I'm not...the point is these camps and showcases need to be seen for what they are, a revenue stream. I also agreed with what bishopleftiesdad said earlier in the post...so apparently you only have a problem with me pointing out that PG is telling my son he's had a great year when in fact they haven't seen him. So being disingenuous and deceitful in their advertising is ok with you...that's fine.
This has been hashed and rehashed. They didn’t work for you, they did work for us. Everyone’s experience is different.
The point of the OP is legitimacy of the invitation. My point is buyer beware.
If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that there are only a couple of open weekends. This fall was pretty typical: two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event). It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.
I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it. Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.) My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments. Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.
I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting. 
Timing, targeting and cost all seem to weigh against them. If XYZ University is recruiting your kid, is nearby and their camp happens to be on a weekend when your son hasn't already committed to play with his travel team--then sure, why not? But mostly the camp invites don't seem like useful recruiting tools to me.
Chico Escuela posted:If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that there are only a couple of open weekends. This fall was pretty typical: two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event). It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.
I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it. Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.) My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments. Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.
I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.
Meant to add (before I posted what admittedly was off-topic from the OP): I think a Twitter DM indicates some level of interest greater than an email. Email addresses get bought and sold in bulk, and camp invites get blast mailed to those lists. I haven't heard of someone doing anything similar with lists of Twitter handles. So yes, I think a DM suggests someone is actually aware of your son. But IMO, it's not enough to go to a camp without some other indications of interest. I'd at least have your son email and maybe send a return DM to try to learn more. You also could ask his coach to contact the school. (But if it's a school your son is interested in, travel and cost aren't an issue, and your son goes into it with the expectation that it's mainly about getting some experience rather than cementing an offer, then if the kid wants to, he should go.)
Chico Escuela posted:
I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.
Coaches recognize that players have pretty crowded schedules, which is one of the reasons that you see so many camps scheduled in the late fall and over the holidays. They also tend to value the attendance of a player who fits their program's profile when it's known that the player is missing one of his team's events in order to be there.
Without getting into semantics over terms like "major," I think the coaches tend to view camps as an important piece of the recruiting equation because they genuinely want to see those players who have done enough due diligence of their own to come to the conclusion that there may be a real fit for them with both the program and the school. In those instances, camps are viewed as a valuable means of giving the players an opportunity to validate their opinion of fit and the coaches a deeper knowledge of the player; both on and off the field. Because of this, it's not unusual to find that a material percentage of a college program's players attended one or more of that school's camps.
Technology has changed and twitter DM's are becoming the new emails because people perceive they are personal and not generated but they can be. New software for coaches has DM's as an option along with snapchat and instagram. The newest is a snapchat from practice with a note inviting them to a camp. No one assumes you can mass generate snapchats but you can through the newer recruiting software.
We only had success with two camps and both were the same. We received information from the RC saying they wanted him on campus to see the campus and the rest of the staff be able to see him. They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate. We went and everything went as planned. They both invited us back the next week for a personal visit to make an offer which one did. The other called the day before the offer visit and apologized because the HC had been fired. Skip forward several months and the new staff invited us for a camp to see him personally and we went, no reduced fee but thought it was just a new staff and not understanding the process. They never spoke a word to him. They were not even watching when he was pitching. He threw one inning with 2 K's and a groundout, 8 pitches. i wanted to go shout at them at least watch when we paid $150. They also let him hit and he hit 2 out. Only one more kid hit a ball to the fence. Never a follow-up. Understand why now. They have not been successful as a coaching staff either.
I think if it is real they will let you know for sure it is real. But I also know that if you are what they are looking for and do a great job MAYBE they will see you.
Prepster posted:Chico Escuela posted:
Coaches recognize that players have pretty crowded schedules, which is one of the reasons that you see so many camps scheduled in the late fall and over the holidays.
Maybe it's just the luck of the draw, but of ~5 schools where it might make sense for my son to attend a camp, all are scheduled for October or the first weekend in November. (The first weekend in Nov. is when Showball and Headfirst have their Florida sessions, so going to camp then would mean missing the chance to play in front of many other schools.) It's very possible I'm just approaching this the wrong way, or maybe my son just hasn't progressed far enough in the process yet...
Chico Escuela posted:Prepster posted:Chico Escuela posted:
Coaches recognize that players have pretty crowded schedules, which is one of the reasons that you see so many camps scheduled in the late fall and over the holidays.
Maybe it's just the luck of the draw, but of ~5 schools where it might make sense for my son to attend a camp, all are scheduled for October or the first weekend in November. (The first weekend in Nov. is when Showball and Headfirst have their Florida sessions, so going to camp then would mean missing the chance to play in front of many other schools.) It's very possible I'm just approaching this the wrong way, or maybe my son just hasn't progressed far enough in the process yet...
Each persons path is different. Not everybody Goes to Showball or Headfirst. It all depends on your goals. As always on these things your mileage may very.
Chico Escuela posted:If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that there are only a couple of open weekends. This fall was pretty typical: two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event). It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.
I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it. Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.) My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments. Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.
I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.
Hey Chico, just checking your logic on this, particularly the bolded...
Sounds like your son is with a good travel team that is getting him to events where he is getting notice. That's awesome. But, isn't that one of, if not the primary purpose of travel ball when a player is recruiting age? ...to get seen and recruited?
Admittedly, the "camp" world covers the full range of purpose and effectiveness, mostly being as is so often stated here - a fundraiser for school and assistants. But, often, they are used as a follow up, confirmation step, school tour/interview or offer opportunity when there is mutual interest. I don't understand why you would be concerned about missing more than one travel weekend a season for a camp where he is being actively recruited. That should be the goal for both the player and the travel org., right?
Of course, there should be reasonable commitment and good communication to the travel org but remember the purpose. They should be excited for you when those opportunities come up, IMO, and properly prepared to fill the void for those players getting those desired opportunities.
PWE, coaches seem to be using some pretty low tactics these days. I had my son respond to some of the camp invites the other day. Most were generic invites but some were listed as "we have identified you as a top prospect". One invite was a lot different than the rest and the next day there was an invite to their Fall game (but also threw in another camp invite) and requested videos, schedule and included his cell. He responded to 16 schools stating that he plays football in the Fall and included a brief bio and a link to his youtube video. 3 people watched it. One school reached out and asked if he could come the following month. They aren't interested in him, they just want us to drive 7 hours so the VC can get his $150.
On the flip side he sent out video and bio to some schools a few months ago. A PC emailed him back within an hour with a breakdown of his pitching and said they wanted to see him on campus. The RC followed up a few hours later. If that is a tactic to get us to spend $100 for a camp, then job well done.
Why would you assume they aren’t interested or it’s a tactic?
cabbagedad posted:Chico Escuela posted:If your son plays summer and fall travel ball (like my kid), then I assume that there are only a couple of open weekends. This fall was pretty typical: two weekends with no tournament scheduled in September and October (reduced to one weekend after a rainout and a make-up event). It turned out there were no camps of interest on that one weekend.
I don't think son's coach would get bent out of shape if he skipped a typical weekend tournament to go to a camp at a school that was actively recruiting him, but I don't think son would want to do that more than once in a season. (I'm not aware of other players on the team doing it. Could be I just didn't know why they were gone on a particular weekend.) My son has gotten some notice from college coaches who saw him at tournaments. Otherwise his in-person contacts were at Headfirst--after the summer season had ended--and he may do a similar multi-school showcase after the fall season ends.
I've been involved in a few threads here on camps... but I still feel like I'm missing something, because I don't really get how camps could be a major element of recruiting.
Hey Chico, just checking your logic on this, particularly the bolded...
Sounds like your son is with a good travel team that is getting him to events where he is getting notice. That's awesome. But, isn't that one of, if not the primary purpose of travel ball when a player is recruiting age? ...to get seen and recruited?
Admittedly, the "camp" world covers the full range of purpose and effectiveness, mostly being as is so often stated here - a fundraiser for school and assistants. But, often, they are used as a follow up, confirmation step, school tour/interview or offer opportunity when there is mutual interest. I don't understand why you would be concerned about missing more than one travel weekend a season for a camp where he is being actively recruited. That should be the goal for both the player and the travel org., right?
I think we are on the same page. My son's travel club does well (and fairly) by its players from what I have seen. If it made sense for my son to miss a couple of weekends to go to camps, I don't think his coaches would have a problem with that. But I do think it's reasonable to expect a player who commits to a team to try to attend most of its games, which is a big reason why most camp invites are non-starters for my kid. Teams and players ought to be able to figure out reasonable paths for particular situations, especially given how much variability and uncertainty there is in the college recruiting process.
baseballhs posted:Why would you assume they aren’t interested or it’s a tactic?
The 2nd part I don't think is a tactic. All of them in the top group are, imo.
d-mac posted:PWE, coaches seem to be using some pretty low tactics these days. I had my son respond to some of the camp invites the other day. Most were generic invites but some were listed as "we have identified you as a top prospect". One invite was a lot different than the rest and the next day there was an invite to their Fall game (but also threw in another camp invite) and requested videos, schedule and included his cell. He responded to 16 schools stating that he plays football in the Fall and included a brief bio and a link to his youtube video. 3 people watched it. One school reached out and asked if he could come the following month. They aren't interested in him, they just want us to drive 7 hours so the VC can get his $150.
On the flip side he sent out video and bio to some schools a few months ago. A PC emailed him back within an hour with a breakdown of his pitching and said they wanted to see him on campus. The RC followed up a few hours later. If that is a tactic to get us to spend $100 for a camp, then job well done.
What do you consider low tactics? I had to remind myself that recruiting is a two-way street. As a parent and player, I'm doing everything I can to help my son be seen. As a coach, they are doing everything they can to see the right players, plus make money for AC/VC. It takes 100 emails to get the right response for us and it takes 1,000 emails for them to get the right player. Understand there are players that should know they are not D1 or P5 players that dish out the money for every camp these schools offer. Having been to several with my sons, it is tough to watch at times. You just want to go down on the field and help the coaching staff by saying to about 90% of the players there that they will never be considered by X school and most will never play college ball. My middle son is a JUCO coach for softball and does camps to help support his program and other coaches he brings in. There is usually only about 5 players out of 100 that can help his program or any program but he has to do the camps/showcases to find the 5.
PitchingFan posted:d-mac posted:PWE, coaches seem to be using some pretty low tactics these days. I had my son respond to some of the camp invites the other day. Most were generic invites but some were listed as "we have identified you as a top prospect". One invite was a lot different than the rest and the next day there was an invite to their Fall game (but also threw in another camp invite) and requested videos, schedule and included his cell. He responded to 16 schools stating that he plays football in the Fall and included a brief bio and a link to his youtube video. 3 people watched it. One school reached out and asked if he could come the following month. They aren't interested in him, they just want us to drive 7 hours so the VC can get his $150.
On the flip side he sent out video and bio to some schools a few months ago. A PC emailed him back within an hour with a breakdown of his pitching and said they wanted to see him on campus. The RC followed up a few hours later. If that is a tactic to get us to spend $100 for a camp, then job well done.
What do you consider low tactics? I had to remind myself that recruiting is a two-way street. As a parent and player, I'm doing everything I can to help my son be seen. As a coach, they are doing everything they can to see the right players, plus make money for AC/VC. It takes 100 emails to get the right response for us and it takes 1,000 emails for them to get the right player. Understand there are players that should know they are not D1 or P5 players that dish out the money for every camp these schools offer. Having been to several with my sons, it is tough to watch at times. You just want to go down on the field and help the coaching staff by saying to about 90% of the players there that they will never be considered by X school and most will never play college ball. My middle son is a JUCO coach for softball and does camps to help support his program and other coaches he brings in. There is usually only about 5 players out of 100 that can help his program or any program but he has to do the camps/showcases to find the 5.
I think anytime a coach says "We've identified you as a top prospect", "your name was recommended to me", or "we recently saw you play at PG Event XYZ" (even though you were on a roster but didn't attend). I think all of those are low tactics. It seems to be happening more and more. Don't make a kid/family feel like they are being recruited so that your VC can make an extra $100. We have this board to sort through and educate ourselves. A lot of people don't and they just go to the camp and spend their time and money for nothing.
We've been to numerous camps. Most of them have been good and I didn't regret the money or time we spent. Except for a Big 12 school whose coaches didn't even show up. They had a HS coach and the operations guy run the camp with some current players.
PitchingFan posted:They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.
Unless we're talking about pro-rating a camp fee because the camper couldn't attend the entire session, a reduced camp fee for a recruited player is a clear violation of NCAA regulations. Any coach who takes the annual compliance exam as required by the NCAA ought to know better than to offer that.
Prepster posted:PitchingFan posted:They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.
Unless we're talking about pro-rating a camp fee because the camper couldn't attend the entire session, a reduced camp fee for a recruited player is a clear violation of NCAA regulations. Any coach who takes the annual compliance exam as required by the NCAA ought to know better than to offer that.
It is a violation, but it happens all the time.
One was officially run as PBR Camp and the other he went as a PO for one day of 2 day camp so that is probably why both were legal.
I will agree with the last statement of we say you play at XYZ when they did not is wrong but saying we see you as a prospect or we would love to see you play is not in my opinion. I understand the frustration but I also realize it is their job and my job is to vet the camps. When I go without vetting it, then I have wasted my money not them taking it.
I get amused when I still get invites to top prospect camps when he has already committed. I saw one coach that had recruited my son the other day that I have known for years. He (their automated system) sent me an email inviting my son to a fall prospect camp. I asked him if he was still recruiting my son and he said no he is already committed, unless something had happened. I answered no and asked why he sent me an email. He said it is automated and just uses his email to send since he is RC.
d-mac posted:Prepster posted:PitchingFan posted:They both gave us reduced rates for the camps and a code to signup with that reduced rate.
Unless we're talking about pro-rating a camp fee because the camper couldn't attend the entire session, a reduced camp fee for a recruited player is a clear violation of NCAA regulations. Any coach who takes the annual compliance exam as required by the NCAA ought to know better than to offer that.
It is a violation, but it happens all the time.
It actually doesn't; not among DI programs, at least.
As PitchingFan's clarification illustrates, it happens quite a bit at the many camps run by privately-run organizations; many of which employ college assistants as instructors and have the feel of college camps. ...and, as his other example verifies, they can be and routinely are reduced when campers' schedules prevent them from attending the entire camp.