I know I heard " I would bet my life that i have never put that substance in my body" The quote might not be exact but it is close.
do previous test failers get a "redo"--do they know where their urine sample traveled or whose kitchen table it sat on
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
do previous test failers get s "redo"--do they know where their urine sample traveled or whose kitchen table it sat on
Yes, they know where it traveled, because it wasn't messed up.
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:
Yes, they know where it traveled, because it wasn't messed up.
Yeah and the tester who stored it in his refrig, dropped in the synthetic testosterone he had on the shelf next to his orange juice. Give me a break!!!
Ryan Braun has not proved anything other than he is lucky.
There is no truth to the rumor that Bonds and Clemens are coming back to play for the Brewers! 
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
Yeah and the tester who stored it in his refrig, dropped in the synthetic testosterone he had on the shelf next to his orange juice. Give me a break!!!
Do you know where it was?
If I handled evidence like that at my job, I'd quite possibly be behind bars.
To be honest, if the chain of custody was not followed properly then the case should be thrown out.
There are specific rules for dealing with drug screening and they have to be followed, to protect both the institution and the player. I dealt with this kind of system for years in the military as well as in the medical field and it is extremely important to 'get it right' all the way to the lab.
Is Braun lucky that he got away with one? Yep, he sure is and he should shut up right now before he makes a bigger fool out of himself than he already has. There is a 99% chance that he whizzed hot on that test so acting like he is the victim doesn't make him look too smart. But the rules are in place to protect a ballplayer from specimin tampering and it helped Braun out-this time.
There are specific rules for dealing with drug screening and they have to be followed, to protect both the institution and the player. I dealt with this kind of system for years in the military as well as in the medical field and it is extremely important to 'get it right' all the way to the lab.
Is Braun lucky that he got away with one? Yep, he sure is and he should shut up right now before he makes a bigger fool out of himself than he already has. There is a 99% chance that he whizzed hot on that test so acting like he is the victim doesn't make him look too smart. But the rules are in place to protect a ballplayer from specimin tampering and it helped Braun out-this time.
Why would someone want to temper with it? What could his motive possible be?
What would be the motive for Braun to use PED? hmmm
What would be the motive for Braun to use PED? hmmm
Oh, there are reasons to tamper with something.
Maybe the person collecting the test hates the Brewers or is a Cardinal fan. Maybe someone slipped the tester a grand or two to make Braun fail the test. Maybe the guy just got sloppy and screwed up the samples.
Do I think that any of this happened? Nope, I am willing to bet that Braun probably did something and is getting off on a technicality. The reason such procedures were put into effect was to prevent such a technicality from happening. That is why chain of custody is so important and has to be followed.
Maybe the person collecting the test hates the Brewers or is a Cardinal fan. Maybe someone slipped the tester a grand or two to make Braun fail the test. Maybe the guy just got sloppy and screwed up the samples.
Do I think that any of this happened? Nope, I am willing to bet that Braun probably did something and is getting off on a technicality. The reason such procedures were put into effect was to prevent such a technicality from happening. That is why chain of custody is so important and has to be followed.
There's nothing that can be done other than rule him not guilty. If Braun's attornies got him off on a technicality he's still going to hear it in the court of public opinion. If Braun was genuinely innocent it's a horrible price to pay. If Braun doesn't put up .300-30-100 this year there will be a lot of "I told you so" from the media and baseball fan base.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
There's nothing that can be done other than rule him not guilty. If Braun's attornies got him off on a technicality he's still going to hear it in the court of public opinion. If Braun was genuinely innocent it's a horrible price to pay. If Braun doesn't put up .300-30-100 this year there will be a lot of "I told you so" from the media and baseball fan base.
He'll probably claim it was all the distractions that caused him to drop off.
quote:* Political correctness is a doctrine – fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rapidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media – which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of **** by the clean end. *
RJM, I don't know who to attribute that quote to but it's very good!
I don't believe Braun is innocent by any means. However, I do agree with the Bob Costas comment about never witnessing a more articulate, believable statement of innocence than Braun orchestrated.
To bring this topic closer to home, it brought some real clarity to a conversation I had to have with my 2015 son. Now that he's in High School and done with basketball, he just recently started lifting weights after school for the first time. Wanting to bulk-up and make the most of his efforts he asked me to get him some post-workout protein shakes like his friends were taking. When i went to the Vitamin Shoppe the sales person started showing me all the pre-workout supplements as well and describing how they worked. The first thing I thought of was "how many of these contain banned substances", and when I started reading the word rage and other such adjectives in their names I figured probably most of them. I of course didn't buy any of them but had a discussion with my son about what I had seen. He told me one of his most trusted friends had some and gave him a couple to try, let's just say he thought I may have over reacted a bit. Bottom line is this story provided the perfect backdrop as to why you don't take anything from anyone PERIOD!!! We are now on the same page.
Be happy he was honest with you about it.
A lot of kids have no idea what the potential is in even over the counter enhancers.
One thing working in an ICU on a military base has shown me is that young males will do a lot of things that can cause serious damage to their bodies without realizing it.
A good example is of a young soldier I took care of a couple of years ago. This trooper was getting ready for a PT test (fitness test) and decided that he needed to train up. So he went out, got a bunch of creatine and hit the weight room. He of course tried to nail it too hard, didn't drink enough water and with the creatine he ended up in Rhabodomylosis.
He ended up with fasciotomies in both legs because of all the swelling, had kidney failure and came pretty close to dying. The kid, if I remember right about 22, managed to pull through and won't have any perminant damage because, thank God, he was 22 and his kidneys were able to recover. But he came close.....
His is not the only case we see. I've seen some even worse, some where the kid died. The last one was 19 years old and he didn't make it.
This is a good time to sit down and talk with the boys about PEDs and even over the counter stuff and to inform them of the risks. Even seeminly harmless supplements can cause problems, especially if instructions aren't followed.
A lot of kids have no idea what the potential is in even over the counter enhancers.
One thing working in an ICU on a military base has shown me is that young males will do a lot of things that can cause serious damage to their bodies without realizing it.
A good example is of a young soldier I took care of a couple of years ago. This trooper was getting ready for a PT test (fitness test) and decided that he needed to train up. So he went out, got a bunch of creatine and hit the weight room. He of course tried to nail it too hard, didn't drink enough water and with the creatine he ended up in Rhabodomylosis.
He ended up with fasciotomies in both legs because of all the swelling, had kidney failure and came pretty close to dying. The kid, if I remember right about 22, managed to pull through and won't have any perminant damage because, thank God, he was 22 and his kidneys were able to recover. But he came close.....
His is not the only case we see. I've seen some even worse, some where the kid died. The last one was 19 years old and he didn't make it.
This is a good time to sit down and talk with the boys about PEDs and even over the counter stuff and to inform them of the risks. Even seeminly harmless supplements can cause problems, especially if instructions aren't followed.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
Be happy he was honest with you about it.
A lot of kids have no idea what the potential is in even over the counter enhancers.
One thing working in an ICU on a military base has shown me is that young males will do a lot of things that can cause serious damage to their bodies without realizing it.
A good example is of a young soldier I took care of a couple of years ago. This trooper was getting ready for a PT test (fitness test) and decided that he needed to train up. So he went out, got a bunch of creatine and hit the weight room. He of course tried to nail it too hard, didn't drink enough water and with the creatine he ended up in Rhabodomylosis.
He ended up with fasciotomies in both legs because of all the swelling, had kidney failure and came pretty close to dying. The kid, if I remember right about 22, managed to pull through and won't have any perminant damage because, thank God, he was 22 and his kidneys were able to recover. But he came close.....
His is not the only case we see. I've seen some even worse, some where the kid died. The last one was 19 years old and he didn't make it.
This is a good time to sit down and talk with the boys about PEDs and even over the counter stuff and to inform them of the risks. Even seeminly harmless supplements can cause problems, especially if instructions aren't followed.
Were you around in the bad old days before ephedra was banned? I remember five-six fatalities in one summer alone.
Braun tested for ELEVATED test levels not a specific drug. I really wish people would educate themselves on this subject.
I dont think that all test specimens were left on a desk for 2 days.Evidently something went wrong and now MLB is trying to cover their **s
quote:Originally posted by oldmanmoses:
Braun tested for ELEVATED test levels not a specific drug. I really wish people would educate themselves on this subject.
Oldman I believe the reports were for "synthetic" testosterone. I really wish people would read more carefully.....
Actually in all our defense all of the information we get is second hand from “anonymous” sources. In the end we will never know, just like OJ Simpson.
Sorry for maybe sounding anything but what i meant to convey which was we should all just really not jump to conclusions and skewer people because the letters ped results in an attitude akin to the McCarthy era. Dont get me wrong, real PED abuse is wrong, but there are occasions where people legitimatly are in the right but will not be believed.
quote:Originally posted by hokieone:
Braun in my humble opinion could do himself a ton of good if he'd simply hold a press conference, explain exactly what he took and why-is that so hard to do? It's not hard if you have a plausible explanation. Anything short of that and I'll continue to believe he got caught, but got off, and will pay in the form of year long fan abuse...but in his home park, a couple tape measure shots will quiet the masses.
He's explained the circumstances to his teammates. They are satisfied. MLB has let him go. That may be all that matters to him.
This isn't difficult.
Federal Anabolic Steroid Control Acts of 1990 make it a FEDERAL crime (except for legitimate reasons). Simple. The link has a list of the substances under Schedule III.
http://www.criminalattorney.co...anabolic_steroid.htm
When somebody is nailed like Manny treat it as a legal matter and when the guy is done serving his sentence the 50 game suspension kicks in.
I have no idea about Braun but legally prosecute enough offenders and most guys would get the point.
Federal Anabolic Steroid Control Acts of 1990 make it a FEDERAL crime (except for legitimate reasons). Simple. The link has a list of the substances under Schedule III.
http://www.criminalattorney.co...anabolic_steroid.htm
When somebody is nailed like Manny treat it as a legal matter and when the guy is done serving his sentence the 50 game suspension kicks in.
I have no idea about Braun but legally prosecute enough offenders and most guys would get the point.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
He's explained the circumstances to his teammates. They are satisfied. MLB has let him go. That may be all that matters to him.
I'll go along with this. It's over. What bothers me the most of this whole thing is that those initial results were leaked to the press by somebody. Who put it out there? That's simply not right. Ryan Braun, along with every other MLB player, has a valid reason to be very mad about that.
And that was a great speech yesterday.
I've been having difficulty discerning exactly what information was before the arbitrator who tipped the scales in Braun's favor.
Apparently the sample collector disregarded sample protocol for a period of days, during which time he came into possession of a number of player samples. This raised serious questions in my mind about (a) whether the sample that tested positive was actually Braun's, and (b) why the collector apparently deliberately disregarded procedures. Apparently Braun's lawyers also presented substantial evidence of the ease with which samples can become tainted. No one had any affirmative evidence of tainting taking place, but the deviation from protocol raised a question as to what the heck the collector was doing or thinking during the time when he had no reason to be hanging on to the samples in the first place.
The additional evidence is that Braun shows none of the physical signs of PED use, and his performance was not unusual for someone of his age with his career track to date.
I honestly don't know if he did this or not. I can say that if someone were convicted in a criminal court on this kind of evidence I would certainly hope the case would be overturned on appeal. MLB would say this is not a criminal case, the burden of proof is not as high, and in fact as far as MLB is concerned Braun should be the one with the burden to prove his innocence, as opposed to MLB having to prove him guilty.
On that latter point, I think MLB's stance is offensive and indefensible.
I also think there is something wrong going on when MLB personnel deliberately leak the Braun positive test in knowing violation of their legal obligations.
That says to me that if the Commissioner's office is eating crow, they deserve that in spades.
It doesn't really answer the question about whether Braun did or did not use testosterone, but since there will never be any further development of evidence in the case, this is as good as it's going to ever get.
So, you can form your own opinion. But if you are starting from the presumption that he's guilty and you think he somehow cheated the system, honestly I think you need to open your eyes a little wider. To me this was a very close call and I'm not sure how I would've come down had I been the arbitrator.
Which makes me think maybe the arbitrator felt the same way, and also rejected MLB's arguments on who bore the burden of proof, and that's why he ruled for Braun in the end.
Apparently the sample collector disregarded sample protocol for a period of days, during which time he came into possession of a number of player samples. This raised serious questions in my mind about (a) whether the sample that tested positive was actually Braun's, and (b) why the collector apparently deliberately disregarded procedures. Apparently Braun's lawyers also presented substantial evidence of the ease with which samples can become tainted. No one had any affirmative evidence of tainting taking place, but the deviation from protocol raised a question as to what the heck the collector was doing or thinking during the time when he had no reason to be hanging on to the samples in the first place.
The additional evidence is that Braun shows none of the physical signs of PED use, and his performance was not unusual for someone of his age with his career track to date.
I honestly don't know if he did this or not. I can say that if someone were convicted in a criminal court on this kind of evidence I would certainly hope the case would be overturned on appeal. MLB would say this is not a criminal case, the burden of proof is not as high, and in fact as far as MLB is concerned Braun should be the one with the burden to prove his innocence, as opposed to MLB having to prove him guilty.
On that latter point, I think MLB's stance is offensive and indefensible.
I also think there is something wrong going on when MLB personnel deliberately leak the Braun positive test in knowing violation of their legal obligations.
That says to me that if the Commissioner's office is eating crow, they deserve that in spades.
It doesn't really answer the question about whether Braun did or did not use testosterone, but since there will never be any further development of evidence in the case, this is as good as it's going to ever get.
So, you can form your own opinion. But if you are starting from the presumption that he's guilty and you think he somehow cheated the system, honestly I think you need to open your eyes a little wider. To me this was a very close call and I'm not sure how I would've come down had I been the arbitrator.
Which makes me think maybe the arbitrator felt the same way, and also rejected MLB's arguments on who bore the burden of proof, and that's why he ruled for Braun in the end.
I wouldn't trust anything at GNC. Several suspended players used the excuse the guy at GNC said it was ok. I got my son protein at Whole Foods.quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
To bring this topic closer to home, it brought some real clarity to a conversation I had to have with my 2015 son. Now that he's in High School and done with basketball, he just recently started lifting weights after school for the first time. Wanting to bulk-up and make the most of his efforts he asked me to get him some post-workout protein shakes like his friends were taking. When i went to the Vitamin Shoppe the sales person started showing me all the pre-workout supplements as well and describing how they worked. The first thing I thought of was "how many of these contain banned substances", and when I started reading the word rage and other such adjectives in their names I figured probably most of them. I of course didn't buy any of them but had a discussion with my son about what I had seen. He told me one of his most trusted friends had some and gave him a couple to try, let's just say he thought I may have over reacted a bit. Bottom line is this story provided the perfect backdrop as to why you don't take anything from anyone PERIOD!!! We are now on the same page.
I found it in a recent Gary Shapiro article on Townhall.com. His attribution was he's seen it on the internet several times without attribution.quote:Originally posted by Prime9:quote:* Political correctness is a doctrine – fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rapidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media – which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of **** by the clean end. *
RJM, I don't know who to attribute that quote to but it's very good!
I don't believe Braun is innocent by any means. However, I do agree with the Bob Costas comment about never witnessing a more articulate, believable statement of innocence than Braun orchestrated.
Do you mean like the one hundred players who volunteered for anonymous testing? Look at the shows on television. We live in a gossip laden society. It's not right a big name has no chance of anonymity.quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
He's explained the circumstances to his teammates. They are satisfied. MLB has let him go. That may be all that matters to him.
I'll go along with this. It's over. What bothers me the most of this whole thing is that those initial results were leaked to the press by somebody. Who put it out there? That's simply not right. Ryan Braun, along with every other MLB player, has a valid reason to be very mad about that.
And that was a great speech yesterday.
Yes, like the pictures of Whitney Houston in her casket... nothing is sacred, any more. 
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
He's explained the circumstances to his teammates. They are satisfied. MLB has let him go. That may be all that matters to him.
I'll go along with this. It's over. What bothers me the most of this whole thing is that those initial results were leaked to the press by somebody. Who put it out there? That's simply not right. Ryan Braun, along with every other MLB player, has a valid reason to be very mad about that.
And that was a great speech yesterday.
It was a well-delivered statement from a bright guy. If the initial results had not been leaked, then he would have been cleared and the public would have not known.
quote:If the initial results had not been leaked. He would have been cleared and the public would have not known.
I gotta say... Didn't the testers know their own rules. Once that specimin came in late it should have been disposed of or labeled faulty. Instead it was tested and the results were leaked. Then MLB threw out the suspension based on the test results of something that should have been disposed of.
No matter how much someone likes Braun, his life will never be the same. For every one person who thinks he is innocent there will be 99 who think otherwise.
Don't even know what to think about all this. What a cluster!
i SMELL LAWSUITS GALORE IN THIS ONE
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
Be happy he was honest with you about it.
A lot of kids have no idea what the potential is in even over the counter enhancers.
One thing working in an ICU on a military base has shown me is that young males will do a lot of things that can cause serious damage to their bodies without realizing it.
A good example is of a young soldier I took care of a couple of years ago. This trooper was getting ready for a PT test (fitness test) and decided that he needed to train up. So he went out, got a bunch of creatine and hit the weight room. He of course tried to nail it too hard, didn't drink enough water and with the creatine he ended up in Rhabodomylosis.
He ended up with fasciotomies in both legs because of all the swelling, had kidney failure and came pretty close to dying. The kid, if I remember right about 22, managed to pull through and won't have any perminant damage because, thank God, he was 22 and his kidneys were able to recover. But he came close.....
His is not the only case we see. I've seen some even worse, some where the kid died. The last one was 19 years old and he didn't make it.
This is a good time to sit down and talk with the boys about PEDs and even over the counter stuff and to inform them of the risks. Even seeminly harmless supplements can cause problems, especially if instructions aren't followed.
Were you around in the bad old days before ephedra was banned? I remember five-six fatalities in one summer alone.
Yep, I was an ER nurse at that time. At Fort Carson. We had several cardiac arrest deaths due to that drug. Most were 28 year olds trying to reach that magical height weight ratio so they wouldn't be put on the 'Fat Boy' program in the Army.
I always hated the height weight standards and that was one reason. We had guys that could run a 13 minute two mile but would not make height weight and would be on the overweight program. The fear made guys hit those kinds of supplements.
Four Lokko was banned here, last year. Kids were going koo koo after drinking it.
What do you think about Red Bull, Monster and 5 hour energy drink? I see those things littered all over schools- ball fields included. Now, they even have caffeine inhalers at the corner stores.
What do you think about Red Bull, Monster and 5 hour energy drink? I see those things littered all over schools- ball fields included. Now, they even have caffeine inhalers at the corner stores.
I hate them but I suppose they probably aren't that much worse than the three cups of coffee I used to drink in high school.
I started on that at around 12. Luckily my son doesn't seem to have any desire to drink anything like coffee or the energy drinks. I am not sure he has ever drank one. I would be afraid to see what would happen if he did drink one.
I started on that at around 12. Luckily my son doesn't seem to have any desire to drink anything like coffee or the energy drinks. I am not sure he has ever drank one. I would be afraid to see what would happen if he did drink one.
Baseball is behind many other sports in testing for PEDs, and there is a positive aspect of that: procedures for testing, including collection, storage, and transport of samples already exist. For most sports, the rules are defined by the World Anti-Doping Agency. I believe that the baseball procedures closely resemble the WADA Rules (see urine sample collection) , but of course the actual rules for baseball may be different. The WADA protocol is pretty detailed, and I certainly don't know if it (or baseball's presumably similar protocol) was followed. However, while it is preferred that samples are delivered to the courier on the day of collection, it is not required. It isn't required because it is often impractical, and experience shows us that doping athletes will take advantage of the "holes" in courier schedules. If an athlete knows he won't be tested for e.g. 48 hours (because courier service isn't available), that's when he'll dope.quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Apparently the sample collector disregarded sample protocol for a period of days, during which time he came into possession of a number of player samples. This raised serious questions in my mind about (a) whether the sample that tested positive was actually Braun's, and (b) why the collector apparently deliberately disregarded procedures. Apparently Braun's lawyers also presented substantial evidence of the ease with which samples can become tainted. No one had any affirmative evidence of tainting taking place, but the deviation from protocol raised a question as to what the heck the collector was doing or thinking during the time when he had no reason to be hanging on to the samples in the first place.
[snip]
I honestly don't know if he did this or not. I can say that if someone were convicted in a criminal court on this kind of evidence I would certainly hope the case would be overturned on appeal. MLB would say this is not a criminal case, the burden of proof is not as high, and in fact as far as MLB is concerned Braun should be the one with the burden to prove his innocence, as opposed to MLB having to prove him guilty.
On that latter point, I think MLB's stance is offensive and indefensible.
I also think there is something wrong going on when MLB personnel deliberately leak the Braun positive test in knowing violation of their legal obligations.
That says to me that if the Commissioner's office is eating crow, they deserve that in spades.
It doesn't really answer the question about whether Braun did or did not use testosterone, but since there will never be any further development of evidence in the case, this is as good as it's going to ever get.
So, you can form your own opinion. But if you are starting from the presumption that he's guilty and you think he somehow cheated the system, honestly I think you need to open your eyes a little wider. To me this was a very close call and I'm not sure how I would've come down had I been the arbitrator.
Which makes me think maybe the arbitrator felt the same way, and also rejected MLB's arguments on who bore the burden of proof, and that's why he ruled for Braun in the end.
The chain of custody is also handled a little differently than ordinary crime evidence, because the the evidence (the urine) is collected under standard conditions and with the cooperation of the athlete. The vial is sealed (tamper-proof) and signed by the athlete, and then put into a tamper-proof package, along with paperwork, and chain of custody documents. Of course a rogue DCO (doping control officer) could try to tamper with the sample, but I don't know of any athlete who has mounted a defense against doping charges by alleging that the samples were tampered with before analysis. There is enough DNA in urine to determine whose urine is involved, although that is seldom done on collected samples. DNA tests have been employed in blood doping investigations, where the blood in question was not collected with the athlete's cooperation, but I doubt that would be attempted by baseball players.
If baseball does use similar rules, I'm not sure how the arbitrator concluded that the protocol had been breached. Maybe the DCO didn't keep the samples under his control before sending them by courier.
Regarding burden of proof, think of this as similar to DNA evidence. While a defendant might challenge the sampling of DNA at a crime scene and the chain of custody for that evidence, few would undertake to challenge the DNA characterization of his own blood based on chain of custody. In doping testing, the "adverse analytical finding" is a very good indication of doping, and once an AAF has been found, the burden of proof does shift to the athlete. The system depends on the combination of the integrity of the DCO, combined with tamper proof packaging.
3FG,
My understanding (of what I read) was that the "collector" could have gone to another Fedex (24 hour) but since they do not ship on the weekend, he brought it home, which is allowed (as you stated) according to MLBPA. It was delivered seal unbroken with signature so I can't see how it could have been tampered with, (these guys aren't in it to frame anyone are they) but the better argument by a good attorney, was that it may not have been kept in a cool place (doesn't have to be refrigerated). Why that would show levels of synthetic testosterone, I have no clue. Does anyone?
So the mistake, I am to imagine, was that MLB allows for the holding of samples, which would make a good argument by a good attorney.
I guess, after all is said and done, there will be no more testing unless the sample can be received the very next day.
My understanding (of what I read) was that the "collector" could have gone to another Fedex (24 hour) but since they do not ship on the weekend, he brought it home, which is allowed (as you stated) according to MLBPA. It was delivered seal unbroken with signature so I can't see how it could have been tampered with, (these guys aren't in it to frame anyone are they) but the better argument by a good attorney, was that it may not have been kept in a cool place (doesn't have to be refrigerated). Why that would show levels of synthetic testosterone, I have no clue. Does anyone?
So the mistake, I am to imagine, was that MLB allows for the holding of samples, which would make a good argument by a good attorney.
I guess, after all is said and done, there will be no more testing unless the sample can be received the very next day.
It's definitely an interesting case. From what I have read, the collector followed protocols as written. I am not sure what evidence there is available that led the arbitrator to rule in favor of Braun. That is what I would like to know..
All it took was the sample getting outside the normal protocol of handling. It makes the sample/evidence susceptible to who knows what. It's your beyond reason of doubt out the window.quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
It's definitely an interesting case. From what I have read, the collector followed protocols as written. I am not sure what evidence there is available that led the arbitrator to rule in favor of Braun. That is what I would like to know..
Regardless of whether or not Braun used PEDs, it's the same legal consideration anyone here would want if charged with a crime.
quote:All it took was the sample getting outside the normal protocol of handling. It makes the sample/evidence susceptible to who knows what. It's your beyond reason of doubt out the window.
Apparently it is acceptable for the collector to take it home with him to keep secured prior to shipping.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:I wouldn't trust anything at GNC. Several suspended players used the excuse the guy at GNC said it was ok. I got my son protein at Whole Foods.quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
To bring this topic closer to home, it brought some real clarity to a conversation I had to have with my 2015 son. Now that he's in High School and done with basketball, he just recently started lifting weights after school for the first time. Wanting to bulk-up and make the most of his efforts he asked me to get him some post-workout protein shakes like his friends were taking. When i went to the Vitamin Shoppe the sales person started showing me all the pre-workout supplements as well and describing how they worked. The first thing I thought of was "how many of these contain banned substances", and when I started reading the word rage and other such adjectives in their names I figured probably most of them. I of course didn't buy any of them but had a discussion with my son about what I had seen. He told me one of his most trusted friends had some and gave him a couple to try, let's just say he thought I may have over reacted a bit. Bottom line is this story provided the perfect backdrop as to why you don't take anything from anyone PERIOD!!! We are now on the same page.
GNC hasn't sold the "real" bad stuff for quite a while. A bum excuse by pros that were juicing.
FWIW, 99% of GNC salespeople are worthless though. Do your own research on what you plan to buy there before you go, because not only do they not know anything, they also often have a commission based agenda for you.
The FDA has really cracked down on supplements in the past couple years. The days of spiked supplements and the like is over. Look for GMP certification on supplement labels and you're definitely fine.