Sabathia

Seems like it.

The man is burnt, JMO. But it IS a TEAM game, he needs support.

Game would have been different if he got the stike out calls

I don't think it is either.
My view is the Phillies had a great scouting report and the Phillies hitters executed it almost to perfection. They made Sabathia throw a lot of pitches by being patient and commanding the strike zone.
They worked things into hitters counts, they put pressure on Sabathia on very pitch to every hitter including the pitcher, and then they executed.
Sometimes the hitters do their job better than the pitcher and I think this is one of those times. Combine that with good advance scouting reports for a great hitting team like the Phillies and I give them the credit for getting the job done against one of the very top pitchers in baseball.

CC is not burnt---he is allowed to have an off day after 11-2

Infielddad,
You most likely are correct in the respect that they scouted him heavily and the hitters are doing a great job.


However, if anyone thinks that he isn't laboring due to that one short recovery period, I have to disagree.

Just came from the game. I didn't think he was that bad. If it wasn't for that one pitch phils lose 2-1.

I think is was more of a game plan than a scouting report. Everyone who follows baseball knew CC's last 4 or 5 starts were on 3 days rest. He is wearing down. He admitted after the game that he could not hit his spots, his words were " I couldn't finish". His arm has to be tired. So you try to make him throw as many pitches as possible. The Phils did a great job executing the plan.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

However, if anyone thinks that he isn't laboring due to that one short recovery period, I have to disagree.

Yesterday was his fourth consecutive start on short rest. In the previous three, he gave up two earned runs in 21 2/3 innings. Sure, you can make the argument that it's catching up with him, but I don't think you can make the argument he is "laboring due to that one short recovery period". Yes, there is evidence that he could be drained (look at last year and the way he was used down the stretch this year). But it's hard for me to say he's been dominant on short rest for two weeks and now he's hit the wall. Could he come out in game five and look like toast? Sure. Could he come out firing and look great? I don't see why not.

As a side note, I think there is a general problem with perception versus reality in the playoffs. If a player (especially young player) plays poorly, well then he was overwhelmed by the big stage of the playoffs. But if he has a great game, then he handled the pressure well. When really, I think it's more just that a player had a good or bad game or series. How can any casual observer (or especially sportscasters) make the determination as to whether a player was overwhelmed by the moment, or whether he just didn't have it that day?

quote:

If a player (especially young player) plays poorly, well then he was overwhelmed by the big stage of the playoffs. But if he has a great game, then he handled the pressure well. When really, I think it's more just that a player had a good or bad game or series. How can any casual observer (or especially sportscasters) make the determination as to whether a player was overwhelmed by the moment, or whether he just didn't have it that day?

Amen to that!! It cracks me up when they say things like that about young players but don't seem to notice when established stars have bad games, there is more luck involved than some people seem to want to admit. Some days a pitcher is throwing great but has some bad luck and gives up runs, the next time out he's not throwing so great but everything is working in his favor and everyone THINKS he was awesome?

IMHO. Toward the bottom of the gene pool are "Armchair quarterbacks" and the media who base their opinions on 1 outing or thinking they know the physical make-up of a player, his drive, or his heart. I'm a true blue Brewer fan who has listened and read the "burnt" bs all morning and the concensus in our area is the Phils had a great game plan and that if the Crew scores a few first inning runs, the emotion of the game may have been different. You don't win many games with 3 hits!

Most players playing in October are burned, tired, sore, and not playing at mid-season form. That's why many times you will see those "no-names" come through. JMO

Another thing to consider---are the Brewers in the playoffs without him ? I don't think so !!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Another thing to consider---are the Brewers in the playoffs without him ? I don't think so !!!

Are the Dodgers in without Manny? The premise of mid-season aquisitions is to put teams "over the bump". At mid-season the Brewers were legit playoff contenders without CC, when he was aquired they became a legit WS contender. The Brewer real problem was the inability to change their approach at the plate, and that sticks out like a sore thumb now.

Exactly. You're not going to win many games scoring 1-2 runs/game. Ask the Cubs.

I don't care who you are, you can't throw a shutout every time out.

What uni will CC be wearing next season?
I think he would look pretty good in Angel Red!