Sixth tool

Rob, I'm sure that pro organizations differ slightly on how they go about assessing makeup, but they all do it once they get serious about a player. Personality tests are a part of the process. Colleges may or may not use these tests. I've never heard of one that did, but that doesn't mean much. Maybe each coach has his own method of determining makeup.
Consultant aka Bob Williams runs camps that address the 6th tool, that term might have originated with him.

Rob,

Publishing reports that the general public can see regarding an opinion on a player's makeup is a recipe for lots of legal action.

Makeup can be the single hardest thing to evaluate in a young player. It is best left up to those colleges or MLB organizations interested in the players ability to do the investigative work involved in drawing there own opinion of that players makeup.

We have run across many prospects that some clubs think has makeup issues while another club thinks that player has championship caliber makeup.

Some might say any report is nothing more than an opinion and that is true. However, there is no way to test for makeup other than tons of follow up. College coaches and especially MLB scouts will do this thoroughly before investing a lot of money in a player. If there are any unfavorable findings or conclusions they don't get published for the world to see. There are many things we might be aware of that don't end up being posted or printed.

Anyway, you sure are correct about the importance of makeup.

I think about this alot. My kid ('09 catcher) has good tools. Good speed, good arm, good bat, but his greatest asset is that 6th tool. One of those that you want up when the game's on the line, or one you want the ball hit to at a critical moment. He knows what to do with the ball before he gets it and plays like a warrior.

I see lots of kids that have cannons for arms and can run a 6.3 60, and when they get a hold of one, can hit it 400 ft. but it rarely, if ever, happens in a game, especially at a critical moment. They'll usually boot the ball, throw it off line, not take the extra base, or swing at one over their head.

With all the showcases that *measure* the tools, I know my kid won't be at the top of the list. But if they watched him over a season, they'd see what he's made of.

How does a college coach really get to see that, if most of their evaluation is based off of showcaes??

Makeup is a slippery term. One of our local kids who was a very, very talented player, had some makeup questions. However, from reports about his personality it was obvious that they were makeup problems relative to his ability to play college ball, not about his ability to play pro ball. IMO, he was one of those that some organizations see as championship caliber, kind of a Lenny Dykstra vs. a Billy Beane. He signed, and did quite well his first season in pro ball.

College coaches that do a great job of recruiting are going to do their homework. When they go to a showcase they are looking for tools that will play at their level. Then they can bore in on the players that have the tools. Make up is not important if the player can not play at your level. The first thing you have to do is ID the players that you believe have the tools to play for you. Once you have identified those players then you check out the 6th tool very closely. Many coaches will inquire about your sons make up. They will ask the coaches you play for. They will ask the coaches you play against. They will rely very heavily on the word they get back from their current players that have played with you and against you. They will observe you very closely when they come to see you play after they have identified you as a player they need to see.

And they will check out the parents as well. No coach is going to sign a player based solely on a performance at a showcase. They will only id the ones they want to go see and check out. Believe me the ones that do it right are going to check your sons makeup out very closely. But the bottom line is make up will not come into the equation unless your son shows the tools they believe will play at their level.

Hopefully, my being a tool hasn't hampered my sons development...although I think my ranking of 6th is a bit low.

Showcases should identify talent. Recruiting and scouting identify value to their organization.

goMO, Surely you didn't mean you see "lots" of kids that can run a 6.3 60. If so, you see much more of them types than we do. I do know what you mean, though, and agree that some of the tools guys don't show it in the games.

Then again, some of them do, there really are tools guys who can also play the game. Somewhere along the way, we keep hearing that if someone has a 90 mph fastball they must lack control or the ability to pitch effectively. If someone runs real fast, they must not know how to run the bases or they don't have good instincts. That if someone can hit long homeruns in BP they can't do it in the games. The truth is there really are guys with tools that also possess the other and some of them even have great makeup. The whole package is what's most attractive to all scouts and college coaches.

So once again, you can see why talent or tools are so important. Recruiters and scouts would be lost trying to go about it all backwards. As vitally important as makeup is, you just can't start with that being the first thing to look for. If you did you might have a list a mile long of wonderful young men who can't play at a high level! First you must find real talent (tools), then you further investigate and evaluate the player for everything else. Then you place a value on what that player is worth to your organization.

Unfortunately, I don't expect any major changes in this area regarding recruiting and scouting, anytime soon. Because of that there will always be some outstanding players slipping through the cracks. However, the good thing is, there is always a place for all these type guys who can really play. These, let's call them performance guys, might have to find the way, often small college, and perform. In the end, some of them end up at the very top, the Major Leagues. They just took a different route to get there.

I re-read my post, and I hope it didn't come off as "sour grapes" or something like that. My kid can play with the big boys, its just that it would show more on the field than on sheet with 60 times, etc.

I agree that the pool is big enough that the 5 tools get you noticed, and then you weed them out based on that 6th tool. That makes perfect sense, as Coach May pointed out. I don't want to infer that most kids with "tools" don't know how to use them. Sorry if it came off that way... I guess the emphasis on the measurement of these tools at showcases worries me that it may skew the real potential of many kids.

One of the colleges recruiting my son said a player's family is one of the aspects of the "total package" they look for. The same school also said it looks for teachability.

Interesting. Do you think it helps or hinders that I am his Legion manager, and have managed/coached him in travel for the last 8 years?

Many players do not show their true value in showcase pure settings---that is why we play the games---I like to see the "dirty" uniforms--

goMO,

I think you coaching him has helped him more than you will ever know.

Also, you hit on another important subject... We always talk about a players makeup. One way to investigate a player’s makeup is to investigate the "parents" makeup. After all, sometimes it's much easier to be around the parents than the players when scouting games or showcases.

I can't tell you how many times a college coach or scout will come up to us and ask where a player's parents are sitting. Or is that so-and-so's dad over there? Or who is that guy yelling over there?

I can't tell you how many times I've heard this from college recruiters. We know the kid can play, but we just aren't interested in him because of the baggage! Often that baggage is DAD!!! You would be surprised how many baseball people subscribe to the following theory... The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From The Tree!

You would also be surprised how many times we hear this... He has great parents. Funny thing... All parents have to do to impress a college coach or pro scout is... NOTHING! Think about it! You have to do something or say something to be labeled as baggage.

Sometimes bloodlines are discussed here. Some think there is way too much emphasis placed on bloodlines and that son's of former Major League players get too many advantages.

Well, if someone believes that, then they should understand how everything about parents can affect their children in another person's eyes.

Please don't take offense to this post. It is not a personal attack on anyone or intended to offend anyone. It is the absolute truth, though!

quote:

One way to investigate a player’s makeup is to investigate the "parents" makeup.

I hope they like quiet. When I'm not coaching I sit quietly and analyze. I rarely cheer for my son. I'll clap along if he does something well.

quote:

Originally posted by goMO:
Interesting. Do you think it helps or hinders that I am his Legion manager, and have managed/coached him in travel for the last 8 years?

How well does he take coaching from others? Can he separate dad from coach? These are the issues I see when coaching the kids. When I merged my travel team with another I volunteered not to be the head coach. I thought my son had problems a couple of times the previous year separating dad from coach. It also took away his sense of security regarding his position, although I've benched him and batted him 9th before. But I think he stepped up his play with me not being the head coach.

Well, it might be a problem if you ask for a job, goMO

I understand your 'sixth tool' concern; had the same one with my son. Watch him at A showcase or A game and he wouldn't stand out; watch him over several games and you'd see the consistency that makes him valuable. The problem is, not many recruiters will be watching a player like that often enough to 'get it'.

Out of high school, my son had some good, but not exciting, offers. The recruiter for the D1 he wanted to attend told him he didn't have the size or tools to catch at the D1 level. The hitting coach at that same school, however, recommended him to a FL JuCo where he signed with the intimation that he should be 'parked' there, playing & filling out, then brought back into the fold.

Ultimately, that's not what happened. The summer after his freshman year, the GSU recruiter watched him play a tournament (oddly enough) in Germany, saw the quality he wanted in a catcher, and made a very nice offer. The truly weird part is that it was the same guy who, while coaching at the first school, told him he wasn't good enough. Both schools involved were mid D1's, so the talent level wasn't the issue.

If your son has a few schools he's interested in, I'd recommend doing what you can to make sure he's seen by them as regularly as possible. At the same time, consider the JuCo route where his range of talents will be touted by a fellow college coach who knows him well for an eventual transfer.

I totally agree with considering how the parents are. There are one or two kids in my town who I won't take on my team no matter how talented they may be. The parents are just out of control. Yelling and cursing from the stands (when little kids are around), cracking inside jokes to the kid when he's on the mound, etc. Giving "advice" to the coaches on how his kid should be playing SS when he's not pitching...


When my kid was younger, I coached him in everything. baseball, basketball, even s****r. He was smart enough to quit s****r early but still plays basketball (he plays varsity for his high school now). However, I stopped coaching him in basketball when he was 12 because I wanted him to be exposed to other coaches, as well as I didn't want alot of parents thinking "his daddy coaches him in everything, no wonder he gets to play shortstop and take all the shots". I wanted him to succeed on his own merits, not because I was his coach. He made varsity baseball and basketball as a sophomore last year, and was named most valuable player on his freshman baseball team (as well as co-captain), and was named most improved player in basketball last year). So although I know he has some talent, the validation from other coaches meant alot to me. I wasn't the only one batting him third!!

he's a tough-nosed catcher and likes to get dirty. In basketball last night, he took a charge from a kid that was about 6'4" and probably 220 lbs. He fell back on the floor, the kid landed squarely on him, and he was in some major pain. refs called time-out. coach took him out, got ice on his back, and within two minutes, was telling the coach to put him back in, even though they were losing by ten with 5 minutes to go. he finished the game, but today, my wife had to take him to the hospital for x-rays (he's ok).

I'm not saying all this to brag about him, but because I know there's other kids out there like him as well who will make a coach proud of them. to me, in the big picture, a 6.3 60 is alot further down the list..

Like I tell my team before every game, "attitude and effort". The rest will fall into place...

goMO

Having gotten to know your family and your son this fall in Jupiter I think I can safely say your son has no problems with the "sixth tool"---we look forward to having him with us this fall

Rob - You have a pm.

TR - counting the days!!!

The tools do get you looked at however I do think the makeup question is a big part in what seals the deal.

As one coach told my son, “We know you have the tools to play at (insert school name) however what we need to know is how you will handle failure. As good as you may think you are, sooner or later you are going to fall flat on your face. How you handle that failure tells us a lot about if you have the makeup we are looking for”.

Ironically, a few weeks later I’m sitting next to the same coach while he was watching my son in a fairly high profile game... sure enough the first batter, the first pitch, the kid took my son yard! As I felt a big lump in my throat, I’m thinking… okay buddy here is your chance to see how he reacts after falling flat on his face… I’m happy to say he kept his composure (he actually smiled) and then proceeded to strike out 5 of the next 6 batters he faced to shut them down. The coach had to know I was dying as this was all going on, then he leaned over with a smile on his face and said, “that is what I was looking for”. I guess he passed the test. He verbally committed that same week!

I think this is an interesting question. It is similar in nature to the question of what does it mean if your son has a very high GPA and SAT/ACT score. It won't hurt obviously but grades and makeup act more as a disqualifier imho and are not sufficient in and of themselves to overcome deficiencies with other tools as others have noted.

If you read the MLB draft reports, often times you will see comments such as "makeup off the charts" and so forth so scouts are aware of it. I think a kid that does possess the sixth tool is going to succeed in the long run however be it in baseball and/or in life. I believe kids who have this tool and are not easily discouraged can in fact develop the other tools in many cases and turn themselves into prospects over time by sheer force of will, hard work, and determination.

While I completely agree the 6th tool is extremely important, I am not sure I agree it is universally accepted. In fact, I am pretty sure it isn't.
If our son isn't able to resume his baseball career, he is very hopeful of pursuing a career in baseball.
One possible option would start him in scouting.
In discussions he had with one organization, they emphasized the need to know those intangibles of the type described as the 6th tool in this thread. During those discussions, he was provided very clear examples of organizations, colleges, and scouts who either don't feel "makeup" is very important or who just didn't do the work needed.
It was pretty fascinating to hear the examples. As with life, there are colleges and scouts who get "blinded" by size, strength, speed and power and fail to realize those all can be exposed when the intangibles get tested and fail.

A lot of MLB teams are starting to take background checks a little bit more seriously especially in regards to athletes off the field activities. The Braves have been burnt lately with a couple of players not having the desire to do the work necessary to become a big league player or floating by on natural talent. Also, a couple that can't follow team rules.

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Can kind of synopsise much of this down to..."The Look".

Nobody can quite define it, but they all know it when they see it.

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This has been a really interesting discussion. It makes a lot of sense to me what PG said, that the 6th tool is evaluated only if there are enough strengths in the other tools to warrant a look.

(Also his statement about getting sued by printing psychological analyses is without question true!)

To me, the 6th tool is the culmination of makeup. That is, everything that comes before results in this play, right now.

I have had many discussions with Bum, Jr. about mental toughness. My message to him is simple. Don't step onto that mound until you know you're going to win. You could have a bad hair day, your girlfriend could have dumped you, maybe a fender-bender on the way to the park, an argument with concessionaire.. it doesn't matter. Once you step onto that mound (or into that box) you are a warrior, and you feel sorry for your opponent. Total concentration.

So that's it. The 6th tool to me is the ability to concentrate, perform and win.

To me guiding my son along the way, confidence was probably the sixth tool I tried to develop in him.
Not co*kyness, not arrogance.
Confidence in his work to this point. Which probably also equates to 'no fear'.
Prepare for your opponent, but do not fear him.
Preparation leads to confidence, confidence eliminates fear. Preparation and confidence lead you to success.

Maybe there are different types of “makeups”. One makeup might be a player’s willingness to make sacrifices --- like hustle and work ethic while another makeup might be a player’s natural ABILITY to compete. Still another is a player’s mental makeup or his ability to cope. No matter what --- I don’t think makeup should be classified as a “tool”. There are five tools! Tools are physical talents and a player’s makeup is not a talent but more of his personality traits. Besides I have seen some very successful players that lacked what we generally call “makeup” perform quite well on the field. You might even say they had poor work ethics and bad attitudes but they can hammer a baseball or throw a 95 mph fastball and many coaches don't care --- there they are ---- playing the game. Maybe their poor “makeup” enhanced their ability to perform. ???? Arrogance (generally considered a bad makeup trait) could be a higher level of confidence than we are accustomed to and confidence is a necessary trait to successfully compete.

I do agree with infielddad’s point. As players move up through the levels (HS, college, pro) the mental makeup of the player becomes much more important. At the pro level baseball becomes their life and the way they live their lives directly affects the way they play baseball. The stress on the player increases as the workload increases. The pressure to produce is at its greatest. COPING becomes a way of life. Stress on the individual increases at each level and their mental makeup becomes more important. We all hope they'll mature as they advance to the next levels.
Fungo

this is a fun discussion!

What I'm seeing is that there are two distinct types of "6th tool" that we are talking about. One is that "head in the game" or "baseball smarts" or "clutch" that helps them be more than just a sum of the parts (5 tools).

The other is more of a "background check" type of thing, making sure they are clean, work hard, have supportive families, etc.

I've seen many with the second type in spades, but still don't have the first type.

And as much as I get Fungo's post, to me, at least, this discussion is focused more on what it takes for a high school kid to get noticed/recruited by colleges, and what that "6th tool" brings to the table.

If a guy can mash or throw quality stuff 90+, most programs aren't going to care too much about a 6th tool (or, potentially, any of the missing 5). Obviously, in MLB nobody cared if some of the guys were able to do those things through chemical enhancement.

But the 6th tool, however defined (coaches, recruiters and scouts all have their own defintions, too), can be the reason one player is chosen over another.

Importantly, parts of that tool can also be contagious. Given that the 6th tool is work ethic, clutch, baseball smarts, dedication, desire ---- that's the guy you want on your team. Could you imagine a team without a guy like that?

When we talk of the 6th tool I always think of ITS son "D" and I think "ITS" will not mind me posting this

When I first met "D" and his folks it was thru his AD who had been my sons AD--- "D" was just a frosh at that point---the AD called me and said you have to meet this kid--he is a clone of your son---I said WOW !!!--he had that feisty streak I like--- rather rein them in than try to spur them on--"D" had intangibles and you could see it right from the get go--- we had a a number of fall seasons together which I will cherish
forever as myself and my staff got to see this young boy grow into a young man before our eyes.
"D" had that spect IT that made him difference than other players--his desire to win and the way he carried himself and led the team was a joy to see

I like to call the 6th tool ATTITUDE, I guess that is my NYC upbringing, but "D" had it in the nth degree---- even better,to this day we, myself and "D" and his family are what I consider very special friends.

The 6th Tool can be very special !!! No matter how you want to define it