Some MLB players-dirty "again"

One way is to punish the offenders with more severe penalty, like what they did to Armstrong in cycling. But then too much money is involved for players, team, and the rest of the food chain.

the game was never and will never be "clean"---there will always be players looking for an edge


'

Sad but true...

So a question that I've heard raised on how to get it "cleaner"... punish the team as well as the player that is caught, i.e. take away wins.

Think about it, Cabrera was very dirty, yet San Fran benefited from his increased performance for the first half of the year. Would they have still been even in a position to make the playoffs had Cabrera been his normal, non-PED'd self ? Yes, his replacement performed adequately in the 2nd half and obviously post-season, but didn't SF benefit in the first half?

I am NOT saying I have the answer, but it is a discussion board

Well, if it helps to stop this huge problem, I will go along with punishing the team as well, including the Giants. Will the union and the club owners agree to that and if so what sort of punishment and sliding scale to adopt? As a fan, I would not like to see Milky back even if the Giants do badly next year. He was eligible to play in later part of the playoff but management made the decision not to include him in the playoff roaster, that gutsy move I applaud.

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So a question that I've heard raised on how to get it "cleaner"

How about 1st offense, banned for one full season and all playoffs/WS.
2nd offense: banned for life.

I second that but I don't think the player union will ever agree to that.

The players union will not even agree to HGH testing during the season, so agreeing to those conditions definetly not going to ever take place.

Again it's sad. I wish they could implement the strict rules like in the Olympics...Marion Jones, Armstrong, cases. At least make them think twice before doing performance enhancement drugs.

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Originally posted by infielddad:


How about 1st offense, banned for one full season and all playoffs/WS.
2nd offense: banned for life.

That would help to get rid of the cheaters and prevent others from risking it.

There is a trickle down effect to the drug use as well. Its not just MLB players that try to get an edge, I assure you. I've seen my fair share of collegiate athletes take interest in items that shouldn't be interesting to them.

I have no knowledge of anything specific so this is just speculation, but I would assume that there will be more drug issues going into the future. I'm sure there is something in existence already that can't be detected through the MLB testing technology.

I posted a question on my Twitter the other day that stated: "Question for all my athlete followers: If you could take steroids without any physical side effects and 100% not get caught...would you?"

The overwhelming majority of responses I received provided me with a resounding "Yes".

Morality is an interesting issue in today's sports world, and is something that is largely taken for granted.

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Morality is an interesting issue in today's sports world, and is something that is largely taken for granted.

JH,
Very insightful.
More and more and more I am of the view that ethics must be required as part of education from grade school until education ends and then part of every business venture/job after.
Ethics and morality can be different, for sure. I am not sure which comes first but I really don't think it makes a difference.
If I had any point to differ, it would be morality or ethics isn't taken for granted, it is the concept that it is okay to compromise these basic values and considerations for some aspect of success, on a field, for a $$$, or some advantage in something, which is personal in nature.

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If I had any point to differ, it would be morality or ethics isn't taken for granted, it is the concept that it is okay to compromise these basic values and considerations for some aspect of success, on a field, for a $$$, or some advantage in something, which is personal in nature.

Or, the concept that it is more ethical and moral to take these risks if it means a better financial situation for your family.

Definitely something to think about. Lots of different perspectives and opinions.

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Originally posted by TPM:
The players union will not even agree to HGH testing during the season, so agreeing to those conditions definetly not going to ever take place.

Maybe Bud should call upon Gov Walker when he becomes available as head of union negotiations?

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More and more and more I am of the view that ethics must be required as part of education from grade school until education ends and then part of every business venture/job after.

The next question is who's ethics? I think their is a very large range of ethics that could be taught and I am not sure I'd agree with it being mandated/taught in school unless I got some vouchers that allow me to send my kids to a school lined up with all my values/ethics.

How about the ethics and morality that was commonly acknowledged and accepted for the better part of 200 years of this once great Republic.

dream on

I like to think it is still a great Republic. In fact, the greatest Republic.

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Originally posted by floridafan:
How about the ethics and morality that was commonly acknowledged and accepted for the better part of 200 years

I agree, with almost anything before the 1960's being taught.

While it is regrettable that some MLB players decide to use I think some of these ideas are like going after a flea with an elephant gun. Let us all remember this,since most or some of us have been watching baseball for close to 5 decades, a lot of the players you admired in the 60's, 70's, 80's and beyond have used something to get an edge. 60's and 70's were filled with greenies, do we remember san diego? People skewer players who are ASSUMED to have used because of innuendo but other cases where the possibility is probable is left unsaid because of the players popularity.Perfect example is Nolen Ryan. Workout partner for years with Tom House. When PED story exploded he said,and I paraphrase"we werent outpitched we were out used". Workout partner for years of Ryans but not a peep about his probable use. But Clemons is demonized. And let us not forget the best PED in use now. Cortizone. If a drug or injection allows someone to perform a task that they NATURALLY cannot do because of injury or other reason it is a Performance Enhancing Drug! No question about that. Going after teams and lifetime bans are in my opinion draconioan and ridiculous. Maybe more testing is the way to go, but a more sane approach, like allowing HGH for recovery of injury, see above cortizone if we are going to allow that at ANYTIME,is a better approach and more balanced discussion on the subject. As a point of info I do not condone the uese of PEDs. I do understand why but that is another topic. So banning players for life is fine if you will retroactivly go back and punish the popular users who people dont want to talk about.

Cortizone(cortisone) is not a PED as defined by MLB, which is the ultimate test.
In addition, the use of cortisone is often disclosed, which can also be permitted by MLB, when a medical condition exists, is certified by an MD and the treatment is part of that process.
None of these players are disclosing the use of synthetic testosterone and none are showing medical prescriptions for medical conditions even if synthetic testosterone had a valid and proven medical use.
Braun beat the system it appears but for reasons other than "other people do it."

agrred But that is not the point.. It is a drug A steroid. Just not an anobolic steroid. It does indeed enhance perfermance there can be no denying that fact. My point is and has always been if we are to have this discussion then everything must be on the table.Disclosure is not the issue here. The use of PEDs by some professional ballplayers is being blamed for the use of such by our youth.A lamentable occurence in and of itself. But, having graduated high school in 1978, and knowing that guys at that time all over were using leads me to believe that this perticular argument is without teeth. It may be the reason for some draconioan measures being called for here but will do little to stem the use by our youth. An honest discussion of this issue with based on solid knowledge is of the utmost importance. Remember this, for years the AMA and various articles in the american medical journal told young adults not to use PEDs that they were harmful while at the same time saying that there was no emperirical evidence that anabolic steroids worked. Come on, if you want kids to listen to you ,you must be straight with them. By telling them that kids were like, huh? we know they work we see it! You cant fight this without knowledge and speaking truthfully. Remember, professionals are playing for there livlihood. I don't agree alot with Charles Barkley but his statement that ballplayers are not role mpdels is true. Just remember we have at least 1 or 2 murderers and tons of alcoholics, rascists and some other shady characters in the hall of fame. Lets approach this with a lot less emotion and alot more correct information to pass on to our kids, because there are a lot of them using or contemplating using. Nuch more then you realize.