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104 replies

Should academics ALWAYS come first?

S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
It's very common on this site to read advice about putting academics first and making sure our young men have a degree to fall back on when the long odds against making it to the majors eventually put an end to their baseball dreams.

I wonder if we aren't doing our kids a disservice by discouraging their dreams and steering them toward "safe" lives with practical degrees that lead to steady jobs. What if that's not the life they want, and what if they would rather pursue their dreams full out instead of doing what we risk-averse parents expect of them? Aren't we limiting their development as men when we tell them not to chase their dreams? Is it wrong for a young man to put baseball ahead of academics if he's willing to accept the consequences of that choice?

When my son made his college decision this summer, he was initially tempted by an offer from a prestigious academic school to which he couldn't have gained admission on the strength of his grades and test scores without an assist from the baseball coach. However, he eventually realized he wanted a school with good academics, but not one with great academics. Then he surprised me further by telling me he wants to make acceptable progress toward a degree, but he's quite willing to leave school after three or four years without completing it. His reasoning? He really, really wants to find out how good a ball player he can be. He intends to be 100% committed to baseball in college, and he doesn't want an overly rigorous academic load to get in the way of his baseball development. He doesn't ever want to be a middle aged guy wondering how good he might have been. He says he can handle the possibilities of never starting in college or not getting drafted or not rising in the minors--but only if he knows he's given baseball his absolute best shot. He can accept failure, but only if that's the result of total effort. He's willing to be the 25 year old finishing his degree after a pro career didn't pan out, but he's not willing to reduce his time in the weight room if that's what it takes to graduate "on time." He can always go back to finish school, but he only has one chance to be a ball player.

Even now as he begins his senior year in high school, he's not focused on academics. He does just enough work to get a 3.5 GPA to keep me off his back, he takes just enough advanced courses to keep me from saying he has a slacker schedule, and he spends all his spare time working out because that's what he really wants to do.

As a dad who did put school first and played football to no distinction at a seriously rigorous academic-centered school, I'm starting to think he might be showing greater wisdom by putting the baseball goals he has chosen for himself ahead of the academic goals I might have chosen for him. I'm really surprised to find myself respecting his decision.

Maybe academics shouldn't always come first. Maybe it's okay to make school take a back seat for a few years.

What do others think?
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M monstor34410+ posts
Academics should DEFINITELY come first...But I feel like in your son's situation he chose a school where he has still established academics as his top priority in that he is going to a good school while at the same time fulfilling his criteria in other areas. I think there is a difference between using athletics to get into the most prestigious school possible and going somewhere that suits your son the best while at the same time providing a solid education. I think he made the right choice. In my mind problems only arise when a kid goes to a school that is below where his academics dictate he should be just because a school is offering him the college baseball opportunity.

If you don't mind saying though, what top academic school offered him and what school did he end up picking?
Last edited by monstor344
observer44observer441,000+ posts
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First, Not an either or...Every situation and decision making process is unique. There is no pefect template...no universal rules. The factors in any decison are many....cost, goals, social, geographical, housing, alumni network, visibility, financial, financial aid, passion, emotional, academic, family needs, baseball, coaching, life experience, gut, IMO you and your son have to decide what is the best mix for your family. What my seem wrong to one may be the best fit for another. You have to honestly and realistically know your son and his passion and goals, your family, the program, your goals, your limitations, your finances.

Second, As a result there are not always simple either or answers, for the vast majority the decision is a series of trade offs, pro's and con's...which is one of the reasons that it is so hard to decide...only a fortunate few get exactly what they want. While it may seem at times that the majority do...that is not the case.

Third, even with the best laid plans and exhaustive research what you see, may not, in the end be what you get. Regardless of the decision you have to be ready to adapt, adjust and deal with it. The decison is most often not an ending point but rather a starting one. Like the DJ says, The hits just keep on comin'...

Cool
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fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
As a parent, my job is to mentor and guide my son to become all they he can be based on his strengths/weaknesses and long term goals. I feel very passionate about that for my 18 year son as well as my two younger ones.

Based upon everything swampboy has shared with us, I know there are schools out there that will meet his son's needs of baseball first and education second. I agree for some kids the preferred path may be to pursue professional sports while others want to become Drs, lawyers, engineers, etc.... Opportunities to go down a professional sports path is just as slight as an opportunity to pursue a prestiguous university degree. Again, our job as parents is to help guide them and show them the differences when appropriate. Show your son the path where he has the best chance for success, and he can understand the risks & rewards.
Last edited by fenwaysouth
wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
This question becomes much more difficult when athletics come easily, and academics are much harder for your kid. An athletic career is so high risk, that you just don't want to succumb to the temptation of letting go of the fall-back plan. For those kids, we may be saying "academics must come first", when we're really meaning "you just can't take your shot at athletics without securing your education as well".
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by observer44:
.
First, Not an either or...Every situation and decision making process is unique. There is no pefect template...no universal rules. The factors in any decison are many....cost, goals, social, geographical, housing, alumni network, visibility, financial, financial aid, passion, emotional, academic, family needs, baseball, coaching, life experience, gut, IMO you and your son have to decide what is the best mix for your family. What my seem wrong to one may be the best fit for another. You have to honestly and realistically know your son and his passion and goals, your family, the program, your goals, your limitations, your finances.

Second, As a result there are not always simple either or answers, for the vast majority the decision is a series of trade offs, pro's and con's...which is one of the reasons that it is so hard to decide...only a fortunate few get exactly what they want. While it may seem at times that the majority do...that is not the case.

Third, even with the best laid plans and exhaustive research what you see, may not, in the end be what you get. Regardless of the decision you have to be ready to adapt, adjust and deal with it. The decison is most often not an ending point but rather a starting one. Like the DJ says, The hits just keep on comin'...

Cool
.



This topic comes up here from time to time and it always interests me and usually leads to strong passions on both sides of the argument...

That said... I think many view baseball as a frivolous activity where I am not sure it is any different (or less worthy of a pursuit) than other forms of entertainment. We have members here that argue that academics is first and foremost yet they spend countless hours here on a baseball website. I think it is more important than they are willing to admit.

I spent many trips in the LA area and there are many degreed kids out there waiting tables in hopes of becoming the next Tom Cruise or Julia Roberts. How many consider using a UCLA film school degree to wait tables a frivolous activity? Is pursuing an acting career frivolous? Is pursing a career in film (behind the scenes) also frivolous after the dream of appearing on the "big" screen has ended.

We often see advice here that kids should pick a college as if baseball were not involved. What if your kid wanted to be a musician or an artist? Would you tell them to pick a school assuming music or art were not involved? Moreover, why do kids almost ALWAYS transfer when the baseball does not work out to their liking (even though they picked their school as if baseball was not involved)? All rhetorical questions to be sure but there is no shame in admitting that baseball is a worthwhile activity imho. Not everyone gets to play in the big leagues but there are other ways of making baseball a satisfying and worthwhile career (for those whose passions steer them that way). Like ob44 said above, these are deeply personal questions that need answered and they cannot be answered from the outside or from a set of pre-crafted rules (e.g., academics ALWAYS comes first).
Last edited by ClevelandDad
PD PA Dino500+ posts
quote:
I wonder if we aren't doing our kids a disservice by discouraging their dreams and steering them toward "safe" lives with practical degrees that lead to steady jobs.


I don't think the two necessarily go together. You can get a practical degree that will lead to a steady job without sacrificing your dreams.

As far as the premise of your post.....academics aren't that important and can take a back seat....I can't disagree more.

The student-athlete model is already falling apart at many schools because the institutions themselves are undermining it with compromises. The student-athlete's intellectual development is hugely important. I would suggest the following:

No athletic scholarships period. Only academic based scholarships for student-athletes.

Penalties for low graduation rates.

Athletic elegibility tied to academic progress.

College is suppose to be a higher level of education, not an excuse to "chase" dreams. You can't eat dreams, dreams don't provide health care, dreams don't pay taxes, mortgages or provide for your kids. An education will probably do all those things. You can't count on the dream any more than you would winning the powerball. You still buy the tickets....but you don't count on it.

My son, a student-athlete, has a baseball dream. But he has a committment and responsibility to lay a foundation for his future. One that can be trusted to hold the framework of his life, and his future family. I hope he takes that seriously.

There are parts of what you wrote that make me believe your son understands that too. He's not cut out for Stanford or MIT but he's still going to get that degree. So in the end I don't think your thoughts are that bold. A college education is so expensive.....you got to take the academics seriously or why go at all?
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
PA Dino - excellent arguments for why acdemics should always come first...

What if your son wanted to be a musician? Would you discourage that? The odds are slim and none that he becomes the next Harry Connick Jr. and a multi-millionaire. Suppose that is his ultimate dream. Suppose he falls short of that and winds up as a music teacher who occasionally plays weekend gigs in a wedding band. Suppose that does not lead to a wealthy life-style but one that is completely able to pay for all those real-world things you mention above. Suppose that completely makes him happy. Would you discourage that or should he go into something practical like accounting, engineering, or management - even though his passions drove him otherwise?
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
Good discussion so far. Thanks.

Observer 44's comment about it not being an either/or makes sense. So does PA Dino's about needing to lay a foundation. I would definitely have a different view if he decided to skip college altogether or pick a fluff major and coast through college. He does intend to make progress toward a real degree, but he's going to take close to the minimum full-time load as opposed to the schedule needed to graduate in four years. So I guess you could say he's laying the academic part of the foundation slowly. If his baseball playing ends early because of injury or insufficient talent, he won't have to start laying that foundation from scratch. There will already be some well-laid blocks in place.

WraggArm's comment about what comes easily probably applies in terms of desire, not aptitude. He could probably excel at either school or baseball, but not both at the same time. If you're equally good at two things, but really enjoy one of them, it's easier to do the one you enjoy. So he has chosen to make the trade off of trying to excel at baseball while keeping academic options viable, just not primary.

PA Dino: You almost got the premise of my original post. I'm not saying that academics aren't important, but I am saying they can take a back seat in certain circumstances. (Taking a back seat means they're still part of the journey: they're not driving, but they're not getting kicked out of the car either.) I come from a family that placed a great deal of emphasis on academics--I, my parents, and all my brothers and sisters have advanced degrees from respected schools (Cornell, Wash U/St. Louis, Tulane, Rensselaer Polytechnic, etc). My oldest son was a national merit scholar and got a full-tuition academic scholarship. Academics are important. I just think in the case of this particular kid, putting pressure on him to go to a similarly prestigious academic school and graduate "on time" isn't the best thing for him.
Last edited by Swampboy
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
I wonder if we aren't doing our kids a disservice by discouraging their dreams and steering them toward "safe" lives with practical degrees that lead to steady jobs.


Playing pro ball can be a steady job, but is it all that practical? Lot depends on how each individual sees it.

College is by far very challenging, with baseball it is all the more so. Working towards that "safer" degree isn't going to be as easy as one would expect. I do beleive that many can just get by in HS and do well, then struggle at the college level. Your son will have to work in the classroom just as hard as he will in the field. There are a lot of players that get into some college academic programs because they play great baseball, and then realize that they are academically way over their heads, I don't agree that this is always appropriate (getting into a college where it may become a struggle), and I guess so does the NCAA, as they have come down hard regarding academic progress for all student athletes.

DK was an excellent HS student, his first semester at college, he was pretty lost. Big adjustment, he found out that he had to "work" for better grades. He had to learn what most others do, to find the balance between the field, weightroom, classroom, study hall and social activities. You can'ty play if you don't perform in the classroom, it's hard to just "get by". JMO.

That also becomes the time when those that pursue the "dream" often get a reality check, that is when many players realize that working towards that degree (whichever they choose or where ever they chooose to do it) brings on a new meaning. Without going into detail, your son will find that as he progresses through college. Priorities change for many, you'd be surprised.

We talk about the quest to make it to the highest level as following your dreams. I beleive that one should never give up that dream, but plan with goals in mind to pursue that dream, your son has taken the first step that he feels is the corret choice for him. In other words, if all else fails, he will have his degree or part of to fall back on when the time comes that he either decides to walk away or that decision is made for him. Or, as often happens he gets hurt, which is the biggest of why why most fail before they even make the 40 man roster.

I often times look at the bios that son pitches against, 27,28, 29, 30 year olds still playing that have yet to make the 40 man, I am not always sure that is still for pursuit of the dream, rather they just never had an alternative to consider. This shows how academics took the back seat, and trust me, those at that age, married with children will find it difficult to begin their college education.

I also believe that when a player is in HS academics should always come first (talent usually takes care of itself). Academics opens many doors for the player, it can mean the difference between playing at a program that will help develop him further or not and even give him more exposure towards his future. For the college drafted junior, your GPA in college may even mean the difference in how much money a team will give you to finish when you return.

Either way, your son has decided upon pursuing his dream though a goal (go to college) which would best fit his situation and his desires, that is what is more important and that he has a plan B is too.
Last edited by TPM
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I don't see it as an either or situation either. If he does things right he can get a good, quality education while still working his butt off to try and make it. What's wrong with being an educated struggling minor leaguer that's holding on? You can have both and when / if baseball doesn't pan out he's not going to have to delay starting the next phase of his life while he makes up for time lost. By having an education he can transition to the next phase with minimal trouble.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
It is very much an individual choice. It can certainly constrain a student athlete. My son turned down MIT because he didn't feel he was capable of competing there academically, he didn't want to be on the East Coast, and his dream is to play D1.

He's attending a JC and doing well with solid courses so far. He still wants to go D1 but he also insists that he go to a school that will allow him to pursure his major and not limit his ability to finish school once he gets there. A couple of the D1 schools he did camps at made if fairly clear that they would decide what courses the players took and that baseball would be the priority. That isn't going to be easy to find and at some point my guess is that some compromises will have to be made. In the meantime we'll see how he does athletically and academically for the next year or two and have a better data base to work off of.
Last edited by CADad
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
I don't think we're getting to the root of my question. So far, folks seem okay with his choice if they think he's staying on track for a degree and don't like it if they think he's not. That's not what I'm really asking.

I'm really asking if a young man is always better prepared for life by obtaining a degree that makes him initially acceptable to grad schools or hiring managers and whether he might actually learn more from the process to totally committing himself to a goal he probably won't attain. Even in the failure he's likely to encounter, might he not learn more about himself, what he's capable of doing, and what it takes to pursue grand goals than if he just built a resume? Isn't this the difference between making a living and choosing how to live? Between setting your own course and letting others do it for you? Frankly, in the economy our kids might see over the next generation, learning how to operate without a safety net might be the best preparation a young man could have, anyway. (Or is this just my mid-life crisis that I'm projecting on to him?)
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Swampboy,
There isn't one right answer. There are a lot of different paths to success and to failure and the end result is more dependent on the persistence of the person taking the path than which path is taken.

It would be nice if all of our sons could get a full ride to Stanford but that isn't in the "Cards" for most of our sons so we simply muddle along and somehow most of the kids will come out allright.
Last edited by CADad
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
I prefer academics first and baseball second but I also agree that that adage does not hold for all kids.

Without baseball I don't believe my guy would have even thought about college. He was a terrible hs student and it cost him more than a few college situations.

He finally found a spot at a D-I program---and played four years , got his degree and had a better college GPA than he did in HS.

Academics does not necessarily mean elite high end academic colleges--not to me at least-- to me it means getting a degree

Also I like to see a kid in a school where he doesn't need to struggle in the classroom and be concerned about staying eligible. As one coach said to me " if I get him in can we be sure he will stay eligible because of the strenuous academics?"

Too many of us are hung up on the "elite" colleges---don't be--it is no failure if your son attends a school that does not have the reputation of a Stanford or and IVY--it is a failure if your son does get the chance to get a degree
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
Good discussion so far.

Thrit and many others make valid points.

As Thrit said some kids would not go to college if it were not for baseball.And there are many kids like that.

My own son doesnt care for school.He is smart but doesnt particularly care for academics.He is getting a basic degree in Sociology.Because I do want him to graduate in four years.

Swamp mentions he doesnt want his son to be confined to a FLUFF degree and it doesnt matter if he graduates in four years.See for us it does.My son is at a Private school and I can not afford a fifth year.My son has no idea what he wants to do outside of baseball.So a basic degree from USC in four years can give him a starting point.At that time he can go to a less expensive school and get a minor in business or a masters in something if that is what he desires after his baseball days are over.
If you look at rosters across the country many baseball players major in Psychology, Sociology(look at Stanfords roster, at least 12-15 players are majoring in Sociology).Communications is another big one.Many say you cant get jobs with those degrees.That is not true.My daughter has a Psychology degree and her first job was a financial aide officer at a college.

Unless your son wants a very specific degree such as engineering etc,many players take as you say fluff degrees.

I can tell you Sociology or any degree from USC where my son goes sure isnt fluff.16 units a semester is tough.They are required to take 16.Some drop down if they struggle, but most finish 16 units.

To me for most boys playing college baseball they will get a basic degree.My hats off to those that can take engineering, or pre med and do school.My own son couldnt handle those types of classes and pursue baseball.

There isnt a recipe that all fit into.My son struggled to get it all done with his Fluff degree last year.But he managed and did well.He has come to relize after having surgery how important his degree is.

College baseball is tough for most these boys.Until your son has done it for a year you really have no idea what it is like.You can read about it, but it isnt the same as watching your son go through it.Many players start out with BIG degrees in mind and many of those end up having to change.

I really dont think any degree is a fluff degree.It is a starting point for life.They learn to write and communicate and learn about many things.They need skills to survive in entry level jobs.Most will start out with entry level jobs even with a degree.

Swamp, I think your son made a wise decsion for him.My own could of went to a less academic school and it would of been easier academically then where he is at.But he decided to go to USC and even not liking school, many would of thought why choose that.

He felt that a degree from USC would help him with his resume.But dont think for a moment he has given up his dream of playing at the next level.Most of these boys willnot play at the next level.

I agree with Cleveland dad, so many parents spend a lot of time on a baseball site and say academics are most important.Then they omly want D1 baseball.If academics really are most important there are outstanding D3 schools that offer great academics and good baseball.

I think many parents want their boys to play D1 baseball.Many of our boys want D1 baseball.That is fine.But D1 baseball is a business, and it is about winning.The schedule is rigorous and demanding.And many leave after one year.Many fail their first year.Many cant deal with more than a basic degree.It is way toughr than most know.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
With maximum effort there's about a 1% chance of earning a living in MLB baseball. With maximum effort there's a 100% chance of earning a living in the business world. It's great to dream. It's also good to be rational and not delusional.

Through high school a kid should be giving maximum effort to academics. If a kid is a jaw dropping baseball stud I can understand selecting an ASU or similar college over Ivy due to baseball. If a kid wants to play college baseball I can see selecting a college one notch down academically that provides a better baseball option.

What I can't see is choosing Whatamattah U just to play baseball. I told my son no way, no how am I paying 50K a year for some BS school just so he can say he played college baseball.

Talk about tough choices
Last edited by RJM
KrakatoaKrakatoa1,000+ posts
I often wonder if by "academics", we should really be saying "academic reputation", because there are bad profs everywhere. Being at a great "academic" school doesn't automatically mean that the student will have a slate free of bad profs (smart as hell, but difficulty with communicating, huge work loads, playing favorites, sometimes even English is a challenge, would rather be doing research, huge classes taught/graded by TA's, etc etc).

Another reason why ALL things (listed nicely by obs44) really need to be factored in...."academic reputation" being just one of those factors.
Last edited by Krakatoa
ILVBBILVBB1,000+ posts
Our kids will be people far longer than they will be baseball players. Everything that goes into helping them grow to become good, productive people is important. For most that will mean and education; for some their education will be limited to baseball. Each family will have a focus based upon their traditions, dreams, aspirations and beliefs; not everyone is the same and as such their is no best answer for the question "should academics come first?"
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
In the big picture there aren't going to be any right or wrong answers. This is a subject my responses will be based on conditioned environment. A parent whose family members has always attended top academic institutions is going to have a different view than a parent where no one in the family has attended college. It doesn't make one parent right, wrong, better or worse. It's just going to be a different view.
N njbb1,000+ posts
I'm some what offended when people believe a formal education is necessary for success.
Is a farmer and better farmer because he has a degree?

I say life is short so follow your dream, your passion, work hard and you will have few regrets.

PS I went to college, my husband is a tradesman,my brother is a lawyer and my father was a farmer.. guess who made the most money Smile
Last edited by njbb
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
quote:
NJBB - No, a farmer is not a better farmer because he has a degree. He just has more options and alternatives in case that doesn't work out



Good point.And the real issue here is we are talking about baseball past highschool, so if they aren't drafted out of HS they have to play in college.And to play they have to stay elgible.So while there they should work towards their degree.Whatever that is, wherever that is depending on the family and player.
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
i have a much different view of the situation. i completed the 9th grade, i worked construction from then on.thats what you did with no formal education.
i have a concrete foundation co. i have carried more than i care to admitt on my back ,because i had a strong back. but i wouldn't do anything different, maybe because i don't know any better. Wink there is no substitute for an education.

all though for some school just isn't the thing, i can understand that. but in my opinion you don't go to school to become a pro player. it just cost to much, even with scholy money. even then its up to a chosen few that decide that , if you even get chosen to try. if he wanted to be a plumber,muscician, dr, you need to go to school (or should),not to be a baseball player.

you should pretty much have an idea by now if he has a shot. if he feels that strongly about baseball, see if he's drafted out of high school. if not tryout for any indy team. if he's good enough they'll sign him from there.

sounds as though he is thinking it through some. but why waste time and money in college?

i told my kids they could be whatever they wanted in life, i lied. Big Grin
Last edited by 20dad
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
I have thoroughly enjoyed every post in this thread!

20dad - have always loved your posts. You bring a unique perspective here. No shame in having a strong back and using it accordingly. Hard work is what this country is about. My son is a blue-collar player and our family is very proud of that. Going out and outworking the next guy will always work in this great country of ours.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by fanofgame:
quote:
NJBB - No, a farmer is not a better farmer because he has a degree. He just has more options and alternatives in case that doesn't work out



Good point.And the real issue here is we are talking about baseball past highschool, so if they aren't drafted out of HS they have to play in college.And to play they have to stay elgible.So while there they should work towards their degree.Whatever that is, wherever that is depending on the family and player.


I don't think that this discussion is about college vs. pro but about college options. Should one pass up the better, harder academic option or play it safer with an easier acadeimc load for the pursuit of the game. That's what I am getting anyway. FWIW, son had some very good options to consider at very high academic programs, with so so baseball programs, he chose where he would have better baseball opportunities, and work towards a degree at the same time. Players do it all of the time.

Swampboy, there is nothing wrong in your son's decision, congratulations to him for doing what HE felt was in his best interest, which is to work hark for teh next level after college, and I agree for many there really is no right or wrong answer. I get the feeling that you may not be too comfortable with his decision, just a feeling I get from what you are trying to get across. We, as parents have a tendency to over think and over analyze, our kids are smart, they end up figuring it out and yes, working dilligently towards one dream reaching goals along the way, prepares you for what lies ahead in your life, baseball or no baseball.

The NFL provides counseling for players after they leave the game, this includes help in finishing their academic degree, along with career counseling. They make huge efforts to see that the players finish what they beganin college, no matter how much money they made or didn't in the game.

There is no such animal that exists in MLB. That's why these discussions are good, statistically it is against everyone (even the most talented) that pursues playing at the highest level that they will not get there, so realistic options and prior discussions are important.
JMO
Last edited by TPM
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Swampboy:

Tell your son to get drafted and sign. Problem solved. College is not for everyone. If, however, he does not get drafted, then he has some tougher choices. He can go to college; he can become a public safety office (fire or police); he can go to technical school. It is not that big of a dilemma.

If, however, he is counting on baseball for his living for a lifetime, he might find himself in a very tough situation at age 30 or 40. I know guys who played in the Big Leagues for 10 years and made a lot of money who now struggle to survive, mainly because they have no other marketable skills. It is even worse for the many of the guys who played 10 years in the minor leagues without ever making the Majors and the money that comes with it.
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
quote:
I don't think that this discussion is about college vs. pro but about college options


I get what the post is about,The original poster said his son chose a less academic school, and is taking a lighter load, and taking longer than 4 years to get a GOOD degree not a weak degree, due to the fact that he wants to focus on his dream of playing at the next level.I did not say there is anything wrong with that.

I am stating after several posters, that unless a player is drafted, academics do come into play.And I really dont care where you go, it is going to be hard.

So if academics arent the most important to a player, and his dream is to play in the BIGs then if he gets drafted out of HS go play baseball.

Then when and where he goes wont matter.
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
My husband has been a Blue collar worker our entire marriage and has provided us with a great life.Now he is 60, At and T decided they want him to retire early, or maybe not have a job, he hurt his back at work and can hardly walk.He is now too slow to do the work they want him to accomplish in 8 hours.They forced him into an early retirement.

No options, no education.Not a lot of jobs out there to support family and help finish sons education.So something to fall back on is huge.His parents never encouraged college.My husband wants our son to finish his degree.
fanofgamefanofgame5,000+ posts
Just for the sake of a discussion I put this question out there.

If a young man goes to Dartmouth, Stanford, UCLA, Pepperdine, USC, those top academic schools(there are many mnay others, so not trying to exclude any good schools, and mainly chose D1 as that is where a lot of families want to shoot for first.

Anyway trying to clarify so NO one is offended.

And then you have the kids who go to state schools and get their degrees.

Do you on this board thinks it means anything as to where you go as far as the persons future and connections , job market etc?

I am just curious as to peoples thought process on this.

With that being asked, again a college education anywhere is a Great accomplishment.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
Yes...Academics ALWAYS come first with us. However, I agree that there's certainly different circumstances in each family. College is definitely NOT for everyone. There are a number of jobs/careers that do not require a college degree and still offer you a chance to succeed. I personally had a great time in college. Unfortunately for me, I had such a good time (away from the books!) that I neglected my studies and spent half my sophomore year academically ineligible watching my buddies play from the bleachers. I had Pell/Cal Grants, but I was still struggling to pay my portion of the montly bills. My parents who have been divorced since I was five, didn't have the resources to help, nor did they understand what I was going through. They had been brought up in Blue Collar households and college was never a high priority, therefore I didn't have them to fall back on. After my sophomore year, I lost one of my Grants. It became apparent that I'd have to find a job to stay in school and still play ball. As the summer approached, I took on a job at a major company an hour away from campus. I was making pretty good money for a twenty year old, and made the mistake of purchasing a new truck. When the end of August rolled around I received a phone call from my college coach asking why I hadn't registered for the fall semester? I was embarrassed, I informed him of my financial situation and loss of my Grant. He was understanding, and even offered me an opportunity to stay with his family until I was able to reinstate the Grant. I appreciated the offer and I thought long and hard about my decision before ultimately deciding to remain working at my job beyond the summer. It's been more than 23 years, and I still represent the same company, although in a much different capacity. I've been Very Lucky, but I often wonder if I should have taken my coaches offer and what could have been? By the way, that coach is still coaching at the same school.

I feel it's my job as a parent to help direct my kids in the right direction. With that said, I will support my kids with whatever decision they make as it pertains to college. Will I have a strong opinion? You bet I will! We all want what's best for our children. I have explained the above paragraph/story to my son in the past, and I'm sure I'll remind him if he deviates from his goals in the future. Everyone has different opinions, and the road is not the same for all of us. Academics are important to me because I never completed what I started. The only thing I want to stress to young people that read this site, is YES, you can pursue other dreams...professional baseball, acting, modeling, traveling the world, etc...BUT it's much more difficult to go back to school the longer you're away. It can be done, my sister and her husband went back to school at age 38, graduated, completed their teaching credential last year at age 40/41, and now they're both teaching in Wyoming...I'll be honest though, they were lucky to have his military pension to help get them through and it was still very hard raising two kids!

CD made a good point earlier. If academics are so important, what are we doing on this site constantly? I can't answer for everybody else, but I'm just learning. I'm learning that this site is similar to our society, as TRhit said in a previous post, a sort of Melting Pot. There are several different opinions, some are good, some are bad, and some make you say hmmmm? As for college information, I visit the collegeboard.com site often for facts and information on schools, but it's just not as entertaining as the HSBaseballweb. Smile In the long run, I don't necessarily disagree with Swampboy, I just have a different opinion. If we all agreed with everything, this site would be boring and we wouldn't have nearly as many members and visitors logged on daily, but as I stated earlier... it's JMO. Wink
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by fanofgame:
Just for the sake of a discussion I put this question out there.

If a young man goes to Dartmouth, Stanford, UCLA, Pepperdine, USC, those top academic schools(there are many mnay others, so not trying to exclude any good schools, and mainly chose D1 as that is where a lot of families want to shoot for first.

Anyway trying to clarify so NO one is offended.

And then you have the kids who go to state schools and get their degrees.

Do you on this board thinks it means anything as to where you go as far as the persons future and connections , job market etc?

I am just curious as to peoples thought process on this.

With that being asked, again a college education anywhere is a Great accomplishment.

The better the school, the more doors that will be open initially and perhaps in the future imho. Scott Boras is one of the wealthiest men in America and I believe he went to Pacific. I don't think anyone has ever posted a question about them here at the hsbbweb. Scott said after he got his law degree and started interviewing at the big firms in Chicago and New York that all anyone ever wanted to talk about was the fact he played baseball in college and the pros. Go figure...
observer44observer441,000+ posts
.
Open Question...

Is it better to...

A. Play baseball at a highly visible baseball but much less academic school and get a 3.9 GPA degree.

Or..

B. Play baseball at a much less visible but much more highly regarded academic school...and get a 3.0 GPA.

Which goes farther...High GPA or academic reputation?

44

BTW...excellent observation FOG...trade school or education?
.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by bsbl247:
Yes...Academics ALWAYS come first with us. However, I agree that there's certainly different circumstances in each family. College is definitely NOT for everyone. There are a number of jobs/careers that do not require a college degree and still offer you a chance to succeed. I personally had a great time in college. Unfortunately for me, I had such a good time (away from the books!) that I neglected my studies and spent half my sophomore year academically ineligible watching my buddies play from the bleachers. I had Pell/Cal Grants, but I was still struggling to pay my portion of the montly bills. My parents who have been divorced since I was five, didn't have the resources to help, nor did they understand what I was going through. They had been brought up in Blue Collar households and college was never a high priority, therefore I didn't have them to fall back on. After my sophomore year, I lost one of my Grants. It became apparent that I'd have to find a job to stay in school and still play ball. As the summer approached, I took on a job at a major company an hour away from campus. I was making pretty good money for a twenty year old, and made the mistake of purchasing a new truck. When the end of August rolled around I received a phone call from my college coach asking why I hadn't registered for the fall semester? I was embarrassed, I informed him of my financial situation and loss of my Grant. He was understanding, and even offered me an opportunity to stay with his family until I was able to reinstate the Grant. I appreciated the offer and I thought long and hard about my decision before ultimately deciding to remain working at my job beyond the summer. It's been more than 23 years, and I still represent the same company, although in a much different capacity. I've been Very Lucky, but I often wonder if I should have taken my coaches offer and what could have been? By the way, that coach is still coaching at the same school.

I feel it's my job as a parent to help direct my kids in the right direction. With that said, I will support my kids with whatever decision they make as it pertains to college. Will I have a strong opinion? You bet I will! We all want what's best for our children. I have explained the above paragraph/story to my son in the past, and I'm sure I'll remind him if he deviates from his goals in the future. Everyone has different opinions, and the road is not the same for all of us. Academics are important to me because I never completed what I started. The only thing I want to stress to young people that read this site, is YES, you can pursue other dreams...professional baseball, acting, modeling, traveling the world, etc...BUT it's much more difficult to go back to school the longer you're away. It can be done, my sister and her husband went back to school at age 38, graduated, completed their teaching credential last year at age 40/41, and now they're both teaching in Wyoming...I'll be honest though, they were lucky to have his military pension to help get them through and it was still very hard raising two kids!

CD made a good point earlier. If academics are so important, what are we doing on this site constantly? I can't answer for everybody else, but I'm just learning. I'm learning that this site is similar to our society, as TRhit said in a previous post, a sort of Melting Pot. There are several different opinions, some are good, some are bad, and some make you say hmmmm? As for college information, I visit the collegeboard.com site often for facts and information on schools, but it's just not as entertaining as the HSBaseballweb. Smile In the long run, I don't necessarily disagree with Swampboy, I just have a different opinion. If we all agreed with everything, this site would be boring and we wouldn't have nearly as many members and visitors logged on daily, but as I stated earlier... it's JMO. Wink

Absolutely loved that post - thanks for posting! Wonderful thread. Nobody agrees 100% but nobody is incorrect in what they are saying. I think everyone here has indeed figured it out for themselves. More posts please - very enjoyable reading.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by observer44:
.
Open Question...

Is it better to...

A. Play baseball at a highly visible baseball but much less academic school and get a 3.9 GPA degree.

Or..

B. Play baseball at a much less visible but much more highly regarded academic school...and get a 3.0 GPA.

Which goes farther...High GPA or academic reputation?

44

BTW...excellent observation FOG...trade school or education?
.

Great question. It depends Big Grin For the baseball player, A is probably the better option imho but there are obviously schools that satisfy both A and B and players capable of executing at a high level in both arenas.
PD PA Dino500+ posts
ClevelandDad:

quote:
What if your son wanted to be a musician? Would you discourage that? The odds are slim and none that he becomes the next Harry Connick Jr. and a multi-millionaire. Suppose that is his ultimate dream. Suppose he falls short of that and winds up as a music teacher who occasionally plays weekend gigs in a wedding band. Suppose that does not lead to a wealthy life-style but one that is completely able to pay for all those real-world things you mention above. Suppose that completely makes him happy. Would you discourage that or should he go into something practical like accounting, engineering, or management - even though his passions drove him otherwise?


I don't make the distinction that the arts are any less practical than the sciences when it comes to making a living. While wealth will make a person more comfortable, it's not a necessity for happiness. There are infinitely more musicians and artists making a living than baseball players. If a dream is tied to wealth, I'd want to certify it a real dream before I continued on. My answer is simply, what makes one happy must be tempered by one's responsibilities and duties. Many times both can exist, but sometimes we have to chose to cope, face the crisis and look for other opportunities for happiness. I guess these days, I'm looking for a little less "me" and a little more "we" in our future leadership.

Swampboy,

quote:
I'm really asking if a young man is always better prepared for life by obtaining a degree that makes him initially acceptable to grad schools or hiring managers and whether he might actually learn more from the process to totally committing himself to a goal he probably won't attain. Even in the failure he's likely to encounter, might he not learn more about himself, what he's capable of doing, and what it takes to pursue grand goals than if he just built a resume? Isn't this the difference between making a living and choosing how to live? Between setting your own course and letting others do it for you? Frankly, in the economy our kids might see over the next generation, learning how to operate without a safety net might be the best preparation a young man could have, anyway. (Or is this just my mid-life crisis that I'm projecting on to him?)


I dectect some serious introspection in your words.......All of us have committed ourselves to goals we didn't attain. No matter what your suggestions are to him, he will probably chose to do it his way. Isn't that how it should be anyway?
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