Showball Metrics Questions

I don't remember SB doing exit velo. Most coaches there are looking for pop times under 2.0. They will expect a position player to hit well during the games. Be a team player in the dugout and offer to warm pitchers up when he's not doing anything. If he rakes and has a good pop time he will get noticed by the Ivy schools. The catcher velos ranged quite a bit. Sounded like they cared more about throws being quick and on the bag rather than a wild canon.

FWIW, I don't know many C's that were recruited to HA D3's out of SB, but I do know several who were successfully recruited using an add-on recruiting service guy.

Has your son taken the PSAT or SAT yet? As a rising junior I'd start to get to know what the different HA schools typically look for. Some are a minimum 1500, some have wiggle room and can work with a 1250.

He took the PSAT earlier this year for the first time and had a 1250. He's been studying for the ACT in April and is averaging a 32 composite on that exam (much higher on science/math - those comma questions in English are his weakness).

Gary,

the successful College Coaches are interested in a catchers management of a critical game. Metrics do not determine that skill. Self determination does. Can it  be measured ? Yes it can.

Bob

@Gary D posted:

Hi all,

My son is attending a Showball showcase for the first time this summer (rising Junior at that time) and his primary position is Catcher. I know from experience, all showcases have a different level of people attending and measure things a little differently. First off, how does Showball measure exit velo? Is it a tee measurement, soft toss, other? Beyond that, what would be considered good numbers in Exit Velo, Pop Time, and Catcher Velo for a rising junior at Showball that is interested in schools like Ivys and D3 HA schools that attend an event like this? Or are there other ways as a catcher an event like this for someone to truly stand out?

(for reference, his most recent numbers are 89mph EV - tee measurement, 2.07 pop, 72mph catcher arm velo)

@Gary D my 2025 went last August. SB has a college coach throw BP and they have a HitTrax measure EV + spray chart info (L/C/R, HH%, GB/LD/FB). For his event, here's the C metrics as a reference in an email he got post-event:

Pop Time = 2.17 avg / 2.05 best

C Velo = 68.5 avg (not sure why best wasn't included)

The metrics are public if you want to compare and filter by class/position/etc. to help gauge

Wow, I have to say I would have been obsessing over those metrics if they were available when my son was going through this (hs '19) - good thing that didn't exist then.

A few comments for those who are looking at HA recruiting, but I think still relevant.

- it's not that hard to measure these sorts of metrics before deciding whether to go to one of these showcases.

- HA D3s recruit mainly in the summer after junior year/17U.  They aren't as interested in younger players at these showcases.

- going to Showball/Headfirst in the summer after sophomore year/16U is thus for HA D1 recruiting - Ivies, Patriot, etc.  If you have D1 skills, it could show results.

- EV is what it is; if you hit one out at a showcase, they will notice.

Wow! That SB dashboard is pretty cool.

My son went twice his rising senior summer, the first event of the summer and the last. He got a ton of exposure at the first one and gained interest/offers from schools that weren't on his radar. He ended up going the second time because a few coaches were hoping to see him one more time before they made their offers and it was easier to go there than to a bunch of individual prospect camps. He probably was going to get offers from those schools anyway, but it was a great opportunity to see the coaches again face to face and really get a feel for how much he meant to them for their recruiting class.

@Gary D posted:

Hi all,

My son is attending a Showball showcase for the first time this summer (rising Junior at that time) and his primary position is Catcher. I know from experience, all showcases have a different level of people attending and measure things a little differently. First off, how does Showball measure exit velo? Is it a tee measurement, soft toss, other? Beyond that, what would be considered good numbers in Exit Velo, Pop Time, and Catcher Velo for a rising junior at Showball that is interested in schools like Ivys and D3 HA schools that attend an event like this? Or are there other ways as a catcher an event like this for someone to truly stand out?

(for reference, his most recent numbers are 89mph EV - tee measurement, 2.07 pop, 72mph catcher arm velo)

@Gary D

I'd suggest sitting down with your son to figure out an overall high academic strategy if your target schools are Ivys, Patriot and D3 HAs.  One showcase event can be part of the solution but it is not the whole solution.  As @TerribleBPthrower points out the best place to start is with academics (test scores).  When you have those official numbers in hand, let those schools know you are interested in their program.  When you mix in GPA, rigor and D1 level baseball skills then he's got a shot with these coaches/schools.  Having a high school coach, or travel coach that can champion him or network for him with college coaches is also a bonus.

Back to the showcase...the best way for your son to stand out at an event like this is to demonstrate a D1 skill level and already have some D1 interest...D1 schools that compete with Ivys for talent.  Schools like William & Mary, Richmond, Davidson, Georgetown, etc...  If your son begins to get D1 interest through showcases, tournaments, camps, and high school games then he'll know he's fishing in the right pond, and he can target specific schools with a need on his HA list.

Just my experience.

If the metrics posted on that site are "showcase style" and not from in game.  I need to get my son to one of these this summer. He would make a impact.

@TxballDad posted:

If the metrics posted on that site are "showcase style" and not from in game.  I need to get my son to one of these this summer. He would make a impact.

That's what I was thinking after looking at the dashboards. My son is probably in the "lower D1" range based on metrics as a catcher, but looking at this, he would be one of the top there. If EV is done by coach pitch, he would be putting up something between 95 and 100mph and catcher metrics around 1.95-2.05 pop/73-75mph velo (as a sophomore/rising junior)

@fenwaysouth posted:

@Gary D

I'd suggest sitting down with your son to figure out an overall high academic strategy if your target schools are Ivys, Patriot and D3 HAs.  One showcase event can be part of the solution but it is not the whole solution.  As @TerribleBPthrower points out the best place to start is with academics (test scores).  When you have those official numbers in hand, let those schools know you are interested in their program.  When you mix in GPA, rigor and D1 level baseball skills then he's got a shot with these coaches/schools.  Having a high school coach, or travel coach that can champion him or network for him with college coaches is also a bonus.

Back to the showcase...the best way for your son to stand out at an event like this is to demonstrate a D1 skill level and already have some D1 interest...D1 schools that compete with Ivys for talent.  Schools like William & Mary, Richmond, Davidson, Georgetown, etc...  If your son begins to get D1 interest through showcases, tournaments, camps, and high school games then he'll know he's fishing in the right pond, and he can target specific schools with a need on his HA list.

Just my experience.

He's had some interest from D1 schools, mainly at camps. He has one D1/P5 (HA) school that he's been to several of the camps, the coaches all know him and gravitate right towards him to chat when he shows up. It's hard to tell if that is truly interest, but it was at one of their camps where he hit his first "measured" 100mph EV line drive (right at the hitting coach's face).

Gary D;

At what distance was the BP Coach pitching? Was there a screen? Did your son use a wood bat or personal "metal" bat?

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Gary D;

At what distance was the BP Coach pitching? Was there a screen? Did your son use a wood bat or personal "metal" bat?

Bob

Yes, there was a screen, but apparently he was coming out a little too much when feeding the machine (from about 45 ft away) and almost clipped him. He re-adjusted the screen right after that. My son was using his BBCor Atlas (33/30) at the time.

I love looking at data and rosters and commitments.  So I had a look at that online Showball stats board, and looked up where the top players were committed on PG (keeping in mind that many D3 players don't post commitments on PG, although the Ivies mostly do).

On that Showball list, there are 7 pitchers whose FB was 90+ (that's for all of the 2023 showcases?).  Two were committed to D1s, one to a D2, one D3.  On PG the rest are listed as uncommitted.  The same pattern shows for the EV and the 60-time. 

That leaderboard is on something called "virtual combine", and I'm thinking that maybe you have to pay to have your data displayed there.  Does anyone know?  In that case, you can't assume that those lists include ALL the best performers from 2023, it may just be the ones who opted in/paid.

@anotherparent posted:

I love looking at data and rosters and commitments.  So I had a look at that online Showball stats board, and looked up where the top players were committed on PG (keeping in mind that many D3 players don't post commitments on PG, although the Ivies mostly do).

On that Showball list, there are 7 pitchers whose FB was 90+ (that's for all of the 2023 showcases?).  Two were committed to D1s, one to a D2, one D3.  On PG the rest are listed as uncommitted.  The same pattern shows for the EV and the 60-time.

That leaderboard is on something called "virtual combine", and I'm thinking that maybe you have to pay to have your data displayed there.  Does anyone know?  In that case, you can't assume that those lists include ALL the best performers from 2023, it may just be the ones who opted in/paid.

When I signed my son up there were a few extras you could pay for but it implied that you get all your metrics posted there - no opt in/out was listed.

My son did Showball summer before senior year as a pitcher and received a couple offers (one D1 and one D3) right after walking off the field after live pitching and then received e-mails and texts for about 2 weeks from multiple schools. Most were legit interest and not just camp revenue feeders. My conclusion was most coaches go there ready to recruit, given nearly all the kids are already self-selected as academically able to meet admission needs (why else pay $1300 to go?). He ultimately landed at a D1 that saw him there for the first time and had him come to camp to face more batters. I thought it was a very efficient camp to attend, and there seemed to be an excellent school for just about any of the skill levels shown.

Also, all campers get their metrics in Virtual Combine but they do charge a little extra to see detailed numbers (can’t remember what those were but we didn’t bother).

@Gary D posted:

He's had some interest from D1 schools, mainly at camps. He has one D1/P5 (HA) school that he's been to several of the camps, the coaches all know him and gravitate right towards him to chat when he shows up. It's hard to tell if that is truly interest, but it was at one of their camps where he hit his first "measured" 100mph EV line drive (right at the hitting coach's face).

Yes, I remember having a discussion about that D1/P5 HA school.   What I'm about to suggest may be a tough pill to swallow for your son as it was for my son when he was going through it.   My son was shy, and introverted.  But when it came to baseball and recruiting my wife and I saw another side of him...mature and very assertive with college coaches.

You're saying the D1 P5/HA coaches all know him and gravitate towards him when he shows up.  He's been to a few of their camps and their interest has been casual.  Clearly, they've seen him play many times.  Maybe its time to find out if their interest is more than casual and possibly even serious.

If this school is among his top choices, share that information with the coach, and ask for information in return.   Ask about their timeline, who makes the final recruiting decision, how many catchers are they going to take in the coming years, etc....  If he gets the "canned coachspeak recruiting lecture" then he knows where he stands in their eyes.  If they make their responses personal, and provide specific details & timelines then it could be more than casual interest.  Getting that first serious interest school and possible offer is the hardest part of recruiting in my opinion.   But once that happens, recruiting gets much easier.

Just my experience.  Good luck!

@fenwaysouth posted:

Yes, I remember having a discussion about that D1/P5 HA school.   What I'm about to suggest may be a tough pill to swallow for your son as it was for my son when he was going through it.   My son was shy, and introverted.  But when it came to baseball and recruiting my wife and I saw another side of him...mature and very assertive with college coaches.

You're saying the D1 P5/HA coaches all know him and gravitate towards him when he shows up.  He's been to a few of their camps and their interest has been casual.  Clearly, they've seen him play many times.  Maybe its time to find out if their interest is more than casual and possibly even serious.

If this school is among his top choices, share that information with the coach, and ask for information in return.   Ask about their timeline, who makes the final recruiting decision, how many catchers are they going to take in the coming years, etc....  If he gets the "canned coachspeak recruiting lecture" then he knows where he stands in their eyes.  If they make their responses personal, and provide specific details & timelines then it could be more than casual interest.  Getting that first serious interest school and possible offer is the hardest part of recruiting in my opinion.   But once that happens, recruiting gets much easier.

Just my experience.  Good luck!

He had that conversation with them at the last camp. Their cosch was very specific. He said "you've got the numbers we want to see but what you need to do is take it from showing us 40% of the time that you hit those numbers to 80% of the time". They said just work on being more consistent, keep emailing the updates with how he's working on that, and come see the this summer to show them the difference. It was great feedback that motivated my son.

My question as the Coach  to the player.

Runner on 3rd base, one out, game tied, final inning,  Where would you as the hitter desire the pitch?

Bob

@Consultant posted:

My question as the Coach  to the player.

Runner on 3rd base, one out, game tied, final inning,  Where would you as the hitter desire the pitch?

Bob

Just asked my son to see his thoughts. As a hitter he wanted the pitch up and a little away to elevate it to right field for either a hit or a sac fly to score the runner.

As a catcher, he first joked to "off his body to set up a double play situation" then said he'd focus on pitches that encourage ground balls or weaker contact. Change ups to the handle, curve low and away, nothing near the zone. Worst case is a walk setting up the double play.

Gary;

Good answer. Why not hit a fly ball to CF or LF? The RF arm is normally stronger. Is your son a left handed hitter?

Bob

He said hitting it to RF would give the runner on third a better view of the ball and a quicker reaction time to running on the catch than having to watch left field over his shoulder. It would also lessen the likelihood of the runner on third getting caught in a run down when the LF catches the ball and can have it quickly cut to third if the runner doesn't go far enough.

Gary;

The 3rd base Coach is the indicator to "tag and go". His position should "up the line". The wind and sun maybe a factor. Focus on a "fly ball" to any OF.

Bob

I've seen some of the "3b coaches" that he has had. I'm not surprised why he wouldn't trust them to know the situation and what to do. I guess it gets better at some point? Maybe the 3b coach eventually stops talking with the hot moms on the fence to watch the game?

@Gary D posted:

He had that conversation with them at the last camp. Their cosch was very specific. He said "you've got the numbers we want to see but what you need to do is take it from showing us 40% of the time that you hit those numbers to 80% of the time". They said just work on being more consistent, keep emailing the updates with how he's working on that, and come see the this summer to show them the difference. It was great feedback that motivated my son.

Awesome.   Sounds very promising, and your son knows where he needs to be.  Please keep us updated.