Recruitable as Two Way Player for Ivy ???

Gov-  A couple of thoughts. On the one hand, the rosters in Ivy (in some) are smaller than the 35 you'll see at other D1s. Some pitchers (POs) will get ABs in the spring or in blowout games. Others who can hit, but were POs may DH (seen it) if there arm is injured. Schools will determine where the need is. It sounds like your 2018 is more of a SS (a position heavily recruited in Ivy due to its versatility) who can pitch.

One Freshman at an Ivy this year was a pretty good hitter in high school (extra base power). He threw hard, had the "look of a pitcher" (build), and was all state. When he was recruited, he thought that he would DH when he wasn't pitching. He was the #2 or #3 SP for the team. Still was told to take BP so he wouldn't lose the skill. Never got an AB this season.

Another team had a player who was recruited as a possible 2-way player and got starts at 1B and as well as having some "weekday" starts on the mound. In conclusion , versatility  is a good thing. I see more cases where position players are asked to pitch a few innings (due to injuries with others, scheduling issues, eat some innings), rather than players who are recruited as pitchers and throw regularly, getting a chance to get consistent ABs.

Ripken Fan posted:

Gov-  A couple of thoughts. On the one hand, the rosters in Ivy (in some) are smaller than the 35 you'll see at other D1s. Some pitchers (POs) will get ABs in the spring or in blowout games. Others who can hit, but were POs may DH (seen it) if there arm is injured. Schools will determine where the need is. It sounds like your 2018 is more of a SS (a position heavily recruited in Ivy due to its versatility) who can pitch.

One Freshman at an Ivy this year was a pretty good hitter in high school (extra base power). He threw hard, had the "look of a pitcher" (build), and was all state. When he was recruited, he thought that he would DH when he wasn't pitching. He was the #2 or #3 SP for the team. Still was told to take BP so he wouldn't lose the skill. Never got an AB this season.

Another team had a player who was recruited as a possible 2-way player and got starts at 1B and as well as having some "weekday" starts on the mound. In conclusion , versatility  is a good thing. I see more cases where position players are asked to pitch a few innings (due to injuries with others, scheduling issues, eat some innings), rather than players who are recruited as pitchers and throw regularly, getting a chance to get consistent ABs.

Thanks Ripken.  Do you think my 2018 should sign up as both a position player and RHP at HF to show pitching capability?  Or, sign up as MIF/SS, and maybe mention he can pitch (show video), and say he's able to help on the mound, promoting more flexibility?  

Before you even get to the baseball part have you researched the Ivy academic requirements and is he truly IVY GPA, test scores, levels?

Second it is unusual for a middle infielder to be recruited as a two way due to the demands placed on those positions. Schools will recruit for outstanding talent first. "getting to 85 pretty quickly" is not 85, it is what ever he is now. Granted he is a 2018 so he has development time, but even though they are high academic, IVY's are looking for power arms for their pitchers and IF you have this THEN you may be considered a two way. Being mediocre in both will not get him much of a look IMO. It is my experience that college two ways tend to be power arms and power bats. 

Good luck.

BOF posted:

Before you even get to the baseball part have you researched the Ivy academic requirements and is he truly IVY GPA, test scores, levels?

Second it is unusual for a middle infielder to be recruited as a two way due to the demands placed on those positions. Schools will recruit for outstanding talent first. "getting to 85 pretty quickly" is not 85, it is what ever he is now. Granted he is a 2018 so he has development time, but even though they are high academic, IVY's are looking for power arms for their pitchers and IF you have this THEN you may be considered a two way. Being mediocre in both will not get him much of a look IMO. It is my experience that college two ways tend to be power arms and power bats. 

Good luck.

He has the academic chops...

BOF, I think you've served up the key thing: "demands placed on positions"  

We'll focus on strong arm and good bat SS.    

I know (have seen play) two, two way players in the Ivy leagues. One is now in the Cardinals bull pen; the other is steaming his way through the Yankee system. One played short; the other first.  One's velo sat 90, the other sat 87 in college. Both were studs at the plate; average fielders. But, in the end your son has no real control of where he'll play.

(a) if he's good enough (b) he'll play anywhere the coach wants. So, the goal is to get good - very good in something - anything really.

Gov posted:

Ripken Fan posted:

Gov-  A couple of thoughts. On the one hand, the rosters in Ivy (in some) are smaller than the 35 you'll see at other D1s. Some pitchers (POs) will get ABs in the spring or in blowout games. Others who can hit, but were POs may DH (seen it) if there arm is injured. Schools will determine where the need is. It sounds like your 2018 is more of a SS (a position heavily recruited in Ivy due to its versatility) who can pitch.

One Freshman at an Ivy this year was a pretty good hitter in high school (extra base power). He threw hard, had the "look of a pitcher" (build), and was all state. When he was recruited, he thought that he would DH when he wasn't pitching. He was the #2 or #3 SP for the team. Still was told to take BP so he wouldn't lose the skill. Never got an AB this season.

Another team had a player who was recruited as a possible 2-way player and got starts at 1B and as well as having some "weekday" starts on the mound. In conclusion , versatility  is a good thing. I see more cases where position players are asked to pitch a few innings (due to injuries with others, scheduling issues, eat some innings), rather than players who are recruited as pitchers and throw regularly, getting a chance to get consistent ABs.

Thanks Ripken.  Do you think my 2018 should sign up as both a position player and RHP at HF to show pitching capability?  Or, sign up as MIF/SS, and maybe mention he can pitch (show video), and say he's able to help on the mound, promoting more flexibility?  

 

Along the lines of BOF 's comment, where is the real strength? His throw across the diamond for a 2018 is pretty good. I would probably sign up as MI (position that fills the quickest at HF camps) and then send video on pitching to schools you are in touch with. Again school's need will dictate much.  In son's recruiting journey, he received interest as both MI and CF. In the end he was offered for a spot as an "athletic MI who could play the OF if needed."  Good luck.

As far as signing up for HF - there were plenty of players there who pitched and played the field when we were there.  I think it's possible for him to sign up as MIF and still get one or two innings each day.  Esp day 2 - they are scrambling to fill innings.  My 2016 signed up as PO, still did the batting cage part of the camp so he wasn't just standing around and somehow ended up starting MIF and batting in game 2 on the first day.   The only thing he didn't participate in was the infield/outfield throwing because he was the first pitcher scheduled to throw in game 1 on day 1.  

His strength is at SS, and already signed up as MIF for HF.  I've tried to protect his arm by limiting time on the mound to a few innings per tournament.  Wasn't until his velo picked up that this idea of marketing as a two player came up; another angle to generate more appeal.

Just needed to air this out with the wisdom on the board, thank you.

Beyond all the advise that has been offered, there is more to it than just your son.   A few years ago, I believe very few Ivy HCs believed in it and most not at all.  From our 4 year experience in the "League" only Princeton had a consistent philosophy of allowing two-way players. 

4 HCs within the Ivy have changed since my son hung up his cleats in 2014, so I think it is a fair question to ask the HC about his specific two-way philosophy.  So, assuming you get through all the academic and athletic hurdles then you have to look at the two-way history of the program and then decide if this is something you really want to do keeping in mind: two-way travel baseball (at the highest levels) is not the same as two-way D1 Ivy baseball with the day in and day out throwing routines especially at SS. 

JMO.

My son was in a similar position when getting recruited.  He was looking at some of the high academic D3s but not quite Ivy level.  He has always been a MIF and a closer (although in HS, he played SS but did not pitch much despite hitting 88mph on the gun in his senior year),  During the recruiting process, he always focused on explaining his tools and saying he was willing to play anywhere the team needed him but told the absolute truth about his desire to play MIF and pitch whenever the team needed him.  What he consistently heard in return was, "we recruit athleticism.  We like kids who play up the middle and can adjust to where ever we need them."  All of the D3s told him they would consider him a 2 way guy.  The D1s only saw him as a MIF or at 3B.  The D2 that he ended up at saw him as a 2 way guy. 

Now, he is a Freshman just starting fall ball and the HC has him working out with the pitchers and the infielders (BTW: the current HC is not the one who recruited him).  There is only 1 other guy on the roster who works both ways also.  It makes a tough schedule even tougher but he reports that he's enjoying the work and looking forward to seeing how he can help the team best.  The way I see it, it gives him more options to contribute and to be ready for whatever comes next.

The best advice I have is to stay flexible, focus on advancing all of his tools, be completely honest with yourself about his abilities and ask as many questions as he needs to in order to make the best decision possible.

Good luck to your son on his journey.

I don't have Ivy experience, but I am the parent of a two-way player in high school.  It's a lot of work to be good at both positions, and keep up with academics.  My son is now a freshman at an elite academic D3 and he is hoping to NOT be a two-way player even though the coach has mentioned he might be used as a closer.  He will do whatever is asked of him, but it will be very hard with his academic workload.

Matty posted:

I don't have Ivy experience, but I am the parent of a two-way player in high school.  It's a lot of work to be good at both positions, and keep up with academics.  My son is now a freshman at an elite academic D3 and he is hoping to NOT be a two-way player even though the coach has mentioned he might be used as a closer.  He will do whatever is asked of him, but it will be very hard with his academic workload.

Sent you a PM

My 2017 has signed up as a two way C/RHP at all of the major camps and showcases and even into the Fall of his Senior year, it is still not clear where his greatest value is.  Some coaches have focused on his catching and others like his pitching prospects because of his strong arm.  Our experience has been to enroll his primary position as C (or in your case MIF) and then list Pitcher as the secondary.  Every event he has been to, they have always allowed him to pitch at least one inning, sometimes each day like HF did.  That way your son can get seen in both positions and coaches/scouts can decide for themselves the best fit.  And several coaches have said they like the flexibility and it may give him an edge over a kid who only provides one option.

My son also got what I thought was some excellent words of wisdom from one of Stanford's coaches at one of the camps he attended.  The coach said two-way players should continue to play both positions until they are set on a college team and that coach tells him to drop one of the positions.  Until then, he said, play the position where your HS coach and travel coach need you the most and keep your options open.  Good luck.

I would focus on MIF. He should have soft hands and range, it appears he has a strong arm and I would also focus on speed development and high OBP. The most successful MIF's I saw in my son's college career were magic in the infield, and had a high OBP, plus speed. That is the profile you are trying to fit into. LHH helps also. 

My son was a two way in college and was recruited by IVY's, received one offer but decided to go to a baseball powerhouse high academic D3. He pitched and played in the field his Fr year (OF), decided it was too much and played OF only in his So year, and then went two-way again in his Jr season until be broke his glove finger and converted back to a pitcher his remaining JR and Sr year. College baseball is hard enough with academics, and to put on IVY academics and two-way-play, and in particular MIF,  is asking a lot for a mortal. 

Sounds like you have a good plan. 

My 2012 was recruited and offered as a two way (SS / RHP) at 7 of the 8 Ivys and a lot of other places.  He always showcased as a SS first, and secondarily as a RHP.  But it was our expectation that the coaches would play him where they felt he best fit, i.e., offering the recruit as a two way player is not the same as committing to the player any position or any playing time once in college.

My 2016 showcased as a SS and RHP too.  However, he did not have the arm to ultimately pitch in college so he committed as a MIF.  Regardless, his coaches will play him somewhere if he can hit or he'll ride the bench if he doesn't.

Schools need lots of pitching.  IMHO, if a player can pitch, even if it's not his primary position, then showcasing that additional skill can be beneficial to the player.

Once in college, if the player can hit, they will DH or play the field.  If they can't hit, then they better be able to pitch.  Just my humble opinion.

I really can't add much to the conversation, but college coaches are always looking for someone that can pitch well.  If you can hit, you will be in the lineup.  Do both, the coach basically gets a 2-for-1 guy.  However, in college it is hard to pull it off well with double the practice time.   Your goal is to get on the field, so many decide to be pitcher only or position only.

(as much as I hate to admit it)....  My favorite 2-way guy to watch right now is Adam Haseley at UVA.  Played/started every game in CF.  Then when they needed him to pitch, he comes trotting in.  Led the team in ERA last year, too.   Google him.  He will be selected early this June.  

Branson Baseball posted:

My 2012 was recruited and offered as a two way (SS / RHP) at 7 of the 8 Ivys and a lot of other places.  He always showcased as a SS first, and secondarily as a RHP.  But it was our expectation that the coaches would play him where they felt he best fit, i.e., offering the recruit as a two way player is not the same as committing to the player any position or any playing time once in college.

My 2016 showcased as a SS and RHP too.  However, he did not have the arm to ultimately pitch in college so he committed as a MIF.  Regardless, his coaches will play him somewhere if he can hit or he'll ride the bench if he doesn't.

Schools need lots of pitching.  IMHO, if a player can pitch, even if it's not his primary position, then showcasing that additional skill can be beneficial to the player.

Once in college, if the player can hit, they will DH or play the field.  If they can't hit, then they better be able to pitch.  Just my humble opinion.

 

Few questions - sent PM

Yale once had a SS/RHP 2-way player who turned out to be pretty good.

Ripken Fan posted:

Yale once had a SS/RHP 2-way player who turned out to be pretty good.

Nice...had no idea.