Started a weighted ball program

I wonder what program that is?

This is a great thread and thanks to Kyle for sharing his experience. 

 

While I don't know the exact sequence of my son's program, I am sure it more or less mirrors Kyle's since I see kids throwing their sand balls all season long. I do know that the focus on "in season" is on recovery with the high intensity part being the in game pitching. I also know that relievers throw on different schedules vs starters due to the nature of in game pitching for relievers. The recovery part is as important as the velocity sequencing, which I think many people miss, thinking that just going out throwing heavy and light balls is all you need to do.

 

I know that many of the pitchers take their programs with them during the summer, while some are out in summer league they won't be doing the full off season work and others do the full program sequence during the summer, typically after a break, depending on their work load during the season. All of the pitchers will be doing the program in the fall, some start later than others depending on what their summer work load was. 

 

One of the reasons I am not all that high on summer baseball for all college players is that it may be more beneficial for some to use the summer to focus on strength and conditioning and a weighted ball program as they will certainly gain more in velocity and stamina doing this than pitching in the summer leagues, but this is a bit off subject.

 

My son did a full sequence of his program over the summer, once he was done with his internship he more or less had a month off coming home, travelling to and from school, etc. As soon as he got back to college he was immediately into the program, and it shifts to more baseball throwing up until they start full fall practices and scrimmages but they are still doing their weighted ball work. After fall practice he will get back into it up until they show up for school in January and then they will start to focus back on baseball throwing more and more as the season approaches. All the while there is still some weighted ball work. 

 

My point in this is that their program is totally integrated into all of their baseball activities, and as a consequence they consistently have the hardest throwers in D3 ball, in my son's case he went from a mid to high 80's pitcher and now sits 90-92. There were 6 kids throwing in the 90's last year, one up to 97, which is totally unheard of in D3 ball. 

 

First for HS kids I would not be doing this until Jr/Sr years and or until they are physically mature and have already started a serious strength and conditioning program and have good pitching instruction. I could see them doing a similar sequence, during the summer and into the fall, depending on pitching load in the summer. Now (fall) is the time to be working hard on S&C as well as a weighted ball program, this should continue up until Christmas and then start to introduce more baseball throwing switching into more baseball specific in January for Feb season start. For kids in Northern climates  the beauty of the weighted sand balls is that they can be throwing all winter indoors and be fully ready once the season starts in March. 

 

Great information, i would love to see my son add 3-5 mph on top velo and 2-4 on sittting velo with weighted balls but they scare me. Lots of great data here and we also have a local guy , Gene Ross who i hear is very good with a weighted ball program...i just can't seem to get my head around it. I wish you the best, post results and feedback from your son on how he feels after the program.

 

 

The presentation was specific to Ron's bootcamp, so I wouldn't feel comfortable freely distributing information that others paid for, and that I was paid to keep private to them. Sorry.

What would you usually do with your pitchers on "recovery" or "hybrid" days?

We do a lot of force acceptance work on both days (really all days, but that's another post) like rebounders with PlyoCare balls, shoulder tube / total bar work, band work, and manual therapy. Also postural restoration exercises like waiter walks and unilateral exercises to help balance out the  asymmetric demands of pitching.

 

Lots of metabolic work on those days too. C2 rower, Prowler push, sprints, circuit/complex training, etc.

 

We'll also do a lot of heavy overload throws (1+ lb) at 30-45% intensity to drill proper movement patterns in without a major training stimulus. Working on technique/mechanics while sore and with overload implements has been really useful for us.

 

We use the Marc Pro for electrical stim. Expensive at $700 a pop, but we have three because we believe in them pretty heavily. More than half of the MLB teams use them for post-throwing recovery, and one team uses them in-between a starter's innings to keep his arm fresh. It's been a huge modality for us.

In your weighted baseball program you suggest 3 days a week for long tossing then performing the weighted baseball throws. Would you consider weighted baseball days "velocity" days? In the program we are beginning to create it becomes hard to combine weight lifting and throwing in the offseason. Any suggestions as to how to go about scheduling upper body, lower body, plyometrics and throwing all into a program?

I would consider them "velocity" days. The free eBook is supposed to be a fairly high-level overview of weighted baseball training with a sample 11-week program for coaches and players to use or adapt to their own needs, independent of other variables. As such, your question is a little too complex to get into on a generic basis, I'm afraid. It's not easy, that's for sure. My upcoming book focuses on that as well as the past eight years of research done in the Driveline Sports Science Lab on recovery rates, velocity/strength/fitness gains, and injury prevention/rehabilitation.

 

Suffice to say it's a topic worth 50-70 pages of text alone.

Excited to see whats to come. Might have to get my hands on a copy in the future

This is a very informative thread - much appreciated all!

 

BOF What D3 school is this?

All I know is that if BOF's kid plays at a nationally-dominant D3 around the corner from me in the PacNW and he never told me, I'll be mildly upset.

 

Some of the D3's are that good, including Linfield and at one time, George Fox (who were dominant when Pat Bailey was there, now at Oregon State). Marietta is always good, and two schools from my hometown are in the T20 now - Case Western and Baldwin-Wallace. MIT even won their conference!

 

Nope Kyle, but we have lost to Linfield two years in a row in the Regionals and they are hoping to change that this year. First things first - have to get there. Hoping the Regionals are somewhere else other than Linfield this year, but the wine is good and the Alien Parade in McMinnville is a hoot, George Fox probably would have been a Regional team last year, except they play in the same conference as Linfield. 

  Kyle, how'd you figure it out?,,,lol    Was gong to wait until the end of the program to share...guess the cat's out now!  So far so good. It's early, but no reportable issues

 

 

Kyle:

 

Sorry, but a bit confused, as is often the case when it comes to pitching. You said weighted ball days are considered velocity days.  Your own weighted ball program calls for throwing every other day, which equates to 3 or 4 velocity days a week.  Yet this schedule you posted

 

Velocity (high intensity, high output, low volume)

Recovery (low intensity, low output, high volume)

Hybrid (medium intensity, medium output, medium volume

Velocity

Off

Hybrid

Recovery

 

only shows two velocity days per week.  I'm sure I missed or am misinterpreting something.  Can you set me straight, please?  My son is 4 weeks into your weighted ball program and I want ensure I understand this.

You are correct. The weighted baseball book was designed to be a simple training guide with 3 high-intensity throwing workouts per week and nothing else. We still use this shell for our beginning athletes who are on-ramping, but our more intermediate/advanced athletes who have more training time under them use the cycle above, or some variation of it. Versions of that program will be available in my (non-free) book and video set coming out this winter.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Would there be any way to combine your throwing intensive 11 week program with a weight lifting program as well? Or would you recommend the weighted baseball program be done on its own?

Likely, but you'd almost certainly need to cut out some of the volume. Now we're getting into murky territory and you can see why I left it as simple as possible. What defines "weightlifting" for you? Maybe it's a Starting Strength powerlifting type routine. Or maybe it prioritizes quick lifts like the power clean. Or maybe it's a bodybuilding 4-day split, or maybe it's heavy on cardio, or maybe....

 

You see where I'm going with this. I can't cover all possibilities in a free book

For what it's worth, we are incorporating weight training during our weighted ball program.  I have my son weight train before school, then on the weighted ball program on the appropriate days

Did a fun video of today's workout, you may enjoy the 103 MPH baseball throw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlC8VViTEk

That's Bananas.

       
       

Thanks for posting that. I was just talking with my 13 year old about intent to throw hard when I opened this thread. Thanks to that video he got to see what intent to throw hard really looks like haha.

I used to fear clients sailing baseballs just over the catch net. Now it's part of business. Happens at least once a week, often at 95+ MPH.

As an update, looks like Kyle's book is pretty much done, and he has announced a giveaway:
http://www.drivelinebaseball.c...giveaway/?lucky=1060

I have his previous book and found the drills very helpful in developing efficient arm paths without doing much in the way of instruction or tinkering, the arm and body seem to clean up movements while using overload implements (specifically).

A great article on why weighted ball programs work:

http://www.drivelinebaseball.c...r-overload-training/

My 2017 catcher is 3 weeks into a 4-day a week, 10-week weighted ball program. Doing great.

BTW, the land speed record is no longer 103. It's now 105.8.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-a0CKlF8sQ

Question about the long term gains of a weighted ball program. is it comparable to swinging a heavy weighted bat, as in on deck or during cage work, where you increase bat speed. My question is: isn't that a temporary gain and not sustained over a long period. What makes a weighted ball program give lasting perminant velocity gains. Thanks.

PA2016, I think that's exactly what the article I posted from Kyle's site discusses, ie, mapping new movement patterns using a weighted ball program.  It's not like a swinging a heavy bat in the on-deck circle because the idea is that you use them regularly, with specific training, to "remap" movement patterns and get your arm to move more efficiently.

 

From the article: "weighted balls continually appear to show this “re-mapping” effect where they create more biomechanically efficient movement patterns (increased efficiency of force transfer)."

That makes sense that if the program is used continually throughout a players career. It not just a one time thing. Also that it should be done after a kid remove biometric ally incorrect movement bc that could actually have long term negative effect as they are at max effort during some reps. Thanks for your response. The big problem I see is not everyone can tech correct movements and kids should cautious. I wouldn't want our HS coach doing this, needs to be someone with the qualifications of Boddy or the like.

Update:   So  Righthook just wrapped up the program.  I have seen a 4-7 mph increase.  He also hit the weights pretty hard and went through a small growth spurt.  Is it any one thing, probably not.  Was the velocity gain directly and strictly a result of the weighted ball program, probably not, but I do believe it was a major contributor.  So, now we will tailor it for in season and see if he maintains.  But, I like it, son liked it and will give it a big thumbs up. A big thanks to Kyle for putting the program information out there for free.

I put three studentsincluding my son through an eight week weighted ball program in September and October. They did no other weight trining, etc. There were no noticeable physical growth spurts during this period. My son saw velocity increases of 3-4 mph. The other two students saw increases between 7-10 mph. There were significant mechanical changes made with the other two students, but my son's mechancis were basically left alone. I feel comfortable attributing all of my son's gains to the program and a good prtion of the gains of the others as well. i also relied heavily on Kyle's work in formulating my own program. 

Thanks for sharing your personal experience guys.

Question- Did you guys invest in a radar gun for the purpose of the program?

I already had one. A Bushnell Speedster III. Very affordable. It's reliable as long as your pretty close to either the pitcher or catcher. I've put it up against Jugs and Stalkers and gotten the same results. The big difference is that it doesn't have the range to sit behind the plate at a live game and be very useful. Also, keep in mind that the older Speedster II and original Bushnell aren't as consistently accurate.

The other gun I would highly recommend (if you don't have a Jugs or Stalker) is the Pocket Radar "ball coach" model.  The original pocket radar wasn't great for pitching, but the new model is excellent.

I had access to one from work and I made sure I used the same gun

That's the key, really.

Happy to hear you guys had success! Remember, we have a new weighted ball eBook on our site that's still free. Incorporates our new products as well as long toss and J-Bands.