QUESTION FOR HITTING INSTRUCTORS

Actually - I have lots to say.

Just not to you - and certainly not on cyber command like some sort of trained web dog.

Command? Not sure what you mean. If anyone asks a question, you take it as them commanding something of you?

This site is predicated upon asking questions to seek advice. My question is you're putting them down, so how does your approach differ?

If you don't answer a basic question pertaining to hitting philosophy while your posting in the thread of hitting, you're not really here in the spirit of this site.

I certainly haven't commanded anything of you. Just seeking alternate ideas on hitting, since you seem to disapprove of ideas others have posted.

But, it seems you are now attacking me. "Just not to you" means I have offended you. You must offend easy.

Not offended at all.
Just responding truthfully.

As for your opinion about the spirit of the site - I dont think you truly understand that.

The site has always welcomed a wide variety of opinions. Over the years - my opinion of these two cyber entities has always been extremely negative. Some agree with that opinion and some dont. Thats OK.

You see - these 2 cyber entities have ridiculed some very good people on this site for years. And I dont like that. It is really that simple.

So I will stay on them. Always.

Well, my point in the post deleted by the moderator was that there are two people who always attack the messengers without discussing the messege. That seems wrong. I haven't read their posts from years ago, but their posts today seem pretty good. If someone feels those posts are hurting players...I'd like to konw what about them is wrong.

But, you seem to respond with a "Just not to you" which just seems a bit weak.

Discuss hitting. That is the spirit of this site (or this thread anyway). I that is not the spirit, as you say I misunderstand, feel free to tell me the spirit of this site. I'm apparently missing it.

Your first problem is that you havent read their posts from over the years.

You should do that IMO.

And I gave you a very specific example - of their cyber expert advice - (smashing a baseball bat into a 300 pound bag of sand) that I thought was horrible and dangerous. You just didnt read it. Or you read it and ignored it.

The spirit of the site to to share ideas - respectfully. To give opinions - respectfully. To argue points respectfully.

And to have fun.

It is not the spirit of the site to ridicule people - or to change ids and make believe you are someone else. It is not the spirit of the site to be disrespectful to people.

They never understood that.

The spirit of the site - IMO- has always been to foster an environment where you could share your experiences - good and bad - without having to endure ridicule from 2 anonymous clowns.

So - I am here for them.
Always.

I did read what you said. You seem to be talking about things and holding a grudge from things they did years ago. What about now?

Back on topic, are they more correct with what they say today than they did three years ago? Do you disagree with what they are now saying? Or, are they still saying things you strongly disagree with? Or, does it not matter what they say, the grudge runs so deep.....it'll never be a productive conversation? If it's the latter, I'll go back to watching the game. lol

Actually - there was a time a few years ago when Chameleon - (I forget what id he was using at the time) - posted his description of the swing - and more specifically - the use of the core in the swing.
I thought it was one of the best descriptions I ever read - and said so. He responded with an insult. LOL

He was 1 for 290 that year. The other 289 posts were basically insults directed at a huge and varied assortment of posters. I was always impressed with his cyber versatility and his willingness to spread insults to all. He had no favorites. LOL

As for Bluedog - never answered a single question. He usually just came on after Chameleon/Teacherman/Rshard etc...

It would go something like this:

Opinion posted.
Chameleon - would call you stupid if you didnt agree with him.

BlueDog - would then come on and call you really stupid. LOL - Then he would advise every one to listen to Chameleon.

And on and on it would go.
And in a weird sort of way - it was actually fun for awhile.

As for grudges - Yes - I have a cyber grudge against guys that tell young kids to swing a baseball bat into a 300 pound bag of sand. There - I admitted it. LOL

D**n, 13-9 in the seventh.

It's you mention the bag of sand.I have seen you mention this before.What we have at our house is a car tire that I cut a hole thru the tread.Then stuck the tire down on top of a 4x4 post in the ground.I saw this at a town years ago we played in LL.I did not give the sand bag drill a second thought scince we have been doing a different version for years here.

quote:

Originally posted by noreast:
D**n, 13-9 in the seventh.

lol-nice

Those who are "anti hitting into a bag drill" PROVE they don't know what a high level swing is all about by taking this stance.

High level swingers torque the handle at "go"....they immediately "launch and spend"....so that the barrel is on auto pilot at contact.

There is no pushing through contact....there is no way to hurt the wrists.

Just like lumberjacks who swing their axe into trees. The energy is launced and spent immediately. After the launch it is guided into the ball/tree.

Chameleon or whomever you are

Lets leave it at this---you do it your way if you want--others can follow you if they so desire

BUT there is no way I have my kids do what you say


And I like my kids to hear instructions in "english" not cyberspace lingo

As if you've found something new.

My previous post proved your ignorance.

Let me tell you a secret.....

NO ONE does what you suggest. Because you have never suggested anything....other than see it hit it.

Chameleon, keep up the good advice......We need it on here.....

And the TWIN CYBERSPACE BROTHER has just shown up

Cameleon lost all credability when he cut up Nick Weglarz swing. 23 HRs hitting 276 in A ball.

I had to look back at the original question... here's my take
(1) Hitting is a process, of course you change the hitter.
(2) Changing mechanics changes timing. If you "mess" with a hitter that is hitting, he probably will stop hitting, at least for a time.
(3) If you want your kid to be good at Little League and he is hitting in Little League, don't change him. If you want your kid to have a chance to play at the highest level, you better help the kid evolve.
(4) You need to choose when to work on mechanics and not everything at once. I used to pick the fall for major adjustments, but would pick only one or two things to work on.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballpapa:
I had to look back at the original question... here's my take
(1) Hitting is a process, of course you change the hitter.
(2) Changing mechanics changes timing. If you "mess" with a hitter that is hitting, he probably will stop hitting, at least for a time.
(3) If you want your kid to be good at Little League and he is hitting in Little League, don't change him. If you want your kid to have a chance to play at the highest level, you better help the kid evolve.
(4) You need to choose when to work on mechanics and not everything at once. I used to pick the fall for major adjustments, but would pick only one or two things to work on.

Agree 100% and number 4 is the kicker! With most kids playing only one sport these days, the Fall and or Winter is a perfect time to make major changes in someone's swing if they are already having success at what they are already doing. If they aren't, anytime is good. IMO

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Those who are "anti hitting into a bag drill" PROVE they don't know what a high level swing is all about by taking this stance.

High level swingers torque the handle at "go"....they immediately "launch and spend"....so that the barrel is on auto pilot at contact.

There is no pushing through contact....there is no way to hurt the wrists.

Just like lumberjacks who swing their axe into trees. The energy is launced and spent immediately. After the launch it is guided into the ball/tree.

So, you are saying you can throw a bat at a ball on a tee and hit it out of a MLB park? Could you throw it at a 95+ pitched ball and hit it out too?

Even if I took what you say as fact concerning the swing (which I don't), the lumberjack analogy is not true. When swinging an ax (and I believe when swinging a baseball bat) the momentum is carried throughout the swing and to just after contact. If it was an immediate and instantaneous release at go it would fade at contact. Just like a dragster taking off at the starting line or an airplane trying to take-off after first firing the engines or the space shuttle using only enough fuel to ignite the initial blast. Do you think it would ever leave the ground?

The ax analogy is proper.

In both cases the least amount of effort should be used to propel the weighted end at the greatest speed.

Once that weight is in motion, it will continue in motion until acted upon by another force. The wrists are not jarred because they are relaxed and holding the fulcrum at the point of least movement.

Hitting the ball does not stop the bat, gravity and the body does.

One would have to use an ax properly to get a full understanding of the mechanics involved.

After paying the prices charged for bats today, I would never give this suggestion to a child or even myself. Further, a child, not understanding the mechanics involved, could be injured.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
The ax analogy is proper.

In both cases the least amount of effort should be used to propel the weighted end at the greatest speed.

Once that weight is in motion, it will continue in motion until acted upon by another force. The wrists are not jarred because they are relaxed and holding the fulcrum at the point of least movement.

Hitting the ball does not stop the bat, gravity and the body does.

One would have to use an ax properly to get a full understanding of the mechanics involved.

After paying the prices charged for bats today, I would never give this suggestion to a child or even myself. Further, a child, not understanding the mechanics involved, could be injured.

Even if you are swinging an axe from overhead to near your feet you will still take a bigger bite out of the wood if you continue the swing to contact. If as you say, all you need to do is get the axe started in motion, only the weight of the axe head is making the chop. Yes it can be done that way, but you are going to freeze to death in Winter because the fire is going out before you get another log on the fire.

As far as hitting a moving object or taking any to objects toward each other, the object with acceleration through contact will win. If this was not true, one would go in one direction and the other would go in the other direction. This is an easy experiment.

The bat should be accelerating at contact, not decelerating.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:


Once that weight is in motion, it will continue in motion until acted upon by another force. The wrists are not jarred because they are relaxed and holding the fulcrum at the point of least movement.

The wrists are not jarred because the energy is being released from the barrel, not the handle and is being absorbed by the sand. I use a tire instead. You could be injured if you were too close to the object you were hitting if it was a solid object and your wrists were lined up wrong.

To get the best result from both a bat or an ax, we have to swing through contact, not to contact.

The ax head is designed to make the chop. Once the ax head is in motion, its weight and shape will make the most effective chop if contact is proper.

If you were to do this experiment, you would find that the object with the greater weight and mass would have the greater effect on the other object in collision.

At contact, the bat should be at the point of greatest accelleration, not still accellerating.

In the sand bag post, the wrists would be hurt if still accellerating and suddenly stopped.

I guess I'm ignorant as to how hitting these objects improves your swing. I understand the various programs of overload and underload which deals with degrees of weight in ounces. I understand progressive resistance ie. bungee or pulley. I guess I've never hit a ball and felt so much resistance that it stopped my bat. Since I admit my ignorance, I can't take a stand one way or the other as to the efficiency of this exercise. I believe that when we're swinging, we're hitting most of our balls from a front toss situation and getting a lot of reps in that way. No one has ever thrown a tire at one of my kids. (...and if they had and were big enough to do it, I'd be scared!)

Just a quick reply to the original question as I think it was a very valid one. I think you have to be very careful when fixing a flaw when a hitter is having success. You have to ask, "What is the flaw and how will it truly affect the swing?" If I feel a hitter has a true flaw that makes him susceptible to a certain pitch, I will throw that pitch to him in batting practice and see how he handles it. He may be able to handle it fine or it will help him understand that we need to adjust. I do not think it is good practice to change a hitter because they are not kinesthetically pleasing to one's eye or they have a different swing than you would have them use. See what they do well, anticipate and explore weaknesses, and improve from there but don't change just because you "think" something, as often our ideas change and improve as we mature and learn more as coaches

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
I guess I'm ignorant as to how hitting these objects improves your swing. I understand the various programs of overload and underload which deals with degrees of weight in ounces. I understand progressive resistance ie. bungee or pulley. I guess I've never hit a ball and felt so much resistance that it stopped my bat. Since I admit my ignorance, I can't take a stand one way or the other as to the efficiency of this exercise. I believe that when we're swinging, we're hitting most of our balls from a front toss situation and getting a lot of reps in that way. No one has ever thrown a tire at one of my kids. (...and if they had and were big enough to do it, I'd be scared!)

Coach,

I can only speak to the reason I use the tire in my teaching. It is used by me to let a player feel the difference from one ball position to another as well as letting them feel and hear the difference from their current swing to after the changes I make in their swing. It is only used in the first and maybe the second lesson depending on the student.

The reason I use this tool instead of letting them hit balls off of a tee or using soft toss is because when you make changes to a swing it usually causes timing issues and I want them to believe in the swing before they have to concentrate on hitting the ball.