2018 is seeking to play at top academic school.  He's been the starting SS for club team, playing national events, and also the occasional and effective closer (1-2x per week - 2-3 innings).  Solid line drive hitter as well...

IF velo just hit 87; pitching coach thinks his FB velo will be 85 pretty quickly.  We're thinking we should be promoting his SS/RHP two player capabilities.

How do Ivy's view two players?  Anybody with experience or points of view with this?

Hoping to tap into the experience here...

 

 

Last edited by Gov
Original Post

Gov-  A couple of thoughts. On the one hand, the rosters in Ivy (in some) are smaller than the 35 you'll see at other D1s. Some pitchers (POs) will get ABs in the spring or in blowout games. Others who can hit, but were POs may DH (seen it) if there arm is injured. Schools will determine where the need is. It sounds like your 2018 is more of a SS (a position heavily recruited in Ivy due to its versatility) who can pitch.

One Freshman at an Ivy this year was a pretty good hitter in high school (extra base power). He threw hard, had the "look of a pitcher" (build), and was all state. When he was recruited, he thought that he would DH when he wasn't pitching. He was the #2 or #3 SP for the team. Still was told to take BP so he wouldn't lose the skill. Never got an AB this season.

Another team had a player who was recruited as a possible 2-way player and got starts at 1B and as well as having some "weekday" starts on the mound. In conclusion , versatility  is a good thing. I see more cases where position players are asked to pitch a few innings (due to injuries with others, scheduling issues, eat some innings), rather than players who are recruited as pitchers and throw regularly, getting a chance to get consistent ABs.

Ripken Fan posted:

Gov-  A couple of thoughts. On the one hand, the rosters in Ivy (in some) are smaller than the 35 you'll see at other D1s. Some pitchers (POs) will get ABs in the spring or in blowout games. Others who can hit, but were POs may DH (seen it) if there arm is injured. Schools will determine where the need is. It sounds like your 2018 is more of a SS (a position heavily recruited in Ivy due to its versatility) who can pitch.

One Freshman at an Ivy this year was a pretty good hitter in high school (extra base power). He threw hard, had the "look of a pitcher" (build), and was all state. When he was recruited, he thought that he would DH when he wasn't pitching. He was the #2 or #3 SP for the team. Still was told to take BP so he wouldn't lose the skill. Never got an AB this season.

Another team had a player who was recruited as a possible 2-way player and got starts at 1B and as well as having some "weekday" starts on the mound. In conclusion , versatility  is a good thing. I see more cases where position players are asked to pitch a few innings (due to injuries with others, scheduling issues, eat some innings), rather than players who are recruited as pitchers and throw regularly, getting a chance to get consistent ABs.

Thanks Ripken.  Do you think my 2018 should sign up as both a position player and RHP at HF to show pitching capability?  Or, sign up as MIF/SS, and maybe mention he can pitch (show video), and say he's able to help on the mound, promoting more flexibility?  

 

Before you even get to the baseball part have you researched the Ivy academic requirements and is he truly IVY GPA, test scores, levels?

Second it is unusual for a middle infielder to be recruited as a two way due to the demands placed on those positions. Schools will recruit for outstanding talent first. "getting to 85 pretty quickly" is not 85, it is what ever he is now. Granted he is a 2018 so he has development time, but even though they are high academic, IVY's are looking for power arms for their pitchers and IF you have this THEN you may be considered a two way. Being mediocre in both will not get him much of a look IMO. It is my experience that college two ways tend to be power arms and power bats. 

Good luck.

BOF posted:

Before you even get to the baseball part have you researched the Ivy academic requirements and is he truly IVY GPA, test scores, levels?

Second it is unusual for a middle infielder to be recruited as a two way due to the demands placed on those positions. Schools will recruit for outstanding talent first. "getting to 85 pretty quickly" is not 85, it is what ever he is now. Granted he is a 2018 so he has development time, but even though they are high academic, IVY's are looking for power arms for their pitchers and IF you have this THEN you may be considered a two way. Being mediocre in both will not get him much of a look IMO. It is my experience that college two ways tend to be power arms and power bats. 

Good luck.

He has the academic chops...

BOF, I think you've served up the key thing: "demands placed on positions"  

We'll focus on strong arm and good bat SS.    

I know (have seen play) two, two way players in the Ivy leagues. One is now in the Cardinals bull pen; the other is steaming his way through the Yankee system. One played short; the other first.  One's velo sat 90, the other sat 87 in college. Both were studs at the plate; average fielders. But, in the end your son has no real control of where he'll play.

(a) if he's good enough (b) he'll play anywhere the coach wants. So, the goal is to get good - very good in something - anything really.

Gov posted:
Ripken Fan posted:

Gov-  A couple of thoughts. On the one hand, the rosters in Ivy (in some) are smaller than the 35 you'll see at other D1s. Some pitchers (POs) will get ABs in the spring or in blowout games. Others who can hit, but were POs may DH (seen it) if there arm is injured. Schools will determine where the need is. It sounds like your 2018 is more of a SS (a position heavily recruited in Ivy due to its versatility) who can pitch.

One Freshman at an Ivy this year was a pretty good hitter in high school (extra base power). He threw hard, had the "look of a pitcher" (build), and was all state. When he was recruited, he thought that he would DH when he wasn't pitching. He was the #2 or #3 SP for the team. Still was told to take BP so he wouldn't lose the skill. Never got an AB this season.

Another team had a player who was recruited as a possible 2-way player and got starts at 1B and as well as having some "weekday" starts on the mound. In conclusion , versatility  is a good thing. I see more cases where position players are asked to pitch a few innings (due to injuries with others, scheduling issues, eat some innings), rather than players who are recruited as pitchers and throw regularly, getting a chance to get consistent ABs.

Thanks Ripken.  Do you think my 2018 should sign up as both a position player and RHP at HF to show pitching capability?  Or, sign up as MIF/SS, and maybe mention he can pitch (show video), and say he's able to help on the mound, promoting more flexibility?  

 

Along the lines of BOF 's comment, where is the real strength? His throw across the diamond for a 2018 is pretty good. I would probably sign up as MI (position that fills the quickest at HF camps) and then send video on pitching to schools you are in touch with. Again school's need will dictate much.  In son's recruiting journey, he received interest as both MI and CF. In the end he was offered for a spot as an "athletic MI who could play the OF if needed."  Good luck.

As far as signing up for HF - there were plenty of players there who pitched and played the field when we were there.  I think it's possible for him to sign up as MIF and still get one or two innings each day.  Esp day 2 - they are scrambling to fill innings.  My 2016 signed up as PO, still did the batting cage part of the camp so he wasn't just standing around and somehow ended up starting MIF and batting in game 2 on the first day.   The only thing he didn't participate in was the infield/outfield throwing because he was the first pitcher scheduled to throw in game 1 on day 1.  

His strength is at SS, and already signed up as MIF for HF.  I've tried to protect his arm by limiting time on the mound to a few innings per tournament.  Wasn't until his velo picked up that this idea of marketing as a two player came up; another angle to generate more appeal.

Just needed to air this out with the wisdom on the board, thank you.

Beyond all the advise that has been offered, there is more to it than just your son.   A few years ago, I believe very few Ivy HCs believed in it and most not at all.  From our 4 year experience in the "League" only Princeton had a consistent philosophy of allowing two-way players. 

4 HCs within the Ivy have changed since my son hung up his cleats in 2014, so I think it is a fair question to ask the HC about his specific two-way philosophy.  So, assuming you get through all the academic and athletic hurdles then you have to look at the two-way history of the program and then decide if this is something you really want to do keeping in mind: two-way travel baseball (at the highest levels) is not the same as two-way D1 Ivy baseball with the day in and day out throwing routines especially at SS. 

JMO.

Last edited by fenwaysouth

My son was in a similar position when getting recruited.  He was looking at some of the high academic D3s but not quite Ivy level.  He has always been a MIF and a closer (although in HS, he played SS but did not pitch much despite hitting 88mph on the gun in his senior year),  During the recruiting process, he always focused on explaining his tools and saying he was willing to play anywhere the team needed him but told the absolute truth about his desire to play MIF and pitch whenever the team needed him.  What he consistently heard in return was, "we recruit athleticism.  We like kids who play up the middle and can adjust to where ever we need them."  All of the D3s told him they would consider him a 2 way guy.  The D1s only saw him as a MIF or at 3B.  The D2 that he ended up at saw him as a 2 way guy. 

Now, he is a Freshman just starting fall ball and the HC has him working out with the pitchers and the infielders (BTW: the current HC is not the one who recruited him).  There is only 1 other guy on the roster who works both ways also.  It makes a tough schedule even tougher but he reports that he's enjoying the work and looking forward to seeing how he can help the team best.  The way I see it, it gives him more options to contribute and to be ready for whatever comes next.

The best advice I have is to stay flexible, focus on advancing all of his tools, be completely honest with yourself about his abilities and ask as many questions as he needs to in order to make the best decision possible.

Good luck to your son on his journey.

 

I don't have Ivy experience, but I am the parent of a two-way player in high school.  It's a lot of work to be good at both positions, and keep up with academics.  My son is now a freshman at an elite academic D3 and he is hoping to NOT be a two-way player even though the coach has mentioned he might be used as a closer.  He will do whatever is asked of him, but it will be very hard with his academic workload.

Matty posted:

I don't have Ivy experience, but I am the parent of a two-way player in high school.  It's a lot of work to be good at both positions, and keep up with academics.  My son is now a freshman at an elite academic D3 and he is hoping to NOT be a two-way player even though the coach has mentioned he might be used as a closer.  He will do whatever is asked of him, but it will be very hard with his academic workload.

Sent you a PM

My 2017 has signed up as a two way C/RHP at all of the major camps and showcases and even into the Fall of his Senior year, it is still not clear where his greatest value is.  Some coaches have focused on his catching and others like his pitching prospects because of his strong arm.  Our experience has been to enroll his primary position as C (or in your case MIF) and then list Pitcher as the secondary.  Every event he has been to, they have always allowed him to pitch at least one inning, sometimes each day like HF did.  That way your son can get seen in both positions and coaches/scouts can decide for themselves the best fit.  And several coaches have said they like the flexibility and it may give him an edge over a kid who only provides one option.

My son also got what I thought was some excellent words of wisdom from one of Stanford's coaches at one of the camps he attended.  The coach said two-way players should continue to play both positions until they are set on a college team and that coach tells him to drop one of the positions.  Until then, he said, play the position where your HS coach and travel coach need you the most and keep your options open.  Good luck.

I would focus on MIF. He should have soft hands and range, it appears he has a strong arm and I would also focus on speed development and high OBP. The most successful MIF's I saw in my son's college career were magic in the infield, and had a high OBP, plus speed. That is the profile you are trying to fit into. LHH helps also. 

My son was a two way in college and was recruited by IVY's, received one offer but decided to go to a baseball powerhouse high academic D3. He pitched and played in the field his Fr year (OF), decided it was too much and played OF only in his So year, and then went two-way again in his Jr season until be broke his glove finger and converted back to a pitcher his remaining JR and Sr year. College baseball is hard enough with academics, and to put on IVY academics and two-way-play, and in particular MIF,  is asking a lot for a mortal. 

Sounds like you have a good plan. 

Last edited by BOF

My 2012 was recruited and offered as a two way (SS / RHP) at 7 of the 8 Ivys and a lot of other places.  He always showcased as a SS first, and secondarily as a RHP.  But it was our expectation that the coaches would play him where they felt he best fit, i.e., offering the recruit as a two way player is not the same as committing to the player any position or any playing time once in college.

My 2016 showcased as a SS and RHP too.  However, he did not have the arm to ultimately pitch in college so he committed as a MIF.  Regardless, his coaches will play him somewhere if he can hit or he'll ride the bench if he doesn't.

Schools need lots of pitching.  IMHO, if a player can pitch, even if it's not his primary position, then showcasing that additional skill can be beneficial to the player.

Once in college, if the player can hit, they will DH or play the field.  If they can't hit, then they better be able to pitch.  Just my humble opinion.

 

I really can't add much to the conversation, but college coaches are always looking for someone that can pitch well.  If you can hit, you will be in the lineup.  Do both, the coach basically gets a 2-for-1 guy.  However, in college it is hard to pull it off well with double the practice time.   Your goal is to get on the field, so many decide to be pitcher only or position only.

(as much as I hate to admit it)....  My favorite 2-way guy to watch right now is Adam Haseley at UVA.  Played/started every game in CF.  Then when they needed him to pitch, he comes trotting in.  Led the team in ERA last year, too.   Google him.  He will be selected early this June.  

Last edited by keewart
Branson Baseball posted:

My 2012 was recruited and offered as a two way (SS / RHP) at 7 of the 8 Ivys and a lot of other places.  He always showcased as a SS first, and secondarily as a RHP.  But it was our expectation that the coaches would play him where they felt he best fit, i.e., offering the recruit as a two way player is not the same as committing to the player any position or any playing time once in college.

My 2016 showcased as a SS and RHP too.  However, he did not have the arm to ultimately pitch in college so he committed as a MIF.  Regardless, his coaches will play him somewhere if he can hit or he'll ride the bench if he doesn't.

Schools need lots of pitching.  IMHO, if a player can pitch, even if it's not his primary position, then showcasing that additional skill can be beneficial to the player.

Once in college, if the player can hit, they will DH or play the field.  If they can't hit, then they better be able to pitch.  Just my humble opinion.

 

Few questions - sent PM

Ripken Fan posted:

Yale once had a SS/RHP 2-way player who turned out to be pretty good.

Nice...had no idea.

I would think with a current Velo of low 80s the chances are better as a Position Player. maybe in a weak Team he could also serve as an innings eater emergency reliever and you could mention that to the Coach but likely at this Point he is a Position Player.

most two way Players are guys who throw really hard (but maybe have some control issues - because if you throw hard and have control you are a pitcher even if you can hit unless you can hit like babe ruth).

As was already mentioned , w/ HS pitcher recruiting at the D1 level it starts with velocity numbers . Basically, the magic number is 85 on the left side. 88 on the right side. That's during the recruiting process. Which means if your son is a righty Junior he needs to be at 88 mph on the gun in High School. Period. And the ivy league is no different.

Also, the Ivy is it's own specialized unique maze of recruiting rules and timelines and it is EXTREMELY difficult to actually land a roster spot at an Ivy.

My son got real close with an ivy school during his recruitment. 'Close' means that the baseball dept ran him through as a 'pre read' through admissions and was deemed academically 'Likely to be accepted' .

That is important for parents and players to know. The Ivys cast a real 'wide net' in recruiting. They talk to everybody . So, a piece of unsolicited suggestion/ advice here based on my personal experience:

You are NOT a serious recruit at an Ivy school unless you have been ran through admissions as  a 'pre read' . I'm not talking about the RC saying ' Your GPA and test scores look good. You look like a good fit'.

No, I want to be crystal clear. A pre-read is when The baseball dept vets you through admissions via the departments academic liaison. This is not a 'likely letter ' that is different. The pre read for my son took about 48 hours. They will ask for official HS transcripts and standardized test score results. Once you are deemed ' likely to be admitted' then admissions has signed off on you for the baseball guys to move forward recruiting the player.It then basically becomes a straight baseball deal. Meaning that if they want you and you want them...it's done.

So, no pre-read? You are NOT close.

I'm sort of trying to hammer this point home because players and parents spend WAY too much valuable time in the recruiting process chasing schools they will probably never get into academically or are not the right fit for the school from the baseball side.

When a school wants a player. They make their intentions clear. There is no ambiguity. They are aggressive and you KNOW they are on you.

While I'm already on a rant here, let me add another tidbit of info: If your son is a serious 'recruit' at a school and he is a 2018 or 2017  he is receiving regular phone calls , texts from the RC.

No regular phone calls/texts? You are NOT a serious recruit at that school.

RC's email 'Follows'.....They use the phone with serious prospects / recruits.

Ivy league RC phoned / texted my son weekly , bi-weekly throughout his Junior year in HS . And this was way before he did the pre-read .

It's extremely important for parents / players to learn how to define REAL interest. Most do not. There are several HSBBWEB members here that helped me with that. I will always be grateful to those guys

 

Anything I type here is just my opinion based on my own personal experience.

Last edited by StrainedOblique
StrainedOblique posted:

As was already mentioned , w/ HS pitcher recruiting at the D1 level it starts with velocity numbers . Basically, the magic number is 85 on the left side. 88 on the right side. That's during the recruiting process. Which means if your son is a righty Junior he needs to be at 88 mph on the gun in High School. Period. And the ivy league is no different.

Also, the Ivy is it's own specialized unique maze of recruiting rules and timelines and it is EXTREMELY difficult to actually land a roster spot at an Ivy.

My son got real close with an ivy school during his recruitment. 'Close' means that the baseball dept ran him through as a 'pre read' through admissions and was deemed academically 'Likely to be accepted' .

That is important for parents and players to know. The Ivys cast a real 'wide net' in recruiting. They talk to everybody . So, a piece of unsolicited suggestion/ advice here based on my personal experience:

You are NOT a serious recruit at an Ivy school unless you have been ran through admissions as  a 'pre read' . I'm not talking about the RC saying ' Your GPA and test scores look good. You look like a good fit'.

No, I want to be crystal clear. A pre-read is when The baseball dept vets you through admissions via the departments academic liaison. This is not a 'likely letter ' that is different. The pre read for my son took about 48 hours. They will ask for official HS transcripts and standardized test score results. Once you are deemed ' likely to be admitted' then admissions has signed off on you for the baseball guys to move forward recruiting the player.It then basically becomes a straight baseball deal. Meaning that if they want you and you want them...it's done.

So, no pre-read? You are NOT close.

I'm sort of trying to hammer this point home because players and parents spend WAY too much valuable time in the recruiting process chasing schools they will probably never get into academically or are not the right fit for the school from the baseball side.

When a school wants a player. They make their intentions clear. There is no ambiguity. They are aggressive and you KNOW they are on you.

While I'm already on a rant here, let me add another tidbit of info: If your son is a serious 'recruit' at a school and he is a 2018 or 2017  he is receiving regular phone calls , texts from the RC.

No regular phone calls/texts? You are NOT a serious recruit at that school.

RC's email 'Follows'.....They use the phone with serious prospects / recruits.

Ivy league RC phoned / texted my son weekly , bi-weekly throughout his Junior year in HS . And this was way before he did the pre-read .

It's extremely important for parents / players to learn how to define REAL interest. Most do not. There are several HSBBWEB members here that helped me with that. I will always be grateful to those guys

 

Anything I type here is just my opinion based on my own personal experience.

I like what you've said, pretty much applying the BS meter to the recruiting process with son and parent.  2018 will stay focused on his primary position, while continuing to hone craft, speed and strength.

Son took the ACT for the first time the past Saturday, that will provide another data point to see where he's at...

 

STRAINEDOBLIQUE said it "exactly" like it is, also based on personal experience. Ivy's are also looking for 90+ pitchers. Just because the schools are academic doesn't mean that they just want smart kids, they want kids that can play and then pass through admissions and you will known when they want your kid, like STRAINED said.

FourBases posted:

STRAINEDOBLIQUE said it "exactly" like it is, also based on personal experience. Ivy's are also looking for 90+ pitchers. Just because the schools are academic doesn't mean that they just want smart kids, they want kids that can play and then pass through admissions and you will known when they want your kid, like STRAINED said.

Can you share your personal experience?

The high academic D3's appear to operate exactly the same way as the Ivy's.  My 2017's interest from a couple of the elite schools played out exactly the same way with a request from the HC for a copy of the transcripts and test results to "run by" the admissions office.  One of them told him that they could not get a "yes" from that pre-read but could get a likely "no chance."  And sure enough, he has not heard back from that coach, so he knows the answer on that one.  The other one said go ahead and apply but it will be a close call.  My 2017 is not going to consider ED, so that means it will be months before he knows if he even got in.  By then that coach may have already gotten enough positive early reads that he may not be interested in him anymore.  So he is certainly pursuing multiple options.

And so it goes with the high academics.  I am not sure where my 2017 will wind up, but STRAINEDOBLIQUE really gave some excellent insight into the process.  For those of you with 2018's or younger aiming for the Ivy or other high academics, I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to take BOTH the SAT and ACT tests really early in their Junior year to allow retests.  My son did really well on the first SAT but then still improved about 10% on the retest and that got him into the discussion with some of these high academic schools.  He is hoping for the same result on the ACT he took last weekend.  And we talked to a kid at the Stanford camp who got a 30 on the first ACT in the Fall of junior year, retook it three months later and got a 32, then took it again in April and got a 34.  He told us he knew what he missed so he took it a fourth time in June and got a perfect 36.  He can now pretty much choose which of the elites he wants to play for (having a high 80's FB also helped him).  Most kids would have been satisfied with the 30 and not retaken it.  So with time on your side, if your son really wants to play baseball at one of these excellent schools, it takes a full commitment for the grades, tests and retests, and baseball ability to do it.

Backstop, thanks for the Intel... I wasn't thinking 2018 had to take both the SAT & ACT... Probably makes sense to figure out which test is a better fit...  30 years ago the SAT was the only test accepted for the high academics, now ACT seems to be the standard.

Good luck to your son.

Gov:  I am thinking since your son has time, he should take both the SAT and the ACT.  It definitely seems ACT has been the more recognized, but SAT just revised their test to be more like the ACT.  If he is striving for the high academics, having excellent scores on both tests cannot hurt and may actually help if he is right on the border. 

We are also finding some of the schools also value the SAT subject tests, particularly if he is thinking of a STEM major.  As we have been told, the subject test will not hurt but a great score can really help on a technical subject like Physics and Math.  Chasing a baseball dream at a high academic school is challenging and the coaches and the schools want to be sure the kid can handle the demands of both.

Backstop22 posted:

Gov:  I am thinking since your son has time, he should take both the SAT and the ACT.  It definitely seems ACT has been the more recognized, but SAT just revised their test to be more like the ACT.  If he is striving for the high academics, having excellent scores on both tests cannot hurt and may actually help if he is right on the border. 

We are also finding some of the schools also value the SAT subject tests, particularly if he is thinking of a STEM major.  As we have been told, the subject test will not hurt but a great score can really help on a technical subject like Physics and Math.  Chasing a baseball dream at a high academic school is challenging and the coaches and the schools want to be sure the kid can handle the demands of both.

Good stuff... Even if you have just the ACT, for some of the high academics don't you have to take two SAT Subject Tests?  Others here likely know, have to look that up... Think son is leaning on the financial-economics track...

No matter how many times I read posts like Strained's and the ones that follow, I still need to read them again. Kid is hoping for something and any shred of response from THE DESIRED OBJECTIVE fans the flame.  If there's tepid response, need to accept that the fire isn't there, and the matches are wet.

My 2017 has had exactly the same experience with the Div 3's he's interested in.  Some have faded away, a few have pre read his transcript and scores, and have greenlighted his admission.  The latter have stayed in constant, personal contact of one sort or another.

Thanks for the reminders!

One thing to remember is that a coach may send 20 pre-reads to admissions of potential recruits. The number of recruits for an Ivy for example may be 7 or 8, and the coaches already have on their board the prospects ranked. Lets say that all 20 come in with satisfactory pre-reads that means that the coach has 20 options and they will go according to their board rankings, so if the 7/8 top recruits decide to go to that school, the remainder recruits are out of luck. That is why regardless, you have to be on the view of other schools even if you are told that a pre-read has been done and came great. Or know where you are on the rankings. 

Gov- The Ivies (aside from the baseball side) rely heavily on the rigor of the transcript (give a strong look at APs) and the AP test scores, coupled with board SAT/ACT scores. While SAT subject tests no longer "appear to be "required" of the Ivies, they are strongly recommended (from a link I read that came out this summer). I think my son took 4. Georgetown, another non-Ivy high academic used to require three tests, though they have pared that back. Most will accept either the SAT or ACT.  A number of student-athletes take both tests in that their performance on one may be stronger than the other. Recruits strongly considering playing in the Ivy league should take the tests early. One Ivy Recruiter encouraged this, as a recruit may have another offer with a time constraint, and he may not know whether he'll get into the Ivy school (all the pieces not in place for a "pre-read.") As candidates try to pad their baseball resumes to send to schools (all city/county/MVP/ first team all star), my son noticed that having an excellent academic portfolio can change a candidate's standing on the board, break ties, and give a recruit a "second look."

FourBases posted:

 Or know where you are on the rankings. 

This is one tough thing to find out. A policy analysis professor of mine used to say, "Don't ask the question, if you can't stand the answer." RipkenFan Son at times wanted to think he was in the "mix" at several schools and thought such questions may bother RCs; he was hesitant.  Schools often keep a large enough pool, so they may not want to eliminate candidates early; or feel there is "still time" to find better.

Ripken you are absolutely right, it is a tough question to ask, and what you really want to hear from the beginning is that your name is the one with three starts next to it; if you are in the 7/8 top main list they will let you know, otherwise, assume that you are not. One sign that may be recognizable as good is how often and firm they ask about you and other schools and if you are going to visit them. The feeling is in how they continue after they say 'we sent your papers to admissions and they said that were great'.

Ripken Fan posted:
FourBases posted:

 Or know where you are on the rankings. 

This is one tough thing to find out. A policy analysis professor of mine used to say, "Don't ask the question, if you can't stand the answer." RipkenFan Son at times wanted to think he was in the "mix" at several schools and thought such questions may bother RCs; he was hesitant.  Schools often keep a large enough pool, so they may not want to eliminate candidates early; or feel there is "still time" to find better.

Sometimes it's easy.  2017 did one visit where a whiteboard was visible in HC's office, and we could see where his name was positioned.  But I guess allowing a player to see that could be deliberate.

FourBases posted:

One thing to remember is that a coach may send 20 pre-reads to admissions of potential recruits. The number of recruits for an Ivy for example may be 7 or 8, and the coaches already have on their board the prospects ranked. Lets say that all 20 come in with satisfactory pre-reads that means that the coach has 20 options and they will go according to their board rankings, so if the 7/8 top recruits decide to go to that school, the remainder recruits are out of luck. That is why regardless, you have to be on the view of other schools even if you are told that a pre-read has been done and came great. Or know where you are on the rankings. 

4Bases with numbers above, 7/8, the road is is definitely tougher for a position player. Typical recruiting class: 4 pitchers, OF, MI and either Corner Infielder with pop who can throw a couple of innings or C. Schools which have a higher number of recruits will increase the P, power hitters, and take a C each class.

 

Just to comment and add our experience and 2 cents FWIW...

- I believe Georgetown still STRONGLY recommends 3 SAT subject tests so not sure anything has been pared back.

- The Academic Index at the Ivies weights test scores more than GPA since schools and grades are so varied across our great nation.

- Most of the Ivies have 7 admission slots this year, with at least 1 having only 5.  Those are the guys getting admissions support and likely letters.  I do not agree with the above positional breakdown entirely, one can go on PG and see the current commits to most of these schools and see that the breakdown is different by school and by need.

- For P, velocity is still critical at Ivies; some of them won't look at someone under 90.

- Some have a few two way guys on their rosters, easily checked by looking at the rosters.  But they are few, and again it depends on the school.  High academic D3 seem to like the 2 ways guys a bit more in our experience.

- Be careful about taking the tests too many times.  Most Ivies ask for ALL scores to be sent.  They might consider the highest one but they see them all.  

- Also for the ACT, a 36 is extremely rare (I think it is like 1500 kids across the country with 3 million seniors).  That's why 33, 34, 35 and 36 composite scores are all 99th percentile.  Because so few kids get there.  Yale RC is on record as saying average score there is 31.  So you can do the math and know some kids are lower, some are higher.  Depends how much they want you as to how low.  I've seen a 26.

 

Backstop22 really laid out the game plan about 2018's seeking a fit in academic ball. It's all about TESTING. Prepping , Tests, re-tests and for parents terribly expensive tutors.

Also, I just sort of want to follow up my original post by saying. I'm reluctant at times to post about the realities of recruiting because I feel like I'm the 'grim reaper' . The reality of how offers come about and how schools recruit are cold and harsh. But it's the truth based on my experience.

I also believe that heart and determination go a LONG WAY. If a kid has enough of a skill set he can find a spot somewhere in college baseball if he grinds. Just my opinion.

The main things to remember is that these schools cast a 'wide net' .......Players need to do the same. Nationwide : D1, D2, D3 . Email from schools means NOTHING. RC's call real prospects.

If you are not in regular phone / text contact w/ school. They are NOT interested.

It's OK....Just move on! Because the RC's follow the same process. They like a guy, he commits to another school. They just move on to the next guy they like.

Harvard's ace ( a junior) was a 2-way player who also DH'ed , 6 HRs and hit over .300 in regular season. He was player of the week  in league this past week. He was listed as top MLB prospect pre-season in Ivy League. I can tell you when they played Yale, the interest (and radar guns) were out when he pitched, and not much attention to his ABs. 

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