It's not easy, but it IS possible to play high level D1/CWS baseball and major in engineering. Whether it's possible to do that AND graduate on time remains to be seen. :-)
[QUOTE].... I have read many times on here that it might not be possible to play high level baseball and major in engineering.. QUOTE]
quote:Originally posted by MTH:
It's not easy, but it IS possible to play high level D1/CWS baseball and major in engineering. Whether it's possible to do that AND graduate on time remains to be seen. :-)
[QUOTE].... I have read many times on here that it might not be possible to play high level baseball and major in engineering.. QUOTE]
I thank those that posted after me and we will keep our eyes and ears open. Son has his heart set on giving baseball his best shot. Perhaps I should also clarify.. his interest is in petroleum engineering which somewhat limits his choices.
There is no questions about it.. ABSOLUTELY!! Without your education, you have nothing... Education will last you a lifetime, Baseball wont..
quote:Originally posted by NIC15:
Without your education, you have nothing... Education will last you a lifetime, Baseball wont..
I disagree. Without your education, you do have something. You have the discipline, confidence, toughness, maturity and other traits you developed or discovered by committing yourself to excellence in baseball. You can always go back to school and finish your degree, but the window for "going for it" in baseball closes fast and stays closed.
Baseball may not last, but what it teaches you can last a lifetime and be worth more than what it costs to return to school as an older student.
We can do kids a disservice by creating the expectation that they must graduate "on time" (Whose time?) and telling them to hedge on their dreams. If a high school graduate has committed himself to baseball and developed himself to the extent that "the dream" is not totally implausible AND he is willing to accept the hardships that might ensue if he falls short or gets hurt, who are we to dissuade him from pursuing greatness?
Maybe the schoolmarm types should lighten up, stop overselling institutional learning as the only path to success, and let the boys do something hard that helps them become MEN! School will still be there if they need and want it.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:quote:Originally posted by NIC15:
Without your education, you have nothing... Education will last you a lifetime, Baseball wont..
I disagree. Without your education, you do have something. You have the discipline, confidence, toughness, maturity and other traits you developed or discovered by committing yourself to excellence in baseball. You can always go back to school and finish your degree, but the window for "going for it" in baseball closes fast and stays closed.
Baseball may not last, but what it teaches you can last a lifetime and be worth more than what it costs to return to school as an older student.
We can do kids a disservice by creating the expectation that they must graduate "on time" (Whose time?) and telling them to hedge on their dreams. If a high school graduate has committed himself to baseball and developed himself to the extent that "the dream" is not totally implausible AND he is willing to accept the hardships that might ensue if he falls short or gets hurt, who are we to dissuade him from pursuing greatness?
Maybe the schoolmarm types should lighten up, stop overselling institutional learning as the only path to success, and let the boys do something hard that helps them become MEN! School will still be there if they need and want it.
DISCIPLINE, CONFIDENCE, TOUGHNESS, MATURITY and other traits are ALL traits that should be developed or discovered by the Maturing process. Just because someone decides to committ themselves to baseball does not give them these traits.
Yes you can always go back to school but how many people actually do this? After you get older, have kids, enter the working world be it baseball or a garbage man how many people actually have the discipline to do this, or the time to do it.
Who is saying to hedge on your dreams? Why can your dreams not be accomplished while at the same time earning your education?
And you say if a high school graduate has committed himself who are we to tell him not to pursue greatness. Well where is he going to pursue this? Is he going to simply go to open tryouts? Because last time I looked HS Grads who do not get drafted, have no where else to play after grauating except summer leagues, or town teams. So where can they pursue these dreams?
I think we are disservicing a kid by telling him that education is not as important as following your dreams... Thats a DISSERVICE
School Marm types should lighten up and stop overselling institutional learning? Thats a ridiculous comment...
I have coached HS, Collegiate, and Professional Baseball, oh yes I also have 6 Years as a MLB Scout. I have been there, I have seen this scenario a million times. Have you??
For myself,I am glad my son went to college first.(not that he was drafted out of HS) but he was getting serious looks after his first year at JC.But now he is a junior at a good college.It is his draft year and if he gets drafted he will go.I understand his reasons to go if it happens.But I am glad he will have three solid years done, and on schedule to graduate in 4 years.I am just so pro education.I just think to at least have your bachelors and then you can build from there if needed.
To answer a few of your objections:
1. "Just because someone decides to committ themselves to baseball does not give them these traits." Well, duh. No, there's no guarantee that baseball will develop character in every case, any more than there's a guarantee that a degree will lead to a job (ask your waiter this weekend). However, if you don't believe at some level that total commitment to baseball or any other honorable undertaking is a good way to develop positive traits, then I have to wonder why you entered coaching.
2. "Yes you can always go back to school but how many people actually do this?" Hundreds of thousands, actually. Thanks for asking. Veterans and other older students are making up increasingly large proportions of the college student population and frequently outperform their 18-22 year old classmates. Yes, it is hard to go back to school as an older student, especially if you've become responsible for a family. However, I have taught older college students in that situation, and I loved working with grown ups who knew why they were in school and what they were working toward.
3. "Who is saying to hedge on your dreams? Why can your dreams not be accomplished while at the same time earning your education?" You are. You don't appear to realize it, but you're telling players to hedge on their dreams when you falsely assert that it's possible to pursue the MLB dream and get a college education. You're the scout. Of the "millions" of cases you've seen, how many got a degree and made it to the top? According to one web site that tried to list them, fewer than 50 players had MLB careers and earned college degrees--ever. Maybe they missed a few, and they didn't count guys who had a cup of coffee and later earned their degrees, but the general rule holds. We all know about Mike Mussina and Craig Counsell graduating from Stanford and Notre Dame precisely because they are such extreme exceptions. For all practical purposes, when you tell anyone else to put academics first, you're really telling him to turn his slim chance of baseball success into no chance.
4. "Well where is he going to pursue this? Is he going to simply go to open tryouts? Because last time I looked HS Grads who do not get drafted, have no where else to play after grauating except summer leagues, or town teams. So where can they pursue these dreams?" Geesh, read the thread and try to pay attention. We're not talking about kids who pass up college. We're talking about a high school senior with good grades who chose his best baseball development opportunity over a more prestigious academic opportunity. He has decided up front that he'll be enough of a student to remain in good standing, but baseball is going to come first and is going to get all his extra effort. Later, after his baseball playing is over, I expect he'll hit the books with the same vigor he's applying in the weight room now. He's willing to be a 25 year old finishing his degree after not making it to AA, but he's not willing to be a 30 year old engineer wondering if he could have been a pro baseball player. In my book, that is a reasonable life choice.
5. "I think we are disservicing a kid by telling him that education is not as important as following your dreams... Thats a DISSERVICE." Hate to break it to you but writing in all caps isn't an acceptable substitute for backing an assertion with actual evidence or reasoning.
6. "School Marm types should lighten up and stop overselling institutional learning? That's a ridiculous comment." Again, you haven't really made an argument, but the fact is hundreds of thousands of kids who aren't prepared or motivated to succeed in higher education go to college every year and run up a lot of debt because people like you say they will be failures if they don't get a college degree right away. Many of them end up not graduating, graduating with unmarketable degrees, or graduating and finding themselves obliged to take jobs they hate in order to service their student debt. I used the phrase "schoolmarm types" to describe people who, because they are good at school, think everyone should follow in their footsteps and can't imagine any other path to success. That's a failure of imagination and an intolerance of freedom.
1. "Just because someone decides to committ themselves to baseball does not give them these traits." Well, duh. No, there's no guarantee that baseball will develop character in every case, any more than there's a guarantee that a degree will lead to a job (ask your waiter this weekend). However, if you don't believe at some level that total commitment to baseball or any other honorable undertaking is a good way to develop positive traits, then I have to wonder why you entered coaching.
2. "Yes you can always go back to school but how many people actually do this?" Hundreds of thousands, actually. Thanks for asking. Veterans and other older students are making up increasingly large proportions of the college student population and frequently outperform their 18-22 year old classmates. Yes, it is hard to go back to school as an older student, especially if you've become responsible for a family. However, I have taught older college students in that situation, and I loved working with grown ups who knew why they were in school and what they were working toward.
3. "Who is saying to hedge on your dreams? Why can your dreams not be accomplished while at the same time earning your education?" You are. You don't appear to realize it, but you're telling players to hedge on their dreams when you falsely assert that it's possible to pursue the MLB dream and get a college education. You're the scout. Of the "millions" of cases you've seen, how many got a degree and made it to the top? According to one web site that tried to list them, fewer than 50 players had MLB careers and earned college degrees--ever. Maybe they missed a few, and they didn't count guys who had a cup of coffee and later earned their degrees, but the general rule holds. We all know about Mike Mussina and Craig Counsell graduating from Stanford and Notre Dame precisely because they are such extreme exceptions. For all practical purposes, when you tell anyone else to put academics first, you're really telling him to turn his slim chance of baseball success into no chance.
4. "Well where is he going to pursue this? Is he going to simply go to open tryouts? Because last time I looked HS Grads who do not get drafted, have no where else to play after grauating except summer leagues, or town teams. So where can they pursue these dreams?" Geesh, read the thread and try to pay attention. We're not talking about kids who pass up college. We're talking about a high school senior with good grades who chose his best baseball development opportunity over a more prestigious academic opportunity. He has decided up front that he'll be enough of a student to remain in good standing, but baseball is going to come first and is going to get all his extra effort. Later, after his baseball playing is over, I expect he'll hit the books with the same vigor he's applying in the weight room now. He's willing to be a 25 year old finishing his degree after not making it to AA, but he's not willing to be a 30 year old engineer wondering if he could have been a pro baseball player. In my book, that is a reasonable life choice.
5. "I think we are disservicing a kid by telling him that education is not as important as following your dreams... Thats a DISSERVICE." Hate to break it to you but writing in all caps isn't an acceptable substitute for backing an assertion with actual evidence or reasoning.
6. "School Marm types should lighten up and stop overselling institutional learning? That's a ridiculous comment." Again, you haven't really made an argument, but the fact is hundreds of thousands of kids who aren't prepared or motivated to succeed in higher education go to college every year and run up a lot of debt because people like you say they will be failures if they don't get a college degree right away. Many of them end up not graduating, graduating with unmarketable degrees, or graduating and finding themselves obliged to take jobs they hate in order to service their student debt. I used the phrase "schoolmarm types" to describe people who, because they are good at school, think everyone should follow in their footsteps and can't imagine any other path to success. That's a failure of imagination and an intolerance of freedom.
Swampboy, I also come from a family that values education and I have taught both undergraduate and graduate level courses. With that said, I admire the decision your son has made and think it reflects unusual wisdom for one so young. He is a rare young person who knows what he wants, understands the odds of his choice, and has committed to a course of action that will allow him to end his quest satisfied regardless of the outcome. Kudos to him!
Incidentally, my son sounds a lot like yours. He is a freshman in college who made his college decision based on his desire to see how far he can go in baseball. It's a fine school, but not as academically rigorous as other places he could have selected. And, like your son, he was a decent student in high school but far more dedicated to working out and practicing than hitting the books. I worried a lot about his priorities over the years, but finally came to admire his passion and dedication to the thing that was most important to him.
Incidentally, my son sounds a lot like yours. He is a freshman in college who made his college decision based on his desire to see how far he can go in baseball. It's a fine school, but not as academically rigorous as other places he could have selected. And, like your son, he was a decent student in high school but far more dedicated to working out and practicing than hitting the books. I worried a lot about his priorities over the years, but finally came to admire his passion and dedication to the thing that was most important to him.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
What's ridiculous is that I find myself arguing against a champion of higher education who is himself unable to spell, use punctuation, or structure a coherent argument.
To answer a few of your objections:
1. "Just because someone decides to committ themselves to baseball does not give them these traits." Well, duh. No, there's no guarantee that baseball will develop character in every case, any more than there's a guarantee that a degree will lead to a job (ask your waiter this weekend). However, if you don't believe at some level that total commitment to baseball or any other honorable undertaking is a good way to develop positive traits, then I have to wonder why you entered coaching.
2. "Yes you can always go back to school but how many people actually do this?" Hundreds of thousands, actually. Thanks for asking. Veterans and other older students are making up increasingly large proportions of the college student population and frequently outperform their 18-22 year old classmates. Yes, it is hard to go back to school as an older student, especially if you've become responsible for a family. However, I have taught older college students in that situation, and I loved working with grown ups who knew why they were in school and what they were working toward.
3. "Who is saying to hedge on your dreams? Why can your dreams not be accomplished while at the same time earning your education?" You are. You don't appear to realize it, but you're telling players to hedge on their dreams when you falsely assert that it's possible to pursue the MLB dream and get a college education. You're the scout. Of the "millions" of cases you've seen, how many got a degree and made it to the top? According to one web site that tried to list them, fewer than 50 players had MLB careers and earned college degrees--ever. Maybe they missed a few, and they didn't count guys who had a cup of coffee and later earned their degrees, but the general rule holds. We all know about Mike Mussina and Craig Counsell graduating from Stanford and Notre Dame precisely because they are such extreme exceptions. For all practical purposes, when you tell anyone else to put academics first, you're really telling him to turn his slim chance of baseball success into no chance.
4. "Well where is he going to pursue this? Is he going to simply go to open tryouts? Because last time I looked HS Grads who do not get drafted, have no where else to play after grauating except summer leagues, or town teams. So where can they pursue these dreams?" Geesh, read the thread and try to pay attention. We're not talking about kids who pass up college. We're talking about a high school senior with good grades who chose his best baseball development opportunity over a more prestigious academic opportunity. He has decided up front that he'll be enough of a student to remain in good standing, but baseball is going to come first and is going to get all his extra effort. Later, after his baseball playing is over, I expect he'll hit the books with the same vigor he's applying in the weight room now. He's willing to be a 25 year old finishing his degree after not making it to AA, but he's not willing to be a 30 year old engineer wondering if he could have been a pro baseball player. In my book, that is a reasonable life choice.
5. "I think we are disservicing a kid by telling him that education is not as important as following your dreams... Thats a DISSERVICE." Hate to break it to you but writing in all caps isn't an acceptable substitute for backing an assertion with actual evidence or reasoning.
6. "School Marm types should lighten up and stop overselling institutional learning? That's a ridiculous comment." Again, you haven't really made an argument, but the fact is hundreds of thousands of kids who aren't prepared or motivated to succeed in higher education go to college every year and run up a lot of debt because people like you say they will be failures if they don't get a college degree right away. Many of them end up not graduating, graduating with unmarketable degrees, or graduating and finding themselves obliged to take jobs they hate in order to service their student debt. I used the phrase "schoolmarm types" to describe people who, because they are good at school, think everyone should follow in their footsteps and can't imagine any other path to success. That's a failure of imagination and an intolerance of freedom.
First off as far as my punctuation, and spelling, I could care less. Thats solved. Second I will ask my waiter this weekend. Whether or not he has a degree, who knows but he still has a job. And to say that telling someone that education comes first will make there already slim chance become no chance to make it is ridiculous. Your telling me that if you put academics first you are setting yourself up for failure on the field?
And why would someone decide to be "Just a good enough student, to be in good academic standing"?? That alone is showing that they are settling for mediocrity. That alone shows lack of work ethic already, and raises a red flag to me as a scout in a big category... Character... Believe me, I used to think this way when I was in High School..
Ans while there may not be many who made it to the top who have a college degree, where are the other ones who were late round picks who chose to sign instead of finishing college? Either riding a bus in the minors drinking Wiskey out of a dixy cup, or working a dead end job that they hate.
Where are the ones who did not make it who do have a degree? They are coaching at the college level, working in the professional level in some aspect, etc.. Point being, they have something to fall back on.
Try getting a collegiate coaching job these days without a degree. Not to easy to come by.
I was far from "Good At School" but when I did get to college I put my priorities in order and made an effort in the classroom to get my degree, and this did not affect my on field drive, determination, or ability. I was still just as good. But now with my education I had an advantage over others, I had something to fall back on..
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine, so it is what it is.
Here's a deep one for you guys: What if your academics are sports? i.e. Sports management, athletic training, kiniseology, athletic administration, sports marketing, physical education, etc. If you aren't a great student, wouldn't these be majors for you? They'll probably keep you half way interested since sports are obviously involved, and they can lead to great jobs such as: Athletic Director, Athletic Trainer (Medical), Physical Therapist, Sports Trainer (Conditioning, Workout Trainer),PE Teacher, Every pro team in any sport in this country has a marketing department, as well as countless other job oppourtunities in that field, it's a stretch but General Manager is a job that is coveted by everyone playing Fantasy Football.
What's wrong with any of those jobs??? So what's wrong with choosing a major that would interest you? Not exactly an easier major, but one that would interest the student athlete more than other majors.
There is a major for everyone, and it's easier to juggle academics and baseball if you enjoy the academics.
What's wrong with any of those jobs??? So what's wrong with choosing a major that would interest you? Not exactly an easier major, but one that would interest the student athlete more than other majors.
There is a major for everyone, and it's easier to juggle academics and baseball if you enjoy the academics.
My son isnt taking a really hard major.He cant and keep up at USC.I really think a bachelors is a starting point.It means you completed your degree.You can always build on it later.
I think we need to be careful when putting down any degree.Some boys that play baseball in college ,might not even be there without baseball.
A basic degree teaches you writing and communication skills which are essential for any type of job.My son loves baseball, school isnt his favorite but he does alright.
A basic degree teaches you time management, and deadlines, and how to deal with stress and working with professors, and other students.Not every student is going to get an engineering degee(and my honest awe of those that do).
Most kids today will get entry level jobs out of college.I know kids who have aeronautical engineering degrees rt now that can not find work.
I applaud any student athlete who can go to school and maintain grades to graduate.For some that is all they can handle.
Nobody should judge that.And for the kids who go pro after HS tough road, but thats their life.Many of those kids dont like school.Its just an individal decision.
I think we need to be careful when putting down any degree.Some boys that play baseball in college ,might not even be there without baseball.
A basic degree teaches you writing and communication skills which are essential for any type of job.My son loves baseball, school isnt his favorite but he does alright.
A basic degree teaches you time management, and deadlines, and how to deal with stress and working with professors, and other students.Not every student is going to get an engineering degee(and my honest awe of those that do).
Most kids today will get entry level jobs out of college.I know kids who have aeronautical engineering degrees rt now that can not find work.
I applaud any student athlete who can go to school and maintain grades to graduate.For some that is all they can handle.
Nobody should judge that.And for the kids who go pro after HS tough road, but thats their life.Many of those kids dont like school.Its just an individal decision.
quote:I think we need to be careful when putting down any degree.Some boys that play baseball in college ,might not even be there without baseball.
True. There are many that fit that description.
Fungo
My son was not a great HS student--he did what he had to do===if not for baseball he would not have gone to college--in fact he graduated college with a higher GPA than he had in HS--his major was Tourism and Hotel Management---it was a fit for him and he enjoyed it--coming out of college he had a job waiting for him at Trump's Hotel in West Palm Beach.
I grew up in an educational environment--my Dad was a college professor, civil engineering, in my youth before he went into the consgtruction business---so I wanted my kids to get college degrees--and three of the boys all played baseball as well
Yes academics should come first, especially in todays world
I grew up in an educational environment--my Dad was a college professor, civil engineering, in my youth before he went into the consgtruction business---so I wanted my kids to get college degrees--and three of the boys all played baseball as well
Yes academics should come first, especially in todays world
WOW, this is a really great debate guys i appreciated reading this, not all of it but 50% as today was the first day i looked at this post. I will share my story.
Didn't like school at all the only thing that kept me in HS was i liked football and baseball. HS g.p.a approx 2.6 was good enough in HS to get a small baseball scholarship at a high level d2 program, this was the only reason i went to college, gave baseball my heart and soul in college along with social activities first semester g.p.a 1.8 learned no more baseball if g.p.a didn't come up, met a girl who taught me how to study and be a good student ended up marrying her 6 years later, the ball players taught me what teachers to take and how to drink, LOL..third year in baseball blew my arm out baseball career over I was a pitcher/outfielder, then thought about leaving college but figured had a good girl, good friends and part of school was done with, might as well stay in school. A semester later got bored decided to ask football coach if i can try out, tried out and life took me to the level of college football player, (being a good student was harder with a football schedule then baseball), ended up being a starting linebacker for also a prestigous d2 football program. Graduated from college in 5 years (wife got 2 degrees in that time, LOL). My degree was sports and event management and fluff or no fluff, sports or not i liked it and it was not easy by any stretch, granted some courses such as golf and kickboxing are cake and are based on attendance but others such as business law and the other variations of higher learning classes were not. After graduating my life took another turn as i went to a tryout and signed to play first base for an independent ball club in the northern states. Played for one year of pro ball in independent leagues hit well .290ish and a couple dingers, got released decided to marry woman. Now i am an educator in a good high school and coach a very successful baseball team. Now i can say that i didn't commit to academics but i learned A LOT along the way about the process of life and not giving up on a dream, trying new things, being successful and failing, dealing with injury, seeing my career end and a new career begin and with this message i teach my students and players now. So academics or sports first academics was a result of my sport. I teach kids if you get drafted go to the minors and give it a shot becuase you never know what road that might open for you next, and as said before by many people in this post is you can always go back to school. I hope this gives another perspective now i think i will read the other 50% of this post, LOL... Sorry about grammar...not a concern on a message board.
Didn't like school at all the only thing that kept me in HS was i liked football and baseball. HS g.p.a approx 2.6 was good enough in HS to get a small baseball scholarship at a high level d2 program, this was the only reason i went to college, gave baseball my heart and soul in college along with social activities first semester g.p.a 1.8 learned no more baseball if g.p.a didn't come up, met a girl who taught me how to study and be a good student ended up marrying her 6 years later, the ball players taught me what teachers to take and how to drink, LOL..third year in baseball blew my arm out baseball career over I was a pitcher/outfielder, then thought about leaving college but figured had a good girl, good friends and part of school was done with, might as well stay in school. A semester later got bored decided to ask football coach if i can try out, tried out and life took me to the level of college football player, (being a good student was harder with a football schedule then baseball), ended up being a starting linebacker for also a prestigous d2 football program. Graduated from college in 5 years (wife got 2 degrees in that time, LOL). My degree was sports and event management and fluff or no fluff, sports or not i liked it and it was not easy by any stretch, granted some courses such as golf and kickboxing are cake and are based on attendance but others such as business law and the other variations of higher learning classes were not. After graduating my life took another turn as i went to a tryout and signed to play first base for an independent ball club in the northern states. Played for one year of pro ball in independent leagues hit well .290ish and a couple dingers, got released decided to marry woman. Now i am an educator in a good high school and coach a very successful baseball team. Now i can say that i didn't commit to academics but i learned A LOT along the way about the process of life and not giving up on a dream, trying new things, being successful and failing, dealing with injury, seeing my career end and a new career begin and with this message i teach my students and players now. So academics or sports first academics was a result of my sport. I teach kids if you get drafted go to the minors and give it a shot becuase you never know what road that might open for you next, and as said before by many people in this post is you can always go back to school. I hope this gives another perspective now i think i will read the other 50% of this post, LOL... Sorry about grammar...not a concern on a message board.
every situation is different, just like some use the board to prop up their kids accomplishments athletically, some do for academic purposes as well. I think any right minded parent wants their kid to succeed and learn the lessons that hard work and dedication provide. There's no right or wrong. it's a long race to the end and if you don't enjoy the ride, or take pride in whatever you do - what's the payoff?
I'll back fanofgame up on this one. I was able to play tennis at a JC and keep up with my studies. I walked on and made the team at a D1 but wasn't high enough up the ladder to travel. It was still very tough keeping up with engineering. Because I was a transfer student and out of sequence my senior year was tougher than my junior year. Typically in engineering the junior year is the toughest. I didn't make the team as a senior. If I had I might have flunked out. Any degreee program that isn't clearly designed around playing intercollegiate athletics is going to be tough.
There are a few exceptional people at certain schools who can complete an engineering degree in 4 years while playing baseball but they are few and far between and many baseball programs wouldn't even let them attempt it.
There are a few exceptional people at certain schools who can complete an engineering degree in 4 years while playing baseball but they are few and far between and many baseball programs wouldn't even let them attempt it.
This is a great thread. I use myself as an example to my players all the time. When I am talking to them I use stories about my life as examples. Most of the time its "Dont make the same mistakes I made type of stories" and I coach and live my life as another example I want to teach them.
I was one of those guys. That guy that hated school. I was bored to death in school. My parents preached academics. They stressed them all the time. But I could have cared less. I did just enough to stay elgible so I could play baseball and football. If not for those sports in school I would not have made it out of HS. When the time came for recruitment I was offered by several football programs and a couple of baseball programs. None of which I could get into once the grades were checked. In order to continue to play football I went to a JUCO. I had no desire to go to college. NONE. But the only way I was going to be able to continue to play football and make it to the NFL was to go to college. So that is what I did.
Once there a funny thing happened. I realized that if I didnt do enough work to stay elgible I would not be able to continue to play football. So thats what I did. So I ended up getting a 2 year degree and I ended up playing football in college and I got a college experience. I came home had some decisions to make. Go to work or continue my education. I wanted to continue to play football but a season ending knee injury stopped all of that. And without the ability to play football I did not want to go back to school. So I took a job as a police officer.
I got two more degrees while on the force. I put my wife through Carolina working two full time jobs to pay for it. And never looked back. I am convinced if I had never went to college I would have never accomplished what I did. There are many kids who just love the game and dont love school. They are too young to understand the importance of it all. But if they stay in the game long enough they grow up and see the importance of it.
I am a tough guy. I have had to face some tough times. I am way tougher than most people I know. Why? Because most people have never had to do what a college athlete has to do at that age. They have no idea what it takes to battle. Our kids are getting something you can not put a price tag on. They are getting something that will serve them the rest of their lives. When your kids are out of school and looking for work and need a job. Have them call me. I will hire them in a minute. Why? Because if they can do what it takes to do what they are doing they have character , they are tough and they are exactly what I am looking for.
Going to college and working two full time jobs and putting a wife through college is what I did. And it was a piece of cake compared to playing football in college while trying to make the grades needed to stay in school. I admire every young man who plays this game at the college level. You have to love it. Special young men in my opinion.
I was one of those guys. That guy that hated school. I was bored to death in school. My parents preached academics. They stressed them all the time. But I could have cared less. I did just enough to stay elgible so I could play baseball and football. If not for those sports in school I would not have made it out of HS. When the time came for recruitment I was offered by several football programs and a couple of baseball programs. None of which I could get into once the grades were checked. In order to continue to play football I went to a JUCO. I had no desire to go to college. NONE. But the only way I was going to be able to continue to play football and make it to the NFL was to go to college. So that is what I did.
Once there a funny thing happened. I realized that if I didnt do enough work to stay elgible I would not be able to continue to play football. So thats what I did. So I ended up getting a 2 year degree and I ended up playing football in college and I got a college experience. I came home had some decisions to make. Go to work or continue my education. I wanted to continue to play football but a season ending knee injury stopped all of that. And without the ability to play football I did not want to go back to school. So I took a job as a police officer.
I got two more degrees while on the force. I put my wife through Carolina working two full time jobs to pay for it. And never looked back. I am convinced if I had never went to college I would have never accomplished what I did. There are many kids who just love the game and dont love school. They are too young to understand the importance of it all. But if they stay in the game long enough they grow up and see the importance of it.
I am a tough guy. I have had to face some tough times. I am way tougher than most people I know. Why? Because most people have never had to do what a college athlete has to do at that age. They have no idea what it takes to battle. Our kids are getting something you can not put a price tag on. They are getting something that will serve them the rest of their lives. When your kids are out of school and looking for work and need a job. Have them call me. I will hire them in a minute. Why? Because if they can do what it takes to do what they are doing they have character , they are tough and they are exactly what I am looking for.
Going to college and working two full time jobs and putting a wife through college is what I did. And it was a piece of cake compared to playing football in college while trying to make the grades needed to stay in school. I admire every young man who plays this game at the college level. You have to love it. Special young men in my opinion.
If you go to college and play baseball, of course academics come first. Just how many collegiate players are gonna make the major leagues?
Baseball should be a priority if you don't have the brains for college but have a 90+ fast ball with a good shot at getting drafted and making it in pro baseball.
Baseball should be a priority if you don't have the brains for college but have a 90+ fast ball with a good shot at getting drafted and making it in pro baseball.
There is no right or wrong answer to this, it's more of a personal decision for each player as to what is more important.
As far as engineering and baseball, it can be done, but do understand that the commitment to college baseball at some programs is so tremendous, where expectations are extremely high, it's often discouraged, and players are steered in an easier direction as to their degree. If the desire is to become an engineer, chances are even if it takes 5-6 years, you will be one before you are a MLB player.
Nothing wrong with taking subject matter related to sports, mine took sports management with a minor is business. He's a good student, it was not easy, he had to work hard to maintain the GPA that he set his academic goals for.
Giving advice to someone because you wished that it was a dream that you should have followed or that you didn't achieve, is not productive unless you have been in or know someone who has been in that situation. Don't advise players on what you wished you had done, but rather what may be right for each individual.
Having a son who went to college and now in professional ball, for him going to college first probably, IMO, prepared him more for the pro experience and some life experiences than if he had gone straight out of HS. Coach May got it right, trying to play any college sport and going to class to remain eligible may be one the hardest things one will ever have to do in their lives, that turns boys into men for sure. And mine was pretty mature for an 18 year old going off to college. Perhaps if he had gotten an large amount of money to sign out of HS it would have been different, that money affords you extras that the average milb salary can't support. That money also can be put away for later, if things don't work out, so that you have the ability to go to school and not have to worry about who is going to pay the bills while doing so. While there is a scholarship plan that allows you to attend school, it usually for most players will not cover the entire cost of attending, the money that you are given doesn't earn interest and each time you move up a level they take away money in your plan. Since my son was given $$ to finish school in 2007, tuition is up about 8K a year and he's lost money due to advancement. That's tuition only. Luckily, he has some money put aside to finsih a semester quickly. He's been removed from college 4 years now, we've discussed come the day he has to go back and finish and it doesn't exite him much, even with one year or a bit more to go.
If it is true that you can always go back to school why is it that the MLB fund has so much money it's ridiculous, you can't tell me that everyone offered the scholarship plan went onto play MLB?
If a secondary education isn't important, why do so many well paid ML players, earn their degree?
Sorry Swampboy, there are many places where our boys can learn to become men, with or without the game of baseball. You would be seriously stunned to know how many youngsters in pro ball can't cope, that's why you see lots of alcohol and drug abuse. Don't get me wrong it takes a very special individual to go directly from HS to pro ball and one needs a very strong support system from their family to help in the process. Right out of HS doesn't work for everyone. But it also takes a very special person to handle all that you do playing college sports, being successful on the field as well as in the classroom.
JMO.
As far as engineering and baseball, it can be done, but do understand that the commitment to college baseball at some programs is so tremendous, where expectations are extremely high, it's often discouraged, and players are steered in an easier direction as to their degree. If the desire is to become an engineer, chances are even if it takes 5-6 years, you will be one before you are a MLB player.
Nothing wrong with taking subject matter related to sports, mine took sports management with a minor is business. He's a good student, it was not easy, he had to work hard to maintain the GPA that he set his academic goals for.
Giving advice to someone because you wished that it was a dream that you should have followed or that you didn't achieve, is not productive unless you have been in or know someone who has been in that situation. Don't advise players on what you wished you had done, but rather what may be right for each individual.
Having a son who went to college and now in professional ball, for him going to college first probably, IMO, prepared him more for the pro experience and some life experiences than if he had gone straight out of HS. Coach May got it right, trying to play any college sport and going to class to remain eligible may be one the hardest things one will ever have to do in their lives, that turns boys into men for sure. And mine was pretty mature for an 18 year old going off to college. Perhaps if he had gotten an large amount of money to sign out of HS it would have been different, that money affords you extras that the average milb salary can't support. That money also can be put away for later, if things don't work out, so that you have the ability to go to school and not have to worry about who is going to pay the bills while doing so. While there is a scholarship plan that allows you to attend school, it usually for most players will not cover the entire cost of attending, the money that you are given doesn't earn interest and each time you move up a level they take away money in your plan. Since my son was given $$ to finish school in 2007, tuition is up about 8K a year and he's lost money due to advancement. That's tuition only. Luckily, he has some money put aside to finsih a semester quickly. He's been removed from college 4 years now, we've discussed come the day he has to go back and finish and it doesn't exite him much, even with one year or a bit more to go.
If it is true that you can always go back to school why is it that the MLB fund has so much money it's ridiculous, you can't tell me that everyone offered the scholarship plan went onto play MLB?
If a secondary education isn't important, why do so many well paid ML players, earn their degree?
Sorry Swampboy, there are many places where our boys can learn to become men, with or without the game of baseball. You would be seriously stunned to know how many youngsters in pro ball can't cope, that's why you see lots of alcohol and drug abuse. Don't get me wrong it takes a very special individual to go directly from HS to pro ball and one needs a very strong support system from their family to help in the process. Right out of HS doesn't work for everyone. But it also takes a very special person to handle all that you do playing college sports, being successful on the field as well as in the classroom.
JMO.
Mine was one who went pro out of high school it was his dream and he wanted no part of college ...He works very hard at baseball and its given him an education money can't buy.
I don't think he would have been interested in learning if he had gone to college right out of hs. But after maturing and because he can take on line classes during the season he has been working towards a degree.
There is no "right" way, make it your way
I don't think he would have been interested in learning if he had gone to college right out of hs. But after maturing and because he can take on line classes during the season he has been working towards a degree.
There is no "right" way, make it your way
I heard somewhere that only 15% of players take advantage of the MLB tuition plan. That's why they can offer it to players with relatively small bonuses otherwise.
I would be interested to know how many players are majoring in engineering at a school that is at the top of the food chain both academically and baseball wise.. say a Georgia Tech. If a vast majority are majoring in engineering that may answer the question.
quote:there's a guarantee that a degree will lead to a job (ask your waiter this weekend).
Yes my youngest daughter has an honors degree from a University and paid for it by being a waitress . After graduating she continued to be a waitress. She currently makes as much or more money as a college grad and finds it very exciting .
She worked in the theater district in TO and just moved to a new restaurant (same owners)in the Toronto film Festival building. It is a high end restaurant where tips are often over $500 a night. She says the movie guys are lousy tippers though !
Just go to the school websites and check the players' majors. On some sites majors are listed on the roster. On others the info is buried in the media guide, but it's usually there somewhere. Take some of what you find with a grain of salt. A lot of freshmen INTEND to major in engineering, but quickly change to something else.
I looked at the GT site awhile back and as I recall there were maybe 4 kids that were majoring in some form of engineering. The vast majority were in business management, which apparently is the closest thing they have to a jock major at GT. The percentage in engineering at GT is probably higher than any other school. Most places you'll only see 1, maybe 2 kids trying to do it.
My son is in engineering at another ACC school. I can vouch for what CADad said, the junior year is the toughest. He told his mom the other night that even if he wasn't playing baseball he still wouldn't have time to get everything done. Doing both is a heck of a task, no matter what school you're at.
Bottom line is it's doable, but it ain't easy.
I looked at the GT site awhile back and as I recall there were maybe 4 kids that were majoring in some form of engineering. The vast majority were in business management, which apparently is the closest thing they have to a jock major at GT. The percentage in engineering at GT is probably higher than any other school. Most places you'll only see 1, maybe 2 kids trying to do it.
My son is in engineering at another ACC school. I can vouch for what CADad said, the junior year is the toughest. He told his mom the other night that even if he wasn't playing baseball he still wouldn't have time to get everything done. Doing both is a heck of a task, no matter what school you're at.
Bottom line is it's doable, but it ain't easy.
quote:Originally posted by bothsportsdad:
I would be interested to know how many players are majoring in engineering at a school that is at the top of the food chain both academically and baseball wise.. say a Georgia Tech. If a vast majority are majoring in engineering that may answer the question.
What a great debate! Never one to pass up an opportunity to throw more gas on the fire; in my opinion, there is just no way that academics ALWAYS could come first, EVEN when you are going to college. The baseball window just isn't open that long.
My oldest is now at a four year school and a junior majoring in business systems. He is a very good student and will likely graduate at the top of his class in four years. Out of high school, he had three options; "Invited walk-on" at a mid level D1, signing for a small scholarship at a nationally ranked Juco (where we thought he had a good chance to play right away), and going as a "regular" walk on at in-state school.
When we looked at all of it, it was actually a pretty easy decision; we chose the juco because it was near home and he figured that if he was going to play higher level ball right away the juco offered the best opportunity. Does it mean that we neglected academics? Maybe in some ways, but our thinking was that his baseball "window" was open for much less time than his academic window.
It might have been different if he wanted to major in engineering, I will grant that, but he was a smart kid with some baseball ability that wanted to see how far he could take it. It is also very fair to say that most of our college decisions have been baseball decisions. If your son can decide that it is not "one OR the other" but "one AND the other" I don't see a problem.
My oldest is now at a four year school and a junior majoring in business systems. He is a very good student and will likely graduate at the top of his class in four years. Out of high school, he had three options; "Invited walk-on" at a mid level D1, signing for a small scholarship at a nationally ranked Juco (where we thought he had a good chance to play right away), and going as a "regular" walk on at in-state school.
When we looked at all of it, it was actually a pretty easy decision; we chose the juco because it was near home and he figured that if he was going to play higher level ball right away the juco offered the best opportunity. Does it mean that we neglected academics? Maybe in some ways, but our thinking was that his baseball "window" was open for much less time than his academic window.
It might have been different if he wanted to major in engineering, I will grant that, but he was a smart kid with some baseball ability that wanted to see how far he could take it. It is also very fair to say that most of our college decisions have been baseball decisions. If your son can decide that it is not "one OR the other" but "one AND the other" I don't see a problem.