Not criticising all of them, i don't paint with a broad brush. I am simply stating there's some good one's and some bad ones that do nothing to help the kids. Especially at the lower levels and I further stated a reason behind this is because they won't go outside the district to hire candidates. Those are facts, not necessarily criticism.
There's kids that haven't played in HS because they think their coaches aren't good enough. I definitely don't agree with that angle but it's reality.
Coach Steely,
LHP are a total different situation. And your point is the same as mine. You seen that they projected to pitch higher in the future. Maybe I should make my points with more explanation and not be so cut and dry. But the ultimate point is velocity matters at the bigger programs, they aren't likely to recreut you if your going to be a Right that will throw 82-84 for 4 years. I'd say that's a safe thing to say.
LHP are a total different situation. And your point is the same as mine. You seen that they projected to pitch higher in the future. Maybe I should make my points with more explanation and not be so cut and dry. But the ultimate point is velocity matters at the bigger programs, they aren't likely to recreut you if your going to be a Right that will throw 82-84 for 4 years. I'd say that's a safe thing to say.
Are you going to tell me your background?
Not tonight, maybe I'll PM you with it. I just think if things I am saying are true and accurate what does it matter. Too many people think if a guy played pro ball that he knows more than someone that didn't. I don't want a resume to be the reason someone agree's or disagree's with me, i rather it be about facts and knowledge. Does that make sense, not trying to offend anyone.
Nails,
Whether you believe you are truth and accurate does not objectively make any statement you say or post true or accurate.
The statement about someone with playing experience knowing more than someone who lacks it, I believe is accurate, but from the coaching side I do not believe on a whole that it is accurate.
Your resume does not define you as a coach or a person of knowledge of the game but does lend a little bit more credibility to the content being laid out.
If you are not trying to offend anyone and are so concerned with that, why do you make such definitive statements about college ball or pitching or recruiting. There are many of your posts in here that do not offer your opinions but yet you offer them up as statements of absolute fact.
My feelings are that if you are going to do that, what is sitting on your resume or what are your experiences that have led you to have the audacity to lay it out in such a way.
Either you have the experiences and can offer valid help and critical thinking or you are just a pot stirrer and trouble maker that slams out posts in order to raise attention to yourself.
So please tell us all why you are the former and not the latter.
If you cant, please stop posting. All you do is add tension and wasted time on here to people that generally love baseball and want to draw from other coach's and parent's experiences.
Whether you believe you are truth and accurate does not objectively make any statement you say or post true or accurate.
The statement about someone with playing experience knowing more than someone who lacks it, I believe is accurate, but from the coaching side I do not believe on a whole that it is accurate.
Your resume does not define you as a coach or a person of knowledge of the game but does lend a little bit more credibility to the content being laid out.
If you are not trying to offend anyone and are so concerned with that, why do you make such definitive statements about college ball or pitching or recruiting. There are many of your posts in here that do not offer your opinions but yet you offer them up as statements of absolute fact.
My feelings are that if you are going to do that, what is sitting on your resume or what are your experiences that have led you to have the audacity to lay it out in such a way.
Either you have the experiences and can offer valid help and critical thinking or you are just a pot stirrer and trouble maker that slams out posts in order to raise attention to yourself.
So please tell us all why you are the former and not the latter.
If you cant, please stop posting. All you do is add tension and wasted time on here to people that generally love baseball and want to draw from other coach's and parent's experiences.
by no means am I trying to be a pot stirrer or cause controversy. Don't really know what I have said that draws that conclusion for you.
I have commented on things, given my opinion, talked about what schools look for in recreuts, etc. For everything said or done in baseball you can find the exception to every rule. So if I say that velocity matters to bigger programs I am sure you can find one or two instances where it didn't, but the majority of the cases it does.
I had a feeling people were questioning my background because that's the first thing people do when someone doesn't agree with something they believe in. I am sure you can find posts I talked about where there were very good things said, true things, stuff about players and kids and positive things. But people focus on the things that I say that they disagree with.
And I am definitely not trying to raise attention to myself and if it seems that way I apologize. I am just having conversations about baseball that pertain to the topics of the thread. I'd be happy to give insight to a player or parent about an experience or about recreuting, etc. Seems that people rather fight though than talk baseball. Let's talk about something, the thread is PBR. I stated it's not the be all end all but they do a good job, especially this year with the 2009 class. Then more comments were made.
I have commented on things, given my opinion, talked about what schools look for in recreuts, etc. For everything said or done in baseball you can find the exception to every rule. So if I say that velocity matters to bigger programs I am sure you can find one or two instances where it didn't, but the majority of the cases it does.
I had a feeling people were questioning my background because that's the first thing people do when someone doesn't agree with something they believe in. I am sure you can find posts I talked about where there were very good things said, true things, stuff about players and kids and positive things. But people focus on the things that I say that they disagree with.
And I am definitely not trying to raise attention to myself and if it seems that way I apologize. I am just having conversations about baseball that pertain to the topics of the thread. I'd be happy to give insight to a player or parent about an experience or about recreuting, etc. Seems that people rather fight though than talk baseball. Let's talk about something, the thread is PBR. I stated it's not the be all end all but they do a good job, especially this year with the 2009 class. Then more comments were made.
Can you say AGENDA??? 
what agenda would that be? I guess i am still getting used to this board and what statements should be reserved for a PM and what shouldn't. Feel free to talk baseball, like I said you'll see I have alot of critical thinking posts.
Sparky,
see alot of your kids making committments to some good schools.
Sparky,
see alot of your kids making committments to some good schools.
quote:Originally posted by Nails:
by no means am I trying to be a pot stirrer or cause controversy. Don't really know what I have said that draws that conclusion for you.
I have commented on things, given my opinion, talked about what schools look for in recreuts, etc.
That statement right there. Did you offer what schools and what they look for or do you just make a comment that velocity matters?
If you feel that people are questioning your credibility, then they probably are. If they are, then it probably means you are making statements to make them question.
So regardless of what your experiences are or resume looks like, if you are having your credibility questioned, then back it up. Who cares who played where or coached where, anyone can learn anything from anybody.
But if you look back over your posts, I would be surprised if I was you that someone didnt question you earlier.
If I state that so and so school looks for velocity, then people will say that I didn't talk to that school and how can I know. Come on here, you know that D1 schools look for velocity, arm strength, projectibility, how the arm works, etc. It's unrealistic to think that if your 8-0 in high school and throw 80 mph that you'll get looks from the big schools.
I was talking about the parents or whoever that wonders why someone is offering a kid a scholarship just cause he throws hard, rather than offer it to the kid that's 8-0 and throws 80mph. Like I said, I admit my phrasing of things on here needs work but the underlining meaning is accurate.
I was talking about the parents or whoever that wonders why someone is offering a kid a scholarship just cause he throws hard, rather than offer it to the kid that's 8-0 and throws 80mph. Like I said, I admit my phrasing of things on here needs work but the underlining meaning is accurate.
Then I guess we will hope for a better change from you in the future.
Yea, I am constantly trying to make sure my points are accurate and meaningful. I think alot of things comes down to people disagreeing with something and them having an agenda behind the things they say, not me.
I'd be happy to discuss any topic with you and talk about any player, recreuting process, what colleges look for, etc. and I think you'll find that I know a little bit about what I am talkign about.
I'd be happy to discuss any topic with you and talk about any player, recreuting process, what colleges look for, etc. and I think you'll find that I know a little bit about what I am talkign about.
No not you Nails, lol... no agenda ..lol...
you are quit predictable and an easy read.
nice chatting
And by the way, I have no Kids, so the YOUR kids **** aint flying either.
you are quit predictable and an easy read.
nice chatting
And by the way, I have no Kids, so the YOUR kids **** aint flying either.
quote:Originally posted by Nails:
Yea, I am constantly trying to make sure my points are accurate and meaningful.
Nails - your posts are neither accurate nor meaningful. Do us all a favor and give it a rest.
can't even dish out a compliment without some sarcastic remark. Your players are going to some good schools.
I'm sure you have some good thoughts and comments on the PBR rankings and the magazine, too bad you don't want to comment on that and stick to the original topic of the thread.
I'm sure you have some good thoughts and comments on the PBR rankings and the magazine, too bad you don't want to comment on that and stick to the original topic of the thread.
RR, I did take a peek at the University of Illinois roster and found no quotes from PBR. If they are contained on some individual players biographies, they were undoubtedly offered up by the players themselves. And if you read my comment, "I am certain that most college coaches, especially those outside the immediate area, have no idea who or what PBR is, though most would certainly be aware of Perfect Game." you would see that I placed emphasis on out-of-the-area schools. The fact that Illinois schools may be aware of an Illinois ranking service is not unfathomable. And Nails, please tell me of the "big time" colleges you speak of that include references to PBR on their web pages. Perhaps some of them even provide a link to the ranking service or buy advertising space on PBR's site.
Nails/RR
Amazing, I mean amazing we were just talking about a couple players going to certain schools and after I told you who they were, WAM, BAM, they are on the front page of PBR?, how ironic...do you two have something to do with the publication?.
What is really strange is last year I sent two players committments to them, one to Tennessee Tech and the other to Wichita State and they didnt show up FOREVER and I had to call and say hey remember me?, I got a couple commits I sent you?, but your two get it on there in a matter of hours?, I am shocked. Thanks guys....
Amazing, I mean amazing we were just talking about a couple players going to certain schools and after I told you who they were, WAM, BAM, they are on the front page of PBR?, how ironic...do you two have something to do with the publication?.
What is really strange is last year I sent two players committments to them, one to Tennessee Tech and the other to Wichita State and they didnt show up FOREVER and I had to call and say hey remember me?, I got a couple commits I sent you?, but your two get it on there in a matter of hours?, I am shocked. Thanks guys....
quote:please tell me of the "big time" colleges you speak of that include references to PBR on their web pages.
I am not Nails, and I don't know what you consider "big time" but here is a reference by a school that many would consider "big time":
http://www.mstateathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=9...944218&Q_SEASON=2007
I don't really care one way or the other in this but here is a UI reference for PBR
http://fightingillini.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/111407aaj.html
and also NIU
http://niuhuskies.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/120507aab.html
The ones for NIU done by the staff/SID and the PBR ratings were not supplied by any parent.
http://fightingillini.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/111407aaj.html
and also NIU
http://niuhuskies.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/120507aab.html
The ones for NIU done by the staff/SID and the PBR ratings were not supplied by any parent.
Illinois, Thanks for providing the information on PBR references for the two Illinois schools you mentioned. Again, my statement was in regard to out-of-area schools and made no mention of any parent. Illinois schools, Illinois kids. And Rat, I am sure that the individual you offered in your response received offers from MANY out of the area schools who had never heard of PBR. PBR's ranking did not get this individual a scholarship at MSU.
I have a question. Although my son does pitch, why is it that we don't hear much about other position players? All we hear about velocity, height, weight, etc. Are the ratings more geared for college coaches to look at pitchers and should that be changed in some aspects to give non-pitchers the same noterity??
RRF8- You have a PM
I doubt that the bios of the player's are suppplied by the players themselves. I may be wrong, but I would think that the head recruiter for U of I compiled the info as part of his recruiting effort.
I'd also agree that Mississippi State would qualify as a big time program, and why wouldn't Conor Powers being named PBR player of the year merit some mention in his bio?
I don't understand what the big deal is about this anyway.
I'd also agree that Mississippi State would qualify as a big time program, and why wouldn't Conor Powers being named PBR player of the year merit some mention in his bio?
I don't understand what the big deal is about this anyway.
JKennedy - At no time did I say that anyone received a scholarship because of PBR. I just said that they look at it. I think others have proved that they do. I know University of Iowa quotes PBR as well. It is just another means, among many, of finding out about a player.
I think I now understand why so many heated discussions are found here. The meaning of the original post now has more twists than a pretzel. Rosy, I never said that mentioning PBR in the individual's bio was without merit, nor did I say that MSU was not a big time program. Please read my original post. I also know that a player's bio is often compiled as a part of the prospect information sheet and that info is supplied by the player to the school. The intent of my original post was to provide some perspective as to the importance of player rankings. Not to belittle any individual, school or hamburger joint. Peace.
I guess I always like people to say what they think. That doesn't mean that I agree with what they think but at least they are being themselves. In some cases saying what (and just about everything) you think comes with risk...as in maybe you are wrong. Sometimes embarrassingly so.
Still, no matter how much any of us have to say here I don't remember anyone asking for credentials in order to justify having an opinion. So even if Nails just became interested in baseball when his kid began to play, I have no problem with him saying just about whatever he would like.
Even though there are no first amendment rights here, you have to remember that you have the freedom to say what you like, but there is no guarantee or right that says you aren't a fool.
So Nails.......don't feel like you have show anyone any credentials to justify having an opinion. You are spot on regarding the fact that a pro player may have no valid perspective at all. Depends on the pro player and just how much he learned along the way.
Just be careful when you are talking about the kids.
Still, no matter how much any of us have to say here I don't remember anyone asking for credentials in order to justify having an opinion. So even if Nails just became interested in baseball when his kid began to play, I have no problem with him saying just about whatever he would like.
Even though there are no first amendment rights here, you have to remember that you have the freedom to say what you like, but there is no guarantee or right that says you aren't a fool.
So Nails.......don't feel like you have show anyone any credentials to justify having an opinion. You are spot on regarding the fact that a pro player may have no valid perspective at all. Depends on the pro player and just how much he learned along the way.
Just be careful when you are talking about the kids.
FBD,
What a great post, although I disagree slightly.
I think that when a person talks in absolutes, "there is no way", "90% of the schools do/never...", "most schools...", then it raises the question of credible source.
It's the basic tenent that I've taught my children to live by, question the source of authoritative statements and data. It's how we separate the actual from the pretend. To most of us, Dr. James Andrews opinion on pitch counts is more credible than some poster on a message board. But we can't assess that until we know the posters credentials. Perhaps he's an orthopedic surgeon with 400 TJ's and 150 labral surgeries under his belt and on retainer by the St. Louis Cardinals. Then again, maybe he's a Charter Captain who's done a bunch of research because his son has had arm surgery. Or maybe he's an accountant that's stuck in a lonely office cubicle all day and is just looking to sound important. Each has a differnt level of expertise from which to talk, or not, in absolutes.
The point is, opinoins are great, we'd never want to stifle them. Authoratative remarks however, should be questioned and are fair game for credentialing, otherwise we can't attribute validity. JMHO
What a great post, although I disagree slightly.
I think that when a person talks in absolutes, "there is no way", "90% of the schools do/never...", "most schools...", then it raises the question of credible source.
It's the basic tenent that I've taught my children to live by, question the source of authoritative statements and data. It's how we separate the actual from the pretend. To most of us, Dr. James Andrews opinion on pitch counts is more credible than some poster on a message board. But we can't assess that until we know the posters credentials. Perhaps he's an orthopedic surgeon with 400 TJ's and 150 labral surgeries under his belt and on retainer by the St. Louis Cardinals. Then again, maybe he's a Charter Captain who's done a bunch of research because his son has had arm surgery. Or maybe he's an accountant that's stuck in a lonely office cubicle all day and is just looking to sound important. Each has a differnt level of expertise from which to talk, or not, in absolutes.
The point is, opinoins are great, we'd never want to stifle them. Authoratative remarks however, should be questioned and are fair game for credentialing, otherwise we can't attribute validity. JMHO
CPLZ..
There is no doubt that you always need to question what you are being told and assess the credibility of who is saying it. Sometimes all you have to do is read what they write and it is very easy. I have a lot of confidence in most people's intelligence in understanding this.
It's just that sometimes it isn't hard to know what is a crock of **** and what isn't. I don't believe anyone is thinking Nails is an Orthopedic Surgeon.
There is no doubt that you always need to question what you are being told and assess the credibility of who is saying it. Sometimes all you have to do is read what they write and it is very easy. I have a lot of confidence in most people's intelligence in understanding this.
It's just that sometimes it isn't hard to know what is a crock of **** and what isn't. I don't believe anyone is thinking Nails is an Orthopedic Surgeon.
I am not really trying to cause this big controversial remarks, but I guess I have.
THNH,
I don't know what your talking about because the players you talked about not being in PBR, you never gave us a name. Remember, you wouldn't subject their names to this post, so how can I tell PBR about them? Still not sure who your talking about. All I said was I know Wes Neece is from down there and he just signed and he's ranked 100. Kid's a very good player, i think it shows that the numbers in that book don't mean much if a #100 kid is going to a very good D1 school. Or it shows that IL has a ton of talent. PBR is a reference or tool that colleges use to identify some players, they use it in their bio's so I am sure it's a credible source. Are they as big as Perfect Game, No. do they make mistakes just like Perfect Game, Yes. Perfect Game puts on some of the best events nationally every year. I think a kid being mentioned in any of these places in any fashion is only positive for that player.
THNH,
I don't know what your talking about because the players you talked about not being in PBR, you never gave us a name. Remember, you wouldn't subject their names to this post, so how can I tell PBR about them? Still not sure who your talking about. All I said was I know Wes Neece is from down there and he just signed and he's ranked 100. Kid's a very good player, i think it shows that the numbers in that book don't mean much if a #100 kid is going to a very good D1 school. Or it shows that IL has a ton of talent. PBR is a reference or tool that colleges use to identify some players, they use it in their bio's so I am sure it's a credible source. Are they as big as Perfect Game, No. do they make mistakes just like Perfect Game, Yes. Perfect Game puts on some of the best events nationally every year. I think a kid being mentioned in any of these places in any fashion is only positive for that player.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
...Or maybe he's an accountant that's stuck in a lonely office cubicle all day and is just looking to sound important...
Easy on the accountants. Counting beans gives us practice for counting pitches. Sorry, that is the other string.
Some of my best friends are accountants...no,really, they are! 
Nails I agree PBR and in fact anything that helps a player is a good thing. I have said the magazine is fun, subjective and a good thing. Yes IL has a ton of talent and no doubt in the long run a kid ranked #150 might be better or may be already that a kid ranked #5 but who knows. Some kids dont come into their own till later on.
I will however, on the lines of Coach Steeley ask you when you seen him play?, I do not believe you have or are you just saying he is good in general?.
I will however, on the lines of Coach Steeley ask you when you seen him play?, I do not believe you have or are you just saying he is good in general?.
Why would I say a kid is good if I didn't see him play? Do people really do that because if they do that's crazy and if that's something that is common on here I can see why everyone is questioning everyone's credentials.
The kid is a strong kid, great left handed swing. Has pop, can play OF or inf. Not sure where he played in High School, think he played both in HS and in the summer. That's why I wonder where SIU will play him. But as I said before, he's athletic enough and hits enough to give himself a chance somewhere in the field. Thanks for doubting me though, believe me yet?
The kid is a strong kid, great left handed swing. Has pop, can play OF or inf. Not sure where he played in High School, think he played both in HS and in the summer. That's why I wonder where SIU will play him. But as I said before, he's athletic enough and hits enough to give himself a chance somewhere in the field. Thanks for doubting me though, believe me yet?
I am LMAO right now, you are too funny...
He had never played one inning of OF for his summer team and I am more sure now than I was ealier that you have not seen him play. Please tell me where?, and when please...
He had never played one inning of OF for his summer team and I am more sure now than I was ealier that you have not seen him play. Please tell me where?, and when please...
your right, I never seen him play. I just made that entire thing up. Made his name up out of the blue and it just happened to be a real kid. Just guessed that he was a lefty hitter and righty thrower, guessed that he's athletic, can run a little bit and has some power. Maybe I should pay for my psychic abilities. he's about 6'0, thick strong kid.
Don't believe me I don't care, don't be surprised if SIU has him playing both OF and inf, next year though. What are your credentials to know that he never played and inning anywhere but the middle infield? You his dad?
Don't believe me I don't care, don't be surprised if SIU has him playing both OF and inf, next year though. What are your credentials to know that he never played and inning anywhere but the middle infield? You his dad?
Wait, I made him up and don't know who he is so maybe he's not a middle infielder, should not have said that. He could be a 3b or 1b right? Come on, give it a rest. I know a little more than you think.
quote:Originally posted by Nails: I don't think there's any schools that will offer a kid money without seeing them and if there is they probably won't be around long.
Hate to disagree with this, but SIU's sophomore CF was a guy the coaches never saw, he came highly recommended and was given scholarship money. He was the starting CF as a freshman and one heck of a player. Coach Cal has been around a good number of years in Carbondale.
You knew his name because I told it to RR and then out of the blue he is on PBR.
Honestly I got to hand it to you, you make my day go faster....I almost choked when you wrote back the last and still didnt say where you say him. The info you provided is easy to get.
I am not his dad...LOl...your hillarious...once again redeem yourself Nails..where did you see him play.
Honestly I got to hand it to you, you make my day go faster....I almost choked when you wrote back the last and still didnt say where you say him. The info you provided is easy to get.
I am not his dad...LOl...your hillarious...once again redeem yourself Nails..where did you see him play.
Nails...I pray you know more than I think you do!,
Again redeem yourself...where did you see him play,
Again redeem yourself...where did you see him play,
and I failed to mention, I never said he played only middle infield, I said he has never played one inning of OF on his summer team.
If SIU choose to put him in the OF they will have a fantasic Outfielder. Cal will know what to do when the time comes.
I know what your doing Nails..your trying to go back and figure things out so you can have an educated guess where he played and where you can say you saw him...time is up, where did you see him and why cant you come up with something?.
If SIU choose to put him in the OF they will have a fantasic Outfielder. Cal will know what to do when the time comes.
I know what your doing Nails..your trying to go back and figure things out so you can have an educated guess where he played and where you can say you saw him...time is up, where did you see him and why cant you come up with something?.