routine fly out.
A nearby JUCO pitcher is pitching his SOPH year this year with one eye.
Another friend's son got hit in the face twice in HS while on the mound. He was one of the better pitchers in the state. He is currently in college and GLAD he doesn't pitch any more. In fact, he lost interest in even playing. Is it any wonder?
My son also pitches, and I cringe every time he's on the mound.
After seeing in person a High School Senior pitcher take a line drive to the head off a metal bat, I'm for wood in High School & College. I was sitting right behind home plate and its one of the worst things I have ever witnessed, he ended up OK after a few days in the hospital but who knows if that pitcher will ever be the same on the mound after that incident.